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Does it matter?

Too much bitching and whining going on, on here and on Facebook and Twitter.

There are people complaining that people never walked out and people moaning about those that did, people complaining that people are or are not going at all. Some are wittering on about people buying food and merchandise, old men and people with children were getting jeered for leaving at full time and/or not protesting. Some people are complaining about the beach balls, loads are whinging about the whistles. There's a lot of arguments over who walked out and who didn't and who let who down. Even people debating over whether or not the protests helped the team.

Does any of that really matter in the whole scheme of things?

The whole point of all of this is to show RD and KM that as supporters we are a united front and the vast majority want them gone. By arguing with and questioning each other on their whereabouts, what people did and didn't do we are failing on the whole "united front" aspect. Which is a real shame because the protest campaigns are going so well and we have generated so much positive feedback.

The fundraising and efforts from CARD has been amazing and we don't want to and shouldn't squabble amongst ourselves over the differences of opinions because it will undermine their efforts. Some people chose not to protest and they have their reasons, this doesn't mean they are sympathisers, it could be health related, job related or any other number of reasons that keeps them away and none of us has the right to tell others what to do.

Yes there was a planned 74 minute walkout and when Charlton went up and supporters found themselves in a rare position of possibly seeing Charlton win at home if they stay, of course they would be reluctant to leave, also we have watched many games this season where the players simply didn't show up, we finally have a game where despite off pitch distractions they played well and tried hard, naturally some people didn't want to walk out on THEM. I get that the walk out was about things much more serious and long term than the team and that game and respect completely those that still took part but we've got to see both sides here. The same applies for the post match protest and the lack of a pitch invasion. Bottom line is loads walked out so a point was still made, hundreds protested, ditto and so on. Only 20 fans went to Belguim but they still made an impact and earned respect and admiration for doing so, no one is slating people for not going, quality over quantity.

We are doing very well With demonstrations, they are well planned and well documented and all those involved deserve a huge amount of appreciation, let's not ruin their hard work by arguing amongst ourselves, let everyone protest in their own way (or not protest) and just make the overall quality of the protests more important than the quantity, katrien is the one that likes to throw around unrealistic numbers we shouldn't play into her hands by turning on each other. All we can do is get the word out about planned action and its up to the individuals who hear whether or not they want to take part.

The whole idea of "sympathisers" is ridiculous beyond words, no fan wants Charlton destroyed, no one wants us to carry on being a club with no ambition and a farm and catwalk for young players with no interest in the competition side of things. It takes away the whole sport aspect and that's before we even get onto the very heart and soul and feeling being ripped from our club. There are no sympathisers only some people that want to ride it out rather than fight it. That is fine, it's the way it goes everywhere there's always some that don't want to or can't for a number of reasons get too involved it doesn't mean they don't care, it's wrong to assume otherwise.

With the whole sorry state our club is in at the moment and the efforts so many are going to to fight the regime I don't think the fact that some people would rather not get involved really matters, at least not enough to cause so much aggregation, arguments and abuse. Fight the regime, not each other!
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    Yes it does matter actually. If people don't want to join in with the protests then that is their choice, but it is a fact that the more people joining in means the bigger the impact.
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    cafctom said:

    Yes it does matter actually. If people don't want to join in with the protests then that is their choice, but it is a fact that the more people joining in means the bigger the impact.

    What I think Sadie is saying is does it matter what people choose to do... A lot of arguments have been caused because some of us walked out, some of us didnt... When at the end of the day we should stop arguing and just let people do what they decide.
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    cafctom said:

    Yes it does matter actually. If people don't want to join in with the protests then that is their choice, but it is a fact that the more people joining in means the bigger the impact.

    What I think Sadie is saying is does it matter what people choose to do... A lot of arguments have been caused because some of us walked out, some of us didnt... When at the end of the day we should stop arguing and just let people do what they decide.
    Exactly, by arguing amongst ourselves, knowing that the evil ones read these forums we are in a way undoing hard work. We need to concentrate more on the matters at hand and the real enemies and stop worrying about and fighting with those that choose not to get involved.
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    edited March 2016
    Does anybody know where I can get a large pair of jogging bottoms?
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    edited March 2016

    Does anybody know where I can get a large pair of jogging bottoms?

    Sorry Sadie I couldn't resist that one (:

    Make you right though with the op. However, there are a fair share of sympathisers unfortunately. Each to their own i guess.
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    cafctom said:

    Yes it does matter actually. If people don't want to join in with the protests then that is their choice, but it is a fact that the more people joining in means the bigger the impact.

    What I think Sadie is saying is does it matter what people choose to do... A lot of arguments have been caused because some of us walked out, some of us didnt... When at the end of the day we should stop arguing and just let people do what they decide.
    Exactly, by arguing amongst ourselves, knowing that the evil ones read these forums we are in a way undoing hard work. We need to concentrate more on the matters at hand and the real enemies and stop worrying about and fighting with those that choose

    The Judean People's Front. Splitters
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    edited March 2016

    To lay it out there for all to see... Over the last 24-hours I've constantly argued the fact that I'm neither for the protesters whilst being neither in support of the board and happily want them gone just as much as the next person.

    I'll always stand up to the chant of getting the owners out and yesterday was singing the anti-board chants with as much gusto as anyone else but thats where I'll stop, I'll continue to buy a season ticket simply to support the team.

    I could be completely wrong here but to those who refuse to buy a season ticket, yes it'll hit the owners hard with them losing maybe around £2m - £5m in pre-season sales yet in the words of the Bayern Munich owners (I know they're slightly bigger than us), whats that sort of money to a multi-millionaire to Roland Duchatalet I imagine the club would set season tickets lower if we werent competing with the rest of the Division in terms of FFP which has all but fallen.

    So it comes down to his broken shoe which has been repaired with tape... Yes that money will hit Roland hard but he doesnt care, he wont splash to cash to repair what is broken and will just use a bit of tape to repair the damage.

    Ultimately those that boycott the games will be those who make the most fuss and noise during the matches, it could all be ifs and buts yet having the peace and quiet of them not being inside the Valley could make the job harder for him to sell.

    As I've said, they're my views...

    Dont try to change my mind, I've decided what I'm going to do and if people dont like it then tough, I've always been my own man and if you try to get me to change my mind I'll just dig my heels in more, like many others are probably doing.

    Would you consider a pitch invasion? Not sure if ones been mentioned before? If so don't wear your heels (:

    Top post btw mate.
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    The thing is, it's not hard for him to sell. There's an offer already on the table, so boycotting, not buying season tickets, etc. currently makes zero difference to our saleability, but does hit the current owners pockets. It's flawed logic to say "I'm going to keep putting money in Roland's pocket because it makes our club more attractive to potential buyers". We have a buyer, Roland won't sell. If we hit his pockets hard enough it might change his mind.
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  • Options

    To lay it out there for all to see... Over the last 24-hours I've constantly argued the fact that I'm neither for the protesters whilst being neither in support of the board and happily want them gone just as much as the next person.

    I'll always stand up to the chant of getting the owners out and yesterday was singing the anti-board chants with as much gusto as anyone else but thats where I'll stop, I'll continue to buy a season ticket simply to support the team.

    I could be completely wrong here but to those who refuse to buy a season ticket, yes it'll hit the owners hard with them losing maybe around £2m - £5m in pre-season sales yet in the words of the Bayern Munich owners (I know they're slightly bigger than us), whats that sort of money to a multi-millionaire to Roland Duchatalet I imagine the club would set season tickets lower if we werent competing with the rest of the Division in terms of FFP which has all but fallen.

    So it comes down to his broken shoe which has been repaired with tape... Yes that money will hit Roland hard but he doesnt care, he wont splash to cash to repair what is broken and will just use a bit of tape to repair the damage.

    Ultimately those that boycott the games will be those who make the most fuss and noise during the matches, it could all be ifs and buts yet having the peace and quiet of them not being inside the Valley could make the job harder for him to sell.

    As I've said, they're my views...

    Dont try to change my mind, I've decided what I'm going to do and if people dont like it then tough, I've always been my own man and if you try to get me to change my mind I'll just dig my heels in more, like many others are probably doing.

    Would you consider a pitch invasion? Not sure if ones been mentioned before? If so don't wear your heels (:

    Top post btw mate.
    Thats a damned good idea by the way ;)

    I'm just tired of hearing the arguments that your either in one camp or your in the other... How can I be in one of them when I refuse to walk out (Cant be for the protest) but then call for the Belgians to get out of the club (Funny way for me to be for the board)
  • Options

    To lay it out there for all to see... Over the last 24-hours I've constantly argued the fact that I'm neither for the protesters whilst being neither in support of the board and happily want them gone just as much as the next person.

    I'll always stand up to the chant of getting the owners out and yesterday was singing the anti-board chants with as much gusto as anyone else but thats where I'll stop, I'll continue to buy a season ticket simply to support the team.

    I could be completely wrong here but to those who refuse to buy a season ticket, yes it'll hit the owners hard with them losing maybe around £2m - £5m in pre-season sales yet in the words of the Bayern Munich owners (I know they're slightly bigger than us), whats that sort of money to a multi-millionaire to Roland Duchatalet I imagine the club would set season tickets lower if we werent competing with the rest of the Division in terms of FFP which has all but fallen.

    So it comes down to his broken shoe which has been repaired with tape... Yes that money will hit Roland hard but he doesnt care, he wont splash to cash to repair what is broken and will just use a bit of tape to repair the damage.

    Ultimately those that boycott the games will be those who make the most fuss and noise during the matches, it could all be ifs and buts yet having the peace and quiet of them not being inside the Valley could make the job harder for him to sell.

    As I've said, they're my views...

    Dont try to change my mind, I've decided what I'm going to do and if people dont like it then tough, I've always been my own man and if you try to get me to change my mind I'll just dig my heels in more, like many others are probably doing.

    Would you consider a pitch invasion? Not sure if ones been mentioned before? If so don't wear your heels (:

    Top post btw mate.
    Thats a damned good idea by the way ;)

    I'm just tired of hearing the arguments that your either in one camp or your in the other... How can I be in one of them when I refuse to walk out (Cant be for the protest) but then call for the Belgians to get out of the club (Funny way for me to be for the board)
    I respect your point of view FA, but is it not crystal clear that words and chants achieve absolutely nothing towards your stated desire of getting them out? Whilst this certainly does not make you a sympathiser, continuing to line the pockets of someone you are so at odds with does appear a little strange to many people.
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    The thing is, it's not hard for him to sell. There's an offer already on the table, so boycotting, not buying season tickets, etc. currently makes zero difference to our saleability, but does hit the current owners pockets. It's flawed logic to say "I'm going to keep putting money in Roland's pocket because it makes our club more attractive to potential buyers". We have a buyer, Roland won't sell. If we hit his pockets hard enough it might change his mind.

    what is that offer though?

    if it is a relatively low,cut your losses offer then it will make someone like RD dig their heels in. (is @ForeverAddickted really RD?)
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    Anyone know where I can get my shoes repaired for free... Even the laces are breaking apart now!!
  • Options

    The thing is, it's not hard for him to sell. There's an offer already on the table, so boycotting, not buying season tickets, etc. currently makes zero difference to our saleability, but does hit the current owners pockets. It's flawed logic to say "I'm going to keep putting money in Roland's pocket because it makes our club more attractive to potential buyers". We have a buyer, Roland won't sell. If we hit his pockets hard enough it might change his mind.

    what is that offer though?

    if it is a relatively low,cut your losses offer then it will make someone like RD dig their heels in. (is @ForeverAddickted really RD?)
    The answer is we don't know, and neither does Roland as not only refused to the speak to the man delivering the offer, but insulted him also. All we have is Peter Varney's word that it is a substantial offer, a word I'm sure we'd all take over that of RD/KM
  • Options

    cafctom said:

    Yes it does matter actually. If people don't want to join in with the protests then that is their choice, but it is a fact that the more people joining in means the bigger the impact.

    What I think Sadie is saying is does it matter what people choose to do... A lot of arguments have been caused because some of us walked out, some of us didnt... When at the end of the day we should stop arguing and just let people do what they decide.
    Exactly, by arguing amongst ourselves, knowing that the evil ones read these forums we are in a way undoing hard work. We need to concentrate more on the matters at hand and the real enemies and stop worrying about and fighting with those that choose not to get involved.
    Ok, yes I do agree. The problem is that it is something we all feel so passionate (and angry) about that it really does become hard to not pass judgment or get wound up by it at times.
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    I think the club are well aware that in time the fans will start arguing amongst themselves. Some very intelligent and passionate supporters started CARD but unfortunately the dickheads will jump on board. The idiot on the pitch and the idiots whistling will drive others away and the infighting will start. If we let those that started this become the ones who dictate I think it will pick up momentum as the protests become more creative. Ruining people's match day experience will alienate those who probably agree with the basics of the cause.
    IMO
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    masicat said:

    I think the club are well aware that in time the fans will start arguing amongst themselves. Some very intelligent and passionate supporters started CARD but unfortunately the dickheads will jump on board. The idiot on the pitch and the idiots whistling will drive others away and the infighting will start. If we let those that started this become the ones who dictate I think it will pick up momentum as the protests become more creative. Ruining people's match day experience will alienate those who probably agree with the basics of the cause.
    IMO

    And calling people "idiots" helps that, does it?
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    Off_it said:

    masicat said:

    I think the club are well aware that in time the fans will start arguing amongst themselves. Some very intelligent and passionate supporters started CARD but unfortunately the dickheads will jump on board. The idiot on the pitch and the idiots whistling will drive others away and the infighting will start. If we let those that started this become the ones who dictate I think it will pick up momentum as the protests become more creative. Ruining people's match day experience will alienate those who probably agree with the basics of the cause.
    IMO

    And calling people "idiots" helps that, does it?

    Well, it's my opinion, and it demonstrates what I mean. Can you not see that? In my opinion, they are. But I agree with everything else. Even agreed with then beach balls because it was early on. Leve pitch invasions and whistling to our friends at the New Den.
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    If Roland had spoken to Varney and said the offer wasn’t any good, at least he would have a position. It is clear that he isn’t wanted at the club, fans have been insulted by his CEO and she is still in charge, despite having some weird sort of gagging order on her. How can she do her job properly in terms of communicating with supporters. And what does keeping her in her role say about the contempt he holds for us. The answer is a simple one – communicating with supporters isn’t an important part of her job. She can’t be bothered to respond to e-mails from sponsors FFS which says it all.

    The point was well made that fans will have different levels they are willing to go to. And you also have some fans who shoot off about drastic action, but don’t actually go to the games! The trick is getting the action right, so the majority of fans feel comfortable with it. Yesterday was a great example of that. It isn’t about getting Roland to understand our feelings – we know he does already. It is also about letting him know that he is wasting his time and we are not going to help him at all. Even he must realise that he can’t run the club without the support of the fans.
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    From yesterday it is clear that 98% of people agree with the CARD objective. Lower % agree and will support any particular action whether it be walkouts, outside the West stand, boycotts, not buying season tickets, not buying merchandise, pitch invasions, whistle blowing, beach balls etc.
    The important thing is we stick together with the overall objective in mind. Each to support those they can and want to. We can encourage people to take part in more but not castigate them for not.
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    edited March 2016
    masicat said:

    I think the club are well aware that in time the fans will start arguing amongst themselves. Some very intelligent and passionate supporters started CARD but unfortunately the dickheads will jump on board. The idiot on the pitch and the idiots whistling will drive others away and the infighting will start. If we let those that started this become the ones who dictate I think it will pick up momentum as the protests become more creative. Ruining people's match day experience will alienate those who probably agree with the basics of the cause.
    IMO

    @masicat You do realise that CARD organised the whistles, don't you. So CARD are intelligent and passionate idiots according to you.

    No one's match day experience was ruined, if anything it was enhanced, by the protests.
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    masicat said:

    I think the club are well aware that in time the fans will start arguing amongst themselves. Some very intelligent and passionate supporters started CARD but unfortunately the dickheads will jump on board. The idiot on the pitch and the idiots whistling will drive others away and the infighting will start. If we let those that started this become the ones who dictate I think it will pick up momentum as the protests become more creative. Ruining people's match day experience will alienate those who probably agree with the basics of the cause.
    IMO

    You do realise that CARD organised the whistles, don't you. So CARD are intelligent and passionate idiots according to you.

    No one's match day experience was ruined, if anything it was enhanced, by the protests.
    the boro team might disagree
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    masicat said:

    I think the club are well aware that in time the fans will start arguing amongst themselves. Some very intelligent and passionate supporters started CARD but unfortunately the dickheads will jump on board. The idiot on the pitch and the idiots whistling will drive others away and the infighting will start. If we let those that started this become the ones who dictate I think it will pick up momentum as the protests become more creative. Ruining people's match day experience will alienate those who probably agree with the basics of the cause.
    IMO

    You do realise that CARD organised the whistles, don't you. So CARD are intelligent and passionate idiots according to you.

    No one's match day experience was ruined, if anything it was enhanced, by the protests.
    the boro team might disagree
    Was typing a response, but this will do.
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    Will you all just SHUT UP I mean that in the nicest possible way. Some of you are really missing the point. Stop arguing amongst yourselves no one here is the enemy. We all have different opinions and are entitled to them. Please stop calling each other names and pulling each other up on posts, draw a line under it and concentrate on what and who is important.
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