You may well be right Charlie.....and of course I may well be impatient, frustrated and wrong, but then I am no longer a trust board member, just a member of the trust, and just giving my opinion. Perhaps after two years I feel that RD does not do dialogue. Anyway he will not have to deal with the likes of me, so it is not all bad news for him and his regime cohorts.
In the last few months CARD have really given fans a chance to show their dismay at RD & KM in the right way gaining a lot of attention along the way. CARD have given a lot of us some hope and gained a fair bit of admiration along the way but What exactly have the trust done in this time other than ask for a few meetings?
It would be unjust for CAST to just rock up now asking for some 'communication' when CARD have been plugging away for a while now.
From here on out all those who oppose this ownership would be better off by focusing on how we are going to get this ownership away from Charlton. Building bridges with the supporters trust or a strategy group is NOT going to resolve the problems at our club. Frank discussion with a pair of liars is not the answer. How many times has KM lied to the fans? and you want to give her another chance to lie to us all? Bollocks!
The guy leading the funeral procession on Sunday is the Trust's Secretary. The Trust have been heavily involved in all the CARD meetings from what I can gather so they have been plugging away for a while now too.
Fair play.
I still think that their offer of a frank discussion is not the way out of this, mind.
We know Rd and KM won't talk but the offer to do so gives the fans the moral high ground in the media's eyes.
This is, imho, a statement for the wider audience rather than hard core protestors.
And next time someone digs you out for wearing a black and white scarf or protest by saying "the club said they would communicate" you can respond with "dialogue was offered but refused"
This. I mean I'd probably put it a little more subtly, but this.
@castrust if I could like this ten times, I would. I think this is the perfect move for the moment. In my opinion, now is the time to keep pressure on the regime. Given how media-savvy the coalition groups seem to be, I suspect this has been sent to various media outlets. I noticed that the club's statement appeared at the end of The Guardian match report, and even though they don't cover the Football League much, I think it worth sending to them as a rebuttal/follow-on to the club's statement.
As for the two week deadline some are focusing on, two weeks is in age in terms of a media story. Right now it's most important to keep the protests visible and to "stay on top of the narrative," which I think this does excellently.
Steve et al I doff my cap and applaud all of you and your efforts.
It has been made perfectly clear a number of times that it is Duchatelet's way or nothing and fans have to accept that.
I don't know how many times the same questions are going to be asked but their statement after Sunday was a mere PR exercise for the media's benefit and he has no intention of engaging beyond further knee jerk interviews and meaningless statements.
Even if he humors you and meets he will not change his model or the way he misruns the club.
He will just do the bare minimum to spin the publicity and then carry on as normal when the fuss has died down.
They've been talking rubbish Murray, Meire and Duchatelet since day one and have properly mugged off the fanbase beyond redemption a number of times.
How much more do they need to do before the Trust realise they are not interested in dialogue about positively reforming the strategy and the state of the club?
It's plain to see that the time for reconciliation and constructive dialogue has long since psssed.
Surely the Trust should now be seeking to remove the odious regime from the club asap in line with what the majority protesters appear to want? Think the mandate has changed recently to thst surely?
They want a response of "we won't negotiate" as that let's them off the hook and they can say "we tried by the fans are unreasonable"
Now the story is, hopefully, when will CA FC respond to the fans offer to meet.
Not sure why there is a trust letter and a card statement though. Thought the card statement was stronger.
Do you not think that considering what the Acronym CARD stands for, it was important for two different statements being sent with the CARD one being the stronger as that has one aim.
The Trust should want them to go as well but with a exit strategy for RD. that's the only olive branch that should be left for the shambles that has been the Tenure of Duchatelet.
Do you not think that considering what the Acronym CARD stands for, it was important for two different statements being sent with the CARD one being the stronger as that has one aim.
The Trust should want them to go as well but with a exit strategy for RD. that's the only olive branch that should be left for the shambles that has been the Tenure of Duchatelet.
Agree 100% with the first part of your post.
Agreed, and I think that a statement with the "letterhead" of a supporters trust will carry a lot more weight with the neutral/media, right, wrong, or otherwise.
In the last few months CARD have really given fans a chance to show their dismay at RD & KM in the right way gaining a lot of attention along the way. CARD have given a lot of us some hope and gained a fair bit of admiration along the way but What exactly have the trust done in this time other than ask for a few meetings?
It would be unjust for CAST to just rock up now asking for some 'communication' when CARD have been plugging away for a while now.
CARD and CAST are two completely different vehicles with two completely different aims.
CAST / CAST Board Members have been more than contributing into CARDs objectives / initiatives whilst remaining as a detached body available for dialogue.
I'm glad some on here have realised that there are subtle strategies at play here and that, above all, we are simply calling their bluff in public. There is strength in having a clear difference in tone between the Trust and CARD. You will note that this response is specifically to RD.
The link has just been retweeted by Owen Gibson, Chief Sports Correspondent of The Guardian. If you're on Twitter, you could help by sharing it. Thanks.
If Roland does react in any way, it will surely be to bat the ball back to Night-Meire, just as he did with Varney's investment opportunity? And that will get us absolutely nowhere.
Hopefully that brings you to the tweet. Full credit to Owen Gibson, he's commented on this a number of times and he's an excellent, old fashioned investigative journalist.
I'm glad some on here have realised that there are subtle strategies at play here and that, above all, we are simply calling their bluff in public. There is strength in having a clear difference in tone between the Trust and CARD. You will note that this response is specifically to RD.
The link has just been retweeted by Owen Gibson, Chief Sports Correspondent of The Guardian. If you're on Twitter, you could help by sharing it. Thanks.
But what if he calls the Trust's bluff and says yes. Will the Trust ask fans to hold off on protests in the meantime?
Rather than a clever bluff this has signalled a weakness in the opposition to Duchatalet as he will know the Trust will concede ground to get a place at his table.
EDIT having said that he would probably not as he wouldn't even think about it. And where is Murray linked in all this?
That's the strength of the trust and CARD being separate. The trust can rightfully state they have no influence over CARD and cannot stop any protests.
Charlton Athletic Supporters’ Trust were interested to see the statement on the Club’s official website on Sunday which finally publicly acknowledged the true extent of fans' protests and which stated that the club is determined to do everything it can to work together with supporters to "build our relationship with them and make sure they remain at the heart of the club".
As you are fully aware, CAS Trust has more than once requested constructive dialogue with you - most recently when I wrote to you three weeks ago - yet so far this has failed to materialise or receive any genuine and positive response from you. Indeed, we were very surprised by the mention in Katrien's email reply to me of an on-going “strategy group”. We do not believe that such a group has in fact been set up and you can therefore perhaps understand why we are inclined to approach Sunday's statement with a high degree of scepticism.
I’m sure you have now come to the realisation that the protests are an expression of extreme dissatisfaction among the vast majority of supporters and that they are not going to go away until such time as there are dramatic changes in how the club is owned and run. CAS Trust have long campaigned amongst our members for continued efforts in establishing dialogue with you, and a continued lack of anything close to meaningful progress has led us to participate in the on-going protests.
As it stands today, you have not begun to address supporters' concerns and I therefore repeat the offer I made three weeks ago to meet you for an open and frank dialogue about the club’s future direction and what collectively we can do. Take us up on this offer within the next two weeks and we will perhaps start to believe that Sunday’s statement does actually represent a serious message, and is not simply intended as media appeasement.
This club has always enjoyed fantastic support on so many levels from the fans. Like you we are also extremely saddened by the position we find ourselves in - both on and off the pitch.
Steve Clarke CAS Trust Chairman
If it's pitch side advertising you're after I'd go directly to the marketing team.
But what if he calls the Trust's bluff and says yes. Will the Trust ask fans to hold off on protests in the meantime?
Rather than a clever bluff this has signalled a weakness in the opposition to Duchatalet as he will know the Trust will concede ground to get a place at his table.
EDIT having said that he would probably not as he wouldn't even think about it. And where is Murray linked in all this?
The letter clearly says the fans are angry/pissed off/ concerned about/etc about the way the club is owned and run. words to that effect. I take it to mean not a search for clarity (for which we might get treated to another amateur hour power point presentation), but a chance to find out if he will seriously talk (to anybody) about selling, and if he is intending to continue to run the club in the way it has been so far. If serious talk of ownership and procedure in football and non football activities are not on the table, then I see the Trust statement as implying that Roland needn't bother. Owned and run.
Good statement. fully support this...and all other activities too.
I'm glad some on here have realised that there are subtle strategies at play here and that, above all, we are simply calling their bluff in public. There is strength in having a clear difference in tone between the Trust and CARD. You will note that this response is specifically to RD.
The link has just been retweeted by Owen Gibson, Chief Sports Correspondent of The Guardian. If you're on Twitter, you could help by sharing it. Thanks.
But what if he calls the Trust's bluff and says yes. Will the Trust ask fans to hold off on protests in the meantime?
Rather than a clever bluff this has signalled a weakness in the opposition to Duchatalet as he will know the Trust will concede ground to get a place at his table.
EDIT having said that he would probably not as he wouldn't even think about it. And where is Murray linked in all this?
To my knowledge hes not spoken with supporters of any of his clubs so that would be a breakthrough. Getting it straight from the Trust rather than KM's distorted views just may make him wake up and smell the coffee. I think it's worth a try even though it is most unlikely to happen.
Everyone I have spoken to as part of the protests have all been clear they want a change of ownership, I don't hear many people wanting dialogue.
I personally want a leader that leads correctly not a leader that's just a puppet to whatever a supporter group wants them to do!
The supporter group input should be a bonus to the club not a basic requirement.
As far as I'm concerned I still wont attend with Rolland and Co at the helm. regardless of the communications going forward with the fan base.
Total rejection of the regime is needed!
The response should have been thanks but no thanks please leave now!
No ifs and buts? .
Personally I welcome both this and CARDs statement, someone has to be shown to taken the moral high ground during all this, and CAST statement will at least give legitimacy to the fact that CAFC's statement was a load of old bollox!
Think you needed to come out with this around the same time as CARD did, it is a good response though. Although it does read to me that if they agree to talk to you you will distance yourselves from the protests, which you shouldn't do.
By now everybody should be aware that they are only interested in a one way dialogue, where they explain that we all have it wrong and that it is our fault we don't understand their master plan.
Everyone I have spoken to as part of the protests have all been clear they want a change of ownership, I don't hear many people wanting dialogue.
I personally want a leader that leads correctly not a leader that's just a puppet to whatever a supporter group wants them to do!
The supporter group input should be a bonus to the club not a basic requirement.
As far as I'm concerned I still wont attend with Rolland and Co at the helm. regardless of the communications going forward with the fan base.
Total rejection of the regime is needed!
The response should have been thanks but no thanks please leave now!
No ifs and buts? .
Personally I welcome both this and CARDs statement, someone has to be shown to taken the moral high ground during all this, and CAST statement will at least give legitimacy to the fact that CAFC's statement was a load of old bollox!
Oh I see what you done there - very clever!
Lean down a bit and I will pat you on the head! you will be in the CL hall of fame soon!
Think you needed to come out with this around the same time as CARD did, it is a good response though. Although it does read to me that if they agree to talk to you you will distance yourselves from the protests, which you shouldn't do.
By now everybody should be aware that they are only interested in a one way dialogue, where they explain that we all have it wrong and that it is our fault we don't understand their master plan.
I hate the phrase "distance yourself". It smacks of dodgy politicians pretending they never said or did something. Nearly every member of the Trust Board has done something or other to help the protests, (as well as being co-funders as an organisation), and the Club know the identities of several of them.
So its a bit late for any "distancing", and we are not remotely bothered by that.
Not sure what all the hoo-haa's about. It's only been three weeks since you wrote. The Peter Varney experience suggests you may get your first acknowledgement in ten days or thereabouts. My guess is you will be directed to resend your email to the new Fans email address which they launched today. I hope they have outsourced the management of this to India. It would be wholly in keeping. Delete, Return, Repeat.
I'd hate to think all this effort the fans are putting into forcing the owner's hand is so Katrien with her Joker-like grimace and Murray with his usual 'what's going on 'ere' look slapped all over his Chevy Chase standing behind a very, very ill geriatric sitting there wobbling his finger on his lips whilst going 'wibble wibble wibble' as representatives of the Trust attempt to explain to him the finer points of running a football club.
I thought the official position the fans were taking was 'Roland it's time to sell up'.
I'm glad some on here have realised that there are subtle strategies at play here and that, above all, we are simply calling their bluff in public. There is strength in having a clear difference in tone between the Trust and CARD. You will note that this response is specifically to RD.
The link has just been retweeted by Owen Gibson, Chief Sports Correspondent of The Guardian. If you're on Twitter, you could help by sharing it. Thanks.
But what if he calls the Trust's bluff and says yes. Will the Trust ask fans to hold off on protests in the meantime?
Rather than a clever bluff this has signalled a weakness in the opposition to Duchatalet as he will know the Trust will concede ground to get a place at his table.
EDIT having said that he would probably not as he wouldn't even think about it. And where is Murray linked in all this?
You say this kind of thing a lot as if it was an end not a means. Our objectives are clearly stated and that's what we work to, among which is preserving the club for future generations.
Regardless of the protests, unless he decides to sell some discussion will be needed to try to change things. Frankly I could do without any more Charlton-related meetings and none of us want to waste our time going through the motions with a CEO who really doesn't want to talk to us - or us to talk to Roland.
I see no reason why we should ask anyone to call off protests. CARD may decide to do so if tangible and measurable change has been achieved, but right now their objective is to see the owner sell up.
EDIT: There are several objectives to that letter and I'll leave you to consider where achieving a meeting fits within them. It's no lose really is it - either we get to talk to Roland, or once again the lack of substance behind the club's messages is exposed.
Comments
Perhaps after two years I feel that RD does not do dialogue. Anyway he will not have to deal with the likes of me, so it is not all bad news for him and his regime cohorts.
I still think that their offer of a frank discussion is not the way out of this, mind.
@castrust if I could like this ten times, I would. I think this is the perfect move for the moment. In my opinion, now is the time to keep pressure on the regime. Given how media-savvy the coalition groups seem to be, I suspect this has been sent to various media outlets. I noticed that the club's statement appeared at the end of The Guardian match report, and even though they don't cover the Football League much, I think it worth sending to them as a rebuttal/follow-on to the club's statement.
As for the two week deadline some are focusing on, two weeks is in age in terms of a media story. Right now it's most important to keep the protests visible and to "stay on top of the narrative," which I think this does excellently.
Steve et al I doff my cap and applaud all of you and your efforts.
I don't know how many times the same questions are going to be asked but their statement after Sunday was a mere PR exercise for the media's benefit and he has no intention of engaging beyond further knee jerk interviews and meaningless statements.
Even if he humors you and meets he will not change his model or the way he misruns the club.
He will just do the bare minimum to spin the publicity and then carry on as normal when the fuss has died down.
They've been talking rubbish Murray, Meire and Duchatelet since day one and have properly mugged off the fanbase beyond redemption a number of times.
How much more do they need to do before the Trust realise they are not interested in dialogue about positively reforming the strategy and the state of the club?
It's plain to see that the time for reconciliation and constructive dialogue has long since psssed.
Surely the Trust should now be seeking to remove the odious regime from the club asap in line with what the majority protesters appear to want? Think the mandate has changed recently to thst surely?
CAST / CAST Board Members have been more than contributing into CARDs objectives / initiatives whilst remaining as a detached body available for dialogue.
The link has just been retweeted by Owen Gibson, Chief Sports Correspondent of The Guardian. If you're on Twitter, you could help by sharing it. Thanks.
Hopefully that brings you to the tweet. Full credit to Owen Gibson, he's commented on this a number of times and he's an excellent, old fashioned investigative journalist.
Rather than a clever bluff this has signalled a weakness in the opposition to Duchatalet as he will know the Trust will concede ground to get a place at his table.
EDIT having said that he would probably not as he wouldn't even think about it.
And where is Murray linked in all this?
These people are poison and need to be treated as such.
Go for the jugular.
Bloody do goods rd.
I feel like we're starting to read the liner notes aloud
Edit: Should start at 40s
I take it to mean not a search for clarity (for which we might get treated to another amateur hour power point presentation), but a chance to find out if he will seriously talk (to anybody) about selling, and if he is intending to continue to run the club in the way it has been so far.
If serious talk of ownership and procedure in football and non football activities are not on the table, then I see the Trust statement as implying that Roland needn't bother.
Owned and run.
Good statement. fully support this...and all other activities too.
I personally want a leader that leads correctly not a leader that's just a puppet to whatever a supporter group wants them to do!
The supporter group input should be a bonus to the club not a basic requirement.
As far as I'm concerned I still wont attend with Rolland and Co at the helm. regardless of the communications going forward with the fan base.
Total rejection of the regime is needed!
The response should have been thanks but no thanks please leave now!
Personally I welcome both this and CARDs statement, someone has to be shown to taken the moral high ground during all this, and CAST statement will at least give legitimacy to the fact that CAFC's statement was a load of old bollox!
By now everybody should be aware that they are only interested in a one way dialogue, where they explain that we all have it wrong and that it is our fault we don't understand their master plan.
Lean down a bit and I will pat you on the head! you will be in the CL hall of fame soon!
So its a bit late for any "distancing", and we are not remotely bothered by that.
I thought the official position the fans were taking was 'Roland it's time to sell up'.
Regardless of the protests, unless he decides to sell some discussion will be needed to try to change things. Frankly I could do without any more Charlton-related meetings and none of us want to waste our time going through the motions with a CEO who really doesn't want to talk to us - or us to talk to Roland.
I see no reason why we should ask anyone to call off protests. CARD may decide to do so if tangible and measurable change has been achieved, but right now their objective is to see the owner sell up.
EDIT: There are several objectives to that letter and I'll leave you to consider where achieving a meeting fits within them. It's no lose really is it - either we get to talk to Roland, or once again the lack of substance behind the club's messages is exposed.