Ian Duncan Smith on Andrew Marr today. Talk about shameless hypocrisy, he tries to portray himself as Mother Teresa in it to help people, no political ambition...remind me, did he not fight to become leader of the Tories, and win? Poor love, he must think everybody watching would be reaching for their hankies, or putting on a proper suit, doing up their ties, and holding his hand as together the national anthem is sung. Tell you what Ian, if you care that much, resign and do the 9pm to 7.45am shift in a care home for a couple of years. Good old traditional political hypocrisy from this vomit of a man. FFS this country voted him in, so we are obliged to accept this 'winner'.
Not sure you listened in enough detail Seth. And your thick layer of bile covering your post made it hard to believe.
He actually said he didnt need to join this government, and was persuaded to on certain conditions (which have now been withdrawn) and that he has no political ambition. He wasnt talking about when he was a young thrusting politician.
My layer of bile is rather thin actually. I do not buy in to this being about principle, i think it is about political manoevering so IDS can eventually get one of the major offices of state, if now he can't be PM. he was 'persuaded' to join the government? And has been in it for six years dragged kicking and screaming to his department?
This is more about Europe than anything else to me from the IDS perspective. The Conservatives are declaring their battle lines. Boris is keeping a low profile, ready to pick up the pieces. All a bit sad as a serious issue here.
Not sure you understand ''this government'', but I'll let you carry on shooting that blunderbuss from the hip.
What exactly don't I understand?
Unfortunately there is a character limit on these things so would be difficult to even concisely summarise what you don't understand.
Oh OK. You reckon I fail to understand an enormous amount, so it saves anybody the bother of making a case for their point of view and against mine/ How do you know the quantity of my ignorance? It really is very easy for the Tories to dismiss others as 'plebs' isn't it?
@cafcfan you mention Jaguar, Aston Martin & McLaren as your examples of businesses expanding...all very admirable and I am sure the populace will go out in their vast numbers and buy these new products to stimulate that growth further.
Just for a bit of balance, how about NPower announcing 2,400 job losses (20% of their workforce - UK losses to be confirmed, but the Midlands likely to be hit hard). How about Asda cutting 750 jobs...RBS 450 Investment Banking jobs (probably not a bad thing)...BHS 370 jobs and Tesco considering 29,000 cuts...Lloyds 1,755 jobs...Boots 350 jobs...ALL OF THESE IN THE LAST MONTH!
So if you work at a bank and lose your job that's ok because you are probably a tory..
BHS are a basket case of a business going through a restructure and rebranding and the job cuts are inevitable. If their leaders get it right those jobs will be back in 2 years
As someone who another poster on this thread has demonstrated is now paying over £10k more tax based on an unchanged salary since 2012 I get the hump every time a tax discussion comes up...
I work in a bank @Southendaddick and I have for over 30 years! It was a reference to the type of banking, which is being wound down by most of the financial institutions. Perhaps it shouldn't have been allowed to have developed to the extent it did and in the areas that it did in the first place.
I am most definitely paying more tax, but as many have said on this thread, bringing in tax easing, the upper 40% threshold at the same time as reducing benefits to the disabled, isn't on in my opinion.
@cafcfan you mention Jaguar, Aston Martin & McLaren as your examples of businesses expanding...all very admirable and I am sure the populace will go out in their vast numbers and buy these new products to stimulate that growth further.
Just for a bit of balance, how about NPower announcing 2,400 job losses (20% of their workforce - UK losses to be confirmed, but the Midlands likely to be hit hard). How about Asda cutting 750 jobs...RBS 450 Investment Banking jobs (probably not a bad thing)...BHS 370 jobs and Tesco considering 29,000 cuts...Lloyds 1,755 jobs...Boots 350 jobs...ALL OF THESE IN THE LAST MONTH!
Are they all wealth generating as well??
N Power cutting jobs because of customers deserting them. For poor customer service. So they reduce their customer service. They are operating in a non- compitetive market which is a scandal in itself.
I agree @harveys gardener but we still have people losing jobs at a rate of knots. Badly run & inefficient (BHS, nPower), regulation & restructure (RBS), the drive for productivity...which most bosses seem to think means get the same or more work out of fewer people - my own bank have had a job freeze for the last 8 months. 2 managers have left on my own team - the remaining 11 have taken on their 50+ clients.
It's OK though, Jaguar, McLaren & Aston Martin will all be making things 98% of us will be able to look at in magazines
@TelMc32 and @harveys gardener I made these points to counter someone's ludicrous suggestion that there was a decrease in demand and economic growth. As ever, with these things you have to look at the macro picture. Parochial anecdotes don't really help, I know. But my examples were of businesses which would need capital in order to finance their growth plans. Whether you or I could afford to buy their products is neither here nor there. The point is that each vehicle, maybe exported to the Middle East, requires an enormous number of parts and supports jobs growth. Of course, some industries go into decline, whether that's an incompetent bank or the manufacturer whose products are not as good/desirable as its competitors. (Who buys a Toshiba TV any more when there are LGs and Samsungs? The giant Nokia used to rule the mobile phone world, it's now a small subsidiary of Microsoft and has shipped out thousands of jobs.) NPower is shedding jobs because it was rubbish and charged too much. Capital is needed to support the dynamic not bail out the useless. Fashions change, technology moves on apace. No one can seriously claim the UK economy is currently shrinking. It is not and projections predict increases for the future. If you don't believe me, take a look at the ONS data. (Even the CBI model which predicts Brexit will cost the UK £100bn and a million jobs, still predicts some growth, just not as much as staying in the EU would bring.) Some people lose jobs while others gain them of course. Companies in the City are worried about losing "corporate memory" because their staff switch jobs so frequently, unemployment is at a 10-year low, employment at an all-time high. Where we are still missing out is with the UK's very poor productivity figures. In other words we could all do with working harder and smarter. But to do that we need more businesses to invest in new, better equipment. And that brings us back to the need for capital expenditure and the important role savings play in providing the wherewithal to finance such expansion.
One debate emerging from this budget is the academisation of all schools.
It was not in the Tory manifesto.
I have a few questions for any Tories that think this is a good idea.
What exactly does it mean to be an Academy educationally?
Why do many Local Authority schools 'perform better' than adjacent academy's?
How does changing the name of a school make it better?
In what way will an Academy improve the in lesson experience for children in comparison to traditional schools?
If any Tories here would like to engage with these questions then let's have the debate.
I want to repeat it was not in their manifesto.
Throughout my lifetime no politicians of any persuasion have been prepared to properly engage with the fundamental issues of Education, and that is nothing to do with teacher workload.
Everybody thinks they know the answers to education because they've all been to school. I don't know how to perform brain surgery because I have a brain.
Nicky Morgan is probably motivated by the economics of the Education system, don't let her fool you into thinking she is trying to make schooling or education 'better' because she does not have any credible idea as to what 'better' is.
Personally I am inclined to file Nicky Morgan in the prince(ss) of darkness group of politicians.
Why was the Academy act and the ending of the obligation to have parent governors brought up in a budget speech and not through normal house procedures?
Is it fiscally responsible to hand over publicly owned land (schools, buildings and grounds) to non public bodies who can then sell to make a profit (sometimes) for themselves rather than the school?
@TelMc32 and @harveys gardener I made these points to counter someone's ludicrous suggestion that there was a decrease in demand and economic growth. As ever, with these things you have to look at the macro picture. Parochial anecdotes don't really help, I know. But my examples were of businesses which would need capital in order to finance their growth plans. Whether you or I could afford to buy their products is neither here nor there. The point is that each vehicle, maybe exported to the Middle East, requires an enormous number of parts and supports jobs growth. Of course, some industries go into decline, whether that's an incompetent bank or the manufacturer whose products are not as good/desirable as its competitors. (Who buys a Toshiba TV any more when there are LGs and Samsungs? The giant Nokia used to rule the mobile phone world, it's now a small subsidiary of Microsoft and has shipped out thousands of jobs.) NPower is shedding jobs because it was rubbish and charged too much. Capital is needed to support the dynamic not bail out the useless. Fashions change, technology moves on apace. No one can seriously claim the UK economy is currently shrinking. It is not and projections predict increases for the future. If you don't believe me, take a look at the ONS data. (Even the CBI model which predicts Brexit will cost the UK £100bn and a million jobs, still predicts some growth, just not as much as staying in the EU would bring.) Some people lose jobs while others gain them of course. Companies in the City are worried about losing "corporate memory" because their staff switch jobs so frequently, unemployment is at a 10-year low, employment at an all-time high. Where we are still missing out is with the UK's very poor productivity figures. In other words we could all do with working harder and smarter. But to do that we need more businesses to invest in new, better equipment. And that brings us back to the need for capital expenditure and the important role savings play in providing the wherewithal to finance such expansion.
It's not just about investment in capital equipment because we make very little these days. Zero and part-time jobs also distort productivity figures despite the fact we work the longest hours and least bank holidays in Europe and the UK leads the world in distorting employment figures.
@TelMc32 and @harveys gardener I made these points to counter someone's ludicrous suggestion that there was a decrease in demand and economic growth. As ever, with these things you have to look at the macro picture. Parochial anecdotes don't really help, I know. But my examples were of businesses which would need capital in order to finance their growth plans. Whether you or I could afford to buy their products is neither here nor there. The point is that each vehicle, maybe exported to the Middle East, requires an enormous number of parts and supports jobs growth. Of course, some industries go into decline, whether that's an incompetent bank or the manufacturer whose products are not as good/desirable as its competitors. (Who buys a Toshiba TV any more when there are LGs and Samsungs? The giant Nokia used to rule the mobile phone world, it's now a small subsidiary of Microsoft and has shipped out thousands of jobs.) NPower is shedding jobs because it was rubbish and charged too much. Capital is needed to support the dynamic not bail out the useless. Fashions change, technology moves on apace. No one can seriously claim the UK economy is currently shrinking. It is not and projections predict increases for the future. If you don't believe me, take a look at the ONS data. (Even the CBI model which predicts Brexit will cost the UK £100bn and a million jobs, still predicts some growth, just not as much as staying in the EU would bring.) Some people lose jobs while others gain them of course. Companies in the City are worried about losing "corporate memory" because their staff switch jobs so frequently, unemployment is at a 10-year low, employment at an all-time high. Where we are still missing out is with the UK's very poor productivity figures. In other words we could all do with working harder and smarter. But to do that we need more businesses to invest in new, better equipment. And that brings us back to the need for capital expenditure and the important role savings play in providing the wherewithal to finance such expansion.
It's not just about investment in capital equipment because we make very little these days. Zero and part-time jobs also distort productivity figures despite the fact we work the longest hours and least bank holidays in Europe and the UK leads the world in distorting employment figures.
Manufacturing contributes £6.7tr to the global economy. Contrary to common belief, UK manufacturing is strong with the UK currently the 11th largest manufacturing nation in the world. Manufacturing makes up 11% of UK GVA and 54% of UK exports and directly employs 2.6 million people.
So, we make very little do we?
One of the reasons I used the car industry as an example, is because it brings jobs of higher quality and pay to an area. Each car industry job is much sought after because it does so much for a local economy.
cafcfan weren't you listening? Thatcher closed all UK industry, the only employment we have is zero hours contracts and bankers who pay no tax in this country. That's the truth despite the facts you keep presenting.
There is no growth, there are no jobs, Tories want to shut all the schools down, prevent people from getting healthcare, and make sure only their mega-rich mates get all the tax breaks. It's all true I admit it.
There is no growth, there are no jobs, Tories want to shut all the schools down, prevent people from getting healthcare, and make sure only their mega-rich mates get all the tax breaks. It's all true I admit it.
We are currently in our 8th year of Tory austerity. Funnily enough most recent Conservative governments have a similar policy. They claim to be the only party of financial responsibility but only ever balance the books by selling the family silver. National debt increased as Gordon dealt with the banking crisis in 2008, but has nearly doubled under Osborne's attack on our most vunerable. Austerity? His first act was to reduce 50% tax on wealthy mates. Successively reduced Corporation Tax when most companies avoid it anyway. Biggest tax breaks for high earners for decades this time, paid for by disabled cuts. Thankfully rejected. No action on lack of competiteveness amongst oligopolys. No action against widening gap between rich and poor. Housing crisis? Give more profits to house-builders but ignore anyone that can't afford to buy. Why do people elect these tossers who play the racist card, subtlely to buy votes.
We are currently in our 8th year of Tory austerity. Funnily enough most recent Conservative governments have a similar policy. They claim to be the only party of financial responsibility but only ever balance the books by selling the family silver. National debt increased as Gordon dealt with the banking crisis in 2008, but has nearly doubled under Osborne's attack on our most vunerable. Austerity? His first act was to reduce 50% tax on wealthy mates. Successively reduced Corporation Tax when most companies avoid it anyway. Biggest tax breaks for high earners for decades this time, paid for by disabled cuts. Thankfully rejected. No action on lack of competiteveness amongst oligopolys. No action against widening gap between rich and poor. Housing crisis? Give more profits to house-builders but ignore anyone that can't afford to buy. Why do people elect these tossers who play the racist card, subtlely to buy votes.
You make a lot of points I agree with about the Tories. They're a complete shower of shits and they're economic competence is wafer thin. The only reason they are given the time of day is because the staggering incompetence of the Labour party who make them seem like fucking geniuses in comparison. Until Labour stop navel gazing the Tories will be given a free ride. If you hate what the Tories are doing you should despise Labour for making it so easy for them.
Thatcher believed that it was wrong to keep weak manufacturing industries going. She believed that we would gravitate to the financial service sector, which we did do to be fair. But to say Thatcher's policies didn't damage this country's manufacturing base is wrong. She believed propping up an industry with tax payer's money was wrong. In the case of some industries, she was probably right. In others, probably wrong. But why is this now challenged? It is there for all to see.
Comments
Central London?
Never - cant stand all those nouveau riche oiks in their ghastly glass palaces.
I do not buy in to this being about principle, i think it is about political manoevering so IDS can eventually get one of the major offices of state, if now he can't be PM.
he was 'persuaded' to join the government? And has been in it for six years dragged kicking and screaming to his department?
I don't think so:
You reckon I fail to understand an enormous amount, so it saves anybody the bother of making a case for their point of view and against mine/
How do you know the quantity of my ignorance?
It really is very easy for the Tories to dismiss others as 'plebs' isn't it?
Just for a bit of balance, how about NPower announcing 2,400 job losses (20% of their workforce - UK losses to be confirmed, but the Midlands likely to be hit hard). How about Asda cutting 750 jobs...RBS 450 Investment Banking jobs (probably not a bad thing)...BHS 370 jobs and Tesco considering 29,000 cuts...Lloyds 1,755 jobs...Boots 350 jobs...ALL OF THESE IN THE LAST MONTH!
Are they all wealth generating as well??
BHS are a basket case of a business going through a restructure and rebranding and the job cuts are inevitable. If their leaders get it right those jobs will be back in 2 years
As someone who another poster on this thread has demonstrated is now paying over £10k more tax based on an unchanged salary since 2012 I get the hump every time a tax discussion comes up...
I am most definitely paying more tax, but as many have said on this thread, bringing in tax easing, the upper 40% threshold at the same time as reducing benefits to the disabled, isn't on in my opinion.
It's OK though, Jaguar, McLaren & Aston Martin will all be making things 98% of us will be able to look at in magazines
Parochial anecdotes don't really help, I know. But my examples were of businesses which would need capital in order to finance their growth plans. Whether you or I could afford to buy their products is neither here nor there. The point is that each vehicle, maybe exported to the Middle East, requires an enormous number of parts and supports jobs growth. Of course, some industries go into decline, whether that's an incompetent bank or the manufacturer whose products are not as good/desirable as its competitors. (Who buys a Toshiba TV any more when there are LGs and Samsungs? The giant Nokia used to rule the mobile phone world, it's now a small subsidiary of Microsoft and has shipped out thousands of jobs.) NPower is shedding jobs because it was rubbish and charged too much. Capital is needed to support the dynamic not bail out the useless.
Fashions change, technology moves on apace.
No one can seriously claim the UK economy is currently shrinking. It is not and projections predict increases for the future. If you don't believe me, take a look at the ONS data. (Even the CBI model which predicts Brexit will cost the UK £100bn and a million jobs, still predicts some growth, just not as much as staying in the EU would bring.)
Some people lose jobs while others gain them of course. Companies in the City are worried about losing "corporate memory" because their staff switch jobs so frequently, unemployment is at a 10-year low, employment at an all-time high. Where we are still missing out is with the UK's very poor productivity figures. In other words we could all do with working harder and smarter. But to do that we need more businesses to invest in new, better equipment. And that brings us back to the need for capital expenditure and the important role savings play in providing the wherewithal to finance such expansion.
It was not in the Tory manifesto.
I have a few questions for any Tories that think this is a good idea.
What exactly does it mean to be an Academy educationally?
Why do many Local Authority schools 'perform better' than adjacent academy's?
How does changing the name of a school make it better?
In what way will an Academy improve the in lesson experience for children in comparison to traditional schools?
If any Tories here would like to engage with these questions then let's have the debate.
I want to repeat it was not in their manifesto.
Throughout my lifetime no politicians of any persuasion have been prepared to properly engage with the fundamental issues of Education, and that is nothing to do with teacher workload.
Everybody thinks they know the answers to education because they've all been to school.
I don't know how to perform brain surgery because I have a brain.
Nicky Morgan is probably motivated by the economics of the Education system, don't let her fool you into thinking she is trying to make schooling or education 'better' because she does not have any credible idea as to what 'better' is.
Personally I am inclined to file Nicky Morgan in the prince(ss) of darkness group of politicians.
Why was the Academy act and the ending of the obligation to have parent governors brought up in a budget speech and not through normal house procedures?
Is it fiscally responsible to hand over publicly owned land (schools, buildings and grounds) to non public bodies who can then sell to make a profit (sometimes) for themselves rather than the school?
So, we make very little do we?
One of the reasons I used the car industry as an example, is because it brings jobs of higher quality and pay to an area. Each car industry job is much sought after because it does so much for a local economy.
There is no growth, there are no jobs, Tories want to shut all the schools down, prevent people from getting healthcare, and make sure only their mega-rich mates get all the tax breaks. It's all true I admit it.