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Can we consider the protests a success even if the owner remains?

MuttleyCAFC
MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,729
edited April 2016 in General Charlton
Now I don’t really want any other outcome than this owner selling the club and taking his useless CEO with him, but it is worth asking a question. If Duchatelet remains, has CARD and its supporters lost? I think the answer a lot of people will say is yes of course. But, I think there is an argument that means the protests have been a partial success even if he stays. For one thing, will we ever have a manager like Fraeye dumped on us again? Roland is not in the firing line, he’s hiding in his Belgian bunker, but his employees are. We pretty much know that pressure was applied from those at the front line not to employ the Upjest manager to replace Fraeye which forced a quick U-turn. We know that there was opposition to his crazy statement, to the point we had a resignation. Whilst this didn’t stop him in that instant, the statement was hidden away on the website without a fanfare as much as possible. We hear that the CEO didn’t want him to publish it. I would say she is learning from the protests. She clearly is much more careful about what she says – to the point of saying pretty much nothing. That has to be good. The owner will always be the owner until he sells, but the club is now aware of reactions of fans in every decision it makes and it influences decisions. This has the potential to temper Duchatelet’s madness to degree going forwards. Not ideal, but we can’t say it isn’t having some effect.

Instead of the stupid loans we made under Fraeye – Riga has made the right signings. Too late – the damage has been done some would say, but there are fine lines sometimes between success and failure and if we can prevent the craziness the club will be better for it. Who knows? Whilst still highly unlikely, our interventions could still keep us up – as whilst we may not have the best manager possible, we probably have the best manager we can expect under Duchatelet. And that is probably thanks to us!
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Comments

  • C4FC4L1f3
    C4FC4L1f3 Posts: 1,917
    he wont remain!

    Apparently he said last week that he thinks he will have to sell Charlton as it is becoming unattainable.

    Some supporters are trying to get confirmation from our moles :)

    Eyes and ears everywhere!
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,729
    edited April 2016
    That would be great – but the point I was trying to make was aimed at those who are saying and have said that there is no point to the protests. They have already have had an effect both on and off the pitch.
  • Pedro45
    Pedro45 Posts: 5,823
    Yes, they are a success, whatever the outcome. Supporters should not and have not just sat by while the club's heart is ripped out. Keep the pressure on! He will have to sell at some point or the financial losses will be huge for him. The sooner the better!
  • PragueAddick
    PragueAddick Posts: 22,145
    In addition to the above:

    - while the protests at Liege did not alone force him out, if they had not happened, he would still be owner.

    - protests in Jena forced him into dialogue and clarification of his business intentions. This may have flared up again, BTW, we are talking to Jena fans about the current situation.
  • Davo55
    Davo55 Posts: 7,836
    C4FC4L1f3 said:

    he wont remain!

    Apparently he said last week that he thinks he will have to sell Charlton as it is becoming unattainable.

    Some supporters are trying to get confirmation from our moles :)

    Eyes and ears everywhere!

    Very interesting. Appreciate you are trying to find out more but any idea where and in what context that comment was (allegedly) made?
  • SuedeAdidas
    SuedeAdidas Posts: 7,741

    Don't view it as a win / lose scenario, but had there not been the impact generated by the protests:

    - we would currently have Nebojša Vignjević as our manager,
    - Roland would still be in the dark to the extent of the discontent
    - Roland would be looking to continue his ownership long-term.

    None of those three things are now the case.

    I reckon we'd currently have Freye after big Neb got sacked ;)
  • Jarman
    Jarman Posts: 1,851
    The protests have exposed our wholly incompetent CEO for what she really is. They have given her a wake up call, and she now knows what she is up against here. With respect, this isn't like STVV, nor is it like a run-of-the-mill football league club. She can't fob us off with her hogwash.
    C.A.R.D have the intelligence,patience,support and momentum to continue to expose her.

    This has become a fight that she knows full well she doesn't want to be in , she can't win.
    Therefore I'd say they have been successful so far but it can't stop until her and RD are gone for good.
  • lolwray
    lolwray Posts: 4,902
    we really do have a lot to thankyou for
  • CARD have shown how to run an intelligent campaign on limited resources and acted within the law - the club should go to them for PR advice.
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  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,729
    The fans at this club have always been its biggest asset. It has done well when it has understood this.
  • kentaddick
    kentaddick Posts: 18,729
    C4FC4L1f3 said:

    he wont remain!

    Apparently he said last week that he thinks he will have to sell Charlton as it is becoming unattainable.

    Some supporters are trying to get confirmation from our moles :)

    Eyes and ears everywhere!

    Loud and clear, maintain the protests, no excuses. I hope there are about 200 others as sure like you C4FC4L1F3.
  • Mackle
    Mackle Posts: 444

    In addition to the above:

    - while the protests at Liege did not alone force him out, if they had not happened, he would still be owner.

    - protests in Jena forced him into dialogue and clarification of his business intentions. This may have flared up again, BTW, we are talking to Jena fans about the current situation.

    CZJ is the part of the network that makes the least sense, due to German ownership laws. Imagine if Roland only owned half of Charlton, and we had someone like @rikofold representing the fans on the board.
  • luke1
    luke1 Posts: 203
    I don't like Roland one bit, but is anyone else concerned about the long term affect CARD might help create? There is already talk among most fans about not renewing their season tickets, my worry is once these people are gone, it will be hard to get them back. I know the ultimate goal is to get Roland out of our club but i'm not sure staying away is the right way to go. The money our season tickets generate is not enough to hurt somebody of his wealth.. we are not really lining his pockets, he has lost loads!! The only thing you will affect is next season playing budget, it could be the case of keeping somebody like Lookman or selling him. Roland will NOT sell us as a league 1 team as he will lose too much.. our best hope of getting rid of him is to get behind the team next season in league one and help get us promoted, then it becomes possible for him to sell.

    I guess although i will hold Roland responsible if in 5 years i'm watching us in league 2 with 3000 people in the Valley, i will regret that we actively encouraged people to stay away. I think if you really want Roland out you are better off in the Valley on a Saturday afternoon letting him know rather than at home forgotten.
  • Don't view it as a win / lose scenario, but had there not been the impact generated by the protests:

    - we would currently have Nebojša Vignjević as our manager,
    - Roland would still be in the dark to the extent of the discontent
    - Roland would be looking to continue his ownership long-term.

    None of those three things are now the case.

    Yeah thanks CARD... We wouldnt be in this mess if Nebojsa Vignjevic was our Manager!! FACT!!
  • luke1
    luke1 Posts: 203
    Fair play if they are all like you CHG.. I just can't see in reality it being like that.
  • andynelson
    andynelson Posts: 1,951
    The protests have enabled me to express my anger at the regime, which makes them a success. To this end I wish there were after-match protests every week, and I wish they were better attended than the last one too. The last two 5-minute protests have achieved a unity among the vast majority of fans, and the kids love them too, which makes them also a success. Passive acceptance of Roland's regime is unthinkable.
  • addix
    addix Posts: 1,185
    There's been precious little else to look forward to on a Saturday afternoon!
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  • Mackle
    Mackle Posts: 444
    edited April 2016

    luke1 said:

    Fair play if they are all like you CHG.. I just can't see in reality it being like that.

    Lets be clear on one thing @luke1 . The long-term impact on fans returning caused by the protests is about 1/1000th of the impact caused by Roland, his ridiculous model, and his hapless lapdog remine.

    Amen to that.

    You've matured @AFKABartram - once upon a time you used to write these huge articles that most Charlton fans would nod in agreement with, and now you are able to condense that same sentiment in to one line instead ;-)
  • CHG said:

    luke1 said:

    I don't like Roland one bit, but is anyone else concerned about the long term affect CARD might help create? There is already talk among most fans about not renewing their season tickets, my worry is once these people are gone, it will be hard to get them back.


    I can only speak for myself, however, I am not renewing my season ticket and I am not going to any more home games under Roland. However, the day he sells up I will immediately purchase a season ticket, home shirt, red and white scarf, club gnome, away shirt, club key ring, club tie, I will then stuff my face with as much food and drink as possible in the ground.

    When that day comes it will be celebrated as one of my happiest moments at The Valley.
    Sadly I think a lot of supporters won't return - much easier destroying a fanbase than building it. The only enjoyable part of this season has been the protests at the last couple of games and there seems precious little joy around the club.
    We could easily get another dodgy owner if RD leaves and we have to hope we don't.
  • WSS
    WSS Posts: 25,070
    I'm still hoping that somehow, we bin off Roland and the next home game The Valley is a sell out.

    Whether that is with CARD using funds to promote/buy tickets or whatever but that would be one hell of a statement.
  • Mackle
    Mackle Posts: 444

    CHG said:

    luke1 said:

    I don't like Roland one bit, but is anyone else concerned about the long term affect CARD might help create? There is already talk among most fans about not renewing their season tickets, my worry is once these people are gone, it will be hard to get them back.


    I can only speak for myself, however, I am not renewing my season ticket and I am not going to any more home games under Roland. However, the day he sells up I will immediately purchase a season ticket, home shirt, red and white scarf, club gnome, away shirt, club key ring, club tie, I will then stuff my face with as much food and drink as possible in the ground.

    When that day comes it will be celebrated as one of my happiest moments at The Valley.
    Sadly I think a lot of supporters won't return - much easier destroying a fanbase than building it. The only enjoyable part of this season has been the protests at the last couple of games and there seems precious little joy around the club.
    We could easily get another dodgy owner if RD leaves and we have to hope we don't.
    But the atmosphere in the ground has been electric recently. In fact, I think it was Sue Gallop who remarked on CAFC Live last weekend that John Fortune said the Valley atmosphere has been the best it's been in years.
  • 3blokes
    3blokes Posts: 4,610
    edited April 2016
    I think they have been a success in that they have allowed a large number of people to express their discontent at RD and Co coherently and exposed that dissatisfaction to the media in an intelligent series of moves.
    Helped enormously, of course, by some glorious gaffes by the regime itself, who seem willing to leave no stone unturned to demonstrate things are a bit of a mess...
  • luke1
    luke1 Posts: 203
    Fair enough @AFKABartram if that's what you believe. But in my opinion its not that simple and we will only hurt our club more in the long run. Roland is hurting himself just as much with his flawed business model and it will be massively in his interest to change his ways or he will lose a lot of money. I guess only time will tell.
  • CHG
    CHG Posts: 4,529

    CHG said:

    luke1 said:

    I don't like Roland one bit, but is anyone else concerned about the long term affect CARD might help create? There is already talk among most fans about not renewing their season tickets, my worry is once these people are gone, it will be hard to get them back.


    I can only speak for myself, however, I am not renewing my season ticket and I am not going to any more home games under Roland. However, the day he sells up I will immediately purchase a season ticket, home shirt, red and white scarf, club gnome, away shirt, club key ring, club tie, I will then stuff my face with as much food and drink as possible in the ground.

    When that day comes it will be celebrated as one of my happiest moments at The Valley.
    Sadly I think a lot of supporters won't return - much easier destroying a fanbase than building it. The only enjoyable part of this season has been the protests at the last couple of games and there seems precious little joy around the club.
    We could easily get another dodgy owner if RD leaves and we have to hope we don't.
    You might be right in some cases, Roland has set this club back years, maybe even decades, however, there is a loyal and passionate fan base at the club that any future owner will be able to use to build on when they get up and running.

    Will the future owners be dodgy? Who knows, we can only speculate, but what I do know is they will be light years better than Roland and this regime, it will be impossible any other way.
  • Stig
    Stig Posts: 29,026
    I miss the old days before the diagnosed Meire's foot in mouth disease and quarantined her. She was so funny.
  • C4FC4L1f3
    C4FC4L1f3 Posts: 1,917
    Davo55 said:

    C4FC4L1f3 said:

    he wont remain!

    Apparently he said last week that he thinks he will have to sell Charlton as it is becoming unattainable.

    Some supporters are trying to get confirmation from our moles :)

    Eyes and ears everywhere!

    Very interesting. Appreciate you are trying to find out more but any idea where and in what context that comment was (allegedly) made?
    I have passed the info to Joe but will PM you.
  • charltonbob
    charltonbob Posts: 8,259
    edited April 2016
    luke1 said:

    I don't like Roland one bit, but is anyone else concerned about the long term affect CARD might help create? There is already talk among most fans about not renewing their season tickets, my worry is once these people are gone, it will be hard to get them back. I know the ultimate goal is to get Roland out of our club but i'm not sure staying away is the right way to go. The money our season tickets generate is not enough to hurt somebody of his wealth.. we are not really lining his pockets, he has lost loads!! The only thing you will affect is next season playing budget, it could be the case of keeping somebody like Lookman or selling him. Roland will NOT sell us as a league 1 team as he will lose too much.. our best hope of getting rid of him is to get behind the team next season in league one and help get us promoted, then it becomes possible for him to sell.

    I guess although i will hold Roland responsible if in 5 years i'm watching us in league 2 with 3000 people in the Valley, i will regret that we actively encouraged people to stay away. I think if you really want Roland out you are better off in the Valley on a Saturday afternoon letting him know rather than at home forgotten.

    The club itself let us know that at every game there were at least 3000 season ticket holders who weren't attending BEFORE CARD were even formed. Without CARD we would have been sailing down the river to oblivion. Although he may be a Billionaire or half Billionaire or whatever he's not exactly throwing money into the club & what he is putting in is repayable with interest. His miniscule budget is there as part of his experiment so any withholding of funds is enough to hurt him in this particular part of his business empire.
    If you honestly think he will fund a promotion chasing squad for next season then I think you're incredibly naive.