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The loyalty of Charlton supporters - questions from a Dutchman
paulbaaijens
Posts: 4
Hi guys,
It was the 21st of october, 2006. My Dutch dad took me to the Valley, I was just 16 years old and we were on holiday for the weekend.
I immediately fell in love with Charlton Ahtletic, even though they drew Watford (0-0) and that very game is still in my top 3 of baddest matches ever seen.
Clearly, as a Dutchman, I wanted to explore the rest of the city and it's football. In december 2013, I decided to come to London for five weeks to visit all the London football clubs in and to write about a book about that groundhopping journey, from a Dutch perspective. I can mention the book, if you like.
None of the clubs gave me that special feeling Charlton did. I came back a lot and saw a lot of home and away games over the last few years. The best of them was a 3-2 win against B&H on Boxing Day, 2013. Big Yann marked and I still feel sad he left. That's one of the big mistakes the Belgian owners made.
I was at Charlton v Brighton & Hove Albion two weeks ago. Offcourse I follow the CARD-movement with special interest. I love what they do, so I decided to volunteer. The least I can do when coming over from Holland. I helped Rich & Dom with filling up the big balloon with Roland's face on it. I helped handing out the placards and together with Dom, I carried the balloon throughout the protest. Man, that day was the best I've had in times.
Quite a long intro, I shall cut to the point. I'm writing a new book, a sequel on my first, about London football. Already wrote a lot about Roland, Katrien and their mismanagement. I can assure you: after having read this piece about Duchâtelet, a lot of Dutchmen will disguise this owner to. I'll try to get a lot of attention for the book and the Charlton-chapter so I can at least be a sort of overseas missionary to promote the CARD-movement. I still have an important question and Richard from the Supporters Trust told me to ask the question at this forum. I hope you can help me out and provide me with some good answers so I can make the chapter about Charlton more valuable as it already is.
I'm looking for an explanation for the loyalty of the Charlton supporter and the will to protest (like back in the days for the Back to the Valley-campaign). How is this possible? For a lot of Dutch people, football is just a sport. For you, it's your life, I suppose. I'm trying to explain this to the Dutch reader, I'm having difficulties myself to explain it. Could you please explain why Charlton is that important for you and why you're spending so much time in protesting and not accepting the managarial failures, in stead of just going to the game, watch it, and go home?
Thanks a lot guys for helping me out.
Regards,
Paul
It was the 21st of october, 2006. My Dutch dad took me to the Valley, I was just 16 years old and we were on holiday for the weekend.
I immediately fell in love with Charlton Ahtletic, even though they drew Watford (0-0) and that very game is still in my top 3 of baddest matches ever seen.
Clearly, as a Dutchman, I wanted to explore the rest of the city and it's football. In december 2013, I decided to come to London for five weeks to visit all the London football clubs in and to write about a book about that groundhopping journey, from a Dutch perspective. I can mention the book, if you like.
None of the clubs gave me that special feeling Charlton did. I came back a lot and saw a lot of home and away games over the last few years. The best of them was a 3-2 win against B&H on Boxing Day, 2013. Big Yann marked and I still feel sad he left. That's one of the big mistakes the Belgian owners made.
I was at Charlton v Brighton & Hove Albion two weeks ago. Offcourse I follow the CARD-movement with special interest. I love what they do, so I decided to volunteer. The least I can do when coming over from Holland. I helped Rich & Dom with filling up the big balloon with Roland's face on it. I helped handing out the placards and together with Dom, I carried the balloon throughout the protest. Man, that day was the best I've had in times.
Quite a long intro, I shall cut to the point. I'm writing a new book, a sequel on my first, about London football. Already wrote a lot about Roland, Katrien and their mismanagement. I can assure you: after having read this piece about Duchâtelet, a lot of Dutchmen will disguise this owner to. I'll try to get a lot of attention for the book and the Charlton-chapter so I can at least be a sort of overseas missionary to promote the CARD-movement. I still have an important question and Richard from the Supporters Trust told me to ask the question at this forum. I hope you can help me out and provide me with some good answers so I can make the chapter about Charlton more valuable as it already is.
I'm looking for an explanation for the loyalty of the Charlton supporter and the will to protest (like back in the days for the Back to the Valley-campaign). How is this possible? For a lot of Dutch people, football is just a sport. For you, it's your life, I suppose. I'm trying to explain this to the Dutch reader, I'm having difficulties myself to explain it. Could you please explain why Charlton is that important for you and why you're spending so much time in protesting and not accepting the managarial failures, in stead of just going to the game, watch it, and go home?
Thanks a lot guys for helping me out.
Regards,
Paul
65
Comments
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In my opinion, since my first match in 1981, it has always felt like Charlton were fighting an uphill battle. The Valley was being altered into an all-seater "prison" and the football was average if I'm honest. But you've experienced the buzz you get at The Valley and there was something special about standing on the East Terrace....you could hear the players communicate and sometimes they joked with the supporters nearby, I'm thinking of Terry Naylor, Colin Powell, Phil Warman etc.
Nearly going out of business in 1984, forced out of The Valley in 1985, the torture of sharing shitehurst....always felt like we were fighting for some kind of normality. Once we got home in December 1992, after standing in local political elections to aid our battle, we'd proved our worth as a group....nobody was going to mess with us again....until the last few years.....so we fight once more and we will win and we will rebuild OUR club.7 -
Paul
I am not going to explain "why" Charlton is so important, because I am sure that lots of others will do so far better and more eloquently than I can. What I will do is to give you a small anecdote that demonstrates that the feeling Charlton supporters have for their club is real, it is deep and it is heartfelt.
I the late 1980s and early 1990s, I worked in the area north of the River Thames, in the Isle of Dogs, in the place that has since become Canary Wharf. There were very few buildings, restaurants, pubs or shops in the area at that time. I would have lunch in my office staff canteen. But, every couple of weeks or so, I would take a packed lunch to work. And, at lunchtime, I would drive to the Blackwall Tunnel, go under the Thames and head for The Valley.
At that time, Charlton didn't play games at The Valley. They had been moved to Selhurst Park and then to Upton Park. But they were getting closer and closer to returning "home". So, I would park my car near the ground, just so I could eat my lunch there, while looking over the ground and see the work taking place. In a quiet few minutes, I would remember the games that I had seen with my Dad. And remember the games my grandfather told me about. And think about the games that I would eventually get to see in the future.
And I would also think about the stories my Dad would tell me - especially about the friend my Dad had who actually played for Charlton at the time. He would stand in the crowd cheering the team on, then meet his friend and get to talk to him about what it was like to play and how did he cope with having to mark Stanley Matthews.
That's my story. It just shows how important the club is to me and has been to four generations of my family. It just shows how important it was to me, just to be at the place I loved so much, soaking up the memories and thinking about what might be ahead.
But there is one more element to this story. Every single time I drove to the Valley, to spend a few minutes at lunchtime soaking up the memories, there were other people there, doing exactly the same thing. Every single time. I guess it's one of the reasons Charlton means to much to its fans: we can all see other fans for whom it's equally important.
Good luck with the book!38 -
For me I was taken first when I was 5 years old. Before I could really get much out of it. I went with my uncle and went to all home matches and some away. I soon got to know the players. Be happy when we won and sad when we lost. That was 55 years ago and winning still makes me happy and losing still spoils my day.
I like to think Charlton is not my life but I doubt there is an hour of any day where I don't at least have a fleeting thought about Charlton.4 -
My loyalty to Charlton can be explained by stupidity.10
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It's probably because weed isn't legal in the UK so we have to find other ways to destroy our minds !17
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Hi Paul
I think Charlton epitomises the sense of hope that we all feel throughout our lives -
The hope that we will avoid relegation;
The hope that we might get promoted;
The hope that we might beat our local rivals;
The hope for a good season;
The hope for a last minute equaliser;
The hope for a clean sheet;
The hope to see a great goal or a fantastic save;
The hope that we might get to see one of our good players stay with us despite interest from other clubs;
The hope that we might sign a player we have admired when playing against us.
Sadly, this regime have taken all of that away from us. And without hope, we have nothing. Except the ability to fight for our club. We have to fight, because we cannot be without hope.
Good luck with your book!6 -
Paul - Good luck with the book. If you give me an email address, I will write a longer piece that might help.
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I'd imagine this is a question that Charlton fans ask themselves often.
I first went with my grandfather during 1981/82 season and stood on the old East Terrace. I would hear stories of that same terrace holding thousands of people and of kids being passed to the front. I would hear of how my grandfathers mate left the famous Huddersfield game when Charlton were 4-1 down with 10 men and was dismayed to later learn we had won 7-6.
My grandfather and I shared the tourtuous bus journey to Palace for Saturday games. My friends and I then went to midweek games at Selhurst followed by regular attendance at Upton Park. The day Charlton returned to the Valley I had to go to a wedding and remember sulking throughout. Old Trafford in the cup, the Play-Off final and a couple of promotions...
You learn about the club's history. You then live part of the club's history.
When you follow a team like Charlton expectations of glory are low. You still begin each season with the hope that something special might happen and that you'll be there to witness it. That is what makes the current ownership so hard to tolerate. That hope appears to have gone.
Saturday will be a hard one for me. It could be my last for a while as I haven't renewed for the first time in 20 odd years. I'll be back when we get new owners or at the very least a change of approach from the current mob.
Good luck with the book.
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For many it is the attachment to the club from childhood and a feeling of a Charlton 'family' perhaps.
I left London for the west of the country in 1969 having supported Charlton since 1962 and I have never felt the desire to support another more successful club (as my wife would put it) but I think this is normal.
What seems to make Charlton special is the tribulations (the near extinctions) which have been borne with fortitude and never-say-die spirit, none more so than that demonstrated during the years in exile leading to the formation of a political party to get The Valley back - that I think is unique.
But all that is documented and I'm sure you have the recently revised Battle for The Valley book. Another good source would be back issues of Voice of the Valley where you will find countless articles from a variety of contributors writing about issues from the perspective of being a Charlton supporter - then there is the outstanding recent Charlie Connelly piece on this forum.
It is difficult to define but it sounds that you have touched upon it yourself when you said that Charlton had 'a special feeling' for you.
When it was announced that Charlton were going back to The Valley Mike Norris said:
"Its beyond football, this Charlton thing....our fans are real people and when you see what it means to them, its moving.
I agree, it's beyond football, its real and it's from the heart - it's a Charlton Thing.
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Yes, please let me also have your e-mail address.
Very best wishes with the book. You could end up with 20000 chapters just on Charlton alone !!
Groetjes - Alan1 -
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I first saw Charlton play a few days before my twelfth birthday. We were thumped 5 - 0 by Leicester and that was it, love at first sight. Why? Have been asking myself that for 46 years. Good luck with the book.1
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You lot are so gullible. It's obviously Roland or katrien trying to understand why we are so bothered about Charlton. I mean it's just a sport you weirdos.9
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Started off following Charlton with my uncle in 1979. Followed that with my mates home and away. Now it's me and my son. It's my club,my Charlton family. Will defend it to the end. It's almost like being part of a massive gang. A strong attachment and sense of belonging. That's why it's so hard with our current owner/regime. We are being discarded and trodden over. The fans are united and feel this as any family would. What happens when anyone feels mistreated and bullied. Uprising!!!!1
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It is very interesting that you say, 'For a lot of Dutch people football is just a sport'. If that is true of Belgians too it would explain a lot, including Katrien's 'weird' comment.1
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This mindset could be true. In France when the conversation came up about who I supported I would reply Charlton and then some said yeah but what top premier league team do you support? Alot of them supported their local team but also supported one of the big teams like psg, Marseille etc.Uboat said:It is very interesting that you say, 'For a lot of Dutch people football is just a sport'. If that is true of Belgians too it would explain a lot, including Katrien's 'weird' comment.
Then again I think of the ultras all over Europe including Holland where they seem so fanatical.0 -
Think of our support as a kind of tribalistic religion. I live 10,000 miles away from the Valley yet I still feel the same as I did as a child just 2 miles away.It's part of your very being. I can guarantee you that the distance doesn't dull the pain of a heavy defeat or indeed an unnecessary relegation. And it certainly hadn't stopped me from helping in our quest to rid ourselves of this useless regime.5
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I just go for the house music and to see the future stars of the premier league22
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Apart from family and friends , Charlton has been the most important thing in my life . It has been a constant for 50 years in my case , it has stayed with me on through school , university , marriage , having kids , they leave home. I have stood and sat with mostly the same people for all this time through the ( mostly) misery and sometimes ecstasy times. It is very painful that some of my friends have decided not to renew their season tickets next year for the first time in 30 years- it's heartbreaking really. It's not the relegation that depresses us , it's the fact that the current CEO and owner don't care about the club or the fans. Supporting a football team is tribal ( I loathe Crystal Palace, even though I am an educated successful businessman ) and it is like a religion in terms of its devotion. Winning is not essential but belonging is everything.11
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Thanks so far guys. Paulbaaijens@hotmail.com is my adress0
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Blood my Dutch friend, it is in my blood.
Charlton mirrors my life, a regrettably few high points so far, mostly dross, a fair amount of heartache and plenty of good swift kicks in the bollocks to keep me on track...2 -
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Its ingrained in us. My uncle started going in 1938. He took me in 1967. I'd never support anyone else. Our family has lived in and around the area for about 90 years now so it's part of the fabric of our lives.
The supporters reflect the people from this part of London + SE. It was never a fashionable place, factories, estates, offices but plenty of work in good years. Football (then) was a huge source of entertainment for the working people in a way that maybe it wasn't in other countries?
I think the will to protest started with the calamities of the 80's - the club going bust in 1984, the stupid row about ground safety and the move to Selhurst in 85 and the (initially) crass attitude of the council towards the move back to the Valley.2 -
I was brain washed into it by my father as was my brother. He in turn was brainwashed by his father and I am in the middle of brainwashing my 3 year old (the 1 year old is too young at the moment). My first game, I was 7 and to be honest I couldn't tell you who it was against. But I do remember pestering my dad to take me for a year or so before and I remember the early days, parking the other side of Charlton Park next to a small tree on the side of the road and having to run next to my Dad as we always turned up close to the wire (still do but my legs are longer now so i don't have to run to keep up with the fast walk!).
I remember the vast East Stand crumbling, I remember the grassy mound in the corner and I remember the last game at The Valley, running on and digging up some of the turf to take home.
I remember bumping into Keith Peacock at the Bromley Churchill Theatre and Dad asking us to get his autograph for him as we were kids and he couldn't bring himself to get it himself.
We followed at Selhurst and then on to Upton Park and at about 12/13 dad, my brother and I leafleted for the Valley Party then went to clear the pitch with the big bonfire. The Lennie years. Going to Junior Reds parties.
I remember the first game back and the glory of Walsh's goal, Steve Gritt appearing in the team for the first time in weeks and the porta cabins on the side of the pitch plus the feeling of pride at having achieved this as a group of fans.
I remember being at my Gran's house in Beckenham when we played Leeds away in the play offs and locking myself in the toilet I was so overwhelmed with excitement as Shirtliff scored his two goals.
I remember crying at Wembley when we lost the Full Members Cup Final !
I remember Curbs and Gritt taking over as joint managers and the glory years under Curbs, the play off final and walking up Wembley Way looking around at what seemed 9 Sunderland fans for every Charlton fan. Winning on penalties after the greatest game of football I ever saw and going to the pub to celebrate but having to go home after 1 pint because I was mentally exhausted.
I remember flying to Australia after the game and missing our first season up, although watching as many of the TV games as I could (including getting picked up by the Police in Melbourne who did not believe a young lad in a hoodie and a backpack was off to a casino at 5am when it was dark to watch a soccer game!) Then getting home to England in time for the last game of our Championship winning season away at West Brom I think and going along to celebrate.
I remember the glory years, the full Valley, the noise and the feeling it would never change, then the handball decision against Fulham and back to the Championship...I try to forget the next two years but I remember the feeling of Chris Powell coming home as manager, of going to more games in one season than I have ever done before or since when we were in League One, including THAT game v Yeovil, smuggling a small bottle of Champayne in to share with my small group who sit together when we won the title and being close to tears as Powelly gave his end of season talk on the pitch.
I remember taking my boy to an U21 game at The Valley when he was 2 for his first ever trip and him getting told off by a steward for going under some tape into seating that he shouldn't be in.
I remember this season that the club did not feel it was worth giving my Dad a shout out at half time on his 70th birthday, I remember them serving sausage rolls to my Jewish guests when I had paid £200 per ticket for Corporate Hospitality seats, I remember hearing KM speak at Bromley Addicks last year and not being impressed, I remember the lies and rank bad decisions of this regime.
Through all the bad seasons we have had recently I have continued to go, partly out of habit and partly because I enjoy the company of those I go with. This season I have enjoyed the protests more than the football.
Not sure that answers your question but the short answer I guess is that the beauty of Charlton is you never know what is going to happen next. Promotions, Relegations, Fans on the board, lunatics on the board, greatest game at Wembley, almost going bust, a political party, an amazing award winning Community Trust. Anyone can "support" a big team they never go to watch and have no emotional attachment to but they won't experience the highs of football the same way we will.13 -
I'm finding it impossible to put into words but supporting Charlton is so important to me.
It's not about winning, it's not about glory so why bother? I don't know. It's family, it's history it's an almost constant struggle for normality. But at least it is real.
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That was a good read Athletico Charlton. Great memories and sincere words. "Belonging" was mentioned earlier and that, perhaps, identifies the most powerful ingredient being a Charlton fan. Results are important and they will define your weekend but the club you fall in love with remains a huge part of your being and your identity throughout life.0
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Because (according to our ex-manager Lennie Lawrence....and I paraphrase rather than quote him accurately).... "Charlton became not so much a club, as a Cause".
The 'Cause' fitted perfectly into the years of my interest and active support (commencing in the 1980/81 promotion season).
I like a Cause. I like an 'Underdog'. I like a challenge. I like to beat the odds and succeed not with loud, boastful noise, but with quiet endeavour and with independence of thought.
I like....CAFC. It led by example and people noticed. I await, with hope, the day that that spirit may be recovered.7 -
I have a list of Uncles who followed Charlton in the 1920s my Dad followed in the 40's, 50's. 60's and took me too in the 70's 80's and 90's (he is retired) both my sons and daughter have been post Premier League and I have been working on other non Charlton parts of the family.
I can't stand the way things are. I hate the duchatelet ... .... them.1 -
This question would have been easier to answer prior to 3 years ago.
The root cause for caring so much about something like this ...
Maybe addiction?
That feeling I used to have when Charlton scored in a match...when Charlton got 3 points after the full time whistle was blown. You cannot describe it. It's a sudden rush of utter happiness.
It's the same opposite thing for when we lose but you are addicted to the rare times when Charlton succeed so you just relentlessly keep coming back...
The last time I genuinely felt happy watching Charlton was Boxing Day 2014 against Cardiff when things were going shit for us and JBG scored a stunning equalisor to make it 1-1. The valley erupted and it felt like a win.
There is what I like to call "The real Charlton"
The real Charlton is not currently present so we long for it to return.
The reason or root cause I, as a kid started supporting Charlton and religiously non stop talked about the club to the point where my dad thought I was a bit weird, the root cause was because....
This club was local. (I lived in plumstead at the time) so I was supporting my local team and could be proud by that fact.
This club was more affordable in comparison to other big clubs for fans so a good starting point to get into it.
The most important thing was that this club was and still is SPECIAL, it's largely different from any other club...special in what way? Hmmm, there is no direct word for it, it's difficult to describe.
It's the people. The players are/were incredibly like-able, even if not the most naturally gifted.
And...
We have admirable history. We are a small club that plays the role of the underdog, within the large world of football.
The underdog is one you can associate yourself with and simply, fall in love with.
It's simply a competitive drive and you commit yourself to the cause. Once that's locked in, you don't go back.
That's my version of it.
Good luck with your book.1 -
I can tell you right now.
If my dad took me west ham or spurs when I was a kid, I wouldn't have cared for it and would and could not naturally warm to those clubs and support them. I don't massively dis-like but...
It just wouldn't happen. Same with palace and millwall.
Charlton chose me. I didn't choose them.0 -
JessieJessieAddick said:What a great thread. I had tears in my eyes reading through it. One of the best ever on CL. It shows once again why this club is so special: it has the greatest fans in the whole world. It's been an extremely difficult year for all of us but I have faith in us. RD is killing our club but the fans won't let him succeed. I don't feel optimistic about our immediate future but RD will let go, eventually. He won't be here for ever. But we will.
Good luck with the book Paul.
I know you live far away but I hope you get yourself to a game at some point. I'd love to hear it. Your attendance would and should bee bigger news and mean alot more to the charlton fanbase then if Roland the ratbag ever shows his face.
Even if it's in league one I'd suggest a league away game at the moment as it will simply just be a better more lively experience. There maybe some good'uns next season. Hopefully Portsmouth will get promotion. Wimbledon would also be decent but they are both ifs.
Gillingham is local to the valley but it's just a bit depressing to think about...2 -
As a younger fan I don't have the same memories as many on here. I was taken to my first game at the age of 4 in 1999 and that was that.
There is certainly something special about Charlton and it is hard to put into words. Charlton is a living, breathing thing. It binds people together with a sense of belonging, a common cause. That sense of history is huge as well, I didn't live through many of the events mentioned but they still mean a huge amount to me. The pride at what the fans of this club achieved, and what this small club from South East London has done is just huge.
There is also that sense of family, the way that at a Charlton game I will always end up speaking to complete strangers (something someone with my personality would never normally do) but because we are all linked by Charlton it is a completely normal thing to do. And nothing beats that last minute winner feeling, when you are hugging someone you barely know and probably wouldn't even speak to if you met outside of football.
As I said it's hard to put it into words but this captures some of what it means to me.3
