It just seems sooo much agg to have to have your wits about you pissed up is not my idea of fun I know previously mates who got grief after the game from old bill in France and shepherded on to transport they didn't want Feel for the normal punters who just wanna see footy have a beer and a laugh and can get caught up amongst all that shit Went to Japan 2002 cos it was far enough away to stop most of the knobheads going out there
My only England away game (only because I was in Japan at the time) was the '02 Quarter Final v Brazil. Got off the bullet train to get the local one to the stadium, it was what I imagine it would be like on the tube en route to a West Ham v Millwall match. No violence as such but more racism and foul language than I could stomach, there were still plenty of English knobheads at that game.
We land in Marseille early tomorrow morning, was thinking about hanging around and maybe seeing if we could get tickets but decided to go to Nice instead as there's clearly going to be so much aggro in Marseille.
I highly doubt it was the England fans that "started it" but it always ends the same way, and a (sizeable) minority of England fans see it as some sort of re-enactment of World War Two to make up for the lack of excitement in their own lives back home.
Is probably just the "Hold me Back" generation that have seen the videos of what happened in '98 and have tried to create the same sort of atmosphere as last time (of course the French havent helped by getting involved themselves).
One of the most shameful moments I've felt supporting Charlton was on the way to an away match once...
Coach stopped at Watford Gap Services heading North by a Leeds coach (Guess they've got supporters clubs in the South which take them to home games), some kid got off our coach in front of me, walked past these Leeds fans and said: Always look on the Turk side of life
One of the Leeds fans heard him and shouted after him... the Charlton kid completely ignored him and sped up, once he was with his mates at the doors he stopped and looked back, saw he hadnt been followed by the Leeds fans and was promptly congratulated by his little friends.
Singing Isis where r u and then bleating when attacked - would never bother with an England tournament - if I did I would b nowhere near the knob heads coz this is what happens
Hang on...singing a song about ISIS deserves an attack?
Are you saying people out there are pro-ISIS and defending the ISIS name by attacking England fans?
Worth looking at @Geoff_Pearson's timeline in Twitter for one perspective on events in Marseille overnight.
Interesting thanks for that thanks.
For those not on Twitter this is Geoff Pearson's bio...
Geoff Pearson @Geoff_Pearson Senior Lecturer in Criminal Law at Manchester University. Researcher & Writer on Sports Law, Football Crowds, 'Hooliganism', Policing and Ethnography.
He describes it as a minor row between a few England fans and ticket touts, that then escalated to a row with local gangs. He said that police tear gassed both lots and only about three objects were thrown at the police. He also fails to mention the ISIS chants, so they must have been a very small minority doing them.
He also points out the French police tear gassed England fans earlier in the day as they wondered where to go, as a way of dispersing them when there was no hint of trouble. Whilst England fans are no angels our media love to denigrate them to animals at every opportunity.
Singing Isis where r u and then bleating when attacked - would never bother with an England tournament - if I did I would b nowhere near the knob heads coz this is what happens
Hang on...singing a song about ISIS deserves an attack?
Are you saying people out there are pro-ISIS and defending the ISIS name by attacking England fans?
Maybe not pro ISIS, but one third of the local population is Muslim and it also represents the largest Muslim population in any western world city. It follows therefore, that there might be more than a few local ISIS "supporters".
Singing Isis where r u and then bleating when attacked - would never bother with an England tournament - if I did I would b nowhere near the knob heads coz this is what happens
Hang on...singing a song about ISIS deserves an attack?
Are you saying people out there are pro-ISIS and defending the ISIS name by attacking England fans?
Maybe not pro ISIS, but one third of the local population is Muslim and it also represents the largest Muslim population in any western world city. It follows therefore, that there might be more than a few local ISIS "supporters".
Sounds like the English are doing some good counter terrorism work then. Police should just round up all the locals who reacted and lock 'em up!
Singing Isis where r u and then bleating when attacked - would never bother with an England tournament - if I did I would b nowhere near the knob heads coz this is what happens
Hang on...singing a song about ISIS deserves an attack?
Are you saying people out there are pro-ISIS and defending the ISIS name by attacking England fans?
Maybe not pro ISIS, but one third of the local population is Muslim and it also represents the largest Muslim population in any western world city. It follows therefore, that there might be more than a few local ISIS "supporters".
But ISIS were responsible for the Paris atrocities and also for plans to attack the England and Russia fans during their brief stay in Marseilles, so you would think the vast majority of local Muslims would not be offended by anti ISIS chanting by idiots. I don't care what supporters of terror think.
Yet I wouldn't think any political or religious chanting is ideal though.
So - basically: England fans getting pissed and rowing with locals Coppers acting like and throwing their weight around Locals being shitbags Hooligan apologist commenting on it Daily Mail sensationalising it
Just waiting for The Society Of Black Lawyers to pipe up and we'll win at International Football Tournament Hooligan Bingo
Singing Isis where r u and then bleating when attacked - would never bother with an England tournament - if I did I would b nowhere near the knob heads coz this is what happens
Hang on...singing a song about ISIS deserves an attack?
Are you saying people out there are pro-ISIS and defending the ISIS name by attacking England fans?
Maybe not pro ISIS, but one third of the local population is Muslim and it also represents the largest Muslim population in any western world city. It follows therefore, that there might be more than a few local ISIS "supporters".
But ISIS were responsible for the Paris atrocities and also for plans to attack the England and Russia fans during their brief stay in Marseilles, so you would think the vast majority of local Muslims would not be offended by anti ISIS chanting by idiots. I don't care what supporters of terror think.
Yet I wouldn't think any political or religious chanting is ideal though.
I think the people who are upset by the chants aren't the pro-ISIS supporters but the large amount of Muslim people in the area who may feel the chants are directed towards them. Whenever there's a terrorist attack the number of hate crimes against Muslims - almost always the ones who didn't commit any atrocities - goes up exponentially. I wouldn't be too cheerful if a bunch of foreign football fans rolled up and started singing about a bunch of murderers who the media are constantly trying to associate me with
Most of you know I am a very liberally minded lefty type, I have no problem with Muslims whatsoever. But if I were a moderate Muslim in Marseilles for the next couple of days I would simply avoid the areas where the football fans are - why go along mob handed to a bar (when you don't drink) in order to be offended? If you know you are the type that will fly off the handle if "provoked", stay away.
Most of you know I am a very liberally minded lefty type, I have no problem with Muslims whatsoever. But if I were a moderate Muslim in Marseilles for the next couple of days I would simply avoid the areas where the football fans are - why go along mob handed to a bar (when you don't drink) in order to be offended? If you know you are the type that will fly off the handle if "provoked", stay away.
Singing Isis where r u and then bleating when attacked - would never bother with an England tournament - if I did I would b nowhere near the knob heads coz this is what happens
Hang on...singing a song about ISIS deserves an attack?
Are you saying people out there are pro-ISIS and defending the ISIS name by attacking England fans?
Maybe not pro ISIS, but one third of the local population is Muslim and it also represents the largest Muslim population in any western world city. It follows therefore, that there might be more than a few local ISIS "supporters".
Not only that but lets be honest and serious lads, it was obviously sung because of the area being a large Muslim area and so do you not think some of the local muslims may have taken it as the English supporters associating them with being ISIS because they're muslim? I don't think for one minute those songs led to the fighting but it obviously doesn't help England fans in a situation where it appeared they were attacked.
Most of you know I am a very liberally minded lefty type, I have no problem with Muslims whatsoever. But if I were a moderate Muslim in Marseilles for the next couple of days I would simply avoid the areas where the football fans are - why go along mob handed to a bar (when you don't drink) in order to be offended? If you know you are the type that will fly off the handle if "provoked", stay away.
I could be mistaken but nowhere in that article does it say it was Muslims attacking the English fans. It says the French Ultras attacked after a Muslim man was abused - which I'll take with a pinch of salt until I hear it from somewhere other than the Daily Mail. Sounds to me like the French fans looking for a scrap waited for an excuse, which they got. It would have happened anyway, but it doesn't exactly give English fans the moral high ground to be chanting about a bunch of murdering psychopaths before a football tournament.
Marseille is a sh1thole - always has been - also 'home' to the French Foreign Legion in Aubagne which is effectively a suburb of Marseille. #justsaying
Singing Isis where r u and then bleating when attacked - would never bother with an England tournament - if I did I would b nowhere near the knob heads coz this is what happens
Hang on...singing a song about ISIS deserves an attack?
Are you saying people out there are pro-ISIS and defending the ISIS name by attacking England fans?
Maybe not pro ISIS, but one third of the local population is Muslim and it also represents the largest Muslim population in any western world city. It follows therefore, that there might be more than a few local ISIS "supporters".
But ISIS were responsible for the Paris atrocities and also for plans to attack the England and Russia fans during their brief stay in Marseilles, so you would think the vast majority of local Muslims would not be offended by anti ISIS chanting by idiots. I don't care what supporters of terror think.
Yet I wouldn't think any political or religious chanting is ideal though.
I think the people who are upset by the chants aren't the pro-ISIS supporters but the large amount of Muslim people in the area who may feel the chants are directed towards them. Whenever there's a terrorist attack the number of hate crimes against Muslims - almost always the ones who didn't commit any atrocities - goes up exponentially. I wouldn't be too cheerful if a bunch of foreign football fans rolled up and started singing about a bunch of murderers who the media are constantly trying to associate me with
Maybe I find that hard to understand, as I see ISIS as idiots that happen to be Muslim extremists. Idiots happen everywhere that lot just happen to be Muslims.
Embarrassing. No other word for it. No excuses for it. Not just the brilliant white baby booties worn by grown men! To help me get some perspective I think I will spend a bit of time reading through the righteous posts on the latest thread about Millwall hooliganism and the posts rejecting any Millwall fans who posted and claimed it was a minority before I get back to this thread.
England fans are an easy target. The press feed off of it. What they fail to show is the local tossers going up to the England boys and goading them when they are simply having a booze and sing song.
Remember Portugal in the Euro's. England had over 100,000 at one point out there. The only bit of trouble the tabloids picked up on was a holiday hot spot where a few blokes got nicked for having a fight but was deemed as football hooliganism even though it was 300 miles away.
If people genuinely think the locals only attacked cos of that song (which most probably didn't hear anyway) then I give up.
You realise think kind of thing (locals attaching us) happens at lots of England away games and is never ever reported..... Until England are in big numbers at a tournament and react.
If people genuinely think the locals only attacked cos of that song (which most probably didn't hear anyway) then I give up.
You realise think kind of thing (locals attaching us) happens at lots of England away games and is never ever reported..... Until England are in big numbers at a tournament and react.
Think poor Millwall fans have the same problems whenever they travel to away games.
If people genuinely think the locals only attacked cos of that song (which most probably didn't hear anyway) then I give up.
You realise think kind of thing (locals attaching us) happens at lots of England away games and is never ever reported..... Until England are in big numbers at a tournament and react.
Not good. The thing that would worry me as a normal fan is getting home after a match/night when in smaller numbers. Take care out there fellow Addicks.
Or a day or two later when most English have left. Often happens. We'll be keeping our heads down on Mon certinally.
If people genuinely think the locals only attacked cos of that song (which most probably didn't hear anyway) then I give up.
You realise think kind of thing (locals attaching us) happens at lots of England away games and is never ever reported..... Until England are in big numbers at a tournament and react.
Think poor Millwall fans have the same problems whenever they travel to away games.
It was probably sung tongue in cheek cos of the rumours / threats that they would target this game. Simple as that.
Germany 06 there was hardly any trouble. I'm sure there won't be in Lyon just like in Euro 2000 there wasn't at the games in Holland.
Sometimes believe it or not it comes down to the local population and local police and we all knew what Marseille would hold in both regards.
Always have great respect for your posts on this stuff, but wasn't there trouble in Stuttgart? Or was it a case of media hype? Were you there for that one?
Comments
I highly doubt it was the England fans that "started it" but it always ends the same way, and a (sizeable) minority of England fans see it as some sort of re-enactment of World War Two to make up for the lack of excitement in their own lives back home.
One of the most shameful moments I've felt supporting Charlton was on the way to an away match once...
Coach stopped at Watford Gap Services heading North by a Leeds coach (Guess they've got supporters clubs in the South which take them to home games), some kid got off our coach in front of me, walked past these Leeds fans and said: Always look on the Turk side of life
One of the Leeds fans heard him and shouted after him... the Charlton kid completely ignored him and sped up, once he was with his mates at the doors he stopped and looked back, saw he hadnt been followed by the Leeds fans and was promptly congratulated by his little friends.
Are you saying people out there are pro-ISIS and defending the ISIS name by attacking England fans?
For those not on Twitter this is Geoff Pearson's bio...
Geoff Pearson
@Geoff_Pearson
Senior Lecturer in Criminal Law at Manchester University. Researcher & Writer on Sports Law, Football Crowds, 'Hooliganism', Policing and Ethnography.
He describes it as a minor row between a few England fans and ticket touts, that then escalated to a row with local gangs. He said that police tear gassed both lots and only about three objects were thrown at the police. He also fails to mention the ISIS chants, so they must have been a very small minority doing them.
He also points out the French police tear gassed England fans earlier in the day as they wondered where to go, as a way of dispersing them when there was no hint of trouble. Whilst England fans are no angels our media love to denigrate them to animals at every opportunity.
Yet I wouldn't think any political or religious chanting is ideal though.
England fans getting pissed and rowing with locals
Coppers acting like and throwing their weight around
Locals being shitbags
Hooligan apologist commenting on it
Daily Mail sensationalising it
Just waiting for The Society Of Black Lawyers to pipe up and we'll win at International Football Tournament Hooligan Bingo
#justsaying
Germany 06 there was hardly any trouble. I'm sure there won't be in Lyon just like in Euro 2000 there wasn't at the games in Holland.
Sometimes believe it or not it comes down to the local population and local police and we all knew what Marseille would hold in both regards.
I always thought the Stade Velodrome was one of the most intimidating Stadiums to go to in France? (Unless your a Marseille fan)
Remember Portugal in the Euro's. England had over 100,000 at one point out there. The only bit of trouble the tabloids picked up on was a holiday hot spot where a few blokes got nicked for having a fight but was deemed as football hooliganism even though it was 300 miles away.
You realise think kind of thing (locals attaching us) happens at lots of England away games and is never ever reported..... Until England are in big numbers at a tournament and react.