It hasn't let me down I'm an Old Etonian Banker with a penchant for hunting and buggery.
Of course I'm really worried......Jeremy has made Labour hugely more popular and electable, I think Roland would have more chance of being elected if he stood.
13 years of Labour They didn't lie about mass immigration They didn't cover up Rotherham They never shut a hospital They didn't stop PFI They didn't re privatise ANY thing They didn't put us into two wars They didn't sell off our gold reserves They didn't cut pensions
Still no worries you have a Socialist in charge and its NEVER their fault and always someone else's money
It hasn't let me down I'm an Old Etonian Banker with a penchant for hunting and buggery.
Of course I'm really worried......Jeremy has made Labour hugely more popular and electable, I think Roland would have more chance of being elected if he stood.
Okay, I'll bite. What are the uncompetitive practises in energy, banking and insurance?
Offgen calculate that the big 6 have overcharged customers billons and demanded for years that prices are reduced. CMA ditto. They (each with budgets of nearly £200m) are ignored. Banking. PPI, LIBOR etc. But the biggest show is that these industries no longer advertise to any extent, so how are they competing for business? This allows them to get away with shocking customer service, often outsourced abroad, reducing employment opportunities or advancement for our kids and allows senior management to pay themselves more. The gap between rich and poor grows further. Is this the society you want?
It hasn't let me down I'm an Old Etonian Banker with a penchant for hunting and buggery.
Of course I'm really worried......Jeremy has made Labour hugely more popular and electable, I think Roland would have more chance of being elected if he stood.
Labour racks up the debt, Tories have to sort it out and make themselves very unpopular in the process, Labor gets re elected, round and round it goes. Then all of a sudden growth stops, debts are too big and impossible to pay down. Exactly the same situation here. Half a trillion of debt left behind by Labor, Libs get elected promising to cut the debt, but debt only increases. But with little growth and a billion dollar a month interest bill on Labors debt, it becomes a hopeless situation. Best solution, manage the economy sensibly in the first place and don't live beyond your means.
Labour racks up the debt, Tories have to sort it out and make themselves very unpopular in the process, Labor gets re elected, round and round it goes. Then all of a sudden growth stops, debts are too big and impossible to pay down. Exactly the same situation here. Half a trillion of debt left behind by Labor, Libs get elected promising to cut the debt, but debt only increases. But with little growth and a billion dollar a month interest bill on Labors debt, it becomes a hopeless situation. Best solution, manage the economy sensibly in the first place and don't live beyond your means.
National debt increased in 2008 partly due to the world financial crisis and baling out the banks. The tories rose to power on a ticket of reducing borrowing but slashed corporation tax and top rate income tax while turning a blind eye to tax evasion. Osbourne has abandoned his aim of eliminating the tax deficit by 2020 after initially promising to do so by 2015.
Unsurprising since the national debt has more than doubled to £1.5 trillion and rising. Lucky Labour weren't in power the last two terms or we'd really be fcuked!
When I was growing up labour were the working class party.
Now it seems they're not, they're losing working class voters to UKIP and even the Tories, so for me, Labour have lost identity with its voters and therefore let Britain down.
Labour racks up the debt, Tories have to sort it out and make themselves very unpopular in the process, Labor gets re elected, round and round it goes. Then all of a sudden growth stops, debts are too big and impossible to pay down. Exactly the same situation here. Half a trillion of debt left behind by Labor, Libs get elected promising to cut the debt, but debt only increases. But with little growth and a billion dollar a month interest bill on Labors debt, it becomes a hopeless situation. Best solution, manage the economy sensibly in the first place and don't live beyond your means.
It's a widely held opinion and Labour's failure to counter it effectively probably cost them the last two elections.
However, my understanding is the stats don't back up your view that Labour overspent only for the Tories to come in and sort it out. GDP/debt ratios under Brown were not historically excessive at all (IIRC they were not far off those under Thatcher at one point) and only started spiking once the banking crisis took hold. In terms of getting that ratio under control and of course the total public debt racked up, far from sorting it out, Osborne has been a disaster.
At the same time our public services have been cut year on year thereby creating an alternative cycle to that you're proposing. In that an incoming Labour government then finds itself needing to invest/borrow in order to improve/rebuild those same public services. And we go around again...
In every way imaginable. And the Labour party has let us down by not being in a position to do anything about it. Time for a change - We need to let both these parties die and find something better.
Labour racks up the debt, Tories have to sort it out and make themselves very unpopular in the process, Labor gets re elected, round and round it goes. Then all of a sudden growth stops, debts are too big and impossible to pay down. Exactly the same situation here. Half a trillion of debt left behind by Labor, Libs get elected promising to cut the debt, but debt only increases. But with little growth and a billion dollar a month interest bill on Labors debt, it becomes a hopeless situation. Best solution, manage the economy sensibly in the first place and don't live beyond your means.
Could you point me in the direction of the evidence that supports your "Tories have to sort it out" assumption. Please make it something that looks at all debt (including rising personal debt) not just the indicator they want you to see.
When I was growing up labour were the working class party.
Now it seems they're not, they're losing working class voters to UKIP and even the Tories, so for me, Labour have lost identity with its voters and therefore let Britain down.
When I was growing up labour were the working class party.
Now it seems they're not, they're losing working class voters to UKIP and even the Tories, so for me, Labour have lost identity with its voters and therefore let Britain down.
1. Brexit vote 2. Lack of planning on post Brexit vote 3. Having been voted in, on Labour financial mis-management (post 2008 banking scandal) have doubled national debt 4. Purport to support the market economy but turn a blind eye to uncompetitive practises. (Energy, banking, insurance etc) No ads. 5. Do nothing to address the growing gap between rich and poor. 6. Actively encourage tax evasion 7. Allow foreign domination of our media 8. Promote tax breaks for the rich 9. Allow foreign criminals to invest in our country with no probing. 10. Ignore poor whole northern communities lack of oportunties. 11. Elitist and public schoolboy mentality 12. Boris, Osbourne, Jeremy Hunt. 13. Zero hours contracts, pension deficits despite share dividends, unchallengable Exec packages, rewards for failure. 14.Lack of action on CT evasion, including tax deals 15.NHS propose RENEGING on contracts with junior doctors
Over to you Fiiish - Corbyn not responsible for any of the above.
Creating lists of things to whinge about seems to be the modern socialist way. I didn't hear anyone complaining about the democratic idea of an EU referendum before the event. Only after it went the way they didn't want. It's a shame because Jeremy's educated, largely London based, socialists have really let down the traditional Labour working class people. That's why they all voted out and many are backing UKIP. I see no real recognition of this even now though from within the party.
Labour racks up the debt, Tories have to sort it out and make themselves very unpopular in the process, Labor gets re elected, round and round it goes. Then all of a sudden growth stops, debts are too big and impossible to pay down. Exactly the same situation here. Half a trillion of debt left behind by Labor, Libs get elected promising to cut the debt, but debt only increases. But with little growth and a billion dollar a month interest bill on Labors debt, it becomes a hopeless situation. Best solution, manage the economy sensibly in the first place and don't live beyond your means.
We also have a 'Tory' war criminal in John Howard. Thank goodness Labour were in power when the global financial crisis happened, as we escaped the horrendous austerity measures used by some other countries.
When I was growing up labour were the working class party.
Now it seems they're not, they're losing working class voters to UKIP and even the Tories, so for me, Labour have lost identity with its voters and therefore let Britain down.
When I was growing up labour were the working class party.
Now it seems they're not, they're losing working class voters to UKIP and even the Tories, so for me, Labour have lost identity with its voters and therefore let Britain down.
1. Brexit vote 2. Lack of planning on post Brexit vote 3. Having been voted in, on Labour financial mis-management (post 2008 banking scandal) have doubled national debt 4. Purport to support the market economy but turn a blind eye to uncompetitive practises. (Energy, banking, insurance etc) No ads. 5. Do nothing to address the growing gap between rich and poor. 6. Actively encourage tax evasion 7. Allow foreign domination of our media 8. Promote tax breaks for the rich 9. Allow foreign criminals to invest in our country with no probing. 10. Ignore poor whole northern communities lack of oportunties. 11. Elitist and public schoolboy mentality 12. Boris, Osbourne, Jeremy Hunt. 13. Zero hours contracts, pension deficits despite share dividends, unchallengable Exec packages, rewards for failure. 14.Lack of action on CT evasion, including tax deals 15.NHS propose RENEGING on contracts with junior doctors
Over to you Fiiish - Corbyn not responsible for any of the above.
Creating lists of things to whinge about seems to be the modern socialist way. I didn't hear anyone complaining about the democratic idea of an EU referendum before the event. Only after it went the way they didn't want. It's a shame because Jeremy's educated, largely London based, socialists have really let down the traditional Labour working class people. That's why they all voted out and many are backing UKIP. I see no real recognition of this even now though from within the party.
THIS, rather than work out why people vote UKIP instead now, many people I know have done this, they'd rather palm them off as bigots.
1. Brexit vote -Was it only the Tories that voted on this..?? 2. Lack of planning on post Brexit vote - No one thought that the majority would vote out 3. Having been voted in, on Labour financial mis-management (post 2008 banking scandal) have doubled national debt - So labour mis-managed funds? 4. Purport to support the market economy but turn a blind eye to uncompetitive practises. (Energy, banking, insurance etc) No ads. - labour sold many companies, as did the Tories 5. Do nothing to address the growing gap between rich and poor. - Blair done well addressing that 6. Actively encourage tax evasion - This has been going on years, even with Labour in power 7. Allow foreign domination of our media - Didn't Blair strike a deal with Murdoch over VAT..?? 8. Promote tax breaks for the rich - This has been going on years, even with Labour in power 9. Allow foreign criminals to invest in our country with no probing. - This has been going on years, even with Labour in power 10. Ignore poor whole northern communities lack of oportunties. - This has been going on years, even with Labour in power 11. Elitist and public schoolboy mentality - Agree with you on this, but when you have Diane Abott sending her child to private school it stinks a bit and let's not forget Kinnock, or should we say Lord Kinnock 12. Boris, Osbourne, Jeremy Hunt. - Diane Abott, Corbyn, etc, etc 13. Zero hours contracts, pension deficits despite share dividends, unchallengable Exec packages, rewards for failure. - This has been going on years, even with Labour in power 14.Lack of action on CT evasion, including tax deals - This has been going on years, even with Labour in power 15.NHS propose RENEGING on contracts with junior doctors - Agree with you on this
Believe it or not I don't like this Tory mob at all, but when labour have weak people at the helm it doesn't help does it?
When I was growing up labour were the working class party.
Now it seems they're not, they're losing working class voters to UKIP and even the Tories, so for me, Labour have lost identity with its voters and therefore let Britain down.
When I was growing up labour were the working class party.
Now it seems they're not, they're losing working class voters to UKIP and even the Tories, so for me, Labour have lost identity with its voters and therefore let Britain down.
1. Brexit vote 2. Lack of planning on post Brexit vote 3. Having been voted in, on Labour financial mis-management (post 2008 banking scandal) have doubled national debt 4. Purport to support the market economy but turn a blind eye to uncompetitive practises. (Energy, banking, insurance etc) No ads. 5. Do nothing to address the growing gap between rich and poor. 6. Actively encourage tax evasion 7. Allow foreign domination of our media 8. Promote tax breaks for the rich 9. Allow foreign criminals to invest in our country with no probing. 10. Ignore poor whole northern communities lack of oportunties. 11. Elitist and public schoolboy mentality 12. Boris, Osbourne, Jeremy Hunt. 13. Zero hours contracts, pension deficits despite share dividends, unchallengable Exec packages, rewards for failure. 14.Lack of action on CT evasion, including tax deals 15.NHS propose RENEGING on contracts with junior doctors
Over to you Fiiish - Corbyn not responsible for any of the above.
Creating lists of things to whinge about seems to be the modern socialist way. I didn't hear anyone complaining about the democratic idea of an EU referendum before the event. Only after it went the way they didn't want. It's a shame because Jeremy's educated, largely London based, socialists have really let down the traditional Labour working class people. That's why they all voted out and many are backing UKIP. I see no real recognition of this even now though from within the party.
Have a look at Corbyn at the last PMQ's. There is clear recognition...maybe not 'real' enough for your taste however. There were plenty who said we shouldn't have a referendum, again not as many as might impress you, but they were out there all right.
Creating lists of things to whinge about seems to be the modern socialist way. I didn't hear anyone complaining about the democratic idea of an EU referendum before the event. Only after it went the way they didn't want. It's a shame because Jeremy's educated, largely London based, socialists have really let down the traditional Labour working class people. That's why they all voted out and many are backing UKIP. I see no real recognition of this even now though from within the party.
There was plenty of opposition to holding a referendum from right across the political spectrum. Interestingly enough even from within UKIP, I notice they've piped down a bit on that one now.
No one complained about the referendum? You must rely solely on the Mail or Sun for your political insights!
Not at all. If you read my comments, you will see I think it's sad that the Labour Party is in disarray with no one respecting working class labour voters of old. Yes there was opposition to the referendum beforehand but there was also a general complacency that Remain would win. Marching in the streets now at the the outcome I find now quite ridiculous. Respect the democratic decision, stop whinging, and let's work for a good outcome.
No one complained about the referendum? You must rely solely on the Mail or Sun for your political insights!
Not at all. If you read my comments, you will see I think it's sad that the Labour Party is in disarray with no one respecting working class labour voters of old. Yes there was opposition to the referendum beforehand but there was also a general complacency that Remain would win. Marching in the streets now at the the outcome I find now quite ridiculous. Respect the democratic decision, stop whinging, and let's work for a good outcome.
When you say respect the decision I agree (although a general election might change things), but when you say let's work for a good outcome it rings hollow when leaders of the leave campaign have rapidly bogged off and left remainers to do the work.
No one complained about the referendum? You must rely solely on the Mail or Sun for your political insights!
Not at all. If you read my comments, you will see I think it's sad that the Labour Party is in disarray with no one respecting working class labour voters of old. Yes there was opposition to the referendum beforehand but there was also a general complacency that Remain would win. Marching in the streets now at the the outcome I find now quite ridiculous. Respect the democratic decision, stop whinging, and let's work for a good outcome.
You also said "I didn't hear anyone complaining about the democratic idea of an EU referendum before the event", and now you say "Yes there was opposition to the referendum". Saying things that contradict what you previously said seems to be the modern Tory way...
The sad fact is that our current predicament was caused by Labour voters opposing immigration because they felt that the strain on local resources was due to (mainly) working immigrants rather than the Tories failing to invest in services and infrastructure, with Labour also being culpable.
Comments
Wearing blue - Millsmall/ Tory
Turning blue - cold or dead.
Blue is the problem
And then there were 2..
The Tories have screwed up.
The Labour Party have screwed up.
Score Draw.
Unsurprising since the national debt has more than doubled to £1.5 trillion and rising. Lucky Labour weren't in power the last two terms or we'd really be fcuked!
Now it seems they're not, they're losing working class voters to UKIP and even the Tories, so for me, Labour have lost identity with its voters and therefore let Britain down.
However, my understanding is the stats don't back up your view that Labour overspent only for the Tories to come in and sort it out. GDP/debt ratios under Brown were not historically excessive at all (IIRC they were not far off those under Thatcher at one point) and only started spiking once the banking crisis took hold. In terms of getting that ratio under control and of course the total public debt racked up, far from sorting it out, Osborne has been a disaster.
At the same time our public services have been cut year on year thereby creating an alternative cycle to that you're proposing. In that an incoming Labour government then finds itself needing to invest/borrow in order to improve/rebuild those same public services. And we go around again...
I don't expect we'll ever agree tbh but, accepting it may be written from one point of view, this is a pretty good article imo independent.co.uk/voices/comment/the-myth-excessive-government-borrowing-got-us-into-this-mess-8601390.html#
Thank goodness Labour were in power when the global financial crisis happened, as we escaped the horrendous austerity measures used by some other countries.
2. Lack of planning on post Brexit vote - No one thought that the majority would vote out
3. Having been voted in, on Labour financial mis-management (post 2008 banking scandal) have doubled national debt - So labour mis-managed funds?
4. Purport to support the market economy but turn a blind eye to uncompetitive practises. (Energy, banking, insurance etc) No ads. - labour sold many companies, as did the Tories
5. Do nothing to address the growing gap between rich and poor. - Blair done well addressing that
6. Actively encourage tax evasion - This has been going on years, even with Labour in power
7. Allow foreign domination of our media - Didn't Blair strike a deal with Murdoch over VAT..??
8. Promote tax breaks for the rich - This has been going on years, even with Labour in power
9. Allow foreign criminals to invest in our country with no probing. - This has been going on years, even with Labour in power
10. Ignore poor whole northern communities lack of oportunties. - This has been going on years, even with Labour in power
11. Elitist and public schoolboy mentality - Agree with you on this, but when you have Diane Abott sending her child to private school it stinks a bit and let's not forget Kinnock, or should we say Lord Kinnock
12. Boris, Osbourne, Jeremy Hunt. - Diane Abott, Corbyn, etc, etc
13. Zero hours contracts, pension deficits despite share dividends, unchallengable Exec packages, rewards for failure. - This has been going on years, even with Labour in power
14.Lack of action on CT evasion, including tax deals - This has been going on years, even with Labour in power
15.NHS propose RENEGING on contracts with junior doctors - Agree with you on this
Believe it or not I don't like this Tory mob at all, but when labour have weak people at the helm it doesn't help does it?
They are all as bad as each other IMHO
There were plenty who said we shouldn't have a referendum, again not as many as might impress you, but they were out there all right.
http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2013/01/25/why-referendums-are-bad-for-you
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32114191
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/06/lib-dem-opposition-to-eu-referendum-is-of-very-highest-importance-says-cable
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/07/labours-opposition-eu-referendum-its-trump-card-business
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/15/obama-opposed-eu-referendum-says-david-laws
http://www.ukipdaily.com/referendum-bad-idea/