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Savings and Investments thread

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  • PragueAddick
    PragueAddick Posts: 22,145
    golfaddick said:
    bobmunro said:
    PragueAddick said:
    First a little tip if you are planning to invest in one of NSI's new one year bonds at cracking rates.

    Unlike bank accoutns with similar products, you have to have all your money you wish to invest, ready to pay in as you open it. You can either pay by debit card from your nominated account, or if you have an NSI Direct Saver you can move your money there. But if like me you are gathering up the money from various other accounts, you need to do that first before applying.

    That's a bit clumsy; but the good news is you can open up to ten accounts of the same type, so longas , as the nice lady reminded me, I don't exceed the total of £1mil. I told her that as I only got £150 in the latest draw there is no chance of that :)

    Got some juggling to do though - but I think it's worth it. Rather have a lot in NSI than some of these smaller banks. 
    Also, depending on how much you have to invest in the 1 year bond (or indeed any other NS&I product) of course, the protection of all of your investment rather than £85k is a not insignificant benefit. 
    Although I understand savers concern with regard the £85k compensation limit i would say that any UK Government would do everything in its power to stop a UK bank going bust, like they did in 2008 - so much so we (the UK taxpayer) have been paying for it ever since in the form of the bail out of the Lloyds banking group.

    I really don't think the compo limit should be that much if a concern to savers 


    I'm of course with Bob on this one. The  thing that also worries me is that a lot of the smaller banks offering apparently juicy deals are Middle Eastern, or, heaven help us, Nigerian. They all claim (on Raisin) to be covered by the UK government guarantee. Well I  don't want to be a guinea-pig for that experiment, much rather  put my trust in NS&I, and at the same time, I presume, help the UK's balance sheet. Seems a no-brainer to me
  • Rob7Lee
    Rob7Lee Posts: 9,595
    My view on the £85k is much like others, except that, why run the risk? Unless you have literally millions in cash, spreading around a handful is prudent, now NS&I are giving a decent rate it seems a no brainer to me.
  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 52,008
    RaplhMilne said:
    golfaddick said:
    bobmunro said:
    PragueAddick said:
    First a little tip if you are planning to invest in one of NSI's new one year bonds at cracking rates.

    Unlike bank accoutns with similar products, you have to have all your money you wish to invest, ready to pay in as you open it. You can either pay by debit card from your nominated account, or if you have an NSI Direct Saver you can move your money there. But if like me you are gathering up the money from various other accounts, you need to do that first before applying.

    That's a bit clumsy; but the good news is you can open up to ten accounts of the same type, so longas , as the nice lady reminded me, I don't exceed the total of £1mil. I told her that as I only got £150 in the latest draw there is no chance of that :)

    Got some juggling to do though - but I think it's worth it. Rather have a lot in NSI than some of these smaller banks. 
    Also, depending on how much you have to invest in the 1 year bond (or indeed any other NS&I product) of course, the protection of all of your investment rather than £85k is a not insignificant benefit. 
    Although I understand savers concern with regard the £85k compensation limit i would say that any UK Government would do everything in its power to stop a UK bank going bust, like they did in 2008 - so much so we (the UK taxpayer) have been paying for it ever since in the form of the bail out of the Lloyds banking group.

    I really don't think the compo limit should be that much if a concern to savers 


    I would like to correct you on the 2008 Lloyds situation. Gordon Brown basically lied and conned Eric Daniels (Lloyds CEO) into a swift and basically short on diligence deal to takeover the Halifax.  Halifax was completely stuffed and was within days of going under, as had Northern Rock a few months earlier. The Government did not want to be seen taking over the Halifax hence pushing Lloyds into one of the worst financial deals in banking history. I believe Lloyds were under the impression that Halifax were £10 Billion in trouble, Lloyds had this covered. Infact Halifax was more like £22 Billion wrong, and that Lloyds couldn’t cover.

    As for the Taxpayer paying for it. I was a Lloyds Staff member, I held shares and had options worth over £60,000. Shares were around £5. By the time Gordon Brown finished stitching Lloyds up they were 25p. My £60,000 was now £3,000. I think you will find the real people who paid were Lloyds Shareholders, not the tax payers. 

    An when the Government finally got back the the money back it invested in Lloyds, it actually made a profit. 



    Correct. I am in a similar position and still holding Lloyds shares which are unlikely to return to £5 anytime soon.
    I never understood why Daniels did it (obviously government pressure) because I and everyone paying attention knew it was so catastrophic that it would very seriously damage Lloyds.
  • Rob7Lee
    Rob7Lee Posts: 9,595
    Either my memory is shady or others are, when it all began to kick off I dumped all my bank shares other than a dabble in HBOS but that's a story for another day, i'm sure at the time Lloyds were about £3 at best (although yes they did have a massive drop from where they've never really recovered)?
  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 52,008
    Rob7Lee said:
    Either my memory is shady or others are, when it all began to kick off I dumped all my bank shares other than a dabble in HBOS but that's a story for another day, i'm sure at the time Lloyds were about £3 at best (although yes they did have a massive drop from where they've never really recovered)?
    Correct.
  • cafctom
    cafctom Posts: 11,372
    With this new NS&I bond, is there a limit you can put into it? Can’t seem to find a link to it. 
  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 52,008
    cafctom said:
    With this new NS&I bond, is there a limit you can put into it? Can’t seem to find a link to it. 
    £1M I think.
  • Rob7Lee
    Rob7Lee Posts: 9,595
    edited September 2023
    Yes £1m per bond/person. Minimum of £500.
  • golfaddick
    golfaddick Posts: 33,628
    bobmunro said:
    golfaddick said:
    bobmunro said:
    PragueAddick said:
    First a little tip if you are planning to invest in one of NSI's new one year bonds at cracking rates.

    Unlike bank accoutns with similar products, you have to have all your money you wish to invest, ready to pay in as you open it. You can either pay by debit card from your nominated account, or if you have an NSI Direct Saver you can move your money there. But if like me you are gathering up the money from various other accounts, you need to do that first before applying.

    That's a bit clumsy; but the good news is you can open up to ten accounts of the same type, so longas , as the nice lady reminded me, I don't exceed the total of £1mil. I told her that as I only got £150 in the latest draw there is no chance of that :)

    Got some juggling to do though - but I think it's worth it. Rather have a lot in NSI than some of these smaller banks. 
    Also, depending on how much you have to invest in the 1 year bond (or indeed any other NS&I product) of course, the protection of all of your investment rather than £85k is a not insignificant benefit. 
    Although I understand savers concern with regard the £85k compensation limit i would say that any UK Government would do everything in its power to stop a UK bank going bust, like they did in 2008 - so much so we (the UK taxpayer) have been paying for it ever since in the form of the bail out of the Lloyds banking group.

    I really don't think the compo limit should be that much if a concern to savers 


    It's not really a concern, Golfie, for the reasons you state - it's just that any NS&I investment completely eliminates the risk, however small.

    At my age I am very keen to eliminate any unnecessary risk, especially as I'm now heavily geared towards cash, and 6.2% gross with pretty much zero risk is very attractive. 
    Don't get me wrong, I think the new NS&I Bond at 6.2% is a no brainer. But if HSBC were offering it I don't think the £85k FSCS limit would deter me putting in, say, £100k. 

    But as @prague says - I wouldn't be investing into any "offshore" institution, especially anything outside of the EU. 

    Unfortunately I've had to pull out all my savings, inc my £50k in PB's as I'm just about to exchange & complete on a property.
  • golfaddick
    golfaddick Posts: 33,628
    RaplhMilne said:
    golfaddick said:
    bobmunro said:
    PragueAddick said:
    First a little tip if you are planning to invest in one of NSI's new one year bonds at cracking rates.

    Unlike bank accoutns with similar products, you have to have all your money you wish to invest, ready to pay in as you open it. You can either pay by debit card from your nominated account, or if you have an NSI Direct Saver you can move your money there. But if like me you are gathering up the money from various other accounts, you need to do that first before applying.

    That's a bit clumsy; but the good news is you can open up to ten accounts of the same type, so longas , as the nice lady reminded me, I don't exceed the total of £1mil. I told her that as I only got £150 in the latest draw there is no chance of that :)

    Got some juggling to do though - but I think it's worth it. Rather have a lot in NSI than some of these smaller banks. 
    Also, depending on how much you have to invest in the 1 year bond (or indeed any other NS&I product) of course, the protection of all of your investment rather than £85k is a not insignificant benefit. 
    Although I understand savers concern with regard the £85k compensation limit i would say that any UK Government would do everything in its power to stop a UK bank going bust, like they did in 2008 - so much so we (the UK taxpayer) have been paying for it ever since in the form of the bail out of the Lloyds banking group.

    I really don't think the compo limit should be that much if a concern to savers 


    I would like to correct you on the 2008 Lloyds situation. Gordon Brown basically lied and conned Eric Daniels (Lloyds CEO) into a swift and basically short on diligence deal to takeover the Halifax.  Halifax was completely stuffed and was within days of going under, as had Northern Rock a few months earlier. The Government did not want to be seen taking over the Halifax hence pushing Lloyds into one of the worst financial deals in banking history. I believe Lloyds were under the impression that Halifax were £10 Billion in trouble, Lloyds had this covered. Infact Halifax was more like £22 Billion wrong, and that Lloyds couldn’t cover.

    As for the Taxpayer paying for it. I was a Lloyds Staff member, I held shares and had options worth over £60,000. Shares were around £5. By the time Gordon Brown finished stitching Lloyds up they were 25p. My £60,000 was now £3,000. I think you will find the real people who paid were Lloyds Shareholders, not the tax payers. 

    An when the Government finally got back the the money back it invested in Lloyds, it actually made a profit. 



    I am sorry to hear this & yes, Gordon Brown & Alister Darling stitched everyone up. But like I said, they did it because they were not going to let a UK Bank go bust. As far as I can recall no-one with savings lost any money (from Northern Rock or HBOS) unlike a couple of Icelandic banks. Mortgages customers however, were definitely sold down the river. Many now are stuck with non-mainstream lenders - mortgage prisoners on Variable rates in excess of 8%.
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  • LonelyNorthernAddick
    LonelyNorthernAddick Posts: 2,423
    golfaddick said:
    bobmunro said:
    golfaddick said:
    bobmunro said:
    PragueAddick said:
    First a little tip if you are planning to invest in one of NSI's new one year bonds at cracking rates.

    Unlike bank accoutns with similar products, you have to have all your money you wish to invest, ready to pay in as you open it. You can either pay by debit card from your nominated account, or if you have an NSI Direct Saver you can move your money there. But if like me you are gathering up the money from various other accounts, you need to do that first before applying.

    That's a bit clumsy; but the good news is you can open up to ten accounts of the same type, so longas , as the nice lady reminded me, I don't exceed the total of £1mil. I told her that as I only got £150 in the latest draw there is no chance of that :)

    Got some juggling to do though - but I think it's worth it. Rather have a lot in NSI than some of these smaller banks. 
    Also, depending on how much you have to invest in the 1 year bond (or indeed any other NS&I product) of course, the protection of all of your investment rather than £85k is a not insignificant benefit. 
    Although I understand savers concern with regard the £85k compensation limit i would say that any UK Government would do everything in its power to stop a UK bank going bust, like they did in 2008 - so much so we (the UK taxpayer) have been paying for it ever since in the form of the bail out of the Lloyds banking group.

    I really don't think the compo limit should be that much if a concern to savers 


    It's not really a concern, Golfie, for the reasons you state - it's just that any NS&I investment completely eliminates the risk, however small.

    At my age I am very keen to eliminate any unnecessary risk, especially as I'm now heavily geared towards cash, and 6.2% gross with pretty much zero risk is very attractive. 
    Don't get me wrong, I think the new NS&I Bond at 6.2% is a no brainer. But if HSBC were offering it I don't think the £85k FSCS limit would deter me putting in, say, £100k. 

    But as @prague says - I wouldn't be investing into any "offshore" institution, especially anything outside of the EU. 

    Unfortunately I've had to pull out all my savings, inc my £50k in PB's as I'm just about to exchange & complete on a property.
    Best of luck with the move Golfie
  • Fortune 82nd Minute
    Fortune 82nd Minute Posts: 8,338
    Serious question for you guys who know your onions. Is there any point in investing in the stock market at the moment?

    Historically, the stock market has been the place to grow your savings. But is that still true today, particularly given the way the market moves these days?

    It's not that many years ago, that a fall of 100 points was the lead item on the News at 10. Nowadays, that sort of fall barely raises a mention as it is no longer a rarity. And it seems to me that the market now looks for any excuse to have a sell-off and so often gains that have been built up over months disappear in a day when a sell-off occurs.

    And throw in that the FTSE has hardly moved in 5 years (I know you need a good spread of funds) then I'm seriously wondering that now I can earn over 6% totally risk free with NSI (with fixed rate Cash ISAs not far behind with no tax to pay) why bother with investing in the stock market, particularly given the way that things are at the moment and the possibility that a huge sell off could well be on the way.

    So are these fixed rate investments now the best way to grow your savings? 

  • superclive98
    superclive98 Posts: 4,766
    Fortune 82nd Minute said:
    Serious question for you guys who know your onions. Is there any point in investing in the stock market at the moment?

    Historically, the stock market has been the place to grow your savings. But is that still true today, particularly given the way the market moves these days?

    It's not that many years ago, that a fall of 100 points was the lead item on the News at 10. Nowadays, that sort of fall barely raises a mention as it is no longer a rarity. And it seems to me that the market now looks for any excuse to have a sell-off and so often gains that have been built up over months disappear in a day when a sell-off occurs.

    And throw in that the FTSE has hardly moved in 5 years (I know you need a good spread of funds) then I'm seriously wondering that now I can earn over 6% totally risk free with NSI (with fixed rate Cash ISAs not far behind with no tax to pay) why bother with investing in the stock market, particularly given the way that things are at the moment and the possibility that a huge sell off could well be on the way.

    So are these fixed rate investments now the best way to grow your savings? 

    The fact that the world has had to endure a once in a lifetime pandemic and there is currently an ongoing war on European soil, I think that it's pretty good to have the FTSE where it was 5 years ago.
  • golfaddick
    golfaddick Posts: 33,628
    Fortune 82nd Minute said:
    Serious question for you guys who know your onions. Is there any point in investing in the stock market at the moment?

    Historically, the stock market has been the place to grow your savings. But is that still true today, particularly given the way the market moves these days?

    It's not that many years ago, that a fall of 100 points was the lead item on the News at 10. Nowadays, that sort of fall barely raises a mention as it is no longer a rarity. And it seems to me that the market now looks for any excuse to have a sell-off and so often gains that have been built up over months disappear in a day when a sell-off occurs.

    And throw in that the FTSE has hardly moved in 5 years (I know you need a good spread of funds) then I'm seriously wondering that now I can earn over 6% totally risk free with NSI (with fixed rate Cash ISAs not far behind with no tax to pay) why bother with investing in the stock market, particularly given the way that things are at the moment and the possibility that a huge sell off could well be on the way.

    So are these fixed rate investments now the best way to grow your savings? 

    As much as it pains me to say it...... I would have to agree with you (to a point). Currently cash is beating most things (apart from inflation, and that's now falling) and YTD is just ahead of a global equity portfolio (US up 7% so far this year). 

    However, its almost impossible to time the market and in 6 months time you could find the FTSE is back near its all time high of 8000 and you would have missed out on a 6% rise. 

    If you can invest in tax efficient products such as ISA's & Pensions then the tax savings/tax relief may well out perform your (taxed) cash deposits. 

    As they say.......everything on moderation. 
  • Rob7Lee
    Rob7Lee Posts: 9,595
    edited September 2023
    Fortune 82nd Minute said:
    Serious question for you guys who know your onions. Is there any point in investing in the stock market at the moment?

    Historically, the stock market has been the place to grow your savings. But is that still true today, particularly given the way the market moves these days?

    It's not that many years ago, that a fall of 100 points was the lead item on the News at 10. Nowadays, that sort of fall barely raises a mention as it is no longer a rarity. And it seems to me that the market now looks for any excuse to have a sell-off and so often gains that have been built up over months disappear in a day when a sell-off occurs.

    And throw in that the FTSE has hardly moved in 5 years (I know you need a good spread of funds) then I'm seriously wondering that now I can earn over 6% totally risk free with NSI (with fixed rate Cash ISAs not far behind with no tax to pay) why bother with investing in the stock market, particularly given the way that things are at the moment and the possibility that a huge sell off could well be on the way.

    So are these fixed rate investments now the best way to grow your savings? 

    If you are prepared to invest monthly, over a sustained period (5 years plus) then I still believe the stock market, with the right funds, will out perform cash.

    BUT, unless you can do the above for that length of time as a minimum and not need to access said funds I'd stick to cash.

    The FTSE may not have moved much in 5 years, but others have, plus investing monthly at the various price points, I'm averaging about 9% a year over that period.

    PS like I keep mentioning to @PragueAddick don't forget the dividends!
  • Rob7Lee
    Rob7Lee Posts: 9,595
    As an example Fund, Vanguards S&P500 has performed as follows:

    30 Jun 2018
    -
    30 Jun 2019

    +11.15%

    30 Jun 2019
    -
    30 Jun 2020

    +7.71%

    30 Jun 2020
    -
    30 Jun 2021

    +24.98%

    30 Jun 2021
    -
    30 Jun 2022

    +0.15%

    30 Jun 2022
    -
    30 Jun 2023

    +12.09%


    On the 4th September 2018 the fund price was £42.94, it's now 5 years later £67.99.

  • mendonca
    mendonca Posts: 9,405
    By advising to hold cash, I presume you mean to save the cash in either an isa or decent bond if your limit has been reached.
  • guinnessaddick
    guinnessaddick Posts: 28,633
    guinnessaddick said:
    RaplhMilne said:
    Can you cash in, and transfer to the new one year bond all online. Or does the cashed in funds have to come back to your account first. 

    I’ve cashed in some & it’s gone into my account, once in, I’ll put it into the one year bond.
    Showing up in my account, as an upcoming transaction, so will be in my account tomorrow. 3 working days.
  • letthegoodtimesroll
    letthegoodtimesroll Posts: 10,621
    superclive98 said:
    Fortune 82nd Minute said:
    Serious question for you guys who know your onions. Is there any point in investing in the stock market at the moment?

    Historically, the stock market has been the place to grow your savings. But is that still true today, particularly given the way the market moves these days?

    It's not that many years ago, that a fall of 100 points was the lead item on the News at 10. Nowadays, that sort of fall barely raises a mention as it is no longer a rarity. And it seems to me that the market now looks for any excuse to have a sell-off and so often gains that have been built up over months disappear in a day when a sell-off occurs.

    And throw in that the FTSE has hardly moved in 5 years (I know you need a good spread of funds) then I'm seriously wondering that now I can earn over 6% totally risk free with NSI (with fixed rate Cash ISAs not far behind with no tax to pay) why bother with investing in the stock market, particularly given the way that things are at the moment and the possibility that a huge sell off could well be on the way.

    So are these fixed rate investments now the best way to grow your savings? 

    The fact that the world has had to endure a once in a lifetime pandemic and there is currently an ongoing war on European soil, I think that it's pretty good to have the FTSE where it was 5 years ago.

    .that’s probably more telling about where we were 5 years ago when we were in that hangover period of the Brexit vote and realising nobody had thought about the consequences and the ‘instant’ promised benefits like £350 million for the NHS etc and trade deals with the rest of the world were BS. Still, given what’s happening today we must have stopped the rot to have not crashed
  • PragueAddick
    PragueAddick Posts: 22,145
    Rob7Lee said:
    Fortune 82nd Minute said:
    Serious question for you guys who know your onions. Is there any point in investing in the stock market at the moment?

    Historically, the stock market has been the place to grow your savings. But is that still true today, particularly given the way the market moves these days?

    It's not that many years ago, that a fall of 100 points was the lead item on the News at 10. Nowadays, that sort of fall barely raises a mention as it is no longer a rarity. And it seems to me that the market now looks for any excuse to have a sell-off and so often gains that have been built up over months disappear in a day when a sell-off occurs.

    And throw in that the FTSE has hardly moved in 5 years (I know you need a good spread of funds) then I'm seriously wondering that now I can earn over 6% totally risk free with NSI (with fixed rate Cash ISAs not far behind with no tax to pay) why bother with investing in the stock market, particularly given the way that things are at the moment and the possibility that a huge sell off could well be on the way.

    So are these fixed rate investments now the best way to grow your savings? 

    If you are prepared to invest monthly, over a sustained period (5 years plus) then I still believe the stock market, with the right funds, will out perform cash.

    BUT, unless you can do the above for that length of time as a minimum and not need to access said funds I'd stick to cash.

    The FTSE may not have moved much in 5 years, but others have, plus investing monthly at the various price points, I'm averaging about 9% a year over that period.

    PS like I keep mentioning to @PragueAddick don't forget the dividends!
    I'd agree with this advice, assuming @Fortune 82nd Minute is at least 10 years younger than me (or Bob). But there is also an option for the more cautious investor: Hedge your bets. Whatever your overall pot to invest, split it in half. Follow @Rob7Lee approach to drip-feeding into the equity markets with half of it. Stash the other half at 6% for a year with NSI. Forget about it, don't let FOMO get to you, and review after a year. 
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  • IdleHans
    IdleHans Posts: 10,969
    I'd also be inclined to look at slightly longer fixed rates as after 12 months the 6.2% will drop away. You can get around 6% on a two year and about 5.75% for five years currently. All depends on your circumstances of course, but I've got some small amounts tied up for those periods and it's nice to know there's a bit of interest accruing for the foreseeable. Consider the timing of interest payments too - if it's all at maturity it may attract more tax than if paid monthly or annually.
  • LonelyNorthernAddick
    LonelyNorthernAddick Posts: 2,423
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66714128

    I believe a certain someone mentioning this company a few times, well done @PragueAddick

  • kentaddick
    kentaddick Posts: 18,729
    This is your reminder to start buying bitcoin now and you can thank me in 2 years time when you sell.
  • LonelyNorthernAddick
    LonelyNorthernAddick Posts: 2,423
    kentaddick said:
    This is your reminder to start buying bitcoin now and you can thank me in 2 years time when you sell.
    Why now in particular?
  • PragueAddick
    PragueAddick Posts: 22,145
    LonelyNorthernAddick said:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66714128

    I believe a certain someone mentioning this company a few times, well done @PragueAddick

    Yes, greatly enjoyed the headlines. Took my holding to +90% over 2 years. But just lucky that locally they came calling for my services in recruitment in 2019. I knew little about them. I sat in reception of their modest offices and stared at a poster informing me that one in ten Czechs will suffer from T2 diabetes, and thought about the benefits to a creaking health system if they have something that keeps these people out of hospitals.

    Just my lucky day, really.

  • LargeAddick
    LargeAddick Posts: 32,561
    Santander are offering 5.2% on an Easy Access Instant Saver. Can deposit/withdraw funds whenever you want, no penalties. 
  • shine166
    shine166 Posts: 13,918
    Got 5k to invest for my 4 year old. Which type of isa would people recommend, cash or stocks and shares ? 
  • kentaddick
    kentaddick Posts: 18,729
    shine166 said:
    Got 5k to invest for my 4 year old. Which type of isa would people recommend, cash or stocks and shares ? 
    layman here, but probably best for stocks and shares isa and stick on a tracker fund so you can just leave it imo.
  • kentaddick
    kentaddick Posts: 18,729
    LonelyNorthernAddick said:
    kentaddick said:
    This is your reminder to start buying bitcoin now and you can thank me in 2 years time when you sell.
    Why now in particular?
    coming to the end of the bear market, the bitcoin halving where bitcoin miners, the largest sellers of bitcoin on the market, have their rewards for mining halved. So the amount they're dumping on the market will halve. Traditionally it's then followed by a bull market. That combined with the fact blackrock etc have applied to the SEC for a bitcoin ETF means there's lots of money ready to come into the btc market. So two bullish events in the next 6-12 months.
  • golfaddick
    golfaddick Posts: 33,628
    If we are throwing out recommendations then how's this for starters......

    8%pa guaranteed over 5 years. Fully capital protected (up to the £85k FSCS compo limit @bobmunro). Could mature after 3 or 4 years should certain conditions apply. Would only get your initial capital back (no 40% "interest") should the S&P500 fall by more than 20% during that time. 

    Obviously this is not a promotion or a recommendation to buy under FCA regs. 


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