£150 on max. I’ve won just over 2.5% this year and had the fun of daydreaming about what I’d spend the “big one” on. Other than pb’s I don’t gamble (which probably would cost me money) so I’m ok about my pb flutter and the returns.
Just regarding moving abroad to avoid IHT. I don't know whether you've looked at the tax implications carefully yet; just in case you haven't, here's a heads-up. There is a distinction between tax non-residence and "domicile". HMRC seek to levy IHT on the basis of domicile, and the problem is that there is no written definition of it. Basically if HMRC can find evidence that you still have "ties" to the UK they will come after your estate. There are cases where they did that purely on the basis that the deceased expressed the wish in their will to be buried in the U.K. I got all this from the British lawyer who did my will, he specialises in "expat" situations.
I'm working on this myself right now. I managed to get HMRC to agree that I no longer need to fill in an annual self-assessment form, but that's not the end of it. I need to get rid of bank accounts and platforms for which you are supposed to be UK resident. That means among other things shifting away from H-L to a platform which doesn't require a UK residential address or bank account.
If this is news to you, it will be worth you talking to a trusted tax accountant or will specialist lawyer.
Just regarding moving abroad to avoid IHT. I don't know whether you've looked at the tax implications carefully yet; just in case you haven't, here's a heads-up. There is a distinction between tax non-residence and "domicile". HMRC seek to levy IHT on the basis of domicile, and the problem is that there is no written definition of it. Basically if HMRC can find evidence that you still have "ties" to the UK they will come after your estate. There are cases where they did that purely on the basis that the deceased expressed the wish in their will to be buried in the U.K. I got all this from the British lawyer who did my will, he specialises in "expat" situations.
I'm working on this myself right now. I managed to get HMRC to agree that I no longer need to fill in an annual self-assessment form, but that's not the end of it. I need to get rid of bank accounts and platforms for which you are supposed to be UK resident. That means among other things shifting away from H-L to a platform which doesn't require a UK residential address or bank account.
If this is news to you, it will be worth you talking to a trusted tax accountant or will specialist lawyer.
Yes, I've been up to my eyeballs in definitions of ties and their links to the number of days you spend in the UK, particularly in the first few years. The season ticket would be a casualty, no doubt.
That's the balance I need to judge whilst my Mum is still alive. e.g. if she gets ill again, I want to make sure I have so few ties that I can move in to look after her again, as it's that callous and cynical a system, it would count that as a tie. I'm with her now, having stayed over for the Southend game and I'm glad to say she's looking well!
I have a couple of friends who are international tax lawyers and I'll definitely go to one of those when it comes to the time to pull the trigger.
I have absolutely no issue in pension being included in an estate, it's an asset and no different to savings or property or shares. It's the change from not being included to being included that smarts.
Just spend it ffs!
I agree, just changes my IHT planning. Will likely mean I retire earlier to give me a chance to spend it! Every cloud……
You've got until April 2027 to make any changes to your IHT planning.
Something I read on the detail of pensions falling part of your estate from 2027 which I can't quite get my head around as to if I read it incorrectly (but think I have), would welcome golfies thoughts:
1. We know from April 2027 your pension 'pot' forms part of your estate and therefore if your estate is big enough will attract 40% tax. Understood. 2. And this is the bit I wonder if I read incorrectly, post probate etc let's assume you had a £1m pension pot and therefore said pot is now £600k as 40% tax paid and you are over 75 on death. The beneficiary if they then ever draw on said pension pot has to pay income tax on it at their marginal rate. So it becomes double taxed, potentially your £1m becomes £360k (£1m - 40%, - 40%) if the beneficiary is a 40% tax payer. Whereas if the money was say in a savings account it would simply pass to the beneficiary after the 40% tax (so £600k) and no further tax would be payable.
That being the case, aside from the tax relief going into a pension it seems really not worth holding anything in a pension to pass down (other than to the wife!)...... am I missing something?
I have absolutely no issue in pension being included in an estate, it's an asset and no different to savings or property or shares. It's the change from not being included to being included that smarts.
Just spend it ffs!
I agree, just changes my IHT planning. Will likely mean I retire earlier to give me a chance to spend it! Every cloud……
You've got until April 2027 to make any changes to your IHT planning.
Something I read on the detail of pensions falling part of your estate from 2027 which I can't quite get my head around as to if I read it incorrectly (but think I have), would welcome golfies thoughts:
1. We know from April 2027 your pension 'pot' forms part of your estate and therefore if your estate is big enough will attract 40% tax. Understood. 2. And this is the bit I wonder if I read incorrectly, post probate etc let's assume you had a £1m pension pot and therefore said pot is now £600k as 40% tax paid and you are over 75 on death. The beneficiary if they then ever draw on said pension pot has to pay income tax on it at their marginal rate. So it becomes double taxed, potentially your £1m becomes £360k (£1m - 40%, - 40%) if the beneficiary is a 40% tax payer. Whereas if the money was say in a savings account it would simply pass to the beneficiary after the 40% tax (so £600k) and no further tax would be payable.
That being the case, aside from the tax relief going into a pension it seems really not worth holding anything in a pension to pass down (other than to the wife!)...... am I missing something?
That’s the way that I read it too, but I have a meeting with my advisor in 2 weeks to talk this all through. Have been thinking about IHT insurance, but it honestly seems extremely expensive and I’d rather spend those premiums on myself and family over the years to come.
I have absolutely no issue in pension being included in an estate, it's an asset and no different to savings or property or shares. It's the change from not being included to being included that smarts.
Just spend it ffs!
I agree, just changes my IHT planning. Will likely mean I retire earlier to give me a chance to spend it! Every cloud……
You've got until April 2027 to make any changes to your IHT planning.
Something I read on the detail of pensions falling part of your estate from 2027 which I can't quite get my head around as to if I read it incorrectly (but think I have), would welcome golfies thoughts:
1. We know from April 2027 your pension 'pot' forms part of your estate and therefore if your estate is big enough will attract 40% tax. Understood. 2. And this is the bit I wonder if I read incorrectly, post probate etc let's assume you had a £1m pension pot and therefore said pot is now £600k as 40% tax paid and you are over 75 on death. The beneficiary if they then ever draw on said pension pot has to pay income tax on it at their marginal rate. So it becomes double taxed, potentially your £1m becomes £360k (£1m - 40%, - 40%) if the beneficiary is a 40% tax payer. Whereas if the money was say in a savings account it would simply pass to the beneficiary after the 40% tax (so £600k) and no further tax would be payable.
That being the case, aside from the tax relief going into a pension it seems really not worth holding anything in a pension to pass down (other than to the wife!)...... am I missing something?
Yes, that’s how I see it as well. However, if you as the actual pensioner draw it out and spend it then it’s very different. You have your 25% tax free then pay tax on it at your prevailing rate.
Basically what they are saying is paying loads of money into a pension, and then not withdrawing any. IS NOT a viable savings plan for your kids/ Grandchildren.
@LargeAddick if you die before 75 I believe after IHT (if it is due) is paid (from April 2027) it will then pass freely with no further tax to pay. If you pass and are 75 or over that's when the beneficiaries marginal rate comes into play for any subsequent drawdown (of course after any IHT). So that's where the double down can come into play, 40% IHT and then further tax based on the beneficiaries marginal rate when drawing.
It's a balance between your own tax when drawing, and if you die before or after 75. It certainly seems to me that drawing down as much as possible pre 75 could make sense but then largely depends on your own tax rate and how much you drawer. Certainly drawing up to the 40% band (£50k) probably makes sense.
One things for sure, the second I access my pension I'll be taking the maximum tax free element I can straight away!
I need to run the maths, but I may reduce or even stop paying in now. As broadly anymore that goes in I'll pay 40% tax on the way out. Might be better especially considering the IHT and beneficiary rate to take the hit now.
Yes, that is how the proposals seem to read. IHT (if any) first & then if over 75 on death the beneficiaries are taxed at their nominal rate. So double taxation.
There is now a consultation period, although that seems to be more about how & by whom the IHT is paid.
I expect clarity over the coming months but looks like it might be a case that you have to think about running down your DC pot by the time you get to age 75.
That's exactly why ours are now in spousal annuities. Nothing to get taxed on for IHT. Fair enough the pot goes back to the provider but hope to live long enough to have taken more in pension than the pot is actually worth.
Is it not worth taking your pension early and just blow the lot while you can still enjoy it. Then go back to work in B&Q or something when it runs out and your only fit enough to sit and watch tele anyway.
Or do what the NHS workers and teachers are doing take pension then go back working 2 days a week.
Comments
Return since Jan (so one month to go):
Me 4%
Mrs 3.35%
Daughter..........22.7%!
Father in law £125.
Well it wasn’t 5 years ago when I investigated re ma in law.
I think I'll move it out on the date in case the company crashes and burns
Just regarding moving abroad to avoid IHT. I don't know whether you've looked at the tax implications carefully yet; just in case you haven't, here's a heads-up. There is a distinction between tax non-residence and "domicile". HMRC seek to levy IHT on the basis of domicile, and the problem is that there is no written definition of it. Basically if HMRC can find evidence that you still have "ties" to the UK they will come after your estate. There are cases where they did that purely on the basis that the deceased expressed the wish in their will to be buried in the U.K. I got all this from the British lawyer who did my will, he specialises in "expat" situations.
I'm working on this myself right now. I managed to get HMRC to agree that I no longer need to fill in an annual self-assessment form, but that's not the end of it. I need to get rid of bank accounts and platforms for which you are supposed to be UK resident. That means among other things shifting away from H-L to a platform which doesn't require a UK residential address or bank account.
If this is news to you, it will be worth you talking to a trusted tax accountant or will specialist lawyer.
Yes, I've been up to my eyeballs in definitions of ties and their links to the number of days you spend in the UK, particularly in the first few years. The season ticket would be a casualty, no doubt.
That's the balance I need to judge whilst my Mum is still alive. e.g. if she gets ill again, I want to make sure I have so few ties that I can move in to look after her again, as it's that callous and cynical a system, it would count that as a tie. I'm with her now, having stayed over for the Southend game and I'm glad to say she's looking well!
I have a couple of friends who are international tax lawyers and I'll definitely go to one of those when it comes to the time to pull the trigger.
1. We know from April 2027 your pension 'pot' forms part of your estate and therefore if your estate is big enough will attract 40% tax. Understood.
2. And this is the bit I wonder if I read incorrectly, post probate etc let's assume you had a £1m pension pot and therefore said pot is now £600k as 40% tax paid and you are over 75 on death. The beneficiary if they then ever draw on said pension pot has to pay income tax on it at their marginal rate. So it becomes double taxed, potentially your £1m becomes £360k (£1m - 40%, - 40%) if the beneficiary is a 40% tax payer. Whereas if the money was say in a savings account it would simply pass to the beneficiary after the 40% tax (so £600k) and no further tax would be payable.
That being the case, aside from the tax relief going into a pension it seems really not worth holding anything in a pension to pass down (other than to the wife!)...... am I missing something?
Basically what they are saying is paying loads of money into a pension, and then not withdrawing any. IS NOT a viable savings plan for your kids/ Grandchildren.
@LargeAddick if you die before 75 I believe after IHT (if it is due) is paid (from April 2027) it will then pass freely with no further tax to pay. If you pass and are 75 or over that's when the beneficiaries marginal rate comes into play for any subsequent drawdown (of course after any IHT). So that's where the double down can come into play, 40% IHT and then further tax based on the beneficiaries marginal rate when drawing.
It's a balance between your own tax when drawing, and if you die before or after 75. It certainly seems to me that drawing down as much as possible pre 75 could make sense but then largely depends on your own tax rate and how much you drawer. Certainly drawing up to the 40% band (£50k) probably makes sense.
One things for sure, the second I access my pension I'll be taking the maximum tax free element I can straight away!
I need to run the maths, but I may reduce or even stop paying in now. As broadly anymore that goes in I'll pay 40% tax on the way out. Might be better especially considering the IHT and beneficiary rate to take the hit now.
There is now a consultation period, although that seems to be more about how & by whom the IHT is paid.
I expect clarity over the coming months but looks like it might be a case that you have to think about running down your DC pot by the time you get to age 75.