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Savings and Investments thread
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Similar thoughts, on the maintenance side, my mate has a place in Sotogrande, whilst it is silly expensive there he has maintenance guy who does the gardens, pool etc on a retainer and odd jobs around the place, not overly expensive (if you are away from the UK for a lot of the summer you'd likely have to pay a gardener etc anyway in the Uk at probably a higher cost). But of course there are the usual other running costs.bobmunro said:Rob7Lee said:
Agree with all of that. A new thread (threat?!) may be worthwhile.PragueAddick said:
May seem funny coming from someone who effectively left 32 years ago, but I so agree with these sentiments. Moving away is always a very personal decision, so general advice is always a very limited help. the one thing I would say is, I believe you have more chance of being happy if you moved in the first place for positive reasons; i.e. you actively want to live in the place you’re going to, rather than because you are fed up with Britain. And I honestly don’t think that better weather alone will be enough of a positive reason.Covered End said:Each to their own.
My family, friends and interests are far more important to me than money.
PS I’m on a luxury cruise which is superb and I couldn’t fault but the presumably rich passengers are the most miserable bunch of people.
Perhaps money doesn’t make you happy?But it’s such a complex topic I wonder whether it actually deserves a threat of its own?
It's just one of the options we are considering for retirement (possibly me more than Mrs R7L!). I also have the option of trying out somewhere new for my last couple of years at work. Like I've said if I didn't have children we would by now almost certainly have already gone, whilst maybe not permanently I would have transferred my work place.
The third alternative to staying in the UK or not will be a place abroad to spend the dark and cold winters. If I were a betting man thats I suspect where my wife will land and it'll be Cyprus 1st choice, Lanzarote 2nd, especially if there's a hint of Grandchildren before then which will be her nemesis!Similar to you - I'd be off but Mrs M would take some convincing to leave family (that said our current crop of grandchildren will be in Malta from April). Big tax changes and we may think differently.We've also thought about buying a holiday home abroad but fear it would become a chore to frequently go back to the same place, plus maintenance, ongoing costs and tying up capital that wouldn't necessarily be easy to realise. We just wouldn't use it enough. An alternative that we are seriously considering is medium term rental. For example - rent a villa in the Canaries for January and February, maybe a villa in the Algarve for May with some golf, summer in the UK and perhaps a villa in Spain for September/October (again with some golf). No ongoing commitment, and a variety of locations each year - and if we want to do something differently one year (or indeed nothing at all) then we can.Let's see what Rachel in accounts says first!
The one beauty of your own place is it's just how you like and all your things are there, so all you need is a carry on bag when flying out. If I took my Mrs away for 2-3 months she'd be using all 4 of our suitcase baggage allowance and probably shipping a crate out as well :-)
My old boss retired (he's an Aussie but had been over here 35 years), he sold his big place in Sevenoaks and bought a really nice flat in Tonbridge. So he shuts the door and forgets about it when he leaves as he spends about 9 months of the year now back in Sydney (which interestingly despite all 4 sons being born and grew up in the UK, three now live and work in Australia, benefits of a dual passport!).1 -
Markets going to open with a significant overnight gap. Wouldn’t be surprised if we saw a new all time high before Christmas.0
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New York now open. Let’s see how it goes after this morning’s rises in other locations.Diebythesword said:Markets going to open with a significant overnight gap. Wouldn’t be surprised if we saw a new all time high before Christmas.0 -
Ah, I had mistakenly thought @Covered End was making that comment in the context of moving abroad🤣TelMc32 said:
I’m not sure @Covered End intends emigrating permanently to a cruise ship, but perhaps you meant to quote @Rob7Lee instead 😉PragueAddick said:
May seem funny coming from someone who effectively left 32 years ago, but I so agree with these sentiments. Moving away is always a very personal decision, so general advice is always a very limited help. the one thing I would say is, I believe you have more chance of being happy if you moved in the first place for positive reasons; i.e. you actively want to live in the place you’re going to, rather than because you are fed up with Britain. And I honestly don’t think that better weather alone will be enough of a positive reason.Covered End said:Each to their own.
My family, friends and interests are far more important to me than money.
PS I’m on a luxury cruise which is superb and I couldn’t fault but the presumably rich passengers are the most miserable bunch of people.
Perhaps money doesn’t make you happy?But it’s such a complex topic I wonder whether it actually deserves a threat of its own?
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Gap swiftly closed, but US job numbers v good. Bit of an odd sell off considering fundamentals?2
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Never say never. I have a family member who has effectively retired to cruise ships. He's possibly my favourite family member. Lived in Aus most of his life, always loved the sea became a sailing captain after he retired and spent 15 years doing that, sold his house and lived on a boat for quite a number of years. Crossed the atlantic twice in his 70s. Even taught me to sail! As he got older and less mobile he did a couple cruises. And now basically lives on them. Cheaper than a care home, less effort than living alone and he never was one for staying in one place. Gets to know all the captains and I'm sure he gives them all sailing tips!TelMc32 said:
I’m not sure @Covered End intends emigrating permanently to a cruise ship, but perhaps you meant to quote @Rob7Lee instead 😉PragueAddick said:
May seem funny coming from someone who effectively left 32 years ago, but I so agree with these sentiments. Moving away is always a very personal decision, so general advice is always a very limited help. the one thing I would say is, I believe you have more chance of being happy if you moved in the first place for positive reasons; i.e. you actively want to live in the place you’re going to, rather than because you are fed up with Britain. And I honestly don’t think that better weather alone will be enough of a positive reason.Covered End said:Each to their own.
My family, friends and interests are far more important to me than money.
PS I’m on a luxury cruise which is superb and I couldn’t fault but the presumably rich passengers are the most miserable bunch of people.
Perhaps money doesn’t make you happy?But it’s such a complex topic I wonder whether it actually deserves a threat of its own?
The blokes an inspiration, backpacked around Venezuela age 77! Pure legend.7 -
Isn't Cyprus mad expensive now given the number of Russian and Israelis living there? I have a customer who has moved there and tells me he can't find anywhere to buy he would want to live in (his budget is €2m).2
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He needs to look a little harder!! Whilst it's not cheap no, it does depend where you want to be and type of property, but:Athletico Charlton said:Isn't Cyprus mad expensive now given the number of Russian and Israelis living there? I have a customer who has moved there and tells me he can't find anywhere to buy he would want to live in (his budget is €2m).
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/157977209?currencyCode=GBP#/media?activePlan=1¤cyCode=GBP&id=media26&ref=photoCollage&channel=OVERSEAS
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/167906543?currencyCode=GBP#/?channel=OVERSEAS
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Looks okay.Rob7Lee said:
He needs to look a little harder!! Whilst it's not cheap no, it does depend where you want to be and type of property, but:Athletico Charlton said:Isn't Cyprus mad expensive now given the number of Russian and Israelis living there? I have a customer who has moved there and tells me he can't find anywhere to buy he would want to live in (his budget is €2m).
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/157977209?currencyCode=GBP#/media?activePlan=1¤cyCode=GBP&id=media26&ref=photoCollage&channel=OVERSEAS
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/167906543?currencyCode=GBP#/?channel=OVERSEAS0 -
Even those fantastic Nvidia results not enough to stop the Bears. In for a big slide now I reckon.Southbank said:
Wall St hustlers are shorting tech stocks and even the head of Google says there is irrationality in the market. If stocks fall on Thursday even if Nvidia's results are good then we will be on the slide for sure.paulsturgess said:Is everyone convinced the markets are going to collapse over the next couple of weeks? Is it possible that the measures might not be as extreme as feared and the market reacts well to it?!2 -
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I'm tending to agree. Reports suggest the US markets turned today due to fears the Fed wont cut rates again in Dec. Trumpanomics is starting to bite with rising inflation & the lack of a workforce. The latter because immigrants looking for work (like in the UK a section of the population needed for manual/menial work) has fallen off a cliff. 300,000 in 2023 has fallen to just 10,000 last month.Southbank said:
Even those fantastic Nvidia results not enough to stop the Bears. In for a big slide now I reckon.Southbank said:
Wall St hustlers are shorting tech stocks and even the head of Google says there is irrationality in the market. If stocks fall on Thursday even if Nvidia's results are good then we will be on the slide for sure.paulsturgess said:Is everyone convinced the markets are going to collapse over the next couple of weeks? Is it possible that the measures might not be as extreme as feared and the market reacts well to it?!
Here we are waiting for the Budget, which has stalled the property market & left everyone holding onto their wallets/purses.
I'm not calling a bloodbath but the often cited "correction" is well under way.1 -
Well the budgets just two days away and the ever dropping of hints seems to have continued for the last few days.So the latest seems to be varied gossip about the 'mansion tax'. Latest consensus seems to be some kind of tax (possibly following revaluation) on the top 2 or even 3 council tax bands, properties over 1.5m or 2m. An alternative seems to just be a doubling (or similar) of council tax on the top two bands. But seeing Band G was properties £160-320k in 1991 to me seems unlikely as in some areas that would be a tax on properties sub £500k.
You then have salary sacrifice on pension contributions to be restricted (muted to be £2k per annum).
A further extension to the freeze on the personal allowance and income tax bands.
Axing of the two child benefit cap.
And muted by some:
Levy on EV's
Change to inheritance tax regarding gifts (having a lifetime limit).
Anything anyone else heard?0 -
Every single one a disincentive to work hard and save. People who do are punished and people who do not are rewarded with money taken from those who do.Rob7Lee said:Well the budgets just two days away and the ever dropping of hints seems to have continued for the last few days.So the latest seems to be varied gossip about the 'mansion tax'. Latest consensus seems to be some kind of tax (possibly following revaluation) on the top 2 or even 3 council tax bands, properties over 1.5m or 2m. An alternative seems to just be a doubling (or similar) of council tax on the top two bands. But seeing Band G was properties £160-320k in 1991 to me seems unlikely as in some areas that would be a tax on properties sub £500k.
You then have salary sacrifice on pension contributions to be restricted (muted to be £2k per annum).
A further extension to the freeze on the personal allowance and income tax bands.
Axing of the two child benefit cap.
And muted by some:
Levy on EV's
Change to inheritance tax regarding gifts (having a lifetime limit).
Anything anyone else heard?11 -
TFC to remain as is. Same for pension tax reliefs.Rob7Lee said:Well the budgets just two days away and the ever dropping of hints seems to have continued for the last few days.So the latest seems to be varied gossip about the 'mansion tax'. Latest consensus seems to be some kind of tax (possibly following revaluation) on the top 2 or even 3 council tax bands, properties over 1.5m or 2m. An alternative seems to just be a doubling (or similar) of council tax on the top two bands. But seeing Band G was properties £160-320k in 1991 to me seems unlikely as in some areas that would be a tax on properties sub £500k.
You then have salary sacrifice on pension contributions to be restricted (muted to be £2k per annum).
A further extension to the freeze on the personal allowance and income tax bands.
Axing of the two child benefit cap.
And muted by some:
Levy on EV's
Change to inheritance tax regarding gifts (having a lifetime limit).
Anything anyone else heard?
CGT to align with your tax band.
Dividend tax to increase.0 -
I hadn't heard that, any impact on the seven year rule would be interesting. As would any backdating but one would assume it wouldn't be retrospectively applied and would come in at the start of the next tax year? If that's the case there will be plenty of kids getting windfalls before April!Rob7Lee said:Well the budgets just two days away and the ever dropping of hints seems to have continued for the last few days.So the latest seems to be varied gossip about the 'mansion tax'. Latest consensus seems to be some kind of tax (possibly following revaluation) on the top 2 or even 3 council tax bands, properties over 1.5m or 2m. An alternative seems to just be a doubling (or similar) of council tax on the top two bands. But seeing Band G was properties £160-320k in 1991 to me seems unlikely as in some areas that would be a tax on properties sub £500k.
You then have salary sacrifice on pension contributions to be restricted (muted to be £2k per annum).
A further extension to the freeze on the personal allowance and income tax bands.
Axing of the two child benefit cap.
And muted by some:
Levy on EV's
Change to inheritance tax regarding gifts (having a lifetime limit).
Anything anyone else heard?
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The Labour party are basically a Socialist Party. Help for the worker in pay rises & sod the bosses. Help for the downtrodden & poor no matter who has to pay for itSouthbank said:
Every single one a disincentive to work hard and save. People who do are punished and people who do not are rewarded with money taken from those who do.Rob7Lee said:Well the budgets just two days away and the ever dropping of hints seems to have continued for the last few days.So the latest seems to be varied gossip about the 'mansion tax'. Latest consensus seems to be some kind of tax (possibly following revaluation) on the top 2 or even 3 council tax bands, properties over 1.5m or 2m. An alternative seems to just be a doubling (or similar) of council tax on the top two bands. But seeing Band G was properties £160-320k in 1991 to me seems unlikely as in some areas that would be a tax on properties sub £500k.
You then have salary sacrifice on pension contributions to be restricted (muted to be £2k per annum).
A further extension to the freeze on the personal allowance and income tax bands.
Axing of the two child benefit cap.
And muted by some:
Levy on EV's
Change to inheritance tax regarding gifts (having a lifetime limit).
Anything anyone else heard?
I was watching a YouTube clip earlier showing an interview with Michael Foot during the 1983 General Election. Taking about the Labour manifesto & what their first budget would look like. He dismissed that they would put up taxes and said they would borrow the money instead.1 -
The EV mileage one will be a plan for a plan only I suspect. But in honesty needs to happen to plug the future inevitable falling revenues from petrol / diesel.0
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Heavily taxing gambling seems an easy win/no brainer to me. Massive £££££ earner and, potentially, might help address a huge social problem.
I’ve also always wondered why the UK doesn’t tax lottery winnings in the same way they do in USA. Again, seems an easy win, would be a big earner and doesn’t even take actual money off the public (as the winner didn’t have anything until the point their numbers came up, so they still get £20m of the £40m win even if taxed at 50%).Am I wrong?2 -
Rumours that the 7 year rule might be reduced to 3 or 4.bobmunro said:
I hadn't heard that, any impact on the seven year rule would be interesting. As would any backdating but one would assume it wouldn't be retrospectively applied and would come in at the start of the next tax year? If that's the case there will be plenty of kids getting windfalls before April!Rob7Lee said:Well the budgets just two days away and the ever dropping of hints seems to have continued for the last few days.So the latest seems to be varied gossip about the 'mansion tax'. Latest consensus seems to be some kind of tax (possibly following revaluation) on the top 2 or even 3 council tax bands, properties over 1.5m or 2m. An alternative seems to just be a doubling (or similar) of council tax on the top two bands. But seeing Band G was properties £160-320k in 1991 to me seems unlikely as in some areas that would be a tax on properties sub £500k.
You then have salary sacrifice on pension contributions to be restricted (muted to be £2k per annum).
A further extension to the freeze on the personal allowance and income tax bands.
Axing of the two child benefit cap.
And muted by some:
Levy on EV's
Change to inheritance tax regarding gifts (having a lifetime limit).
Anything anyone else heard?
Even stronger rumours that the Residential Nil Rate Band could be abolished.0 -
If all of those came in (and this is the first time I've written this down/said it out loud/strongly thought it) I would start looking at relocation options.Rob7Lee said:Well the budgets just two days away and the ever dropping of hints seems to have continued for the last few days.So the latest seems to be varied gossip about the 'mansion tax'. Latest consensus seems to be some kind of tax (possibly following revaluation) on the top 2 or even 3 council tax bands, properties over 1.5m or 2m. An alternative seems to just be a doubling (or similar) of council tax on the top two bands. But seeing Band G was properties £160-320k in 1991 to me seems unlikely as in some areas that would be a tax on properties sub £500k.
You then have salary sacrifice on pension contributions to be restricted (muted to be £2k per annum).
A further extension to the freeze on the personal allowance and income tax bands.
Axing of the two child benefit cap.
And muted by some:
Levy on EV's
Change to inheritance tax regarding gifts (having a lifetime limit).
Anything anyone else heard?
Although Covered End perfectly summed up my views in his post further up the page, I would add that this looks like it might become a kind of budget where each individual thing on its own is a slap in the face that you can deal with, but that you will have many slaps coming your way if you work hard and want to do what society traditionally asked of you.
Doubling my council tax whilst restricting pension contributions (right as I start being able to contribute), whilst hitting me with fiscal drag and spending more rather than cutting public spending is something I wouldn't be able to tolerate.1 -
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Surely reducing the 7 year rule to 3 or 4 is a tax giveaway? Unlikely!?golfaddick said:
Rumours that the 7 year rule might be reduced to 3 or 4.bobmunro said:
I hadn't heard that, any impact on the seven year rule would be interesting. As would any backdating but one would assume it wouldn't be retrospectively applied and would come in at the start of the next tax year? If that's the case there will be plenty of kids getting windfalls before April!Rob7Lee said:Well the budgets just two days away and the ever dropping of hints seems to have continued for the last few days.So the latest seems to be varied gossip about the 'mansion tax'. Latest consensus seems to be some kind of tax (possibly following revaluation) on the top 2 or even 3 council tax bands, properties over 1.5m or 2m. An alternative seems to just be a doubling (or similar) of council tax on the top two bands. But seeing Band G was properties £160-320k in 1991 to me seems unlikely as in some areas that would be a tax on properties sub £500k.
You then have salary sacrifice on pension contributions to be restricted (muted to be £2k per annum).
A further extension to the freeze on the personal allowance and income tax bands.
Axing of the two child benefit cap.
And muted by some:
Levy on EV's
Change to inheritance tax regarding gifts (having a lifetime limit).
Anything anyone else heard?
Even stronger rumours that the Residential Nil Rate Band could be abolished.
If the Residential nil rate band goes that probably helps the decision for me. I either need to load up on debt or get out the county!3 -
If a lifetime gift allowance is introduced then depending on what it might be it would make sense to abolish the seven year rule anyway - I'm not even sure if it's current application raises that much extra tax revenue.Rob7Lee said:
Surely reducing the 7 year rule to 3 or 4 is a tax giveaway? Unlikely!?golfaddick said:
Rumours that the 7 year rule might be reduced to 3 or 4.bobmunro said:
I hadn't heard that, any impact on the seven year rule would be interesting. As would any backdating but one would assume it wouldn't be retrospectively applied and would come in at the start of the next tax year? If that's the case there will be plenty of kids getting windfalls before April!Rob7Lee said:Well the budgets just two days away and the ever dropping of hints seems to have continued for the last few days.So the latest seems to be varied gossip about the 'mansion tax'. Latest consensus seems to be some kind of tax (possibly following revaluation) on the top 2 or even 3 council tax bands, properties over 1.5m or 2m. An alternative seems to just be a doubling (or similar) of council tax on the top two bands. But seeing Band G was properties £160-320k in 1991 to me seems unlikely as in some areas that would be a tax on properties sub £500k.
You then have salary sacrifice on pension contributions to be restricted (muted to be £2k per annum).
A further extension to the freeze on the personal allowance and income tax bands.
Axing of the two child benefit cap.
And muted by some:
Levy on EV's
Change to inheritance tax regarding gifts (having a lifetime limit).
Anything anyone else heard?
Even stronger rumours that the Residential Nil Rate Band could be abolished.
If the Residential nil rate band goes that probably helps the decision for me. I either need to load up on debt or get out the county!It would certainly make me think long and hard, although the reality now is that RNRB starts to disappear anyway for estates worth in excess of £2m - a figure that will already be breached by a lot of people based on property values in some parts of the country AND the inclusion now of pension in IHT calculations.0 -
I suspect it raises a bit as most people misunderstand the taper and ordering.bobmunro said:
If a lifetime gift allowance is introduced then depending on what it might be it would make sense to abolish the seven year rule anyway - I'm not even sure if it's current application raises that much extra tax revenue.Rob7Lee said:
Surely reducing the 7 year rule to 3 or 4 is a tax giveaway? Unlikely!?golfaddick said:
Rumours that the 7 year rule might be reduced to 3 or 4.bobmunro said:
I hadn't heard that, any impact on the seven year rule would be interesting. As would any backdating but one would assume it wouldn't be retrospectively applied and would come in at the start of the next tax year? If that's the case there will be plenty of kids getting windfalls before April!Rob7Lee said:Well the budgets just two days away and the ever dropping of hints seems to have continued for the last few days.So the latest seems to be varied gossip about the 'mansion tax'. Latest consensus seems to be some kind of tax (possibly following revaluation) on the top 2 or even 3 council tax bands, properties over 1.5m or 2m. An alternative seems to just be a doubling (or similar) of council tax on the top two bands. But seeing Band G was properties £160-320k in 1991 to me seems unlikely as in some areas that would be a tax on properties sub £500k.
You then have salary sacrifice on pension contributions to be restricted (muted to be £2k per annum).
A further extension to the freeze on the personal allowance and income tax bands.
Axing of the two child benefit cap.
And muted by some:
Levy on EV's
Change to inheritance tax regarding gifts (having a lifetime limit).
Anything anyone else heard?
Even stronger rumours that the Residential Nil Rate Band could be abolished.
If the Residential nil rate band goes that probably helps the decision for me. I either need to load up on debt or get out the county!It would certainly make me think long and hard, although the reality now is that RNRB starts to disappear anyway for estates worth in excess of £2m - a figure that will already be breached by a lot of people based on property values in some parts of the country AND the inclusion now of pension in IHT calculations.
if you die within the 7 years gifts are counted first, ie unless you have gifted more than £325k all that gift does is use up some/all of the nil rate band. Ie give away £325k today, die in 6 years time, you’ve saved nothing as the gift simply uses the nil rate band, no taper.
Ive dealt with two estates that fell foul of that,
yes that’s very true about the RNRB and the £2m.In a little over 24 hours I’ll know how much my pants have been pulled down 😂0 -
Papers today are saying the lady from accounts is going to reduce the cash isa limit to £12000.
I'm not clear - do you think the overall isa limit will stay at £20000 of which only £12000 can be invested in cash or the overall limit will be reduced to £12000?0 -
Just want to challenge this bit. This version of the labour party is anything but socialist. Can you point at any specific policy they have done that meets even the loosest definition of socialism? For all the talk of supporting (or rather not harming) working people none of their policy has actually followed this. Removing the 2 child benefit cap, if they follow through with it, will be the first thing they do in a remotely socialist direction. By any independent measure this labour government on both economic and social policy are still pushing hard capitalist, support big business, low welfare, low regulation, cuts in spending, low govt intervention, low service provision, high levels of private sector involvement, anti immigration messages and agenda. The direct opposite of socialism. If the only reference point is the US system then elements may look socialist but the reality is if you compare to say the European model, which isn't even socialism, then it looks like extreme capitalism - or rather beyond, we stopped existing in a capitalist system at least 10 years ago. History will probably call this period oligopoly capitalism, or techno-feudalism so something on those lines.golfaddick said:
The Labour party are basically a Socialist Party. Help for the worker in pay rises & sod the bosses. Help for the downtrodden & poor no matter who has to pay for itSouthbank said:
Every single one a disincentive to work hard and save. People who do are punished and people who do not are rewarded with money taken from those who do.Rob7Lee said:Well the budgets just two days away and the ever dropping of hints seems to have continued for the last few days.So the latest seems to be varied gossip about the 'mansion tax'. Latest consensus seems to be some kind of tax (possibly following revaluation) on the top 2 or even 3 council tax bands, properties over 1.5m or 2m. An alternative seems to just be a doubling (or similar) of council tax on the top two bands. But seeing Band G was properties £160-320k in 1991 to me seems unlikely as in some areas that would be a tax on properties sub £500k.
You then have salary sacrifice on pension contributions to be restricted (muted to be £2k per annum).
A further extension to the freeze on the personal allowance and income tax bands.
Axing of the two child benefit cap.
And muted by some:
Levy on EV's
Change to inheritance tax regarding gifts (having a lifetime limit).
Anything anyone else heard?
I was watching a YouTube clip earlier showing an interview with Michael Foot during the 1983 General Election. Taking about the Labour manifesto & what their first budget would look like. He dismissed that they would put up taxes and said they would borrow the money instead.
Back on this labour govt their issue is that their manifesto promise of not (directly) hurting working people, plus their self imposed ridiculous fiscal rules means they have backed themselves into a corner. Every fiscal event they are looking to raise some cash to satisfy their self imposed formula but they've promised not to do it to income tax, they wont do it to large multinationals because they funded their election campaign so they are stuck squeezing small businesses and the middle classes - the very people you shouldn't squeeze. Which is largely what has happened for the last 15 years. It just feels so much worse because its coming on the back of 15 years of the same thing. People wanted something different but ended up with the same.
For all the talk of change we have ended up with exactly the same as we have had over the last 15 years.1 -
Fortune 82nd Minute said:Papers today are saying the lady from accounts is going to reduce the cash isa limit to £12000.
I'm not clear - do you think the overall isa limit will stay at £20000 of which only £12000 can be invested in cash or the overall limit will be reduced to £12000?Who knows? The story so it goes is to try to encourage investment in UK PLC and consequently incentivise SS rather than cash ISAs, and on that basis any reduction in annual allowance will probably be restricted to cash.In that case, what happens if I invest £20k in a SS ISA - leave it as cash and then port it to a Cash ISA? Can I only transfer £12k and must either leave the £8k invested or get it sent back to me and now out of the ISA wrapper? Or another scenario - I've built up a healthy balance in SS ISAs and as I approach retirement I want to switch it all to Cash ISAs that's going to pay more than the interest earned when cash is held in a SS ISA?Going to be a nightmare to administer if that is the route forward.6 -
I’m torn on the 2 child cap thing.cantersaddick said:
Just want to challenge this bit. This version of the labour party is anything but socialist. Can you point at any specific policy they have done that meets even the loosest definition of socialism? For all the talk of supporting (or rather not harming) working people none of their policy has actually followed this. Removing the 2 child benefit cap, if they follow through with it, will be the first thing they do in a remotely socialist direction. By any independent measure this labour government on both economic and social policy are still pushing hard capitalist, support big business, low welfare, low regulation, cuts in spending, low govt intervention, low service provision, high levels of private sector involvement, anti immigration messages and agenda. The direct opposite of socialism. If the only reference point is the US system then elements may look socialist but the reality is if you compare to say the European model, which isn't even socialism, then it looks like extreme capitalism - or rather beyond, we stopped existing in a capitalist system at least 10 years ago. History will probably call this period oligopoly capitalism, or techno-feudalism so something on those lines.golfaddick said:
The Labour party are basically a Socialist Party. Help for the worker in pay rises & sod the bosses. Help for the downtrodden & poor no matter who has to pay for itSouthbank said:
Every single one a disincentive to work hard and save. People who do are punished and people who do not are rewarded with money taken from those who do.Rob7Lee said:Well the budgets just two days away and the ever dropping of hints seems to have continued for the last few days.So the latest seems to be varied gossip about the 'mansion tax'. Latest consensus seems to be some kind of tax (possibly following revaluation) on the top 2 or even 3 council tax bands, properties over 1.5m or 2m. An alternative seems to just be a doubling (or similar) of council tax on the top two bands. But seeing Band G was properties £160-320k in 1991 to me seems unlikely as in some areas that would be a tax on properties sub £500k.
You then have salary sacrifice on pension contributions to be restricted (muted to be £2k per annum).
A further extension to the freeze on the personal allowance and income tax bands.
Axing of the two child benefit cap.
And muted by some:
Levy on EV's
Change to inheritance tax regarding gifts (having a lifetime limit).
Anything anyone else heard?
I was watching a YouTube clip earlier showing an interview with Michael Foot during the 1983 General Election. Taking about the Labour manifesto & what their first budget would look like. He dismissed that they would put up taxes and said they would borrow the money instead.
Back on this labour govt their issue is that their manifesto promise of not (directly) hurting working people, plus their self imposed ridiculous fiscal rules means they have backed themselves into a corner. Every fiscal event they are looking to raise some cash to satisfy their self imposed formula but they've promised not to do it to income tax, they wont do it to large multinationals because they funded their election campaign so they are stuck squeezing small businesses and the middle classes - the very people you shouldn't squeeze. Which is largely what has happened for the last 15 years. It just feels so much worse because its coming on the back of 15 years of the same thing. People wanted something different but ended up with the same.
For all the talk of change we have ended up with exactly the same as we have had over the last 15 years.Of course we don’t want child poverty but…
The child benefit was effectively tapered out at £50k anyway and no longer is that a ‘big’ salary. But I get it’s a universal credit thing as well when out of work too and then a more significant element.But I could never have consciously financially planned for more than 2 kids on a good salary etc. So those who choose to have larger families without financial security / big comfort in their budgets are I think at odds with most people’s approach to sensible life choices.Of course there are exceptions of accident / death / multiple births (twins etc) which place unexpected strain on some households but these must be the exceptions to the rule.Maybe the change will be an allowance for multiple births and the cap upped to 3 in certain circumstances (and not a blanket raise) in an effort to manage the cost and still offer necessary support?1 -
I agree, a couple months back the talk was reducing the cash ISA limit to £4k which was mad so this is better (or less bad).bobmunro said:Fortune 82nd Minute said:Papers today are saying the lady from accounts is going to reduce the cash isa limit to £12000.
I'm not clear - do you think the overall isa limit will stay at £20000 of which only £12000 can be invested in cash or the overall limit will be reduced to £12000?Who knows? The story so it goes is to try to encourage investment in UK PLC and consequently incentivise SS rather than cash ISAs, and on that basis any reduction in annual allowance will probably be restricted to cash.In that case, what happens if I invest £20k in a SS ISA - leave it as cash and then port it to a Cash ISA? Can I only transfer £12k and must either leave the £8k invested or get it sent back to me and now out of the ISA wrapper? Or another scenario - I've built up a healthy balance in SS ISAs and as I approach retirement I want to switch it all to Cash ISAs that's going to pay more than the interest earned when cash is held in a SS ISA?Going to be a nightmare to administer if that is the route forward.
Your point about it being a nightmare to administer is the key one for me. Without massive reform to the tax system all of these fiddling around the edges changes might raise a bit of cash but make the system exponentially more complicated and therefore more expensive to run and easy to find loopholes and avoid tax through smoke and mirrors.2 -
Don't want to start a whole side path on this issue but a couple of thoughts.valleynick66 said:
I’m torn on the 2 child cap thing.cantersaddick said:
Just want to challenge this bit. This version of the labour party is anything but socialist. Can you point at any specific policy they have done that meets even the loosest definition of socialism? For all the talk of supporting (or rather not harming) working people none of their policy has actually followed this. Removing the 2 child benefit cap, if they follow through with it, will be the first thing they do in a remotely socialist direction. By any independent measure this labour government on both economic and social policy are still pushing hard capitalist, support big business, low welfare, low regulation, cuts in spending, low govt intervention, low service provision, high levels of private sector involvement, anti immigration messages and agenda. The direct opposite of socialism. If the only reference point is the US system then elements may look socialist but the reality is if you compare to say the European model, which isn't even socialism, then it looks like extreme capitalism - or rather beyond, we stopped existing in a capitalist system at least 10 years ago. History will probably call this period oligopoly capitalism, or techno-feudalism so something on those lines.golfaddick said:
The Labour party are basically a Socialist Party. Help for the worker in pay rises & sod the bosses. Help for the downtrodden & poor no matter who has to pay for itSouthbank said:
Every single one a disincentive to work hard and save. People who do are punished and people who do not are rewarded with money taken from those who do.Rob7Lee said:Well the budgets just two days away and the ever dropping of hints seems to have continued for the last few days.So the latest seems to be varied gossip about the 'mansion tax'. Latest consensus seems to be some kind of tax (possibly following revaluation) on the top 2 or even 3 council tax bands, properties over 1.5m or 2m. An alternative seems to just be a doubling (or similar) of council tax on the top two bands. But seeing Band G was properties £160-320k in 1991 to me seems unlikely as in some areas that would be a tax on properties sub £500k.
You then have salary sacrifice on pension contributions to be restricted (muted to be £2k per annum).
A further extension to the freeze on the personal allowance and income tax bands.
Axing of the two child benefit cap.
And muted by some:
Levy on EV's
Change to inheritance tax regarding gifts (having a lifetime limit).
Anything anyone else heard?
I was watching a YouTube clip earlier showing an interview with Michael Foot during the 1983 General Election. Taking about the Labour manifesto & what their first budget would look like. He dismissed that they would put up taxes and said they would borrow the money instead.
Back on this labour govt their issue is that their manifesto promise of not (directly) hurting working people, plus their self imposed ridiculous fiscal rules means they have backed themselves into a corner. Every fiscal event they are looking to raise some cash to satisfy their self imposed formula but they've promised not to do it to income tax, they wont do it to large multinationals because they funded their election campaign so they are stuck squeezing small businesses and the middle classes - the very people you shouldn't squeeze. Which is largely what has happened for the last 15 years. It just feels so much worse because its coming on the back of 15 years of the same thing. People wanted something different but ended up with the same.
For all the talk of change we have ended up with exactly the same as we have had over the last 15 years.Of course we don’t want child poverty but…
The child benefit was effectively tapered out at £50k anyway and no longer is that a ‘big’ salary. But I get it’s a universal credit thing as well when out of work too and then a more significant element.But I could never have consciously financially planned for more than 2 kids on a good salary etc. So those who choose to have larger families without financial security / big comfort in their budgets are I think at odds with most people’s approach to sensible life choices.Of course there are exceptions of accident / death / multiple births (twins etc) which place unexpected strain on some households but these must be the exceptions to the rule.Maybe the change will be an allowance for multiple births and the cap upped to 3 in certain circumstances (and not a blanket raise) in an effort to manage the cost and still offer necessary support?
I don't disagree that there needs to be an element of personal responsibility for choices. but if you include job loss as an unforeseen change in circumstances that could lead to needing more help even temporarily then I don't think these will be a minority exception.
I think we need to change the way we think about this. We shouldn't be punishing children for their parents circumstances.
I think there is also an untrue perception that it is laziness or people out of work when that's not the case - DWP data shows 59% of families affected by the two-child limit are working.
https://cpag.org.uk/news/1-million-children-working-families-now-hit-two-child-limit
Overall I think we need to see this as an investment in those children and in preventing this becoming intergenerational. If there is a family with 4 kids reliant on state help but hit by the limit and therefore the kids have worse educational, health and general societal outcomes and in a generations time we are dealing with 4 adults or 4 families who are reliant on state support. The problem only gets larger if you don't end the cycle.0 -
Hence my comment on exceptions / subject to circumstances.cantersaddick said:
Don't want to start a whole side path on this issue but a couple of thoughts.valleynick66 said:
I’m torn on the 2 child cap thing.cantersaddick said:
Just want to challenge this bit. This version of the labour party is anything but socialist. Can you point at any specific policy they have done that meets even the loosest definition of socialism? For all the talk of supporting (or rather not harming) working people none of their policy has actually followed this. Removing the 2 child benefit cap, if they follow through with it, will be the first thing they do in a remotely socialist direction. By any independent measure this labour government on both economic and social policy are still pushing hard capitalist, support big business, low welfare, low regulation, cuts in spending, low govt intervention, low service provision, high levels of private sector involvement, anti immigration messages and agenda. The direct opposite of socialism. If the only reference point is the US system then elements may look socialist but the reality is if you compare to say the European model, which isn't even socialism, then it looks like extreme capitalism - or rather beyond, we stopped existing in a capitalist system at least 10 years ago. History will probably call this period oligopoly capitalism, or techno-feudalism so something on those lines.golfaddick said:
The Labour party are basically a Socialist Party. Help for the worker in pay rises & sod the bosses. Help for the downtrodden & poor no matter who has to pay for itSouthbank said:
Every single one a disincentive to work hard and save. People who do are punished and people who do not are rewarded with money taken from those who do.Rob7Lee said:Well the budgets just two days away and the ever dropping of hints seems to have continued for the last few days.So the latest seems to be varied gossip about the 'mansion tax'. Latest consensus seems to be some kind of tax (possibly following revaluation) on the top 2 or even 3 council tax bands, properties over 1.5m or 2m. An alternative seems to just be a doubling (or similar) of council tax on the top two bands. But seeing Band G was properties £160-320k in 1991 to me seems unlikely as in some areas that would be a tax on properties sub £500k.
You then have salary sacrifice on pension contributions to be restricted (muted to be £2k per annum).
A further extension to the freeze on the personal allowance and income tax bands.
Axing of the two child benefit cap.
And muted by some:
Levy on EV's
Change to inheritance tax regarding gifts (having a lifetime limit).
Anything anyone else heard?
I was watching a YouTube clip earlier showing an interview with Michael Foot during the 1983 General Election. Taking about the Labour manifesto & what their first budget would look like. He dismissed that they would put up taxes and said they would borrow the money instead.
Back on this labour govt their issue is that their manifesto promise of not (directly) hurting working people, plus their self imposed ridiculous fiscal rules means they have backed themselves into a corner. Every fiscal event they are looking to raise some cash to satisfy their self imposed formula but they've promised not to do it to income tax, they wont do it to large multinationals because they funded their election campaign so they are stuck squeezing small businesses and the middle classes - the very people you shouldn't squeeze. Which is largely what has happened for the last 15 years. It just feels so much worse because its coming on the back of 15 years of the same thing. People wanted something different but ended up with the same.
For all the talk of change we have ended up with exactly the same as we have had over the last 15 years.Of course we don’t want child poverty but…
The child benefit was effectively tapered out at £50k anyway and no longer is that a ‘big’ salary. But I get it’s a universal credit thing as well when out of work too and then a more significant element.But I could never have consciously financially planned for more than 2 kids on a good salary etc. So those who choose to have larger families without financial security / big comfort in their budgets are I think at odds with most people’s approach to sensible life choices.Of course there are exceptions of accident / death / multiple births (twins etc) which place unexpected strain on some households but these must be the exceptions to the rule.Maybe the change will be an allowance for multiple births and the cap upped to 3 in certain circumstances (and not a blanket raise) in an effort to manage the cost and still offer necessary support?
I don't disagree that there needs to be an element of personal responsibility for choices. but if you include job loss as an unforeseen change in circumstances that could lead to needing more help even temporarily then I don't think these will be a minority exception.
I think we need to change the way we think about this. We shouldn't be punishing children for their parents circumstances.
I think there is also an untrue perception that it is laziness or people out of work when that's not the case - DWP data shows 59% of families affected by the two-child limit are working.
https://cpag.org.uk/news/1-million-children-working-families-now-hit-two-child-limit
Overall I think we need to see this as an investment in those children and in preventing this becoming intergenerational. If there is a family with 4 kids reliant on state help but hit by the limit and therefore the kids have worse educational, health and general societal outcomes and in a generations time we are dealing with 4 adults or 4 families who are reliant on state support. The problem only gets larger if you don't end the cycle.Maybe we need to publish the numbers to adjust public perception. How many families with 3 and 4 and more kids etc and with / without multiple births involved ?
If we can show it’s relatively few who ‘abuse’ the system it would land better.1
