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Savings and Investments thread
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I’ll update tonight and post here when I’m home with today’s close number.PragueAddick said:FTSE 100 pushing all time high. Anyone forecast that in July?0 -
Yes there’s a few around the 11,000 mark including me at 10,999 I think.PragueAddick said:FTSE 100 pushing all time high. Anyone forecast that in July?0 -
I think the main issue around this debate imo is framing the conversation of tax and inequalities around income rather than wealth.
High earners do pay a higher proportion of income in tax and whilst there may be other things they are better placed to take advantage of those things are not necessarily specifically aimed at high earners.
But framing the conversation around earnings excludes a growing chunk of society who don't derive most of their annual increase in wealth from earnings but from other means. Those are the people who proportionally pay a much smaller proportion in tax. The conversation needs to adapt to the realities of a modern split economy rather than continue to be framed on a 1980s lense in my view.1 -
But I was told a crash was happening, could they have been wrong, yet again?PragueAddick said:FTSE 100 pushing all time high. Anyone forecast that in July?
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On annual increase in wealth not coming from income, can you give examples of where that increase doesn’t attract some form of taxation? (Asking for a friend…….😉) unless you mean paper growth/unrealised gains.cantersaddick said:I think the main issue around this debate imo is framing the conversation of tax and inequalities around income rather than wealth.
High earners do pay a higher proportion of income in tax and whilst there may be other things they are better placed to take advantage of those things are not necessarily specifically aimed at high earners.
But framing the conversation around earnings excludes a growing chunk of society who don't derive most of their annual increase in wealth from earnings but from other means. Those are the people who proportionally pay a much smaller proportion in tax. The conversation needs to adapt to the realities of a modern split economy rather than continue to be framed on a 1980s lense in my view.
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I didn't say they don't attract some for of tax rather that people who get their annual increase in wealth from these means proportionally pay a much smaller proportion in tax.Rob7Lee said:
On annual increase in wealth not coming from income, can you give examples of where that increase doesn’t attract some form of taxation? (Asking for a friend…….😉) unless you mean paper growth/unrealised gains.cantersaddick said:I think the main issue around this debate imo is framing the conversation of tax and inequalities around income rather than wealth.
High earners do pay a higher proportion of income in tax and whilst there may be other things they are better placed to take advantage of those things are not necessarily specifically aimed at high earners.
But framing the conversation around earnings excludes a growing chunk of society who don't derive most of their annual increase in wealth from earnings but from other means. Those are the people who proportionally pay a much smaller proportion in tax. The conversation needs to adapt to the realities of a modern split economy rather than continue to be framed on a 1980s lense in my view.
From what you've said about your circumstances I'd still imagine that the majority of your iincreasein your annual wealth comes from your work renumeration package.
And as I said the conversation needs to adapt in order to reflect the realities of a modern split economy. As such unrealised gains for the ultra rich do need to be part of the conversation as this is increasingly becoming a way of funding lifestyle. Borrowing against unrealised gains to fund lifestyle rather than having to realise the gains an pay tax is becoming increasingly common. As is leveraging these for further asset accumulation. Buy borrow die is becoming more and more common as a strategy. As such the conversation around inequalities and tax needs to adapt to include these for that select group.0 -
Primary residence, obviously. There are generally a lot more ways to avoid tax on capital gains than on income via trusts, gifts etc. Evasion is a lot easier too - much harder for HMRC to keep tabs on art, wine, furniture at appreciates in value than on income through PAYE.Rob7Lee said:
On annual increase in wealth not coming from income, can you give examples of where that increase doesn’t attract some form of taxation? (Asking for a friend…….😉) unless you mean paper growth/unrealised gains.cantersaddick said:I think the main issue around this debate imo is framing the conversation of tax and inequalities around income rather than wealth.
High earners do pay a higher proportion of income in tax and whilst there may be other things they are better placed to take advantage of those things are not necessarily specifically aimed at high earners.
But framing the conversation around earnings excludes a growing chunk of society who don't derive most of their annual increase in wealth from earnings but from other means. Those are the people who proportionally pay a much smaller proportion in tax. The conversation needs to adapt to the realities of a modern split economy rather than continue to be framed on a 1980s lense in my view.
I've not seen a convincing policy for taxing wealth - unfortunately, since placing almost all the burden on income and consumption is a huge drag on growth.0 -
You would struggle to do any of those on a low income.Jints said:
Primary residence, obviously. There are generally a lot more ways to avoid tax on capital gains than on income via trusts, gifts etc. Evasion is a lot easier too - much harder for HMRC to keep tabs on art, wine, furniture at appreciates in value than on income through PAYE.Rob7Lee said:
On annual increase in wealth not coming from income, can you give examples of where that increase doesn’t attract some form of taxation? (Asking for a friend…….😉) unless you mean paper growth/unrealised gains.cantersaddick said:I think the main issue around this debate imo is framing the conversation of tax and inequalities around income rather than wealth.
High earners do pay a higher proportion of income in tax and whilst there may be other things they are better placed to take advantage of those things are not necessarily specifically aimed at high earners.
But framing the conversation around earnings excludes a growing chunk of society who don't derive most of their annual increase in wealth from earnings but from other means. Those are the people who proportionally pay a much smaller proportion in tax. The conversation needs to adapt to the realities of a modern split economy rather than continue to be framed on a 1980s lense in my view.
I've not seen a convincing policy for taxing wealth - unfortunately, since placing almost all the burden on income and consumption is a huge drag on growth.
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I’d always be against taxing in any form unrealised gains, unless there was a deferral or refund at point of realisation. Just seems illogical to me. What next, tax me on my payrise this tax year that I may or may not get next tax year......cantersaddick said:
I didn't say they don't attract some for of tax rather that people who get their annual increase in wealth from these means proportionally pay a much smaller proportion in tax.Rob7Lee said:
On annual increase in wealth not coming from income, can you give examples of where that increase doesn’t attract some form of taxation? (Asking for a friend…….😉) unless you mean paper growth/unrealised gains.cantersaddick said:I think the main issue around this debate imo is framing the conversation of tax and inequalities around income rather than wealth.
High earners do pay a higher proportion of income in tax and whilst there may be other things they are better placed to take advantage of those things are not necessarily specifically aimed at high earners.
But framing the conversation around earnings excludes a growing chunk of society who don't derive most of their annual increase in wealth from earnings but from other means. Those are the people who proportionally pay a much smaller proportion in tax. The conversation needs to adapt to the realities of a modern split economy rather than continue to be framed on a 1980s lense in my view.
From what you've said about your circumstances I'd still imagine that the majority of your iincreasein your annual wealth comes from your work renumeration package.
And as I said the conversation needs to adapt in order to reflect the realities of a modern split economy. As such unrealised gains for the ultra rich do need to be part of the conversation as this is increasingly becoming a way of funding lifestyle. Borrowing against unrealised gains to fund lifestyle rather than having to realise the gains an pay tax is becoming increasingly common. As is leveraging these for further asset accumulation. Buy borrow die is becoming more and more common as a strategy. As such the conversation around inequalities and tax needs to adapt to include these for that select group.
My wealth the past five years (if not longer) has grown far far more (multiples of) from my non PAYE earned income (from SIPP and a few other investments) than my earned, as has my wife's. A result of 38 years at work and for the vast majority of that time some form of saving and/or investing that has and continues to compound.
There is nothing wrong with leveraging asset. When I moved in 2021 I could of done so just about without a mortgage (having paid off my last one some 10 or so years before). But the bank were happy to lend to me at 0.99% for 5 years meaning I could leave invested that money and achieve what's turned out to be more than 15X the interest charged. I've just renewed, this time to a mortgage I can pay off at any time, no tie in. But the more I think about it, especially with IHT, i'm tempted to keep it running as long as humanly possible if not increase the debt. Sort of a self built equity release.
Not sure of your age, but stoozing was a great way of sweating someone else's asset (I still do it to a minor degree, not like it was when good old egg money existed).0 -
Wealth taxes are a thorny issue. I know a number of ex-colleagues who have probably amassed a reasonable amount of wealth through high salaries, cash bonuses, incentive options etc. Some have spouses who had equivalent well remunerated careers. On all those income streams they will have paid the appropriate tax, much of it at the higher rate. If they have then invested after tax income in the stock market or in cash deposits, etc again they will have paid the appropriate taxes on any dividend or interest income.
I wouldn't be surprised if some of them individually, or in aggregate with their partners, have amassed wealth above the threshold sometimes mentioned as a possible trigger point for the payment of a wealth tax. Yes, they are wealthy by the majority of peoples standards, but they are not the mega rich that I think most people are thinking about when the subject of wealth taxes comes up (although I could be wrong). These are the individuals who most likely will not depart these shores for a lower tax jurisdiction, unlike the mega wealthy.
I have the same view of Rob7Lee on taxing unrealised gains, which is effectively what would be part of a wealth tax calculation. In the last couple of years there have been big swings in the stock market. If you tax someone on a paper gain, for example, its value on the last day of the tax year, the very next day it could be valued substantially less.
I have no problem with CGT rates on realised gains being equalised with income tax rates.1 -
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Have had a good year on PBs vs previous years. Won £250 this month and £275 in September, and £550 across the rest of the year, starting it with just under 23k.2
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Id like to see modelled a regularisation of tax thresholds i.e. adjusted for inflation, a penny more income tax for additional rate payers (i.e. the very highest) and harmonising CGT and Income Tax rates. Remembering that those at the bottom end who benefit will spend that extra cash and it will circulate within the economy more than at the other end of the scale.
No idea if that is net nil or cash positive but feels 'fair' and an easy sell to the public if its positive overall. It would be a step towards resolving the perception of the top end not paying their way. Losing some of your savings to more tax is easier to swallow than losing your (needed) disposable income to tax.
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Tech and Nasdaq taking a hammering today.0
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More info coming out of the US mid-terms. Beyond congress, a lot of state legislatures have flipped and data centres looks like one of the main voting issues.Diebythesword said:Tech and Nasdaq taking a hammering today.1 -
Easy come, easy go.golfaddick said:Markets taking Trumps humiliation in their stride 😀. Everything is up, up, up.0 -
Quite pleased with how my small caps are holding up, comparatively.mcgrandall said:
More info coming out of the US mid-terms. Beyond congress, a lot of state legislatures have flipped and data centres looks like one of the main voting issues.Diebythesword said:Tech and Nasdaq taking a hammering today.0 -
My boss is out in NY and I know you won’t believe me but this was my note to him at 8pm last night;Diebythesword said:Tech and Nasdaq taking a hammering today.
“AI shares are going down the pan short term, I’ve reduced US exposure a lot this evening.”
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As we stand today
FTSE100 Level 10,782.66 Name Level Variance % Variance Covered End 10,758 24.66 0.23% blackpool72 10,820 37.34 0.35% fat man on a moped 10,832 49.34 0.46% Pedro45 10,724 58.66 0.54% GRAY9 10,711 71.66 0.66% thecat 10,855 72.34 0.67% bobmunro 10,876 93.34 0.87% Addickinedi 10,888 105.34 0.98% Jon_CAFC_ 10,677 105.66 0.98% Housty 10,896 113.34 1.05% golfaddick 10,897 114.34 1.06% Miserableoldgit 10,901 118.34 1.10% Solidgone 10,902 119.34 1.11% Carter 10,910 127.34 1.18% wwaddick 10,600 182.66 1.69% HardyAddick 10,598 184.66 1.71% CAFCWest 10,995 212.34 1.97% CharltonKerry 10,999 216.34 2.01% Jamescafc 11,000 217.34 2.02% LargeAddick 11,001 218.34 2.02% guinnessaddick 11,011 228.34 2.12% Thread Killer 11,017 234.34 2.17% StrikerFirmani 11,024 241.34 2.24% LonelyNorthernAddick 11,100 317.34 2.94% Addick Addict 10,464 318.66 2.96% WHAddick 11,111 328.34 3.05% valleynick66 11,154 371.34 3.44% Rob7Lee 10,400 382.66 3.55% PragueAddick 11,175 392.34 3.64% @TelMc32 11,200 417.34 3.87% Fortune 82nd Minute 11,215 432.34 4.01% IdleHans 11,230 447.34 4.15% Redman 10,167 615.66 5.71% Lenglover 9,999 783.66 7.27% Huskaris 11,649 866.34 8.03% Er_Be_Ab_Pl_Wo_Wo_Ch 7,500 3282.66 30.44% 0 -
I'm not an expert but I would say that Er_Be_Ab_Pl_Wo_Wo_Ch is going to struggle to win3
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Every dog has their day, just hoping not this year!Addick Addict said:I'm not an expert but I would say that Er_Be_Ab_Pl_Wo_Wo_Ch is going to struggle to win0 -
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Yes, my prediction is based on the broken clock being right once - until then I will be finishing in last place by some distance!
Though I do expect a global stock market crash of epic proportion. Could be this year, next year, maybe later - but within a time horizon that matters to me.0 -
You spoke to soon you silly fool 🙄😀.PragueAddick said:FTSE 100 pushing all time high. Anyone forecast that in July?
At 2.30 pm today the FTSE100 was at 10,920
At 3.30 pm it was back to where it started the day
At 4.30 pm it closed at 10,782
The US is a bloodbath this evening.
The Dow Jones down 3.44%
The S&P500 down 4.36%
The Nasdaq down 5.52%.
Bloody Americans !2 -
I think yesterday in the US highlights this quite simply.robinofottershaw said:Wealth taxes are a thorny issue. I know a number of ex-colleagues who have probably amassed a reasonable amount of wealth through high salaries, cash bonuses, incentive options etc. Some have spouses who had equivalent well remunerated careers. On all those income streams they will have paid the appropriate tax, much of it at the higher rate. If they have then invested after tax income in the stock market or in cash deposits, etc again they will have paid the appropriate taxes on any dividend or interest income.
I wouldn't be surprised if some of them individually, or in aggregate with their partners, have amassed wealth above the threshold sometimes mentioned as a possible trigger point for the payment of a wealth tax. Yes, they are wealthy by the majority of peoples standards, but they are not the mega rich that I think most people are thinking about when the subject of wealth taxes comes up (although I could be wrong). These are the individuals who most likely will not depart these shores for a lower tax jurisdiction, unlike the mega wealthy.
I have the same view of Rob7Lee on taxing unrealised gains, which is effectively what would be part of a wealth tax calculation. In the last couple of years there have been big swings in the stock market. If you tax someone on a paper gain, for example, its value on the last day of the tax year, the very next day it could be valued substantially less.
I have no problem with CGT rates on realised gains being equalised with income tax rates.1 -
Yeah. Its like landing at Glasgow Airport this week.golfaddick said:
You spoke to soon you silly fool 🙄😀.PragueAddick said:FTSE 100 pushing all time high. Anyone forecast that in July?
At 2.30 pm today the FTSE100 was at 10,920
At 3.30 pm it was back to where it started the day
At 4.30 pm it closed at 10,782
The US is a bloodbath this evening.
The Dow Jones down 3.44%
The S&P500 down 4.36%
The Nasdaq down 5.52%.
Bloody Americans !
And for some reason I thought I had predicted around 10700. Turns out, that was the previous 6 months🤣0 -
a healthy £625 on 40k in PBs for me6
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Since investing most of my savings (outside of a 1 year emergency fund) into a global tracker around June last year, this is the first truly disastrous month I’ve had to endure.It’s definitely a test of resolve, but telling myself to just be patient and not be inclined to tinker.1
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It's horrible but it will recover.cafctom said:Since investing most of my savings (outside of a 1 year emergency fund) into a global tracker around June last year, this is the first truly disastrous month I’ve had to endure.It’s definitely a test of resolve, but telling myself to just be patient and not be inclined to tinker.1 -
Average they cried, they cried averageFriend Or Defoe said:
It's horrible but it will recover.cafctom said:Since investing most of my savings (outside of a 1 year emergency fund) into a global tracker around June last year, this is the first truly disastrous month I’ve had to endure.It’s definitely a test of resolve, but telling myself to just be patient and not be inclined to tinker.1 -
I haven’t looked today. Don’t want to know the bad news!0
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Rob7Lee said:
One thing I meant to check, the fixed rate ISA - they appear to pay out the interest to your linked account at maturity, so you lose that tax free wrapper for the interest, not a problem if you are spending it, but worth knowing for those who want to build not spend.bobmunro said:Rob7Lee said:
Investec are good, I’m doing quite well on their shares and also in process of switching banking to them. But check as they refer to switching a cash ISA.bobmunro said:Arsenetatters said:I've got a S & S ISA with fidelity which I wanted to change to one of their 'ready made' S and S ISAs but am having trouble sorting it and each time I phone I get a different answer. I'm getting fed up with them so am thinking of transferring it to a cash ISA somewhere else. I've already used up this year's allowance but am I OK to transfer and still keep the tax benefits from this one?Edit - it's got over £20,000 in itTo build on @Rob7Lee you will probably have to sell your investments and convert them to cash before you can transfer the funds to a Cash ISA with another provider. Also, as you have already used up this year's allowance you need to open a Cash ISA elsewhere that doesn't require 'new' money in order to open it, just the transfer.Investec are offering 4.95% fixed for one year which is about the best out there at the moment - you can transfer in without needing new money to open it.(I mention Investec so much, anyone would think I;m on commission! They really are good though.)
On fidelity, answers these simple questions, note down the suggested fund and ‘switch’ what you have to that fund:
https://www.fidelity.co.uk/ready-made-isa/?ef_id=CjwKCAjw9PvWBhAxEiwAddzYyV6-io61jXH9Es53FtIdC4pLHWcJY_VowW8iI8wc7iG4N5jxG5J5KhoC8LkQAvD_BwE:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!8153!3!786808512429!p!!g!!fidelity%20ready-made%20isa!23328986789!191231735964&utm_source=google&utm_medium=paid_search&utm_campaign=uk_brand_2026_ready-made-isa_orders&gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=23328986789&gbraid=0AAAAAD_DS9f1x2ai3tLpEy32Pm3yL4mLI&gclid=CjwKCAjw9PvWBhAxEiwAddzYyV6-io61jXH9Es53FtIdC4pLHWcJY_VowW8iI8wc7iG4N5jxG5J5KhoC8LkQAvD_BwEIt's fine as long as the transfer is in cash. I sold a lump of MMFs and transferred it to Investec from a SS ISA. Open the fixed rate Cash ISA with Investec first and then during the application stage indicate that you are transferring from another provider. Let them have the details of your existing provider, account number and amount and they will do the rest.Investec's Fixed Rate Cash ISA has updated T&Cs - any maturing from today onwards will keep the interest within the ISA wrapper.They do listen!2
