It's performance over the last 3 months seems really bad compared to all of my other funds. But I will be holding and not adding to it too.
This is one of my favourite funds, done really well for me over the 4-5 years I have held it. I can tell you why it has underperformed recently. One word. Unilever. It is its biggest holding at around 8%. Now, some time back in this thread, you’ll find the story of how we discovered that my wife still had Unielver shares from back in 2003 when she was a manager there. When I looked at the performance over time I was gobsmacked. It had trounced every index you could throw at it over time, and was an object lesson in long term investing in something you understand. Unilever shares fell because the last quarter report showed a sales fall. The last quarter...Personally I believe Unilever will sort themselves out because they sell stuff we all buy and none of it is duff. And they have a load of very smart people across the world. Dave Lewis, the guy who has turned Tesco around, came from Unilever and a lot of people scoffed that he had no retail experience.
So I am just holding, but ready to buy on the dips. I did though trim some other funds which hold the same FMCG giants as Lindsell Train, because they didnt have anything like the long term performance. LE invest in interesting things. Not sure if it is still true but you may find you are effectively a shareholder of both Celtic and Juventus!
@WishIdStayedinthePub owe you this answer. I think The Lang Cat have been around about 5 years. They tell you their history in the website, I think. As a marketing bod, I really admire their quirky approach to communications, breath of fresh air in this sector. Also, their Eastern Scottish heritage keep them grounded, not too flash. A great deal of their output goes waaaaaay over my head, the primary audience is IFAs and the platforms themselves, but their free analysis should give you an answer on things like variety of funds offered. I think for retail customers H-L and Fidelity cover everything you could reasonably want, and with good UX. On behalf of my niece I access a Standard Life Axa platform, but find it nowhere near as good on the UX front, and I think not as much fund choice either. But the Lang Cats will tell you all that.
Any advice if you have compared it to other similar funds?
I don't buy unit trusts, but bought LTI (the investment trust equivalent) as its discount hit 0% this week. He's one of the genuinely good investment managers out there. I'm with @golfaddick, Hold
@WishIdStayedinthePub owe you this answer. I think The Lang Cat have been around about 5 years. They tell you their history in the website, I think. As a marketing bod, I really admire their quirky approach to communications, breath of fresh air in this sector. Also, their Eastern Scottish heritage keep them grounded, not too flash. A great deal of their output goes waaaaaay over my head, the primary audience is IFAs and the platforms themselves, but their free analysis should give you an answer on things like variety of funds offered. I think for retail customers H-L and Fidelity cover everything you could reasonably want, and with good UX. On behalf of my niece I access a Standard Life Axa platform, but find it nowhere near as good on the UX front, and I think not as much fund choice either. But the Lang Cats will tell you all that.
Thanks for the response, @PragueAddick. Did bit of digging. I'm one degree removed from a couple of them professionally. Seem like a decent, honest bunch and definitely love their style. As you say, professional bias, so not so useful for us retail guys.
Would you rather have a final salary pension of 14k ( in today’s money ) at 65? Or 445k to invest today ?
I'm guessing you have a pension that you are thinking of transferring ??
That being the case there are probably too many improndrables to give you a definitive answer. If it was me I'd take the transfer value as you have more flexibility than with a final salary pension. This is what I usually tell my clients. It's not will the £445k give more than £14k pa (which I'm sure it will in 14 years time - even at a modest 3.5% "drawdown" figure it could give you £16k pa) but would you prefer flexibility over a guarantee.
Currently your pension gives you a known annual pension (maybe a lump sum too). But the fund is lost on your death (maybe 50% to your spouse if you're married). Whereas in your plan you (and any dependants) have access to the full amount. You could take it earlier than 65 without any penalties. You can take out more now & less later (when you start receiving the State Pension). You can alter the amount of income over time, up & down stopping & starting.
As I said......irs more to do with flexibility than replicating what the final salary scheme will give you.
FWIW.......and it's a long piece of string......I would say you could turn £445k into £800k-£1m in 14 years time.
Would you rather have a final salary pension of 14k ( in today’s money ) at 65? Or 445k to invest today ?
I'm guessing you have a pension that you are thinking of transferring ??
That being the case there are probably too many improndrables to give you a definitive answer. If it was me I'd take the transfer value as you have more flexibility than with a final salary pension. This is what I usually tell my clients. It's not will the £445k give more than £14k pa (which I'm sure it will in 14 years time - even at a modest 3.5% "drawdown" figure it could give you £16k pa) but would you prefer flexibility over a guarantee.
Currently your pension gives you a known annual pension (maybe a lump sum too). But the fund is lost on your death (maybe 50% to your spouse if you're married). Whereas in your plan you (and any dependants) have access to the full amount. You could take it earlier than 65 without any penalties. You can take out more now & less later (when you start receiving the State Pension). You can alter the amount of income over time, up & down stopping & starting.
As I said......irs more to do with flexibility than replicating what the final salary scheme will give you.
FWIW.......and it's a long piece of string......I would say you could turn £445k into £800k-£1m in 14 years time.
After pondering and for many of the reasons you have given that's what we have decided to do. I'm in the cooling off period as we speak.
FWIW, I cashed in a final salary pension around 8 years ago, at the time the pension was about £2,900. Barclays offered me £109k which I took, although for some reason paid nearly £116k when finally closed, that's now worth about £240k. So very glad I did.
Used to take advantage of the Santander 123 account, was 3% on balances up to £20k, dropped to 1.5% not long ago, now down to 1% from may. Rubbish. At least I can max my 2020/21 ISA allowance instead.
Used to take advantage of the Santander 123 account, was 3% on balances up to £20k, dropped to 1.5% not long ago, now down to 1% from may. Rubbish. At least I can max my 2020/21 ISA allowance instead.
And the cheating ***** haven't reduced the £5 monthly fee either.
The trouble is the banks now have to keep their investment arms separate. So rather than funds going there, they have a surplus, which means they will pay less for deposits.
I agree with Will Self. I remember him on Question Time just after the banking crisis in 2008/09 & he said that instead of banks paying interest on savings that "savers" should have to pay banks to look after their money. This way people wouldn't be so keen on having thousands of ££££ in the bank just sitting there when instead it could be being used more productively for the economy.
I have many clients who think nothing of having £50k, £100k or more sitting on deposit "just in case". As a financial advisor I of course recommend that you have a "safety net" in case of emergencies. There are no hard & fast rules on how much this should be but a rule of thumb of between 3-6 months of usual monthly expenditure is about the norm. I usually advise £10k -£20k or so. Obviously depends on the individual & their circumstances but when a retired couple on a good pension (many of my clients have pension income of £40k pa +) have more than this then you wonder why they are happy receiving less than 1%pa "just in case".
I think the main problem is that a lot of people don't understand investments. They have heard about stockmarket "crashes" & pension scandals and think the best & "safest" place for their money is in the bank, often splitting it between 2 or 3 different banks as they dont want to exceed the £85k protection limit. The fact that (in the UK) the Government haven't let a financial institution fail for many many years escapes them.
Will be interesting to see what the B of E do in a couple of weeks time. More than half of The City institutions now think that interest rates will be cut next month.
Although I love Will Self, the thinking man's Jeremy Clarkson, taking money out of banks and putting it in equities isn't exactly stimulating the economy, as it's basically a Zero-sum game.
I suppose that's where something like P2P would come in if it was safer/better regulated
Actually, @Huskaris, the equity market isn't a zero sum game at all, quite the opposite. It took me a while to get my head around this in my early years working with the markets. Once a company has raised money by selling its shares, how does trading those shares afterwards make any difference? The answer lies in the relationship between debt and equity in the 'capital markets' and how markets allocate capital.
Simplistically, a company's market value in the secondary market (the stock exchange) directly affects its ability to raise capital - either via equity or debt - and its cost. All sorts of people try to work out what a company is 'worth' by looking at all sorts of aspects of the company, its future prospects, the markets it trades in, its price behaviour and global trends. They then buy and sell those shares, depending on whether they think the company will give them a good return for a reasonable risk, for a given time scale.
A good example right now is Intu. Do shareholders put more money into the company to get it past a short term problem, and avoid having the debt holders take it over and losing what they have left? Or will it be throwing bad money after good and end up with the debt holders in the end anyway? Debt holders have to worry if the company will go bust and not get their money back at all (the 'credit risk'). This all affects the price of the shares and the price of any more debt the company might take on.
The stock market, at least over the long term, selects the best companies that use investors' capital most effectively (Benjamin Graham: 'in the short term it's a voting machine, in the long term, it's a weighing machine'). That drives investors to allocate their capital to the best companies, which drives overall productivity across industries, which grows wealth.
That's not zero sum at all, that's wealth being created. It's only in relatively recent historical times people have cottoned on to this (just over 300 years) and that's what's driven the massive improvement in wealth across the globe in that time. Prior to that economics was 'mercantilist' and people believed that the economy was zero sum. Some people still do, despite 300 years of data proving otherwise, but there you go.
As for P2P, you are effectively playing in the debt markets but at considerably disadvantage to the main lenders who have a much better understanding of the credit risk of the company or individual you are lending to. That's slightly offset by your money usually being split out across multiple debtors but, as has been seen, is still very risky. What you want to ask yourself is, why can't these companies or individuals raise money from the usual sources? Is it the debt markets being inefficient or do they know something you don't and won't lend at that rate, because it doesn't truly reflect the risk. No right answer here but my observation is that rates being offered to P2P lenders have been very low for some time and I doubt they are reflecting the credit risk - you're in the same game the banks fucked up in 2008 and doing the same thing - underpricing credit risk.
Guys and gals, don't forget that I am the mug who failed to get out of Woodford in time. :-( Well I got rid of some in time but not all, because I was still influenced by the Hargreaves Lansdowne cheer - leading. I'm just a punter.
That said, I pay great attention to whatever @Rob7Lee says too. I know him personally, his professional background gives him a more suitable skill-set for this stuff than I have. And @golfaddick too, even though I am often tempted to have a dig. He has access to tools and info the rest of us don't. And I am also getting great insights from @WishIdStayedinthePub , although a lot of what he writes is above my pay grade - which is good!
It's a great thread, and I appreciate the generosity of all who participate, but my advice is to make sure you own your own investment decisions, and learn your lessons when they come unstuck, e.g. Woodford.
Worth an overnight punt on Fevertree seeing as they feel near 30pc today? Surely a potential takeover looking at the size of them and industry.
I did buy in today. They were on my watch list, roughly hit a couple of technical targets and so my discipline says I should buy. Last at this price in March 2017.
Quite risky though. Priced as a growth stock and disappointed on growth, which can massively change the valuation basis. I took the bet that they will replicate their UK success abroad and US growth looks Ok. But many British companies don't make that leap. Well run company with decent returns a more sensible valuation now. Fingers crossed!
Guys and gals, don't forget that I am the mug who failed to get out of Woodford in time. :-( Well I got rid of some in time but not all, because I was still influenced by the Hargreaves Lansdowne cheer - leading. I'm just a punter.
That said, I pay great attention to whatever @Rob7Lee says too. I know him personally, his professional background gives him a more suitable skill-set for this stuff than I have. And @golfaddick too, even though I am often tempted to have a dig. He has access to tools and info the rest of us don't. And I am also getting great insights from @WishIdStayedinthePub , although a lot of what he writes is above my pay grade - which is good!
It's a great thread, and I appreciate the generosity of all who participate, but my advice is to make sure you own your own investment decisions, and learn your lessons when they come unstuck, e.g. Woodford.
Another amateur punter here too - with enough knowledge to be dangerous!
I've quite a bit in LT and will be holding, over time it's been a very good performer.
I base most of my financial decisions on what you and @PragueAddick do so I will hold mine too!
Me too....!
Oh gawd........ pressure
Well if it's any help i've moved some out of premium bonds........ although my wife is refusing to cash any in as she likes the anticipation every month
Bought again some Go Ahead shares, quite fancy a dib again at Tullow oil, but risky. Greggs are flying!
I've quite a bit in LT and will be holding, over time it's been a very good performer.
I base most of my financial decisions on what you and @PragueAddick do so I will hold mine too!
Me too....!
Oh gawd........ pressure
Well if it's any help i've moved some out of premium bonds........ although my wife is refusing to cash any in as she likes the anticipation every month
Bought again some Go Ahead shares, quite fancy a dib again at Tullow oil, but risky. Greggs are flying!
I agree with your wife . Love the possibility of a big win each month.
I only have an account setup with Hargreaves who serve me well for funds with low fees etc. I am not a HL cheerleader but built my Isa's with them over the years.
I nearly invested info FTree until I saw a small punt with them would need to male £24 to cover the commission! Been a while since I've bought individual shares so opted not to.
Comments
So I am just holding, but ready to buy on the dips. I did though trim some other funds which hold the same FMCG giants as Lindsell Train, because they didnt have anything like the long term performance. LE invest in interesting things. Not sure if it is still true but you may find you are effectively a shareholder of both Celtic and Juventus!
That being the case there are probably too many improndrables to give you a definitive answer. If it was me I'd take the transfer value as you have more flexibility than with a final salary pension. This is what I usually tell my clients. It's not will the £445k give more than £14k pa (which I'm sure it will in 14 years time - even at a modest 3.5% "drawdown" figure it could give you £16k pa) but would you prefer flexibility over a guarantee.
Currently your pension gives you a known annual pension (maybe a lump sum too). But the fund is lost on your death (maybe 50% to your spouse if you're married). Whereas in your plan you (and any dependants) have access to the full amount. You could take it earlier than 65 without any penalties. You can take out more now & less later (when you start receiving the State Pension). You can alter the amount of income over time, up & down stopping & starting.
As I said......irs more to do with flexibility than replicating what the final salary scheme will give you.
FWIW.......and it's a long piece of string......I would say you could turn £445k into £800k-£1m in 14 years time.
So rather than funds going there, they have a surplus, which means they will pay less for deposits.
I have many clients who think nothing of having £50k, £100k or more sitting on deposit "just in case". As a financial advisor I of course recommend that you have a "safety net" in case of emergencies. There are no hard & fast rules on how much this should be but a rule of thumb of between 3-6 months of usual monthly expenditure is about the norm. I usually advise £10k -£20k or so. Obviously depends on the individual & their circumstances but when a retired couple on a good pension (many of my clients have pension income of £40k pa +) have more than this then you wonder why they are happy receiving less than 1%pa "just in case".
I think the main problem is that a lot of people don't understand investments. They have heard about stockmarket "crashes" & pension scandals and think the best & "safest" place for their money is in the bank, often splitting it between 2 or 3 different banks as they dont want to exceed the £85k protection limit. The fact that (in the UK) the Government haven't let a financial institution fail for many many years escapes them.
Will be interesting to see what the B of E do in a couple of weeks time. More than half of The City institutions now think that interest rates will be cut next month.
I suppose that's where something like P2P would come in if it was safer/better regulated
Simplistically, a company's market value in the secondary market (the stock exchange) directly affects its ability to raise capital - either via equity or debt - and its cost. All sorts of people try to work out what a company is 'worth' by looking at all sorts of aspects of the company, its future prospects, the markets it trades in, its price behaviour and global trends. They then buy and sell those shares, depending on whether they think the company will give them a good return for a reasonable risk, for a given time scale.
A good example right now is Intu. Do shareholders put more money into the company to get it past a short term problem, and avoid having the debt holders take it over and losing what they have left? Or will it be throwing bad money after good and end up with the debt holders in the end anyway? Debt holders have to worry if the company will go bust and not get their money back at all (the 'credit risk'). This all affects the price of the shares and the price of any more debt the company might take on.
The stock market, at least over the long term, selects the best companies that use investors' capital most effectively (Benjamin Graham: 'in the short term it's a voting machine, in the long term, it's a weighing machine'). That drives investors to allocate their capital to the best companies, which drives overall productivity across industries, which grows wealth.
That's not zero sum at all, that's wealth being created. It's only in relatively recent historical times people have cottoned on to this (just over 300 years) and that's what's driven the massive improvement in wealth across the globe in that time. Prior to that economics was 'mercantilist' and people believed that the economy was zero sum. Some people still do, despite 300 years of data proving otherwise, but there you go.
As for P2P, you are effectively playing in the debt markets but at considerably disadvantage to the main lenders who have a much better understanding of the credit risk of the company or individual you are lending to. That's slightly offset by your money usually being split out across multiple debtors but, as has been seen, is still very risky. What you want to ask yourself is, why can't these companies or individuals raise money from the usual sources? Is it the debt markets being inefficient or do they know something you don't and won't lend at that rate, because it doesn't truly reflect the risk. No right answer here but my observation is that rates being offered to P2P lenders have been very low for some time and I doubt they are reflecting the credit risk - you're in the same game the banks fucked up in 2008 and doing the same thing - underpricing credit risk.
That said, I pay great attention to whatever @Rob7Lee says too. I know him personally, his professional background gives him a more suitable skill-set for this stuff than I have. And @golfaddick too, even though I am often tempted to have a dig. He has access to tools and info the rest of us don't. And I am also getting great insights from @WishIdStayedinthePub , although a lot of what he writes is above my pay grade - which is good!
It's a great thread, and I appreciate the generosity of all who participate, but my advice is to make sure you own your own investment decisions, and learn your lessons when they come unstuck, e.g. Woodford.
Quite risky though. Priced as a growth stock and disappointed on growth, which can massively change the valuation basis. I took the bet that they will replicate their UK success abroad and US growth looks Ok. But many British companies don't make that leap. Well run company with decent returns a more sensible valuation now. Fingers crossed!
Well if it's any help i've moved some out of premium bonds........ although my wife is refusing to cash any in as she likes the anticipation every month
Bought again some Go Ahead shares, quite fancy a dib again at Tullow oil, but risky. Greggs are flying!
I only have an account setup with Hargreaves who serve me well for funds with low fees etc. I am not a HL cheerleader but built my Isa's with them over the years.
I nearly invested info FTree until I saw a small punt with them would need to male £24 to cover the commission! Been a while since I've bought individual shares so opted not to.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51279267