Speaking of SIPPs, I've been meaning to ask for a while how drawdown works. I have, of course, read H-L's blurb on it, and guess what, I'm not clear as a result about a fairly fundamental question
I understand that I can take out max 25%. I don't understand whether I can take it all out in one chunk or not. If not, how much can I take out at any one time? Presumably you have to make a decision on a certain day that you are opting for drawdown, as otherwise how can it be defined, the size of the withdrawal amount that constitutes 25%?
It's very technical & probably not something easily explained on here......but I'll give it a go.
Let's assume you have £400k in your Pension plan. Taking any money out is known as a "Crystallization Benefit Event" and there are a number of different ones depending on how you want to structure payments, but I'll go through the 2 main ones here.
You do not have to take out all the 25% tax-free element in one go & can withdraw as much or as little of the 25% as you like until the full 25% has been used.
Example 1.
You want to take all 25% out on day 1 when you turn 60. Before you take any money the funds are known as being "uncrystalised". Once you take the 25% (in this case £100k) the remaining £300k is "crystallised" and therefore no further tax free amounts can be taken. Your £300k can stay invested (which it should) and will fluctuate as before. So say 5 years later at age 65 you want to start drawing out an income, then you start taking taxable amounts from the "crystallised" pot, hoping that it might now be worth in excess of the £300k.
Example 2
You only want to take out £50k from your £400k pension pot at age 60. (This is where it become technical & tricky to explain).
£200k of your pension pot is "crystallised", so that the maximum tax free amount you can take is (25%x£200k) £50k. The remaining £200k is left "uncrystalised" so that you can take a further 25% from it at a later date.
5 years later you want to take your pension (as in example 1). You now have 2 pension pots, 1 crystallised & 1 not. Assuming both have grown by 5% pa (therefore by 25% over the 5 years) you could have:
1) a crystallised pot of £187,500 2) an uncrystalised pot of £250,000
Pot 1 you can only take taxable benefits from but pot 2 you can still take a 25% tax free amount......in this case £62,500 and then the rest is taxable.
There are many other examples but I wont go into them now. Suffice to say that anyone who has a personal pension nowdays should be making sure that it can facilitate being a "Flexi-acces Drawdown" plan. Many can't & thus why advisers 😉 are always trying to get clients in old pp's or Stakeholder plans to switch into a new plan.
Another benefit (apart from the flexibility of staged payments) is that upon death (before age 75) then the remaining fund can be inherited TAX FREE by a spouse or dependants. After age 75 tax will be charged at the beneficiaries own tax rate. You can see why an annuity might not be quite the right product anymore when retiring.
One final thing. We talk about the 25% being "tax-free" and it has been known as this since forever. But HMRC changed the wording a few years back and now any initial lump sum taken from a pension is called a "Pension Commencement Lump Sum" or PCLS for short. I wonder why they dropped the words "tax-free.....? You have been warned.
HTH.
A good summary, as to the last point, the day I get to 57 i'm taking 25% although as thats 9 years away i'm not convinced it'll be tax free by then anyway, but here's hoping.
It still surprises me that many people still take the annuity route.
why 57, thought you can take it from 55?
The minimum age at which you can take a pension rises to 57 in 2028. Won't worry either of us though!
Speaking of SIPPs, I've been meaning to ask for a while how drawdown works. I have, of course, read H-L's blurb on it, and guess what, I'm not clear as a result about a fairly fundamental question
I understand that I can take out max 25%. I don't understand whether I can take it all out in one chunk or not. If not, how much can I take out at any one time? Presumably you have to make a decision on a certain day that you are opting for drawdown, as otherwise how can it be defined, the size of the withdrawal amount that constitutes 25%?
It's very technical & probably not something easily explained on here......but I'll give it a go.
Let's assume you have £400k in your Pension plan. Taking any money out is known as a "Crystallization Benefit Event" and there are a number of different ones depending on how you want to structure payments, but I'll go through the 2 main ones here.
You do not have to take out all the 25% tax-free element in one go & can withdraw as much or as little of the 25% as you like until the full 25% has been used.
Example 1.
You want to take all 25% out on day 1 when you turn 60. Before you take any money the funds are known as being "uncrystalised". Once you take the 25% (in this case £100k) the remaining £300k is "crystallised" and therefore no further tax free amounts can be taken. Your £300k can stay invested (which it should) and will fluctuate as before. So say 5 years later at age 65 you want to start drawing out an income, then you start taking taxable amounts from the "crystallised" pot, hoping that it might now be worth in excess of the £300k.
Example 2
You only want to take out £50k from your £400k pension pot at age 60. (This is where it become technical & tricky to explain).
£200k of your pension pot is "crystallised", so that the maximum tax free amount you can take is (25%x£200k) £50k. The remaining £200k is left "uncrystalised" so that you can take a further 25% from it at a later date.
5 years later you want to take your pension (as in example 1). You now have 2 pension pots, 1 crystallised & 1 not. Assuming both have grown by 5% pa (therefore by 25% over the 5 years) you could have:
1) a crystallised pot of £187,500 2) an uncrystalised pot of £250,000
Pot 1 you can only take taxable benefits from but pot 2 you can still take a 25% tax free amount......in this case £62,500 and then the rest is taxable.
There are many other examples but I wont go into them now. Suffice to say that anyone who has a personal pension nowdays should be making sure that it can facilitate being a "Flexi-acces Drawdown" plan. Many can't & thus why advisers 😉 are always trying to get clients in old pp's or Stakeholder plans to switch into a new plan.
Another benefit (apart from the flexibility of staged payments) is that upon death (before age 75) then the remaining fund can be inherited TAX FREE by a spouse or dependants. After age 75 tax will be charged at the beneficiaries own tax rate. You can see why an annuity might not be quite the right product anymore when retiring.
One final thing. We talk about the 25% being "tax-free" and it has been known as this since forever. But HMRC changed the wording a few years back and now any initial lump sum taken from a pension is called a "Pension Commencement Lump Sum" or PCLS for short. I wonder why they dropped the words "tax-free.....? You have been warned.
HTH.
A good summary, as to the last point, the day I get to 57 i'm taking 25% although as thats 9 years away i'm not convinced it'll be tax free by then anyway, but here's hoping.
It still surprises me that many people still take the annuity route.
why 57, thought you can take it from 55?
The minimum age at which you can take a pension rises to 57 in 2028. Won't worry either of us though!
10 years from the State Retirement age......so could be age 60 before too long.
question for an IFA if there is one on here .... and these are hypothetical figures.
If someone is about to reach 55 and has £300k in their pension pot they are entitled to take £75k (25%) as a tax free lump sum. However, they only want to take £25k leaving the rest in to hopefully increase in value, so they do this reducing their pot to £275k. In five years time their pot is now worth £400k and they want to take the rest of their 25% tax free sum. Is it then calculated as 25% of £400k so £100k less the £25k previously taken so meaning they can take a further £75k?
Might be worth mentioning that once you've taken anything out of your pension, you can only pay 4K per year into any pension from then on. I think that's right?
You can potentially lose a lot of future tax relief by dipping in for a quick 25K.
Again, wrong.
The £4k limit only applies once you start taking payments AFTER you have taken the tax-free element.
Sorry!
The whole thing seems ridiculously complicated - almost designed to discourage reluctant young people from saving!
Should everybody who is still working take that tax free element at 55 and recycle it back into another pension so they can claim even more tax relief?
I'm too old to worry about this anyway!
I definitely agree with that. But it's at a piece with the entire tax regime, and designed to enrich the financial services industry as usual.
For example, I have a SIPP which is now on the Hargreaves Lansdowne platform. In my naivety I supposed that I can just directly withdraw amounts up to the limit directly. Oh no. For a reason which is not explained, I have to apply to make it a drawdown pension. H-L claims that there are no extra charges. I am not sure I believe that, but either way, why do we have this bureaucracy?
Speaking of SIPPs, I've been meaning to ask for a while how drawdown works. I have, of course, read H-L's blurb on it, and guess what, I'm not clear as a result about a fairly fundamental question
I understand that I can take out max 25%. I don't understand whether I can take it all out in one chunk or not. If not, how much can I take out at any one time? Presumably you have to make a decision on a certain day that you are opting for drawdown, as otherwise how can it be defined, the size of the withdrawal amount that constitutes 25%?
It's very technical & probably not something easily explained on here......but I'll give it a go.
Let's assume you have £400k in your Pension plan. Taking any money out is known as a "Crystallization Benefit Event" and there are a number of different ones depending on how you want to structure payments, but I'll go through the 2 main ones here.
You do not have to take out all the 25% tax-free element in one go & can withdraw as much or as little of the 25% as you like until the full 25% has been used.
Example 1.
You want to take all 25% out on day 1 when you turn 60. Before you take any money the funds are known as being "uncrystalised". Once you take the 25% (in this case £100k) the remaining £300k is "crystallised" and therefore no further tax free amounts can be taken. Your £300k can stay invested (which it should) and will fluctuate as before. So say 5 years later at age 65 you want to start drawing out an income, then you start taking taxable amounts from the "crystallised" pot, hoping that it might now be worth in excess of the £300k.
Example 2
You only want to take out £50k from your £400k pension pot at age 60. (This is where it become technical & tricky to explain).
£200k of your pension pot is "crystallised", so that the maximum tax free amount you can take is (25%x£200k) £50k. The remaining £200k is left "uncrystalised" so that you can take a further 25% from it at a later date.
5 years later you want to take your pension (as in example 1). You now have 2 pension pots, 1 crystallised & 1 not. Assuming both have grown by 5% pa (therefore by 25% over the 5 years) you could have:
1) a crystallised pot of £187,500 2) an uncrystalised pot of £250,000
Pot 1 you can only take taxable benefits from but pot 2 you can still take a 25% tax free amount......in this case £62,500 and then the rest is taxable.
There are many other examples but I wont go into them now. Suffice to say that anyone who has a personal pension nowdays should be making sure that it can facilitate being a "Flexi-acces Drawdown" plan. Many can't & thus why advisers 😉 are always trying to get clients in old pp's or Stakeholder plans to switch into a new plan.
Another benefit (apart from the flexibility of staged payments) is that upon death (before age 75) then the remaining fund can be inherited TAX FREE by a spouse or dependants. After age 75 tax will be charged at the beneficiaries own tax rate. You can see why an annuity might not be quite the right product anymore when retiring.
One final thing. We talk about the 25% being "tax-free" and it has been known as this since forever. But HMRC changed the wording a few years back and now any initial lump sum taken from a pension is called a "Pension Commencement Lump Sum" or PCLS for short. I wonder why they dropped the words "tax-free.....? You have been warned.
HTH.
A good summary, as to the last point, the day I get to 57 i'm taking 25% although as thats 9 years away i'm not convinced it'll be tax free by then anyway, but here's hoping.
It still surprises me that many people still take the annuity route.
why 57, thought you can take it from 55?
The minimum age at which you can take a pension rises to 57 in 2028. Won't worry either of us though!
question for an IFA if there is one on here .... and these are hypothetical figures.
If someone is about to reach 55 and has £300k in their pension pot they are entitled to take £75k (25%) as a tax free lump sum. However, they only want to take £25k leaving the rest in to hopefully increase in value, so they do this reducing their pot to £275k. In five years time their pot is now worth £400k and they want to take the rest of their 25% tax free sum. Is it then calculated as 25% of £400k so £100k less the £25k previously taken so meaning they can take a further £75k?
Might be worth mentioning that once you've taken anything out of your pension, you can only pay 4K per year into any pension from then on. I think that's right?
You can potentially lose a lot of future tax relief by dipping in for a quick 25K.
Again, wrong.
The £4k limit only applies once you start taking payments AFTER you have taken the tax-free element.
Sorry!
The whole thing seems ridiculously complicated - almost designed to discourage reluctant young people from saving!
Should everybody who is still working take that tax free element at 55 and recycle it back into another pension so they can claim even more tax relief?
I'm too old to worry about this anyway!
I definitely agree with that. But it's at a piece with the entire tax regime, and designed to enrich the financial services industry as usual.
For example, I have a SIPP which is now on the Hargreaves Lansdowne platform. In my naivety I supposed that I can just directly withdraw amounts up to the limit directly. Oh no. For a reason which is not explained, I have to apply to make it a drawdown pension. H-L claims that there are no extra charges. I am not sure I believe that, but either way, why do we have this bureaucracy?
I expect it's because, as stated the other day, that there is a definitive distinction between a Personal pension (be it a PP, a Stakeholder or a Sipp) and a Drawdown plan. A drawdown pension (or to give it its proper name, a FLEXI-access drawdown scheme) has different tax treatments than a normal pension and has to distinguish between crystalised & uncrystalised funds.
Speaking of SIPPs, I've been meaning to ask for a while how drawdown works. I have, of course, read H-L's blurb on it, and guess what, I'm not clear as a result about a fairly fundamental question
I understand that I can take out max 25%. I don't understand whether I can take it all out in one chunk or not. If not, how much can I take out at any one time? Presumably you have to make a decision on a certain day that you are opting for drawdown, as otherwise how can it be defined, the size of the withdrawal amount that constitutes 25%?
It's very technical & probably not something easily explained on here......but I'll give it a go.
Let's assume you have £400k in your Pension plan. Taking any money out is known as a "Crystallization Benefit Event" and there are a number of different ones depending on how you want to structure payments, but I'll go through the 2 main ones here.
You do not have to take out all the 25% tax-free element in one go & can withdraw as much or as little of the 25% as you like until the full 25% has been used.
Example 1.
You want to take all 25% out on day 1 when you turn 60. Before you take any money the funds are known as being "uncrystalised". Once you take the 25% (in this case £100k) the remaining £300k is "crystallised" and therefore no further tax free amounts can be taken. Your £300k can stay invested (which it should) and will fluctuate as before. So say 5 years later at age 65 you want to start drawing out an income, then you start taking taxable amounts from the "crystallised" pot, hoping that it might now be worth in excess of the £300k.
Example 2
You only want to take out £50k from your £400k pension pot at age 60. (This is where it become technical & tricky to explain).
£200k of your pension pot is "crystallised", so that the maximum tax free amount you can take is (25%x£200k) £50k. The remaining £200k is left "uncrystalised" so that you can take a further 25% from it at a later date.
5 years later you want to take your pension (as in example 1). You now have 2 pension pots, 1 crystallised & 1 not. Assuming both have grown by 5% pa (therefore by 25% over the 5 years) you could have:
1) a crystallised pot of £187,500 2) an uncrystalised pot of £250,000
Pot 1 you can only take taxable benefits from but pot 2 you can still take a 25% tax free amount......in this case £62,500 and then the rest is taxable.
There are many other examples but I wont go into them now. Suffice to say that anyone who has a personal pension nowdays should be making sure that it can facilitate being a "Flexi-acces Drawdown" plan. Many can't & thus why advisers 😉 are always trying to get clients in old pp's or Stakeholder plans to switch into a new plan.
Another benefit (apart from the flexibility of staged payments) is that upon death (before age 75) then the remaining fund can be inherited TAX FREE by a spouse or dependants. After age 75 tax will be charged at the beneficiaries own tax rate. You can see why an annuity might not be quite the right product anymore when retiring.
One final thing. We talk about the 25% being "tax-free" and it has been known as this since forever. But HMRC changed the wording a few years back and now any initial lump sum taken from a pension is called a "Pension Commencement Lump Sum" or PCLS for short. I wonder why they dropped the words "tax-free.....? You have been warned.
HTH.
A good summary, as to the last point, the day I get to 57 i'm taking 25% although as thats 9 years away i'm not convinced it'll be tax free by then anyway, but here's hoping.
It still surprises me that many people still take the annuity route.
why 57, thought you can take it from 55?
Depends when you were born. Rises to 57 by 2028 I believe, two tear phase in, I was born in late 72 so will be 56 in late 2028. That said I’m not sure it’s been put through legislation yet.
question for an IFA if there is one on here .... and these are hypothetical figures.
If someone is about to reach 55 and has £300k in their pension pot they are entitled to take £75k (25%) as a tax free lump sum. However, they only want to take £25k leaving the rest in to hopefully increase in value, so they do this reducing their pot to £275k. In five years time their pot is now worth £400k and they want to take the rest of their 25% tax free sum. Is it then calculated as 25% of £400k so £100k less the £25k previously taken so meaning they can take a further £75k?
Might be worth mentioning that once you've taken anything out of your pension, you can only pay 4K per year into any pension from then on. I think that's right?
You can potentially lose a lot of future tax relief by dipping in for a quick 25K.
Again, wrong.
The £4k limit only applies once you start taking payments AFTER you have taken the tax-free element.
Sorry!
The whole thing seems ridiculously complicated - almost designed to discourage reluctant young people from saving!
Should everybody who is still working take that tax free element at 55 and recycle it back into another pension so they can claim even more tax relief?
I'm too old to worry about this anyway!
I definitely agree with that. But it's at a piece with the entire tax regime, and designed to enrich the financial services industry as usual.
For example, I have a SIPP which is now on the Hargreaves Lansdowne platform. In my naivety I supposed that I can just directly withdraw amounts up to the limit directly. Oh no. For a reason which is not explained, I have to apply to make it a drawdown pension. H-L claims that there are no extra charges. I am not sure I believe that, but either way, why do we have this bureaucracy?
I expect it's because, as stated the other day, that there is a definitive distinction between a Personal pension (be it a PP, a Stakeholder or a Sipp) and a Drawdown plan. A drawdown pension (or to give it its proper name, a FLEXI-access drawdown scheme) has different tax treatments than a normal pension and has to distinguish between crystalised & uncrystalised funds.
I mean, really, what a load of old bollocks. I don't refer to you of course, but to the reasoning you are revealing. Show that to an average person and ask them if they understand a word. If the UK wants people to take responsibility for their own pensions,( a sentiment I agree with, within reason) then bloody well make it simple. But then that's just part of the complete massive mess which is the UK tax law.
question for an IFA if there is one on here .... and these are hypothetical figures.
If someone is about to reach 55 and has £300k in their pension pot they are entitled to take £75k (25%) as a tax free lump sum. However, they only want to take £25k leaving the rest in to hopefully increase in value, so they do this reducing their pot to £275k. In five years time their pot is now worth £400k and they want to take the rest of their 25% tax free sum. Is it then calculated as 25% of £400k so £100k less the £25k previously taken so meaning they can take a further £75k?
Might be worth mentioning that once you've taken anything out of your pension, you can only pay 4K per year into any pension from then on. I think that's right?
You can potentially lose a lot of future tax relief by dipping in for a quick 25K.
Again, wrong.
The £4k limit only applies once you start taking payments AFTER you have taken the tax-free element.
Sorry!
The whole thing seems ridiculously complicated - almost designed to discourage reluctant young people from saving!
Should everybody who is still working take that tax free element at 55 and recycle it back into another pension so they can claim even more tax relief?
I'm too old to worry about this anyway!
I definitely agree with that. But it's at a piece with the entire tax regime, and designed to enrich the financial services industry as usual.
For example, I have a SIPP which is now on the Hargreaves Lansdowne platform. In my naivety I supposed that I can just directly withdraw amounts up to the limit directly. Oh no. For a reason which is not explained, I have to apply to make it a drawdown pension. H-L claims that there are no extra charges. I am not sure I believe that, but either way, why do we have this bureaucracy?
I expect it's because, as stated the other day, that there is a definitive distinction between a Personal pension (be it a PP, a Stakeholder or a Sipp) and a Drawdown plan. A drawdown pension (or to give it its proper name, a FLEXI-access drawdown scheme) has different tax treatments than a normal pension and has to distinguish between crystalised & uncrystalised funds.
I mean, really, what a load of old bollocks. I don't refer to you of course, but to the reasoning you are revealing. Show that to an average person and ask them if they understand a word. If the UK wants people to take responsibility for their own pensions,( a sentiment I agree with, within reason) then bloody well make it simple. But then that's just part of the complete massive mess which is the UK tax law.
I'd certainly agree the UK tax system/law is massively over complicated. Mainly because everyone has been to scared to make wholesale changes. It's just adding a new rule here, a new rule there. I'm getting on a bit having been working now for 30+ years, but when I think back to the numerous pension changes i've probably forgotten half of them, MIRAS, Personal allowance, Do you/don't you get child benefit, NI Changes, Married Mans allowance, Stamp duty changes and thats probably the tip of the iceberg.
It's so over complicated.
Starting to question if it was wise to start paying into my pension again..........
question for an IFA if there is one on here .... and these are hypothetical figures.
If someone is about to reach 55 and has £300k in their pension pot they are entitled to take £75k (25%) as a tax free lump sum. However, they only want to take £25k leaving the rest in to hopefully increase in value, so they do this reducing their pot to £275k. In five years time their pot is now worth £400k and they want to take the rest of their 25% tax free sum. Is it then calculated as 25% of £400k so £100k less the £25k previously taken so meaning they can take a further £75k?
Might be worth mentioning that once you've taken anything out of your pension, you can only pay 4K per year into any pension from then on. I think that's right?
You can potentially lose a lot of future tax relief by dipping in for a quick 25K.
Again, wrong.
The £4k limit only applies once you start taking payments AFTER you have taken the tax-free element.
Sorry!
The whole thing seems ridiculously complicated - almost designed to discourage reluctant young people from saving!
Should everybody who is still working take that tax free element at 55 and recycle it back into another pension so they can claim even more tax relief?
I'm too old to worry about this anyway!
I definitely agree with that. But it's at a piece with the entire tax regime, and designed to enrich the financial services industry as usual.
For example, I have a SIPP which is now on the Hargreaves Lansdowne platform. In my naivety I supposed that I can just directly withdraw amounts up to the limit directly. Oh no. For a reason which is not explained, I have to apply to make it a drawdown pension. H-L claims that there are no extra charges. I am not sure I believe that, but either way, why do we have this bureaucracy?
I expect it's because, as stated the other day, that there is a definitive distinction between a Personal pension (be it a PP, a Stakeholder or a Sipp) and a Drawdown plan. A drawdown pension (or to give it its proper name, a FLEXI-access drawdown scheme) has different tax treatments than a normal pension and has to distinguish between crystalised & uncrystalised funds.
I mean, really, what a load of old bollocks. I don't refer to you of course, but to the reasoning you are revealing. Show that to an average person and ask them if they understand a word. If the UK wants people to take responsibility for their own pensions,( a sentiment I agree with, within reason) then bloody well make it simple. But then that's just part of the complete massive mess which is the UK tax law.
I'd certainly agree the UK tax system/law is massively over complicated. Mainly because everyone has been to scared to make wholesale changes. It's just adding a new rule here, a new rule there. I'm getting on a bit having been working now for 30+ years, but when I think back to the numerous pension changes i've probably forgotten half of them, MIRAS, Personal allowance, Do you/don't you get child benefit, NI Changes, Married Mans allowance, Stamp duty changes and thats probably the tip of the iceberg.
It's so over complicated.
Starting to question if it was wise to start paying into my pension again..........
About the only thing I give Gordon Brown credit for is pension simplification, which came into force in 2006. No more AVC's, FSAVC's, Personal Pensions, Retirement Annuity Contracts. Just 1 simple Personal Pension (until they added I Stakeholders). And that you could transfer the whole lot into 1.......and still get a 25% tax free payment upon retirement (which you couldn't get from your AVc's or FSAVC's). I transferred 4 old schemes into 1.
Then I take away all my praise for him as at the same time the Annual Allowance & the Lifetime Allowance were introduced. The Annual allowance started off at £265k.......its now £40k. The Lifetime Allowance started off at £1.5m and went up steadily to £1.8m. In 2010 when the Coalition came in it was supposed to go up to £2m. Instead it has steadily decreased & currently stands at just under £1.1m. This is where the silent tax take has been coming from. I understand all the righteous indignation over wellfare cuts & the pain austerity has caused to millions of working class folk, but many of them have no idea how much tax is being taken at the upper end of the scale. And I'm not talking about millionaires, footballers or businessman. Just your ordinary GP, Hospital Consultant & Head Teacher.
Anyway.....mustn't grumble. All these changes have kept me in a job.....😄
Does anybody here invest using their Lifetime ISA allowance?
Is it all smooth sailing? I just my Stocks and Share ISA but won't be topping up to the max, so think this may be a more suitable vehicle for a safe fund.
Does anybody here invest using their Lifetime ISA allowance?
Is it all smooth sailing? I just my Stocks and Share ISA but won't be topping up to the max, so think this may be a more suitable vehicle for a safe fund.
My daughter has a lifetime ISA, £4k a year, mainly good for buying your first property as it can only be used for that or pension, you can take the money out but would lose 25%. I'm too old.......
On a Pension note, my Dad continued to invest his pension since retirement and it has grown well with it's investment in equity/managed funds. He's filling in the forms to now sell the funds and move the pension (from Zurich to Hargreaves), but this process can take upto 6 weeks I believe.
What with the US election and current state of markets, is it advisable that he continues to get this going this week, or if he doesn't need to income before end of year, wait and hold off to see how Biden/Trump shake or shape the Global markets?
He was looking to kick-start this process in March, then saw the markets collapse, then saw them perform better than expected. Are clients looking to move forwards with their pension plans being advised something specific in the current climate @golfaddick?
Please can someone 'ITK' (Golfie?) answer the following questions for me:
1. State Pension: despite having made pension contributions for more than 38 years without a break, my state pension forecast is still saying that I need to contribute for another 4 years to gain the maximum pension of (currently) £175.20. I think it said the same thing a year ago. I work for the NHS as a senior manager and pay the usual tax/NI every month so the lack of progress is worrying with just 6 years until my intended retirement age of 60. Could it be because I am contracted out of SERPS within my NHS pension scheme? If so, is there anything I could/should do about this?
2. I have had a 'frozen' NatWest pension since leaving them 17 years ago. I check the pension updates every year and see that the fund is actually reducing or at best staying still every year? Is that right when I am reading on here that others have pension pots growing at great rates. I thought that Bank pensions were highly thought of but mine looks dismal after 19 years of service contributions. Should I consider moving my fund away from NatWest - noting my intention to withdraw maximum cash for retirement in only 6 years' time?
Hope you can help as all of the messages on here indicating huge growth in pensions is leaving me more than a little concerned that my funds are not 'performing' as they might be.
Please can someone 'ITK' (Golfie?) answer the following questions for me:
1. State Pension: despite having made pension contributions for more than 38 years without a break, my state pension forest is still saying that I need to contribute for another 4 years to gain the maximum pension of (currently) £175.20. I think it said the same thing a year ago. I work for the NHS as a senior manager and pay the usual tax/NI every month so the lack of progress is worrying with just 6 years until my intended retirement age of 60. Could it be because I am contracted out of SERPS within my NHS pension scheme? If so, is there anything I could/should do about this?
2. I have had a 'frozen' NatWest pension since leaving them 17 years ago. I check the pension updates every year and see that the fund is actually reducing or at best staying still every year? Is that right when I am reading on here that others have pension pots growing at great rates. I thought that Bank pensions were highly thought of but mine looks dismal after 19 years of service contributions. Should I consider moving my fund away from NatWest - noting my intention to withdraw maximum cash for retirement in 6 years' time?
Hope you can help as all of the messages on here indicating huge growth in pensions is leaving me more than a little concerned that my funds are not 'performing' as they might be.
Cheers
On the 2nd point, is it a final salary scheme or money purchase?
Please can someone 'ITK' (Golfie?) answer the following questions for me:
1. State Pension: despite having made pension contributions for more than 38 years without a break, my state pension forest is still saying that I need to contribute for another 4 years to gain the maximum pension of (currently) £175.20. I think it said the same thing a year ago. I work for the NHS as a senior manager and pay the usual tax/NI every month so the lack of progress is worrying with just 6 years until my intended retirement age of 60. Could it be because I am contracted out of SERPS within my NHS pension scheme? If so, is there anything I could/should do about this?
2. I have had a 'frozen' NatWest pension since leaving them 17 years ago. I check the pension updates every year and see that the fund is actually reducing or at best staying still every year? Is that right when I am reading on here that others have pension pots growing at great rates. I thought that Bank pensions were highly thought of but mine looks dismal after 19 years of service contributions. Should I consider moving my fund away from NatWest - noting my intention to withdraw maximum cash for retirement in 6 years' time?
Hope you can help as all of the messages on here indicating huge growth in pensions is leaving me more than a little concerned that my funds are not 'performing' as they might be.
Cheers
On the 2nd point, is it a final salary scheme or money purchase?
if at least 17 years old it's likely a final salary scheme I'd have thought
Please can someone 'ITK' (Golfie?) answer the following questions for me:
1. State Pension: despite having made pension contributions for more than 38 years without a break, my state pension forest is still saying that I need to contribute for another 4 years to gain the maximum pension of (currently) £175.20. I think it said the same thing a year ago. I work for the NHS as a senior manager and pay the usual tax/NI every month so the lack of progress is worrying with just 6 years until my intended retirement age of 60. Could it be because I am contracted out of SERPS within my NHS pension scheme? If so, is there anything I could/should do about this?
2. I have had a 'frozen' NatWest pension since leaving them 17 years ago. I check the pension updates every year and see that the fund is actually reducing or at best staying still every year? Is that right when I am reading on here that others have pension pots growing at great rates. I thought that Bank pensions were highly thought of but mine looks dismal after 19 years of service contributions. Should I consider moving my fund away from NatWest - noting my intention to withdraw maximum cash for retirement in 6 years' time?
Hope you can help as all of the messages on here indicating huge growth in pensions is leaving me more than a little concerned that my funds are not 'performing' as they might be.
Cheers
On the 2nd point, is it a final salary scheme or money purchase?
Hi Rob7Lee. I can't see that it actually states what it is in my latest retirement quotation. If it helps, it's the "NatWest Bank Group Pension Fund Schedule". Transfer benefits value is £508K. "Preserved Pensioner". There is a salary history showing my annual salaries during my employment there so maybe that suggests it is not a final salary scheme. Does that help?
……..their pension video says that the fund will keep up with inflation and will not be affected by a drop in value of investments. Does that tell you what type of pension it is?
……..their pension video says that the fund will keep up with inflation and will not be affected by a drop in value of investments. Does that tell you what type of pension it is?
I would assume it's a final salary scheme if they have a record of your salaries whilst you were working there, but would need to see the actual paperwork to be sure. Also, a fund size of £508k would again assume a FS scheme as I doubt it would have built up that amount just by monthly contributions (and growth), as well as saying that it goes ip with inflation & is not affected by a drop in the value of investments.
Please can someone 'ITK' (Golfie?) answer the following questions for me:
1. State Pension: despite having made pension contributions for more than 38 years without a break, my state pension forecast is still saying that I need to contribute for another 4 years to gain the maximum pension of (currently) £175.20. I think it said the same thing a year ago. I work for the NHS as a senior manager and pay the usual tax/NI every month so the lack of progress is worrying with just 6 years until my intended retirement age of 60. Could it be because I am contracted out of SERPS within my NHS pension scheme? If so, is there anything I could/should do about this?
2. I have had a 'frozen' NatWest pension since leaving them 17 years ago. I check the pension updates every year and see that the fund is actually reducing or at best staying still every year? Is that right when I am reading on here that others have pension pots growing at great rates. I thought that Bank pensions were highly thought of but mine looks dismal after 19 years of service contributions. Should I consider moving my fund away from NatWest - noting my intention to withdraw maximum cash for retirement in only 6 years' time?
Hope you can help as all of the messages on here indicating huge growth in pensions is leaving me more than a little concerned that my funds are not 'performing' as they might be.
Cheers
You can get a year by year breakdown of your NI record on the HMRC site. This might tell you the reason why the are saying you still need another 4 years. I don't think its because you have been in contracted out schemes as that usually takes care of itself by the amount you get at retirement ......which might not be the standard pension figures for the new State Pension. I would imagine yours will be around £30 pw less because of this.
On a Pension note, my Dad continued to invest his pension since retirement and it has grown well with it's investment in equity/managed funds. He's filling in the forms to now sell the funds and move the pension (from Zurich to Hargreaves), but this process can take upto 6 weeks I believe.
What with the US election and current state of markets, is it advisable that he continues to get this going this week, or if he doesn't need to income before end of year, wait and hold off to see how Biden/Trump shake or shape the Global markets?
He was looking to kick-start this process in March, then saw the markets collapse, then saw them perform better than expected. Are clients looking to move forwards with their pension plans being advised something specific in the current climate @golfaddick?
Usually, when you move pension funds from one provider to another, the ceeding scheme (old provider) will sell down the funds once they have ALL the paperwork they need. This might not only be the request from the new provider but also signed declarations from the client as well as other forms saying that you have / have not been given advice & have read any accompanying guidance notes. This is what usually holds up a transfer. Once the funds have been sold down & are in cash then this amount will be sent to the new provider. There is a new system in place (Origo) to transfer the cash speedily so that the client is not out of the market for too long a period of time, but even with the new system in place you would be looking at least 7-10 days.
To be honest there will always be a time lag or a period when you are out of the market. Not much can be done about it & fingers crossed your father doesn't sell or buy at the wrong moment.......but I wouldn't hold it up because of US elections or Brexit deals
Please can someone 'ITK' (Golfie?) answer the following questions for me:
1. State Pension: despite having made pension contributions for more than 38 years without a break, my state pension forecast is still saying that I need to contribute for another 4 years to gain the maximum pension of (currently) £175.20. I think it said the same thing a year ago. I work for the NHS as a senior manager and pay the usual tax/NI every month so the lack of progress is worrying with just 6 years until my intended retirement age of 60. Could it be because I am contracted out of SERPS within my NHS pension scheme? If so, is there anything I could/should do about this?
2. I have had a 'frozen' NatWest pension since leaving them 17 years ago. I check the pension updates every year and see that the fund is actually reducing or at best staying still every year? Is that right when I am reading on here that others have pension pots growing at great rates. I thought that Bank pensions were highly thought of but mine looks dismal after 19 years of service contributions. Should I consider moving my fund away from NatWest - noting my intention to withdraw maximum cash for retirement in only 6 years' time?
Hope you can help as all of the messages on here indicating huge growth in pensions is leaving me more than a little concerned that my funds are not 'performing' as they might be.
Cheers
Not an expert but a mate of mine & my BiL despite same age as me and all of us been working since we were all 16, both of them have not as yet maxed their State Pension although I have, made some enquiries, even spoke to HMRC and it’s because my NI contributions have been a lot higher than theirs. Not sure what you can do to but it might be worth giving HMRC a call, but firstly check your NI record on the HMRC/Gov website.
Please can someone 'ITK' (Golfie?) answer the following questions for me:
1. State Pension: despite having made pension contributions for more than 38 years without a break, my state pension forecast is still saying that I need to contribute for another 4 years to gain the maximum pension of (currently) £175.20. I think it said the same thing a year ago. I work for the NHS as a senior manager and pay the usual tax/NI every month so the lack of progress is worrying with just 6 years until my intended retirement age of 60. Could it be because I am contracted out of SERPS within my NHS pension scheme? If so, is there anything I could/should do about this?
2. I have had a 'frozen' NatWest pension since leaving them 17 years ago. I check the pension updates every year and see that the fund is actually reducing or at best staying still every year? Is that right when I am reading on here that others have pension pots growing at great rates. I thought that Bank pensions were highly thought of but mine looks dismal after 19 years of service contributions. Should I consider moving my fund away from NatWest - noting my intention to withdraw maximum cash for retirement in only 6 years' time?
Hope you can help as all of the messages on here indicating huge growth in pensions is leaving me more than a little concerned that my funds are not 'performing' as they might be.
Cheers
A couple of things to note.
Should you want to transfer the NW scheme away from them & into a Pension of your own you will need specialist advice.. ..and that doesn't come cheap anymore. Starting figure would be around £5k and that is just for the report detailing the benefits of the NW scheme & whether it is better left where it is or not. The new FCA guidelines start with the premise that it is always worse off to transfer unless the report can prove otherwise.
Also, if you do transfer the pension into your own scheme then you will have a fund of £500k to go against the Lifetime Allowance (currently £1,070,000). It would only need an NHS pension of £25k pa (plus the £75k lump sum) to send you over the LTA and thus subject to an excess tax charge.
First thing I would ask is what pension are NW offering at age 60. Then, what are you expecting from the NHS. Once you have these figures you will be in a better position to decide what to do next.
Please can someone 'ITK' (Golfie?) answer the following questions for me:
1. State Pension: despite having made pension contributions for more than 38 years without a break, my state pension forecast is still saying that I need to contribute for another 4 years to gain the maximum pension of (currently) £175.20. I think it said the same thing a year ago. I work for the NHS as a senior manager and pay the usual tax/NI every month so the lack of progress is worrying with just 6 years until my intended retirement age of 60. Could it be because I am contracted out of SERPS within my NHS pension scheme? If so, is there anything I could/should do about this?
2. I have had a 'frozen' NatWest pension since leaving them 17 years ago. I check the pension updates every year and see that the fund is actually reducing or at best staying still every year? Is that right when I am reading on here that others have pension pots growing at great rates. I thought that Bank pensions were highly thought of but mine looks dismal after 19 years of service contributions. Should I consider moving my fund away from NatWest - noting my intention to withdraw maximum cash for retirement in only 6 years' time?
Hope you can help as all of the messages on here indicating huge growth in pensions is leaving me more than a little concerned that my funds are not 'performing' as they might be.
Cheers
You can get a year by year breakdown of your NI record on the HMRC site. This might tell you the reason why the are saying you still need another 4 years. I don't think its because you have been in contracted out schemes as that usually takes care of itself by the amount you get at retirement ......which might not be the standard pension figures for the new State Pension. I would imagine yours will be around £30 pw less because of this.
Hi Golfie. Yes, I did get that year-by-year breakdown and manually added it up to a total of 38+ years. that's what's I don't understand.
Hi Large …… that's what I was thinking but when I tell you that the age 60 retirement illustration translates into an annual pension of just £13,388 OR cash of £79198 + annual pension of just £11,880, it doesn't feel that great for 19 years of service in what (I thought) was seen as a strong Bank pension.
Please can someone 'ITK' (Golfie?) answer the following questions for me:
1. State Pension: despite having made pension contributions for more than 38 years without a break, my state pension forecast is still saying that I need to contribute for another 4 years to gain the maximum pension of (currently) £175.20. I think it said the same thing a year ago. I work for the NHS as a senior manager and pay the usual tax/NI every month so the lack of progress is worrying with just 6 years until my intended retirement age of 60. Could it be because I am contracted out of SERPS within my NHS pension scheme? If so, is there anything I could/should do about this?
2. I have had a 'frozen' NatWest pension since leaving them 17 years ago. I check the pension updates every year and see that the fund is actually reducing or at best staying still every year? Is that right when I am reading on here that others have pension pots growing at great rates. I thought that Bank pensions were highly thought of but mine looks dismal after 19 years of service contributions. Should I consider moving my fund away from NatWest - noting my intention to withdraw maximum cash for retirement in only 6 years' time?
Hope you can help as all of the messages on here indicating huge growth in pensions is leaving me more than a little concerned that my funds are not 'performing' as they might be.
Cheers
Not an expert but a mate of mine & my BiL despite same age as me and all of us been working since we were all 16, both of them have not as yet maxed their State Pension although I have, made some enquiries, even spoke to HMRC and it’s because my NI contributions have been a lot higher than theirs. Not sure what you can do to but it might be worth giving HMRC a call, but firstly check your NI record on the HMRC/Gov website.
Thanks Daarrz………..I might well call them as the year-by-year NI breakdown shows 'full payment' for every year. The pay at NatWest wasn't amazing (I left as a branch manager of £22k in 2003 after 19 years of service!) but probably decent enough to count each and every year I would have thought. Since, joining the NHS 17 years ago, my salary has been at least double the average wage in the UK. Weird huh?
Hi Large …… that's what I was thinking but when I tell you that the age 60 retirement illustration translates into an annual pension of just £13,388 OR cash of £79198 + annual pension of just £11,880, it doesn't feel that great for 19 years of service in what (I thought) was seen as a strong Bank pension.
Its definitely a final salary scheme if they are giving you those figures.
Don't forget those figures are based on your salary when you left and (depending on the scheme) increases to the deferred pension in line with inflation /CPI
Please can someone 'ITK' (Golfie?) answer the following questions for me:
1. State Pension: despite having made pension contributions for more than 38 years without a break, my state pension forecast is still saying that I need to contribute for another 4 years to gain the maximum pension of (currently) £175.20. I think it said the same thing a year ago. I work for the NHS as a senior manager and pay the usual tax/NI every month so the lack of progress is worrying with just 6 years until my intended retirement age of 60. Could it be because I am contracted out of SERPS within my NHS pension scheme? If so, is there anything I could/should do about this?
2. I have had a 'frozen' NatWest pension since leaving them 17 years ago. I check the pension updates every year and see that the fund is actually reducing or at best staying still every year? Is that right when I am reading on here that others have pension pots growing at great rates. I thought that Bank pensions were highly thought of but mine looks dismal after 19 years of service contributions. Should I consider moving my fund away from NatWest - noting my intention to withdraw maximum cash for retirement in only 6 years' time?
Hope you can help as all of the messages on here indicating huge growth in pensions is leaving me more than a little concerned that my funds are not 'performing' as they might be.
Cheers
A couple of things to note.
Should you want to transfer the NW scheme away from them & into a Pension of your own you will need specialist advice.. ..and that doesn't come cheap anymore. Starting figure would be around £5k and that is just for the report detailing the benefits of the NW scheme & whether it is better left where it is or not. The new FCA guidelines start with the premise that it is always worse off to transfer unless the report can prove otherwise.
Also, if you do transfer the pension into your own scheme then you will have a fund of £500k to go against the Lifetime Allowance (currently £1,070,000). It would only need an NHS pension of £25k pa (plus the £75k lump sum) to send you over the LTA and thus subject to an excess tax charge.
First thing I would ask is what pension are NW offering at age 60. Then, what are you expecting from the NHS. Once you have these figures you will be in a better position to decide what to do next.
Not necessarily true about taking advice. About 18 months ago I decided to transfer my Scottish Widows stakeholder pension into a Hargreaves Lansdown drawdown SIPP. After taking my 25% tax-free lump I was left with £149k which I then selected 14 funds to invest in - based mainly on advice seen on here from you, @PragueAddick, @Rob7lee and maybe one or two others...it's now worth £175k. Not actually drawing anything as I have 3 other pensions and would be paying higher-rate tax. Did find that once transferred the HL drawdown process (for on-demand occasional sums and not a regular amount) were easy to understand.
Hi Large …… that's what I was thinking but when I tell you that the age 60 retirement illustration translates into an annual pension of just £13,388 OR cash of £79198 + annual pension of just £11,880, it doesn't feel that great for 19 years of service in what (I thought) was seen as a strong Bank pension.
Typical defined benefit pensions would be 1/60th of pensionable salary for each year of service. For 19 years service that would be 19/60ths of your salary at the time of leaving and the £13,388 might be based on that figure rather than what it might be now based on inflation.
If it is based on your salary at the time of leaving the scheme then £13,388 as 19/60ths of your final salary would equate to your salary when leaving Nat West of just over £42k - does that sound about right?
Please can someone 'ITK' (Golfie?) answer the following questions for me:
1. State Pension: despite having made pension contributions for more than 38 years without a break, my state pension forecast is still saying that I need to contribute for another 4 years to gain the maximum pension of (currently) £175.20. I think it said the same thing a year ago. I work for the NHS as a senior manager and pay the usual tax/NI every month so the lack of progress is worrying with just 6 years until my intended retirement age of 60. Could it be because I am contracted out of SERPS within my NHS pension scheme? If so, is there anything I could/should do about this?
2. I have had a 'frozen' NatWest pension since leaving them 17 years ago. I check the pension updates every year and see that the fund is actually reducing or at best staying still every year? Is that right when I am reading on here that others have pension pots growing at great rates. I thought that Bank pensions were highly thought of but mine looks dismal after 19 years of service contributions. Should I consider moving my fund away from NatWest - noting my intention to withdraw maximum cash for retirement in only 6 years' time?
Hope you can help as all of the messages on here indicating huge growth in pensions is leaving me more than a little concerned that my funds are not 'performing' as they might be.
Cheers
A couple of things to note.
Should you want to transfer the NW scheme away from them & into a Pension of your own you will need specialist advice.. ..and that doesn't come cheap anymore. Starting figure would be around £5k and that is just for the report detailing the benefits of the NW scheme & whether it is better left where it is or not. The new FCA guidelines start with the premise that it is always worse off to transfer unless the report can prove otherwise.
Also, if you do transfer the pension into your own scheme then you will have a fund of £500k to go against the Lifetime Allowance (currently £1,070,000). It would only need an NHS pension of £25k pa (plus the £75k lump sum) to send you over the LTA and thus subject to an excess tax charge.
First thing I would ask is what pension are NW offering at age 60. Then, what are you expecting from the NHS. Once you have these figures you will be in a better position to decide what to do next.
Not necessarily true about taking advice. About 18 months ago I decided to transfer my Scottish Widows stakeholder pension into a Hargreaves Lansdown drawdown SIPP. After taking my 25% tax-free lump I was left with £149k which I then selected 14 funds to invest in - based mainly on advice seen on here from you, @PragueAddick, @Rob7lee and maybe one or two others...it's now worth £175k. Not actually drawing anything as I have 3 other pensions and would be paying higher-rate tax. Did find that once transferred the HL drawdown process (for on-demand occasional sums and not a regular amount) were easy to understand.
To be clear, I was talking about transferring a final salary (DB) scheme. It true that you don't need advice about transferring DC schemes.......but you should !
Comments
For example, I have a SIPP which is now on the Hargreaves Lansdowne platform. In my naivety I supposed that I can just directly withdraw amounts up to the limit directly. Oh no. For a reason which is not explained, I have to apply to make it a drawdown pension. H-L claims that there are no extra charges. I am not sure I believe that, but either way, why do we have this bureaucracy?
It's so over complicated.
Starting to question if it was wise to start paying into my pension again..........
Then I take away all my praise for him as at the same time the Annual Allowance & the Lifetime Allowance were introduced. The Annual allowance started off at £265k.......its now £40k. The Lifetime Allowance started off at £1.5m and went up steadily to £1.8m. In 2010 when the Coalition came in it was supposed to go up to £2m. Instead it has steadily decreased & currently stands at just under £1.1m. This is where the silent tax take has been coming from. I understand all the righteous indignation over wellfare cuts & the pain austerity has caused to millions of working class folk, but many of them have no idea how much tax is being taken at the upper end of the scale. And I'm not talking about millionaires, footballers or businessman. Just your ordinary GP, Hospital Consultant & Head Teacher.
Anyway.....mustn't grumble. All these changes have kept me in a job.....😄
Is it all smooth sailing? I just my Stocks and Share ISA but won't be topping up to the max, so think this may be a more suitable vehicle for a safe fund.
On a Pension note, my Dad continued to invest his pension since retirement and it has grown well with it's investment in equity/managed funds. He's filling in the forms to now sell the funds and move the pension (from Zurich to Hargreaves), but this process can take upto 6 weeks I believe.
What with the US election and current state of markets, is it advisable that he continues to get this going this week, or if he doesn't need to income before end of year, wait and hold off to see how Biden/Trump shake or shape the Global markets?
He was looking to kick-start this process in March, then saw the markets collapse, then saw them perform better than expected. Are clients looking to move forwards with their pension plans being advised something specific in the current climate @golfaddick?
Please can someone 'ITK' (Golfie?) answer the following questions for me:
1. State Pension: despite having made pension contributions for more than 38 years without a break, my state pension forecast is still saying that I need to contribute for another 4 years to gain the maximum pension of (currently) £175.20. I think it said the same thing a year ago. I work for the NHS as a senior manager and pay the usual tax/NI every month so the lack of progress is worrying with just 6 years until my intended retirement age of 60. Could it be because I am contracted out of SERPS within my NHS pension scheme? If so, is there anything I could/should do about this?
2. I have had a 'frozen' NatWest pension since leaving them 17 years ago. I check the pension updates every year and see that the fund is actually reducing or at best staying still every year? Is that right when I am reading on here that others have pension pots growing at great rates. I thought that Bank pensions were highly thought of but mine looks dismal after 19 years of service contributions. Should I consider moving my fund away from NatWest - noting my intention to withdraw maximum cash for retirement in only 6 years' time?
Hope you can help as all of the messages on here indicating huge growth in pensions is leaving me more than a little concerned that my funds are not 'performing' as they might be.
Cheers
To be honest there will always be a time lag or a period when you are out of the market. Not much can be done about it & fingers crossed your father doesn't sell or buy at the wrong moment.......but I wouldn't hold it up because of US elections or Brexit deals
Should you want to transfer the NW scheme away from them & into a Pension of your own you will need specialist advice.. ..and that doesn't come cheap anymore. Starting figure would be around £5k and that is just for the report detailing the benefits of the NW scheme & whether it is better left where it is or not. The new FCA guidelines start with the premise that it is always worse off to transfer unless the report can prove otherwise.
Also, if you do transfer the pension into your own scheme then you will have a fund of £500k to go against the Lifetime Allowance (currently £1,070,000). It would only need an NHS pension of £25k pa (plus the £75k lump sum) to send you over the LTA and thus subject to an excess tax charge.
First thing I would ask is what pension are NW offering at age 60. Then, what are you expecting from the NHS. Once you have these figures you will be in a better position to decide what to do next.
Hi Golfie. Yes, I did get that year-by-year breakdown and manually added it up to a total of 38+ years. that's what's I don't understand.
Hi Large …… that's what I was thinking but when I tell you that the age 60 retirement illustration translates into an annual pension of just £13,388 OR cash of £79198 + annual pension of just £11,880, it doesn't feel that great for 19 years of service in what (I thought) was seen as a strong Bank pension.
Thanks Daarrz………..I might well call them as the year-by-year NI breakdown shows 'full payment' for every year. The pay at NatWest wasn't amazing (I left as a branch manager of £22k in 2003 after 19 years of service!) but probably decent enough to count each and every year I would have thought. Since, joining the NHS 17 years ago, my salary has been at least double the average wage in the UK. Weird huh?
Don't forget those figures are based on your salary when you left and (depending on the scheme) increases to the deferred pension in line with inflation /CPI
If it is based on your salary at the time of leaving the scheme then £13,388 as 19/60ths of your final salary would equate to your salary when leaving Nat West of just over £42k - does that sound about right?