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todays crowd 11,500 ?

johnboy59
johnboy59 Posts: 70
in General Charlton
Haven’t renewed my season ticket for me and youngest son (now 24) but went today with that dilemma that I know many have. Don’t want to put money in the owners pockets but don’t want to forgo the father son bonding stuff. This is my justification for going today. But my question is around the reported size of today’s crowd. So last night after to many beers I had a bet with a Charlton supporting mate on the size of today’s crowd (nearest wins) I went with 6,500 he called 10,000. So has won on 11,500 odd. I am old enough to remember the days when clubs used fiddle the attendances declaring much lower numbers than the actual (probably to avoid tax) now I know the attendance figures today will include sold season tickets and away fans but I am struggling to see how the club can report 11,500 odd unless they are counting thousands of freebees that never got used.
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Comments

  • Airman Brown
    Airman Brown Posts: 15,772
    johnboy59 said:

    Haven’t renewed my season ticket for me and youngest son (now 24) but went today with that dilemma that I know many have. Don’t want to put money in the owners pockets but don’t want to forgo the father son bonding stuff. This is my justification for going today. But my question is around the reported size of today’s crowd. So last night after to many beers I had a bet with a Charlton supporting mate on the size of today’s crowd (nearest wins) I went with 6,500 he called 10,000. So has won on 11,500 odd. I am old enough to remember the days when clubs used fiddle the attendances declaring much lower numbers than the actual (probably to avoid tax) now I know the attendance figures today will include sold season tickets and away fans but I am struggling to see how the club can report 11,500 odd unless they are counting thousands of freebees that never got used.

    That's exactly how.
  • kentred2
    kentred2 Posts: 2,344
    There will come a game when only 900 people are there but they will announce 10000. The clue for the idiots is the word attendance.
  • ross1
    ross1 Posts: 51,055
    They can put out any figures they like, but they know the true figure and they cannot be happy with it
  • letthegoodtimesroll
    letthegoodtimesroll Posts: 10,694
    TBF, if there wasn't 11,500 in the ground today, it still looked a much better crowd than most people were expecting.
  • altrinchamaddick
    altrinchamaddick Posts: 947
    I was there and have supported Charlton for a long time, and I guestimated a crowd of around 11,000. So no, I don't think this figure has been manipulated by the regime.
  • Beardface
    Beardface Posts: 1,132
    edited August 2016
    They count the total number sold. This will include freebies to boost attendance.

    From 2008 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1083630/The-truth-modern-day-attendances-How-clubs-count-missing-fans.html

    And the following which suggests a FOI request to the met police demonstrated Arsenal were over-stating actual attendances by 5-6k:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/11033221/Arsenal-announce-attendances-6000-higher-than-official-Met-Police-figures.html

    I'll be sending a FOI request to the met police tomorrow and will post the response once received in several weeks.
  • letthegoodtimesroll
    letthegoodtimesroll Posts: 10,694
    Beardface said:

    They count the total number sold. This will include freebies to boost attendance.

    From 2008 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1083630/The-truth-modern-day-attendances-How-clubs-count-missing-fans.html

    And the following which suggests a FOI request to the met police suggested Arsenal were over standing actual attendances by 5-6k:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/11033221/Arsenal-announce-attendances-6000-higher-than-official-Met-Police-figures.html

    I'll be sending a FOI request to the met police tomorrow and will post the response once received in several weeks.

    Good idea, it's not as if the Met has anything better to do with their resources than respond to a FOI about the actual size of a crowd everybody else agrees was actually quite decent all things considered.
  • Beardface
    Beardface Posts: 1,132
    edited August 2016
    letthegoodtimesroll said:

    Beardface said:

    They count the total number sold. This will include freebies to boost attendance.

    From 2008 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1083630/The-truth-modern-day-attendances-How-clubs-count-missing-fans.html

    And the following which suggests a FOI request to the met police suggested Arsenal were over standing actual attendances by 5-6k:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/11033221/Arsenal-announce-attendances-6000-higher-than-official-Met-Police-figures.html

    I'll be sending a FOI request to the met police tomorrow and will post the response once received in several weeks.

    Good idea, it's not as if the Met has anything better to do with their resources than respond to a FOI about the actual size of a crowd everybody else agrees was actually quite decent all things considered.
    Sometimes it's what you have to do to get to the truth. Charlton fans set up a political party once, guess that was a waste of resource too.
  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,334
    letthegoodtimesroll said:

    Beardface said:

    They count the total number sold. This will include freebies to boost attendance.

    From 2008 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1083630/The-truth-modern-day-attendances-How-clubs-count-missing-fans.html

    And the following which suggests a FOI request to the met police suggested Arsenal were over standing actual attendances by 5-6k:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/11033221/Arsenal-announce-attendances-6000-higher-than-official-Met-Police-figures.html

    I'll be sending a FOI request to the met police tomorrow and will post the response once received in several weeks.

    Good idea, it's not as if the Met has anything better to do with their resources than respond to a FOI about the actual size of a crowd everybody else agrees was actually quite decent all things considered.
    No, we don't all agree it was quite decent.

    It was the lowest crowd since March 1998.

    Even if there were 11,500 in the ground, which there wasn't, it is in no way a decent crowd.

    Let's see what the gate is on Tuesday but I think it could go under 10k even officially.
  • AFKABartram
    AFKABartram Posts: 57,921
    West and North West

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  • AFKABartram
    AFKABartram Posts: 57,921
    Wait until Tuesday, you will be lucky to see 5,000 in the ground
  • Badger
    Badger Posts: 4,842
    I suspect the gate on Tuesday will be a lot less than 11,500.
  • Leeds_Addick
    Leeds_Addick Posts: 4,715
    AFKABartram said:

    West and North West

    Can't be many more than 1500 in that pic?
  • RedChaser
    RedChaser Posts: 19,890
    edited August 2016
    Someone's trying to fill the void left by PL54 & Colin methinks. :trollface:
  • RanTooFar
    RanTooFar Posts: 324
    If they were smart, they would have closed the West Upper
  • soapy_jones
    soapy_jones Posts: 21,416
    RanTooFar said:

    If they were smart, they would have closed the West Upper

    Chortle
  • Airman Brown
    Airman Brown Posts: 15,772
    The east appeared to be filled with comps, the lower north looked under the number of season tickets sold there. I would guess the comp turnout was reasonable (more than 50 per cent) but there is absolutely no way you would get more than 85 per cent of season tickets holders, e.g. 5,000 out of 6,000 - absolutely nailed on shortfall.

    No way the ground was 42% full overall. Can see Tuesday being 9,500 official and 7,500 in the stadium (assuming 500 Shrews).
  • Bedsaddick
    Bedsaddick Posts: 24,830
    edited August 2016
    I was there today and I would definitely say there was well over 10k ( partially thanks to the Northampton fans) but I guess we will never know .
  • newyorkaddick
    newyorkaddick Posts: 3,054
    Agree that the attendance was way below 11.5k but the atmosphere wasn't too bad to be fair - we are fortunate the Valley has decent acoustics.
  • Airman Brown
    Airman Brown Posts: 15,772
    Bedsaddick said:

    I was there today and I would definitely say there was well over 10k ( partially thanks to the Northampton fans) but I guess we will never know .

    I should think from experience and observation the west was under 20 per cent full and the north under 30 per cent. We know there were 1,283 from Northampton (which will be pretty accurate).

    If there were 1,500 in the west and 3,000 in the north and the quadrants, the east stand would need to be at capacity to achieve the announced attendance. It wasn't.

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  • ElfsborgAddick
    ElfsborgAddick Posts: 29,253
    letthegoodtimesroll said:

    TBF, if there wasn't 11,500 in the ground today, it still looked a much better crowd than most people were expecting.

    How many do you think were there?
  • drewman
    drewman Posts: 1,104
    What was the crowd for the first home game in 2011-12 season? Against Bournemouth if my memory serves me correctly.
  • ElfsborgAddick
    ElfsborgAddick Posts: 29,253
    AFKABartram said:

    Wait until Tuesday, you will be lucky to see 5,000 in the ground

    Officially not happening as 5300'ish season ticket holders.
  • Airman Brown
    Airman Brown Posts: 15,772
    ElfsborgAddick said:

    AFKABartram said:

    Wait until Tuesday, you will be lucky to see 5,000 in the ground

    Officially not happening as 5300'ish season ticket holders.
    More now. Say 6,000.
  • shirty5
    shirty5 Posts: 19,287
    johnboy59 said:

    Haven’t renewed my season ticket for me and youngest son (now 24) but went today with that dilemma that I know many have. Don’t want to put money in the owners pockets but don’t want to forgo the father son bonding stuff. This is my justification for going today. But my question is around the reported size of today’s crowd. So last night after to many beers I had a bet with a Charlton supporting mate on the size of today’s crowd (nearest wins) I went with 6,500 he called 10,000. So has won on 11,500 odd. I am old enough to remember the days when clubs used fiddle the attendances declaring much lower numbers than the actual (probably to avoid tax) now I know the attendance figures today will include sold season tickets and away fans but I am struggling to see how the club can report 11,500 odd unless they are counting thousands of freebees that never got used.

    As a young lad I was always amazed by the figures given for the Cup games against Ipswich, Watford & Spurs between 83-85. Seemed more in there than announced. Now it appears to be the opposite.
  • newyorkaddick
    newyorkaddick Posts: 3,054
    West=2,000
    East=1,800
    North=2,000
    South=1,300
    Corners=250
    TOTAL=7,350
  • letthegoodtimesroll
    letthegoodtimesroll Posts: 10,694
    .
    shirty5 said:

    johnboy59 said:

    Haven’t renewed my season ticket for me and youngest son (now 24) but went today with that dilemma that I know many have. Don’t want to put money in the owners pockets but don’t want to forgo the father son bonding stuff. This is my justification for going today. But my question is around the reported size of today’s crowd. So last night after to many beers I had a bet with a Charlton supporting mate on the size of today’s crowd (nearest wins) I went with 6,500 he called 10,000. So has won on 11,500 odd. I am old enough to remember the days when clubs used fiddle the attendances declaring much lower numbers than the actual (probably to avoid tax) now I know the attendance figures today will include sold season tickets and away fans but I am struggling to see how the club can report 11,500 odd unless they are counting thousands of freebees that never got used.

    As a young lad I was always amazed by the figures given for the Cup games against Ipswich, Watford & Spurs between 83-85. Seemed more in there than announced. Now it appears to be the opposite.
    Those were the days, probably still the then largest official capacity league ground or close to it and you couldn't have put the proverbial fag paper between fans and they'd announce a 20k crowd...
  • Airman Brown
    Airman Brown Posts: 15,772
    There was a safety limit of 20,000. Despite that the club announced crowds that exceeded it - but I think they had to show some respect to it.

    Also they could only count people who entered through the official entrances!
  • TellyTubby
    TellyTubby Posts: 3,559
    newyorkaddick said:

    West=2,000
    East=1,800
    North=2,000
    South=1,300
    Corners=250
    TOTAL=7,350

    My best guestimate is 1600 in the West from the photo earlier. You could be pretty close to reality.
  • clb74
    clb74 Posts: 10,830
    Not a bad crowd seeing as we had roughly 5000 boycotting

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