In today's play-off second leg FCC lost 0-1 at home to an 82nd minute goal from Viktoria Köln, but by virtue of their 3-2 first leg away win FCC are promoted to 3.Bundesliga !!
I assume they're quite well supported for that level of football? In those first leg highlights they're away but seems like more than half the ground is full of their fans
Despite an outstanding season VK were playing before hundreds. In the play-off game the crowd was 6241, of which around 4000 had travelled the 250 miles from Jena. FCC draw around 4000 to home games. They have very good away support.
FCC played a total of 87 European ties, all in the GDR era.
As RB Leipzig have shown, a bit of momentum and investment can get you far in German football. Obviously due to the 50+1 rule there RD can't fully takeover the place, but I'd suggest he should probably invest his time and effort into them, STVV and Alcorcon, and sell us. Getting from the third tier to the top tier in Germany would be a damn sight cheaper than in England
When I was a teenager Carl Zeiss Jena were a UEFA Cup team.
Indeed . When Alan and I visited, the wall full of photos and press cuttings from their cup runs was proudly shown to us. I felt a bit embarassed because I had forgotten how big they were. They played Swansea in one game and I think another British team - maybe @GlassHalfFull recalls.
@Chris_from_Sidcup They have been getting around 4,500 per game, in what is only a regional league. But for cup games they somehow are allowed to bring in temporary stands and when they played I think Hamburg SV and VFB Stuttgart they crammed 18,000 in. That's when you start to see the full potential. The thing is, they represent a proud city, the home of Carl Zeiss,even if the HQ is in the West now, and like many East German cities, it is slowly getting back on its feet. This could go well, especially as they can keep RD out of the football side of things.
I am delighted for them. They made us very welcome, the fans we met were great, and they do a good job of keeping Duchatelet in his box. They are, in short, a proper football club with a pedigree and a soul. They think the same about us.
I've sort of adopted FC Carl Zeiss Jena as my German team, partly because they're family, partly because of this thread and more strangely because I've a fasination towards Napoleonic History and Jena is of course where the Battle of Jena–Auerstedt took place... I mean do FCC stand a good chance going up into the next Division, should they be able to challenge quite well or could it be a Huddersfield type scenario?
I've sort of adopted FC Carl Zeiss Jena as my German team, partly because they're family, partly because of this thread and more strangely because I've a fasination towards Napoleonic History and Jena is of course where the Battle of Jena–Auerstedt took place... I mean do FCC stand a good chance going up into the next Division, should they be able to challenge quite well or could it be a Huddersfield type scenario?
Can't pretend to have watched any but the 3rd liga is national; so that is a step up for starters. It has some big name teams there which i can remember being in the top flight, but it also has some "B" teams. It only recently became "Bundesliga 3", and with it, I believe, relatively more TV money. I would imagine they will look to consolidate. The other factor may be whether in Bundesliga 2, there are stadium minimum requirements which Jena currently doesn't comply with. To be fair, they would be addressed by RD's commercial development plan.
Jena is in the state of Thuringia. Much of interest - the famous city of Weimar, Wartburg Castle near Eisenach, the Harz Mountains narrow-gauge steam railway, and also places of unspeakable infamy - near Weimar Buchenwald KL and near Nordhausen Mittelbau Dora death factory.
Football in 3.Liga? Well, some well-known names like 1860 Munich (relegated just this week from 2.Bundesliga) and Hansa Rostock; recent escapees from FCC's division Magdeburg and Zwickau have finished fourth and fifth this season, and of especial interest to the Ultras the chance to renew League hostilities with deadliest rivals Rot-Weiß Erfurt.
Btw, I have been asked to write an article on FCC for CAS Trust News - watch this space.
Now - straight from Hangover City .... Andreas Trautmann, FCC's head of Communications and Marketing
Dear Alan,
I am so happy and full of emotions. We are back! 5 difficult years are now behind us. I thank you so much for your support and your kind emails. It is so important to know, how many people like and love this club. It keeps us under pressure and going forward.
Best wishes and greetings to you, Newport and Wales. Greets to our welsh friends. Proud to such a relationship. This is Europe.
Wish you all the best!
See you soon!
Andreas
.............
I am reading this with tears in my eyes and dark rage in my heart. The former is about how real football folk connect - comradeship, respect and unshakeable memories. NCFC can be so proud. The latter concerns a misguided old man who thought he could buy five football clubs and then treat them with no more interest than ant farms, to make him feel like ROLAND ALMIGHTY !! Our ambitions - shattered. Our promised Network - a broken dream. Our clubs - eviscerated. Fans, players, staff - BETRAYED, every one of us. Hartstikke bedankt, ouwe paardelul !!
So true. RD should be made to read that post, and should feel ashamed of himself. He could have had so much good will here if he had done things differently rather than his way.
Some more news of interest - courtesy of @MadGerman - 1860 Munich must produce evidence of funds to cover next season in 3.Liga. The club has one main benefactor, so if he loses interest and pulls out 1860 will by-pass 3.Liga and go straight down to the fourth tier.
The demise of 1860 is quite remarkable given the size of the club and that at the turn of the century that played in the champions league and as recently as 2004 were in the Bundesliga. Over 60k watched their play off in midweek. They must be an even worse run club than we are!
Andreas has just mailed me about his message and the reference to NCFC and the Welsh. Of course he knows that we're not Welsh - it's just that he had been replying to many congratulatory messages from the Newport folks, which is amazing as their tie was in 1980/81. Now that's a lasting friendship ....
The demise of 1860 is quite remarkable given the size of the club and that at the turn of the century that played in the champions league and as recently as 2004 were in the Bundesliga. Over 60k watched their play off in midweek. They must be an even worse run club than we are!
It's been a slow, painful demise. It cannot help, playing in such a huge stadium (mostly empty). Recently Dynamo Dresden did their best to help - for their away game they took 25000 to Munich !!
1860 were indeed giants - I can still remember the goalkeeper from 1965 ECWC Wembley Final vs WHU. Radenkovic was a great character, a kindred spirit of Charlie Wright - "Ra-di, Ra-di!!"
The only good thing to say is that 1860 are The Lions - we can only hope that some of their monstrous misfortune rubs off on our charmless friends from SE16 ....
The demise of 1860 is quite remarkable given the size of the club and that at the turn of the century that played in the champions league and as recently as 2004 were in the Bundesliga. Over 60k watched their play off in midweek. They must be an even worse run club than we are!
And this has been a contributor to the now massive strength of Bayern. They now own the Allianz outright whereas the original deal was 50:50 with TSV. However several years ago when TSV first managed to nearly bankrupt themselves, Bayern bought them out as a way to save them, and TSV rented from then on.
In spite of the 50+1 rule, German football seems to have possibly more bankruptcies and upheavals at clubs in the middle to lower tiers than English football has had in the last 20 years. Does the 50+1 rule create or at least tend to worsen a different set of problems?
50+1 must surely preclude an RD-type set-up because while the patron is welcomed for his money, he has no control. RD has 49,98 per cent of the club, and maintains the adherence to his wishes by having the Supervisory Council comprised of people favourable to him. Dissenters are removed. FCC lose a million € a year and should have been broke long ago. And they are waiting for RD to fork out €26 million towards the new stadium ....
Well, he has injected cash in the form of loans (of course). The promise when he bought his 49% was something like 6 million in loans in all, iirc. They ran through the first couple of instalments very quickly. That was, on the face of it, his justification for taking control.
There is obviously an inherent tension between the businessman putting all or most of the money in and having people overrule his wishes. I wonder if the effect of 50+1 is sometimes that, when there is a lack of success, the investor can get fed up quickly and pull out their money or cut their losses, leaving the pro club in an immediate survival crisis. That was what RD threatened to do, if he did not get a more compliant Supervisory Board.
Well I've said it before - Goethe was only a few miles away in Weimar when he wrote Faust ....
Today is most certainly not the day to sprinkle vinegar on anyone's fireworks, but some day the Devil's bill will have to be paid. It's yet another unconscious irony that our inscrutable owner is teamed up with Carl Zeiss, whose corporate motto is "We make it visible".
I've watched that outstanding video well over a dozen times - oooh, baby, gimme some of that !! Anyone interested in a visit to Paradies when Rot-Weiß Erfurt come to town ??
In spite of the 50+1 rule, German football seems to have possibly more bankruptcies and upheavals at clubs in the middle to lower tiers than English football has had in the last 20 years. Does the 50+1 rule create or at least tend to worsen a different set of problems?
I am quite surprised to read this - because you obviously know stuff about German football. I thought the received wisdom is that Germany has avoided the chaos- at least in the top 2 divisions. As I understand it, TSV isn't actually bankrupt, but cannot meet the strict regulations the Bundesliga has. This may be stretching things, but isn't the analogy that QPR would have suffered the same fate, if they were German?
Sorry, I wouldn't say I know much, only snippets here and there, so it's a genuine question. It's just that when I do look for some club on wiki, etc, on the basis of what happened to them, it looks like they have suffered turmoil. To be fair, this may be a kind of self-selecting survey, if you see what I mean.
Some examples are:
Lokomotive Leipzig (phoenix club since mid-2000s),
Alemannia Aachen (Bundesliga in 2000s, bankrupt in 2012),
SSV Ulm (Bundesliga in 1999, betting scandal and bankrupt 3 times in 13 years),
Magdeburg (Osti 1974 ECWC winners, nearly bankrupt in 2000s),
Rot-Weiss Essen (financial problems for many a long year, bankrupt in 2010, now in regionalliga)
Fortuna Dusseldorf (the ultimate yoyo club, now in 2. Bundesliga, but it has had severe financial problems in the 2000s).
All of those are still going in some form.
And whatever happened to Paderborn? You can actually google that question and get various explanations. I haven't read that they have been in financial trouble exactly, but, after making it to the Bundesliga for the first time in 2014, they have been relegated 3 times in 3 years, although they might escape the most recent one, if 1860 Munich get forcibly demoted instead. There are stories about how they over-achieved, their stars (including the coach) were poached because they couldn't afford to keep them, etc, but it's quite a fall.
Comments
RD only has 49% share, and Jena has never participated in the network. There's a lesson there for RD, if only he would show the humility to absorb it.
Highlights from play-off first leg - brilliant goals from Thiele !!
On the eve of tomorrow's second-leg play-off showdown with Viktoria Köln, a short appetiser ....
Heaven Shall Burn, yes indeed - I'm sure that by 7 o'clock tomorrow evening Paradies will be in flames
In today's play-off second leg FCC lost 0-1 at home to an 82nd minute goal from Viktoria Köln, but by virtue of their 3-2 first leg away win FCC are promoted to 3.Bundesliga !!
More to follow ....
Despite an outstanding season VK were playing before hundreds. In the play-off game the crowd was 6241, of which around 4000 had travelled the 250 miles from Jena. FCC draw around 4000 to home games. They have very good away support.
FCC played a total of 87 European ties, all in the GDR era.
Just found this short video of Thiele's unbelievable first goal against VK.
@Chris_from_Sidcup They have been getting around 4,500 per game, in what is only a regional league. But for cup games they somehow are allowed to bring in temporary stands and when they played I think Hamburg SV and VFB Stuttgart they crammed 18,000 in. That's when you start to see the full potential. The thing is, they represent a proud city, the home of Carl Zeiss,even if the HQ is in the West now, and like many East German cities, it is slowly getting back on its feet. This could go well, especially as they can keep RD out of the football side of things.
I am delighted for them. They made us very welcome, the fans we met were great, and they do a good job of keeping Duchatelet in his box. They are, in short, a proper football club with a pedigree and a soul. They think the same about us.
Scenes today after the final whistle ....
Exactly as PA says. They had a memorable match against Newport County, and they also played WBA.
Herewith the video of their 1980 match against Roma - fantastic game !!
(Am I mistaken, or is it the same commentator as the Thiele film ?)
I've sort of adopted FC Carl Zeiss Jena as my German team, partly because they're family, partly because of this thread and more strangely because I've a fasination towards Napoleonic History and Jena is of course where the Battle of Jena–Auerstedt took place... I mean do FCC stand a good chance going up into the next Division, should they be able to challenge quite well or could it be a Huddersfield type scenario?
@ForeverAddicted - glad the thread has been of interest.
You'll find some Cup info and other stuff on here -
http://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/68636/fantastic-win-for-4th-tier-cz-jena-against-hamburg/p1
Jena is in the state of Thuringia. Much of interest - the famous city of Weimar, Wartburg Castle near Eisenach, the Harz Mountains narrow-gauge steam railway, and also places of unspeakable infamy - near Weimar Buchenwald KL and near Nordhausen Mittelbau Dora death factory.
Football in 3.Liga? Well, some well-known names like 1860 Munich (relegated just this week from 2.Bundesliga) and Hansa Rostock; recent escapees from FCC's division Magdeburg and Zwickau have finished fourth and fifth this season, and of especial interest to the Ultras the chance to renew League hostilities with deadliest rivals Rot-Weiß Erfurt.
Btw, I have been asked to write an article on FCC for CAS Trust News - watch this space.
Dear Alan,
I am so happy and full of emotions. We are back! 5 difficult years are now behind us. I thank you so much for your support and your kind emails. It is so important to know, how many people like and love this club. It keeps us under pressure and going forward.
Best wishes and greetings to you, Newport and Wales. Greets to our welsh friends. Proud to such a relationship. This is Europe.
Wish you all the best!
See you soon!
Andreas
.............
I am reading this with tears in my eyes and dark rage in my heart. The former is about how real football folk connect - comradeship, respect and unshakeable memories. NCFC can be so proud. The latter concerns a misguided old man who thought he could buy five football clubs and then treat them with no more interest than ant farms, to make him feel like ROLAND ALMIGHTY !! Our ambitions - shattered. Our promised Network - a broken dream. Our clubs - eviscerated. Fans, players, staff - BETRAYED, every one of us. Hartstikke bedankt, ouwe paardelul !!
Some more news of interest - courtesy of @MadGerman - 1860 Munich must produce evidence of funds to cover next season in 3.Liga. The club has one main benefactor, so if he loses interest and pulls out 1860 will by-pass 3.Liga and go straight down to the fourth tier.
Andreas has just mailed me about his message and the reference to NCFC and the Welsh. Of course he knows that we're not Welsh - it's just that he had been replying to many congratulatory messages from the Newport folks, which is amazing as their tie was in 1980/81. Now that's a lasting friendship ....
1860 were indeed giants - I can still remember the goalkeeper from 1965 ECWC Wembley Final vs WHU. Radenkovic was a great character, a kindred spirit of Charlie Wright - "Ra-di, Ra-di!!"
The only good thing to say is that 1860 are The Lions - we can only hope that some of their monstrous misfortune rubs off on our charmless friends from SE16 ....
There is obviously an inherent tension between the businessman putting all or most of the money in and having people overrule his wishes. I wonder if the effect of 50+1 is sometimes that, when there is a lack of success, the investor can get fed up quickly and pull out their money or cut their losses, leaving the pro club in an immediate survival crisis. That was what RD threatened to do, if he did not get a more compliant Supervisory Board.
Well I've said it before - Goethe was only a few miles away in Weimar when he wrote Faust ....
Today is most certainly not the day to sprinkle vinegar on anyone's fireworks, but some day the Devil's bill will have to be paid. It's yet another unconscious irony that our inscrutable owner is teamed up with Carl Zeiss, whose corporate motto is "We make it visible".
I've watched that outstanding video well over a dozen times - oooh, baby, gimme some of that !! Anyone interested in a visit to Paradies when Rot-Weiß Erfurt come to town ??
Some examples are:
Lokomotive Leipzig (phoenix club since mid-2000s),
Alemannia Aachen (Bundesliga in 2000s, bankrupt in 2012),
SSV Ulm (Bundesliga in 1999, betting scandal and bankrupt 3 times in 13 years),
Magdeburg (Osti 1974 ECWC winners, nearly bankrupt in 2000s),
Rot-Weiss Essen (financial problems for many a long year, bankrupt in 2010, now in regionalliga)
Fortuna Dusseldorf (the ultimate yoyo club, now in 2. Bundesliga, but it has had severe financial problems in the 2000s).
All of those are still going in some form.
And whatever happened to Paderborn? You can actually google that question and get various explanations. I haven't read that they have been in financial trouble exactly, but, after making it to the Bundesliga for the first time in 2014, they have been relegated 3 times in 3 years, although they might escape the most recent one, if 1860 Munich get forcibly demoted instead. There are stories about how they over-achieved, their stars (including the coach) were poached because they couldn't afford to keep them, etc, but it's quite a fall.
http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/3liga/startseite/679633/artikel_jena-muss-bei-abendspielen-nach-zwickau-umziehen.html