Having southgate in charge just feels right and what he has done with the team since he got in has been nothing short of outstanding very underated by alot i feel !
he deserves everything he has got and gets from here and has built a spirit and bond amongst the whole england group which i really think is special and what with all the young quality we have in pretty much every position now will bring success for many more years
I know this is on the basis of recent fixtures etc, but I am starting to think Southgate may be a more long term manager then anyone would or could expect.
He is trustworthy and he now knows the players on a personal level.
Everyone gets things wrong in any job they do.
It's about continuing to learn.
I'm sure he listens to those who advise him. Including our ex manager.
It is easy to criticise Southgate. In many ways the job is a dream but in so many others it is a poisoned chalice. Given the wealth of talent at his disposal he is open to obvious criticism when he fails to go all guns blazing or bow to fickle opinion and pick the flavour of the month (last year it was Grealish, this time it is Foden/Maddison). His record is far superior to his immediate predecessors who, arguably had just as many resources at hand (golden generation anyone?). A final, a semi and the distinct possibility of significant progression this time round is a hell of an achievement. Through it all he conducts himself impeccably and with great dignity/statesmanship in increasingly fraught and difficult times. It is difficult to be a public figure in these evolving times when one word in the wrong context can result in airbrushing. He is an exceptional public figure. His Achilles heel is his tendency towards conservatism on the field and the suspicion that he has some favourites (Mount, Sterling etc). But there are signs in this tournament (9 goals so far for a kick off despite boring the pants of us against USA) that the gloves are coming off. England haven’t taken full advantage of a couple of outrageously lucky tournament draws but I do wonder if this might be their moment. Hard to see, despite the odd limitation, how England could do better than Southgate at the moment. Assuming that an Englishman is preferrred for the job, Howe isn’t going anywhere and Potter is in the process of being sussed. Who’s next in line…….? Be careful what you wish for folks.
It is easy to criticise Southgate. In many ways the job is a dream but in so many others it is a poisoned chalice. Given the wealth of talent at his disposal he is open to obvious criticism when he fails to go all guns blazing or bow to fickle opinion and pick the flavour of the month (last year it was Grealish, this time it is Foden/Maddison). His record is far superior to his immediate predecessors who, arguably had just as many resources at hand (golden generation anyone?). A final, a semi and the distinct possibility of significant progression this time round is a hell of an achievement. Through it all he conducts himself impeccably and with great dignity/statesmanship in increasingly fraught and difficult times. It is difficult to be a public figure in these evolving times when one word in the wrong context can result in airbrushing. He is an exceptional public figure. His Achilles heel is his tendency towards conservatism on the field and the suspicion that he has some favourites (Mount, Sterling etc). But there are signs in this tournament (9 goals so far for a kick off despite boring the pants of us against USA) that the gloves are coming off. England haven’t taken full advantage of a couple of outrageously lucky tournament draws but I do wonder if this might be their moment. Hard to see, despite the odd limitation, how England could do better than Southgate at the moment. Assuming that an Englishman is preferrred for the job, Howe isn’t going anywhere and Potter is in the process of being sussed. Who’s next in line…….? Be careful what you wish for folks.
Absolutely. Be careful what you wish for. Maybe just live in the moment and enjoy it.
I find the general stance of us England supporters is to just have a short fuse and always expect us to be the best. Just perfectionists.
Apart from 1994 and 2008! We are close to guaranteed qualification for a finals tournaments. We never have to worry about it.
It's not appreciated because we are so used to it. It's the routine.
We should be qualifying...but we are lucky to not be in the same boat as a Scotland or Wales, who always struggle for it.
The England players have a strong bond with each other. Let's keep it that way.
The issue these days is that people like to deal in black and white, especially on social media. Southgate is appalling one minute and then everyone who disagreed with a team selection etc is wrong the next game when we win, and the cycle goes on.
The truth as usual is probably somewhere in the middle - he's a decent defensive manager, who is a good guy and has done wonders for the morale, motivation and professionalism of the national side. He's also too scared of losing sometimes that he inhibits our attacking play, and he lacks a bit of ability to change a game when it's not going our way.
My friends keep clamouring for him to be let go, saying he's too negative given the attacking quality of the team, they were baying for his blood during the Nations League failure, and I can't understand that point of view. Yes the NL was a failure, but does anyone REALLY care about that as long as we perform in the big tournaments, as SB pointed out above, his tournament record is outstanding.
I get that my friends want to see a more attacking style but there is absolutely no guarantee they'd get results like Southgate has, even yesterday in the second half when Foden and Rashford switched wings and we saw immediate results they were complaining about Southgate, I had to point out that Southgate was the one who made the switch that got the result.
The issue these days is that people like to deal in black and white, especially on social media. Southgate is appalling one minute and then everyone who disagreed with a team selection etc is wrong the next game when we win, and the cycle goes on.
The truth as usual is probably somewhere in the middle - he's a decent defensive manager, who is a good guy and has done wonders for the morale, motivation and professionalism of the national side. He's also too scared of losing sometimes that he inhibits our attacking play, and he lacks a bit of ability to change a game when it's not going our way.
We also might not be able to do much better.
They can all be true.
See this is the bit I don’t get. How many teams have scored more goals than us in the last 3 tournaments? Finals and semi finals are almost always cagey affairs. When was the last time a team strolled through a tournament thrashing everyone? Even the great Spain team only won the final 1-0, in extra time.
Southgate has the timeless thick skin of being solely to blame for englands euro 96 failure.
A psychological unique sense of sport emotional trauma that not many will experience or understand.
Everyone needs to be knocked down in life. It's how you get back up.
Will never forget that penalty shootout win against Colombia - Especially when it panned to Southgate after Dier scored, his reaction looked like a man who was almost putting that penalty miss at '96 behind him
Ironic really, that penalty shootout in 96 was the first one we'd lost since winning one (as we of course beat Spain in the Quarter-Finals) - We then didnt win a penalty shootout until 2018, with Southgate technically engineering it.
I can remember us not making it to the World Cup in 1974 & 1978, just thought that was normal for England, so the first World Cup I can remember being excited about was 1982 in France, running home from school to watch us beating France 3-1 in our opening game, I think we scored after 27 seconds, Bryan Robson won a Rolex watch for the quickest goal of the tournament from memory.
My point for the history lesson , is I’ve been brought up on relative England failures, time and time again, somehow we always think we are better than what we actually are and have a divine right to win it.
My goals for this competition,
1) get out of the group- job done
2) Quarter finals - anything more is a bonus.
I hate the amount of criticism and stick Southgate gets, yes, maybe he should pick this player, or that player, yes maybe we should be better at taking penalties than we are.
But I can still remember growing up the amount of stick Graham Taylor & Bobby Robson (both no longer with us) got from the media (Robson ended up having heart surgery, and getting cancer, and thinking is it all really worth it, the anger, vitriol and abuse an England manager gets is ridiculous and just plain downright over the top.
Message to self, just try and enjoy the ride, we all breath the same air.
The issue these days is that people like to deal in black and white, especially on social media. Southgate is appalling one minute and then everyone who disagreed with a team selection etc is wrong the next game when we win, and the cycle goes on.
The truth as usual is probably somewhere in the middle - he's a decent defensive manager, who is a good guy and has done wonders for the morale, motivation and professionalism of the national side. He's also too scared of losing sometimes that he inhibits our attacking play, and he lacks a bit of ability to change a game when it's not going our way.
We also might not be able to do much better.
They can all be true.
See this is the bit I don’t get. How many teams have scored more goals than us in the last 3 tournaments? Finals and semi finals are almost always cagey affairs. When was the last time a team strolled through a tournament thrashing everyone? Even the great Spain team only won the final 1-0, in extra time.
I haven't checked it out but after Spain scored 7 against Costa Rica it was said that Spain only scored 8 in the year they won the WC ! If accurate they must've had a 0-0 in group game and knock out stage before going on to win with at least one Penalty shoot out victory ?
I will be disappointed if @Cafc43v3r doesn't know this off the top of his head ?
To be successful and by that I mean by winning something Southgate is going to have to take a major gamble along the way at some point. And until now, he's shown it really isn't something he likes doing. Hope he's learnt from that.
Italy, in 1982 peaked, at exactly the right time - they didn't even win a game in the first group stage and only scored 2 goals in those 3 matches too, which no winner of the WC will probably succeed in doing ever again. After that they won all their matches by 2-1, 3-2, 2-0 and 3-1. Hopefully, we won't go in the other direction and stop scoring!
To be successful and by that I mean by winning something Southgate is going to have to take a major gamble along the way at some point. And until now, he's shown it really isn't something he likes doing. Hope he's learnt from that.
Its about making the right gamble and at the right time.
Never shoot yourself in the foot if your gut instict tells you to stay cautious.
As I've mentioned before, you make one wrong move in international football and your tournament is over. I've seen Pep make decisions that have cost City 3 points but he gets it more right than wrong and that plays out over a season. In fact, i think his selection decision in the Champion League final cos them. Southgate doesn't have that luxury. He has do get it right 100% of the time and rely on the players performing to win a tournament. That is a LOT of pressure.
As I've mentioned before, you make one wrong move in international football and your tournament is over. I've seen Pep make decisions that have cost City 3 points but he gets it more right than wrong and that plays out over a season. In fact, i think his selection decision in the Champion League final cos them. Southgate doesn't have that luxury. He has do get it right 100% of the time and rely on the players performing to win a tournament. That is a LOT of pressure.
A good point - I think its important to recognise that Southgate's decisions so far has got us to a WC Semi and the Euro's final, so when people say he needs to change his methodology I can understand why he sticks to his guns as at the moment his method has provided tried and tested success. Its hard to argue with that.
I can see both sides of the argument. Of course the argument for him is that he has given us 2 of most successful ever tournaments.
However i can see the flip side of that where people argue that he is too negative. 1 goal up in both a world cup semi final and a Euro final and then decided to sit on the leads instead of killing the game off.
Some will say we had easy runs in both tournaments, others will argue you can only beat what is in front of you.
I don't think there is any right or wrong answer here, and there is certainly no guarantee that another more attacking manager would have got better results.
I can see both sides of the argument. Of course the argument for him is that he has given us 2 of most successful ever tournaments.
However i can see the flip side of that where people argue that he is too negative. 1 goal up in both a world cup semi final and a Euro final and then decided to sit on the leads instead of killing the game off.
Some will say we had easy runs in both tournaments, others will argue you can only beat what is in front of you.
I don't think there is any right or wrong answer here, and there is certainly no guarantee that another more attacking manager would have got better results.
This is the main thing for me. I dont think Southgate is without his faults, but he's built a fantastic mentality with the players, they like going to international duty, they respect him and most of the time they perform for him. He's blessed with the best combined talent we've produced, but i'd be worried how a more flair or outspoken coach would affect them. The big question is, who even is there?
I can see both sides of the argument. Of course the argument for him is that he has given us 2 of most successful ever tournaments.
However i can see the flip side of that where people argue that he is too negative. 1 goal up in both a world cup semi final and a Euro final and then decided to sit on the leads instead of killing the game off.
Some will say we had easy runs in both tournaments, others will argue you can only beat what is in front of you.
I don't think there is any right or wrong answer here, and there is certainly no guarantee that another more attacking manager would have got better results.
I can see the point of view that he's too negative definitely, I just don't believe that if he was traded for a more 'attacking' manager we would get any better results.
Also we've tried an attacking manager before (Keegan) and successful club managers (Sven/Capello) and none of them did anything compared to what Southgate has done.
The issue these days is that people like to deal in black and white, especially on social media. Southgate is appalling one minute and then everyone who disagreed with a team selection etc is wrong the next game when we win, and the cycle goes on.
The truth as usual is probably somewhere in the middle - he's a decent defensive manager, who is a good guy and has done wonders for the morale, motivation and professionalism of the national side. He's also too scared of losing sometimes that he inhibits our attacking play, and he lacks a bit of ability to change a game when it's not going our way.
We also might not be able to do much better.
They can all be true.
See this is the bit I don’t get. How many teams have scored more goals than us in the last 3 tournaments? Finals and semi finals are almost always cagey affairs. When was the last time a team strolled through a tournament thrashing everyone? Even the great Spain team only won the final 1-0, in extra time.
I haven't checked it out but after Spain scored 7 against Costa Rica it was said that Spain only scored 8 in the year they won the WC ! If accurate they must've had a 0-0 in group game and knock out stage before going on to win with at least one Penalty shoot out victory ?
I will be disappointed if @Cafc43v3r doesn't know this off the top of his head ?
Comments
Southgate is rumoured to be getting 5m basic + bonuses. Nice work for managing about 12 games a year.
very underated by alot i feel !
he deserves everything he has got and gets from here and has built a spirit and bond amongst the whole england group which i really think is special
and what with all the young quality we have in pretty much every position now will bring success for many more years
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59371397
He is trustworthy and he now knows the players on a personal level.
Everyone gets things wrong in any job they do.
It's about continuing to learn.
I'm sure he listens to those who advise him. Including our ex manager.
Absolutely. Be careful what you wish for. Maybe just live in the moment and enjoy it.
I find the general stance of us England supporters is to just have a short fuse and always expect us to be the best. Just perfectionists.
Apart from 1994 and 2008! We are close to guaranteed qualification for a finals tournaments. We never have to worry about it.
It's not appreciated because we are so used to it. It's the routine.
We should be qualifying...but we are lucky to not be in the same boat as a Scotland or Wales, who always struggle for it.
The England players have a strong bond with each other. Let's keep it that way.
The issue these days is that people like to deal in black and white, especially on social media. Southgate is appalling one minute and then everyone who disagreed with a team selection etc is wrong the next game when we win, and the cycle goes on.
The truth as usual is probably somewhere in the middle - he's a decent defensive manager, who is a good guy and has done wonders for the morale, motivation and professionalism of the national side. He's also too scared of losing sometimes that he inhibits our attacking play, and he lacks a bit of ability to change a game when it's not going our way.
We also might not be able to do much better.
They can all be true.
I get that my friends want to see a more attacking style but there is absolutely no guarantee they'd get results like Southgate has, even yesterday in the second half when Foden and Rashford switched wings and we saw immediate results they were complaining about Southgate, I had to point out that Southgate was the one who made the switch that got the result.
A psychological unique sense of sport emotional trauma that not many will experience or understand.
Everyone needs to be knocked down in life. It's how you get back up.
Ironic really, that penalty shootout in 96 was the first one we'd lost since winning one (as we of course beat Spain in the Quarter-Finals) - We then didnt win a penalty shootout until 2018, with Southgate technically engineering it.
My point for the history lesson , is I’ve been brought up on relative England failures, time and time again, somehow we always think we are better than what we actually are and have a divine right to win it.
My goals for this competition,
1) get out of the group- job done
2) Quarter finals - anything more is a bonus.
I hate the amount of criticism and stick Southgate gets, yes, maybe he should pick this player, or that player, yes maybe we should be better at taking penalties than we are.
But I can still remember growing up the amount of stick Graham Taylor & Bobby Robson (both no longer with us) got from the media (Robson ended up having heart surgery, and getting cancer, and thinking is it all really worth it, the anger, vitriol and abuse an England manager gets is ridiculous and just plain downright over the top.
Message to self, just try and enjoy the ride, we all breath the same air.
I haven't checked it out but after Spain scored 7 against Costa Rica it was said that Spain only scored 8 in the year they won the WC !
If accurate they must've had a 0-0 in group game and knock out stage before going on to win with at least one Penalty shoot out victory ?
I will be disappointed if @Cafc43v3r doesn't know this off the top of his head ?
And until now, he's shown it really isn't something he likes doing.
Hope he's learnt from that.
Its about making the right gamble and at the right time.
Never shoot yourself in the foot if your gut instict tells you to stay cautious.
However i can see the flip side of that where people argue that he is too negative. 1 goal up in both a world cup semi final and a Euro final and then decided to sit on the leads instead of killing the game off.
Some will say we had easy runs in both tournaments, others will argue you can only beat what is in front of you.
I don't think there is any right or wrong answer here, and there is certainly no guarantee that another more attacking manager would have got better results.
It was like a blind man holding a diamond.
It's nice to know them days appear to be gone and we can enjoy the repair and reshape of the damage caused.
In the current squad, there aren't any knobheads who may make front page news.
I can't see that anyway.
Sure, they are all over paid etc but that's pretty much been the case for the last 40 years.