Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.
The Case For Boycotting Or Not.
ShootersHillGuru
Posts: 50,627
Can I first say that so far this season since the Northampton game anyway I have been boycotting.
We have been told that now we are officially "at war" with the club. Things have changed and it would appear the ante has been well and truly upped by those running the club.
It would seem to me that we have reached an important crossroads. This next phase of protest could well be the most important part of the battle to retake The Valley.
I don't want to give Duchatelet a penny of my money. That has driven my boycott but at this point do I need to re evaluate ?
Those of us not attending are still desperate for the protests to have impact. Is now the time for us to bite the bullit and give more voice and numbers to the in stadium action. Can we afford to stand by and watch others whilst hoping for success ?
I want someone to convince me that my boycott is the wrong way of getting them out of our club.
Our protest is currently split. I can't help feeling that it would be stronger with one prong of attack.
Over to you.
COYR
We have been told that now we are officially "at war" with the club. Things have changed and it would appear the ante has been well and truly upped by those running the club.
It would seem to me that we have reached an important crossroads. This next phase of protest could well be the most important part of the battle to retake The Valley.
I don't want to give Duchatelet a penny of my money. That has driven my boycott but at this point do I need to re evaluate ?
Those of us not attending are still desperate for the protests to have impact. Is now the time for us to bite the bullit and give more voice and numbers to the in stadium action. Can we afford to stand by and watch others whilst hoping for success ?
I want someone to convince me that my boycott is the wrong way of getting them out of our club.
Our protest is currently split. I can't help feeling that it would be stronger with one prong of attack.
Over to you.
COYR
1
Comments
-
I don't think you'll ever get a boycott
My old man doesn't really care for the protests and although he's not happy with relegation, he's of the opinion that
A - we would go under if it weren't for RD's money
B - we could get sold to an even bigger bunch of twats
C - he just wants to watch the game and support the team
I'm not saying these just to play devil's advocate, and he and I share a different view and I have had countless debate with him about why I disagree on all of the above. I'm only pointing this out because I would imagine there are a fair few others like him and share the same views.
CARD could call for a boycott because they are respected and people listen to them, but for someone like my dad it wouldn't even register.
There's nothing wrong with calling for a boycott but I just feel that it if it didn't happen in its entirety, then it would be a neither here nor there sort of movement3 -
I don't think we'll ever get a total boycott. There will always be about 3-4,000 prepared to go. Next season that will probably be the attendances anyway. Unfortunately we know that's not enough to sustain a club like Charlton and getting new fans to come and watch is nigh on impossible for the club, a fact which I think they fail to comprehend. I think it's a bigger pain in the arse of Katrien and Tony big bollocks to have protesting fans in the stadium. In fact I think they need to be bigger, louder and more disruptive to the SMT. Something close to the Burnley game would give them nightmares.3
-
I guess the answer is in trying to understand what a boycott will achieve?
As @cabbles has pointed out, we will never get a total boycott, so that is out.
A large number of supporters are individually boycotting - is this hurting the club? Financially it must be, but Roland can swallow this loss and, to be honest, does not seem to care.
The more fans that boycott, the happier our SMT will be. It is only via protests at the ground that they feel uncomfortable and, perhaps more importantly, that the media pick up on the issues. This leads to public humiliation which, we know, will not make the SMT at all comfortable in protecting what is left in the integrity of their CV's.
The SMT want a sanitised stadium where we all cheer the premiership players of the future and feel good that we have been involved in their development. In other words, they do not want protests.
In my view, boycotting can only help achieve their aims because there would be no 'nasty' protestors around.
I do see the other side of the argument, but my approach is to attend and protest.7 -
Boycotting as a protest, does not work.
I understand that people dont want to give their hard earned to RD.
Look at the last months or two, no protests, so no coverage to the cause. In fact friends of mine thought we had resolved our differences?? Then the in ground protests started up, a couple of thousand Pigs on the pitch, the game is stopped and we get the publicity which has snowballed to Jim White from Talksport going to one of our away games, the CEO getting airtime and digging hole for herself, then Rick Everett putting it right t the next day.
So the evidence is there, go to the matches, protest, make your voice heard, boycotting achieves nothing except to save people money.19 -
You'll never get a total boycott, the Sue Perks loyalists will never stay away & who are we to ask/expect someone like Seb Lewis to break his run of games??
Plus the club will always announce a higher figure so any impact on paper will be lost IMO1 -
"Officially at war with the club"
What are you going on about ? How can we be "officially at war with the club" ?
A full scale boycott will never, ever happen btw.2 -
Not on the profit/loss account it won't!NorthStandUltra said:You'll never get a total boycott, the Sue Perks loyalists will never stay away & who are we to ask/expect someone like Seb Lewis to break his run of games??
Plus the club will always announce a higher figure so any impact on paper will be lost IMO
But I would tend to agree that a boycott will not help in of itself. Demonstrations in the ground, even if it is just constant barracking of the SMT will hurt far more and get greater puiblicity. Back this up with pre and post demonstrations outside The Valley and the effort may hasten the demise of RD et al.1 -
Because that is what Daisy said.se9addick said:"Officially at war with the club"
What are you going on about ? How can we be "officially at war with the club" ?
A full scale boycott will never, ever happen btw.3 -
I don't think a boycott would work, as some fans will always go, whoever is in charge.
I must admit that after the events of Saturday, I am close to stopping going. I just isn't fun anymore. No atmosphere; poor players; poor tactics. Without a sustained promotion push, true crowds this year will hover around the 7k mark, and next year they will drop further. Ticket price promotions aren't working, as those that bought the extra tickets for friends are no longer coming themselves. There is little hope left (unless RD sells).
So where do we go as a club from here?
A third or fourth tier club, playing in front of 5k each week, with no atmosphere? Kind of reminds me of Orient when Barry Hearn owned them, except the financial losses will be much larger. Sure, the upper west will be closed next year to cut costs (gets rid of the option of having liar banners draped over the directors box too!), and maybe the upper north too (though Crossbars would remain open) the following year. Player salaries will be lower, once those expensive misfits called Watt, Sarr, Texeira, Ceballos, Ba, Vetokele and Johnson are off the wage bill, but at least we will have recouped a few million from the sale of Lookman (with Konsa next to be sold...). That might even allow the books to almost balance in 2017?
But what to the future? There is none! No end game.
The Club will owe RD £60m and nobody is going to pay that to buy it. RD will have to take a huge loss if he does sell, and if he cannot find a buyer willing to fund that ever increasing loss, then he may just put us into admin and see the club fold. The sale of The Valley and the training ground will recoup some money, but not that much (maybe £15m?), and then he can disappear back to Belgium without a second look. He'll have lost over £50m by this experiment, yet he doesn't do failure?
Please tell me I have it all wrong?
4 -
How much of the poor attendance is a conscious protest, and how much is it "we're in the 3rd division and Slade is playing crap football"?
6 -
Sponsored links:
-
In a worse case scenario probably spot on however it's the eternal hope that keeps you going. Life goes on , lots of water to pass under the bridge just yet. We fight on and if all else fails there's always AFC Charlton.Pedro45 said:I don't think a boycott would work, as some fans will always go, whoever is in charge.
I must admit that after the events of Saturday, I am close to stopping going. I just isn't fun anymore. No atmosphere; poor players; poor tactics. Without a sustained promotion push, true crowds this year will hover around the 7k mark, and next year they will drop further. Ticket price promotions aren't working, as those that bought the extra tickets for friends are no longer coming themselves. There is little hope left (unless RD sells).
So where do we go as a club from here?
A third or fourth tier club, playing in front of 5k each week, with no atmosphere? Kind of reminds me of Orient when Barry Hearn owned them, except the financial losses will be much larger. Sure, the upper west will be closed next year to cut costs (gets rid of the option of having liar banners draped over the directors box too!), and maybe the upper north too (though Crossbars would remain open) the following year. Player salaries will be lower, once those expensive misfits called Watt, Sarr, Texeira, Ceballos, Ba, Vetokele and Johnson are off the wage bill, but at least we will have recouped a few million from the sale of Lookman (with Konsa next to be sold...). That might even allow the books to almost balance in 2017?
But what to the future? There is none! No end game.
The Club will owe RD £60m and nobody is going to pay that to buy it. RD will have to take a huge loss if he does sell, and if he cannot find a buyer willing to fund that ever increasing loss, then he may just put us into admin and see the club fold. The sale of The Valley and the training ground will recoup some money, but not that much (maybe £15m?), and then he can disappear back to Belgium without a second look. He'll have lost over £50m by this experiment, yet he doesn't do failure?
Please tell me I have it all wrong?0 -
Empty stadiums don't make news. Thousands of squeezy pigs thrown on the pitch do. Those pigs don't throw themselves. What we really need now is more people in the ground, keeping the protests going. Ticket money doesn't make any difference to Duchatalet, Meire admitted as much in Dublin. He doesn't seem to care whether we go to games or not. None of his clubs have crowds of any size, so he can do what he wants when only 3,000 people are upset.
If I went to work and had 20,000 people calling me 'useless' I'm not sure I'd put up with it very long. Daisy seems to have a thicker skin than me (or maybe she's just thicker), but Saturday should be her least favourite day of the week
10 -
Meier said there is a war between fans and club. Try to keep up.se9addick said:"Officially at war with the club"
What are you going on about ? How can we be "officially at war with the club" ?
A full scale boycott will never, ever happen btw.
The point of the OP is for someone who isn't boycotting or perhaps is boycotting to persuade me as a boycotter that I would better serve the aim of getting RD to do one by attending games.
At present our protests are split. Should we now under the changed circumstances we face completely unite to best advantage.
I realise a total boycott won't happen so convince me to get back to going to games if that's the best way of getting to the owner.
1 -
I didShootersHillGuru said:
Meier said there is a war between fans and club. Try to keep up.se9addick said:"Officially at war with the club"
What are you going on about ? How can we be "officially at war with the club" ?
A full scale boycott will never, ever happen btw.
The point of the OP is for someone who isn't boycotting or perhaps is boycotting to persuade me as a boycotter that I would better serve the aim of getting RD to do one by attending games.
At present our protests are split. Should we now under the changed circumstances we face completely unite to best advantage.
I realise a total boycott won't happen so convince me to get back to going to games if that's the best way of getting to the owner.
3 -
I haven't missed a home friendly, Chubby Checker or League game this season, although I'll probably swerve Sat's Cup tie. Some random thoughts ....
It's hard to take on a billionaire in a money fight
I don't want to miss the match where we absolutely slaughter the opponents
Going in the bad times makes the sweet times even sweeter, like BTTV after Selhurst and UP
I don't actively join in the protests but I'm proud to have been around on each day - every individual protest is another authentic building block in our club's unique history
Meeting up with our group pre-match is by far the highlight of the day - Roland doesn't get to steal that
We use Xbars for comfort and convenience - expenditure is minimal
Everyone should go to at least one of these current toxic games just to sample an atmosphere like no other
I need my Charlton fix - I have to go
I couldn't do without the wisdom of Lifers' analyses and comments, but it's also good to see things for yourself
This is my 63rd season - don't know how many more I'll get so I'm taking all my chances
I have diminishing interest in football at large, and could never switch to another club - CTID
We are winning this heinous civil war but there will be immense damage - I want to be a part of the rebuilding
I sponsor a player - have to keep an eye on him !
This is an intriguing story - don't want to miss a single episode
I often visit the Museum
I've met some great friends, and constantly meet new folks/Lifers - can't do that if I'm not there
You can't win a fight by walking away from it
An absent voice is one that cannot be heard
We are MANY - we are ONE - and we WILL win
22 -
But were not all one glass
Some fans are doing this some are doing that and others doing something else.0 -
Having had a lot to say about the current regime before the 2% uprising, in fact, and around the formation of CARD, I've withdrawn from commenting recently as I felt my comments would be more of the same. I think SHG asks a good question - is it time to reappraise the boycott? I liked the idea of "support the team, not the regime", but it overlooks an important thing.
For me, the passion has died. I'm not a fly by night supporter or "only there for the good times" fan, I was born in Charlton 63 years ago and lived in Charlton for 27 years - I've seen good times and not so good times - it's never stopped supporting Charlton. I now live an hour drive from The Valley, far less than many others on here, but, I hate to admit it, I can't be bothered. The passion has died. I got the goal alert that Charlton had gone 1-0 up and felt about as excited as if someone unexpectedly offers you a polo mint. The last two weeks, I've chosen to watch Maidstone v Lincoln (about 45 mins drive) and Whitehawk v Margate (also 45 mins drive) and thoroughly enjoyed both games - the positivity around both places was frankly refreshing. You can't control your emotions and, right now, the passion has gone for the first time since my Dad took me to The Valley for the first time when I was 5.
On Saturday evening, I was thinking that the only game I will see this season (assuming this lot don't go) will probably the day of the Charlton Upbeats Walk. I can take League One, I can take League Two or whatever, but I am afraid this lot (as I shall politely call them) have killed off something in me. For those who think I am defeatist, all I can say is that they don't know me well enough, but I doff my hat to those who are prepared to do what is needed to return this club to the way it was. I agree with SHG - reappraisal at this juncture is a good idea even though I can see that I am not helping much right now.8 -
We're all Addicks and we're all in the same boat, just rowing at different speeds !!clb74 said:But were not all one glass
Some fans are doing this some are doing that and others doing something else.3 -
So you believe everything she says ?ShootersHillGuru said:
Meier said there is a war between fans and club. Try to keep up.se9addick said:"Officially at war with the club"
What are you going on about ? How can we be "officially at war with the club" ?
A full scale boycott will never, ever happen btw.
The point of the OP is for someone who isn't boycotting or perhaps is boycotting to persuade me as a boycotter that I would better serve the aim of getting RD to do one by attending games.
At present our protests are split. Should we now under the changed circumstances we face completely unite to best advantage.
I realise a total boycott won't happen so convince me to get back to going to games if that's the best way of getting to the owner.
I don't really know why you would want me to convince you to go to matches, given that your boycott will have very little impact on whether RD stays or goes I would suggest that if you want to go and watch Charlton then you should go to games and if you don't then don't.
There is possibly even an argument that, given how deluded RD is, not going to games will increase the amount that he has to put in to the club to keep it going which appears to inform how much he wants to sell the club for so boycotting is making it less likely he'll find a buyer and will be with us longer.
0 -
the Boydoctt will not work, RD has shown he is prepared to take the losses of running the club and another one million onto he loss at worst will not break his determination to show you can run some sort of pan european football farm or what ever his vision is. I believe stubboness has set in with RD.0
-
Sponsored links:
-
reasons for me not going saturdays isnt solely roland its a mixture of having other stuff to do and a 60 + hour week leaves only limited time, i go to a lot of away games and the money not spent on home games can go towards away travel etc, admittedly up until last season i would do 12/14 home games usually Saturdays where i would pick and choose also used to take my grandad a fair bit, but he passed in march so no longer have to attend with him, will maybe get along to a couple this season but wont be gutted if i dont.0
-
you can sit next to me, and i'll have a big bag of maltesers.ShootersHillGuru said:
Meier said there is a war between fans and club. Try to keep up.se9addick said:"Officially at war with the club"
What are you going on about ? How can we be "officially at war with the club" ?
A full scale boycott will never, ever happen btw.
The point of the OP is for someone who isn't boycotting or perhaps is boycotting to persuade me as a boycotter that I would better serve the aim of getting RD to do one by attending games.
At present our protests are split. Should we now under the changed circumstances we face completely unite to best advantage.
I realise a total boycott won't happen so convince me to get back to going to games if that's the best way of getting to the owner.1 -
I won't be there on Saturday but that's because I don't feel as inclined/committed to go and watch us anymore really in pointless cup games, we'll never get another cup run like we had with Chris Powell.1
-
It wasn't. What she actually said was,Algarveaddick said:
Because that is what Daisy said.se9addick said:"Officially at war with the club"
What are you going on about ? How can we be "officially at war with the club" ?
A full scale boycott will never, ever happen btw.
...to meet with me, because this war - if we can refer to this as a war...
0 -
It is interesting that there are lots of people who stating very similar views, that boycotts won't work. However, there's very little evidence given to support this view. The two most common arguments seem to be along the lines that 1. We'll never get a 100% boycott and 2. That Duchatelet has the funds to ride out any boycott anyway. I think it's worth placing these two ideas under a bit deeper scrutiny.
We'll never get a 100% boycott. I'm pretty sure that most would agree with this statement - as I do myself. It is surely correct that there are a number of fans that will continue to go come what may. But does that really matter? At what point did we make the imaginative leap that boycotts have to be 100% in order to be successful? It's simply not true. There have been many successful boycotts, there have been very few 100% boycotts. Every empty seat at The Valley is a testimony to their incompetence.
Duchatelet can afford it. Again there's an element of truth to it, but the argument doesn't tell the whole story. Sure, he's a very rich man. I'm not sure exactly how liquid his assets are and I'm not convinced any of us do. Whilst on face value at least, it appears that he can afford to fund Charlton for a long time, there is a huge difference between having the financial wherewithal to do so and having desire to. I don't believe that someone who started an experiment to prove a point about his economic philosophy will be happy to keep taking a financial hit indefinitely. He wanted to prove to the world that he is some sort of far sighted genius. The longer this goes on, the more people will see him as a myopic idiot without a clue. Boycotting may only eat in to 1.5% of his assets, but those figures in his financial statements will embarrass him as will the empty seats. They also give the lie to Daisy's claims of any sort of competence.
There seems to be a lot of negativity about our chances of winning at the moment. I think lots of people have taken Daisy's 'not selling' comments last week very seriously and take that to mean that it will never happen. I'm not so sure. Both the owner and his chosen hireling have demonstrated themselves to hold very strained relationships with the truth. And even if it is true as of today, who is to say that it won't change very quickly when the old man get's bored of funding a fiasco. In fact who's to say his opinion isn't to sell already and that he just hasn't told her that. we know from past experience, that he's quite able to take decisions over her head and execute them pretty swiftly when he wants to.
I don't think it has to be an either/or situation. My personal opinion is that there is a place for both boycotting and demonstrating. Demonstrations to shock the regime and make the headlines. Boycotts to underpin them. We don't need 100% of us to be behind a boycott, just as we don't need 100% of us to support every protest. Over time they will get the message.
17 -
There seems to be a lot of negativity about our chances of winning at the moment.
I think it's more that with the damage that has been done to the club already (specifically in terms of lost fans - many of whom will, probably, never, ever, return) even if RD and KM lose I can't see how what we will be left with will ever feel like a win.
Even if RD agrees to sell the club for £1 it could take another £50m to get us back to being a decent Championship club with even a small chance of making it into the Premier League.
I would love to be proved wrong but I can't see anyone with c. £100m wanting to invest it in our club with the match day interest that we currently have. I've had a season ticket since 1989 and, in the end I did buy one for this season, but I chose not to go on Saturday for no reason at all. I just sat on the sofa watching Sky Sports News all afternoon. Why would anyone want to drop millions and millions of pounds into a club when fans (or customers) that have been regulars for so long would rather do, literally, nothing than go to a game they have already paid to watch?1 -
We need to carry on as we are. It's frustrating and is taking time, but we will get RD to sell.
A total boycott will never happen & could backfire, so forget it.
By the same token, protests at every game, become too tiresome and would also die out.
So we just need to continue as we are.
If you want to limit money to RD only come to the protest games and buy the cheapest seat available.
I know it appears that it may not be working, but it clearly is if RD is "hawking" the club around the city.
Keep the faith, I'm confident he'll be gone within 18 months and hopefully sooner.11 -
wish i had your faith, I am bored of hating the club I love if that makes sense, bored off the infighting, bored off how soulless we have become.Covered End said:We need to carry on as we are. It's frustrating and is taking time, but we will get RD to sell.
A total boycott will never happen & could backfire, so forget it.
By the same token, protests at every game, becomes too tiresome and would also die out.
So we just need to continue as we are.
If you want to limit money to RD only come to the protest games and buy the cheapest seat available.
I know it appears that it may not be working, but it clearly is if RD is "hawking" the club around the city.
Keep the faith, I'm confident he'll be gone within 18 months and hopefully sooner.3 -
It's a double edged sword.
I get the not going/not funding RD but ultimately, in my view, that will make no difference unless you can get 98% of people not to attend. If gates are 5k a game or less we'll simply get a team of that value (SCMP and all that) and less likely RD sells.
I actually believe 15-20k gates with 98% protesting will drive them out far far quicker.
The extra gate receipts will be mostly taken up with the costs to 'Marshall' a protesting crowd of that size anyway so won't be directly going to RD as such.1 -
Sorry if I've missed this but what is the evidence that RD is "hawking the club around the city" ?0
