If he was French or Spanish then he would be getting lauded universally on social media and sites like this.
I do honestly think it is just a weird part of the English football fan psyche to slag off those who are seen as big names, simply because they are English. We'll see exactly the same when Rooney retires on an even larger scale. People will focus on their limitations (of which there are very few) rather than focus on their success and achievements.
The bloke scored 212 goals from Midfield and played at the top level for over 15 years FFS.
If he was French or Spanish then he would be getting lauded universally on social media and sites like this.
I do honestly think it is just a weird part of the English football fan psyche to slag off those who are seen as big names, simply because they are English. We'll see exactly the same when Rooney retires on an even larger scale. People will focus on their limitations (of which there are very few) rather than focus on their success and achievements.
The bloke scored 212 goals from Midfield and played at the top level for over 15 years FFS.
I think the problem with the English fan is that there's too much focus on individual stats and achievements, which are placed over team success.
Gerrard is equivalent to David Albelda, you won't hear many Spanish people trying to claim he's world-class. Good player sure but lets not pretend he'd have walked into a World XI or even made the bench.
the golden generation personified - ridiculously talented, but bottled it when his moment came (with the exception of the last minute fa cup final equaliser, that was special).
Fantastic footballer. It makes me laugh how people love to knock sportsmen in this country. In his prime, he single handedly carried a poor Liverpool team for many years. Probably the greatest player to never win a league title
How can anyone say he's overrated when he has won all the individual awards I listed, with alot of those awards voted by from fellow pro's who play against him, not to mention the domestic and european cups he won with his teams.
Individual awards won't replace the lack of Premier League medals or top 4 finishes with his team.
Also won't replace all of his poor performances for England.
He's basically the definition of a highlight reel player. Some great goals and performances, but always interesting how they were usually from 1 or 2 nil down...
Top 4 finishes? Didn't realise that was one winning something Arsene. As Valley Gary pointed out, a lot of the time he played along side average premier league players, that's why he never won less premier league medals than Tom Cleverly, the individual medals came because his fellow pro's who play against him week in week out acknowledged that and voted for him in there team of the year. Stat's and awards don't prove everything but arguing against Gerrards states and awards makes it very difficult to describe him as anything but World Class and one of the greats of the game.
If he was French or Spanish then he would be getting lauded universally on social media and sites like this.
I do honestly think it is just a weird part of the English football fan psyche to slag off those who are seen as big names, simply because they are English. We'll see exactly the same when Rooney retires on an even larger scale. People will focus on their limitations (of which there are very few) rather than focus on their success and achievements.
The bloke scored 212 goals from Midfield and played at the top level for over 15 years FFS.
I think the problem with the English fan is that there's too much focus on individual stats and achievements, which are placed over team success.
Gerrard is equivalent to David Albelda, you won't hear many Spanish people trying to claim he's world-class. Good player sure but lets not pretend he'd have walked into a World XI or even made the bench.
Albelda was a totally different player, you can't compare the 2.
If he was French or Spanish then he would be getting lauded universally on social media and sites like this.
I do honestly think it is just a weird part of the English football fan psyche to slag off those who are seen as big names, simply because they are English. We'll see exactly the same when Rooney retires on an even larger scale. People will focus on their limitations (of which there are very few) rather than focus on their success and achievements.
The bloke scored 212 goals from Midfield and played at the top level for over 15 years FFS.
I think the problem with the English fan is that there's too much focus on individual stats and achievements, which are placed over team success.
Gerrard is equivalent to David Albelda, you won't hear many Spanish people trying to claim he's world-class. Good player sure but lets not pretend he'd have walked into a World XI or even made the bench.
Albelda was a totally different player, you can't compare the 2.
In terms of achievements/loyalty.
Obviously they're different players but I'd have them at equivalent levels of talent.
If he was French or Spanish then he would be getting lauded universally on social media and sites like this.
I do honestly think it is just a weird part of the English football fan psyche to slag off those who are seen as big names, simply because they are English. We'll see exactly the same when Rooney retires on an even larger scale. People will focus on their limitations (of which there are very few) rather than focus on their success and achievements.
The bloke scored 212 goals from Midfield and played at the top level for over 15 years FFS.
I think the problem with the English fan is that there's too much focus on individual stats and achievements, which are placed over team success.
Gerrard is equivalent to David Albelda, you won't hear many Spanish people trying to claim he's world-class. Good player sure but lets not pretend he'd have walked into a World XI or even made the bench.
Albelda was a totally different player, you can't compare the 2.
In terms of achievements/loyalty.
Obviously they're different players but I'd have them at equivalent levels of talent.
Albelda was a top player though, no doubting that.
If he was French or Spanish then he would be getting lauded universally on social media and sites like this.
I do honestly think it is just a weird part of the English football fan psyche to slag off those who are seen as big names, simply because they are English. We'll see exactly the same when Rooney retires on an even larger scale. People will focus on their limitations (of which there are very few) rather than focus on their success and achievements.
The bloke scored 212 goals from Midfield and played at the top level for over 15 years FFS.
I think the problem with the English fan is that there's too much focus on individual stats and achievements, which are placed over team success.
Gerrard is equivalent to David Albelda, you won't hear many Spanish people trying to claim he's world-class. Good player sure but lets not pretend he'd have walked into a World XI or even made the bench.
Albelda was a totally different player, you can't compare the 2.
If he was French or Spanish then he would be getting lauded universally on social media and sites like this.
I do honestly think it is just a weird part of the English football fan psyche to slag off those who are seen as big names, simply because they are English. We'll see exactly the same when Rooney retires on an even larger scale. People will focus on their limitations (of which there are very few) rather than focus on their success and achievements.
The bloke scored 212 goals from Midfield and played at the top level for over 15 years FFS.
I think the problem with the English fan is that there's too much focus on individual stats and achievements, which are placed over team success.
Gerrard is equivalent to David Albelda, you won't hear many Spanish people trying to claim he's world-class. Good player sure but lets not pretend he'd have walked into a World XI or even made the bench.
Albelda was a totally different player, you can't compare the 2.
If he was French or Spanish then he would be getting lauded universally on social media and sites like this.
I do honestly think it is just a weird part of the English football fan psyche to slag off those who are seen as big names, simply because they are English. We'll see exactly the same when Rooney retires on an even larger scale. People will focus on their limitations (of which there are very few) rather than focus on their success and achievements.
The bloke scored 212 goals from Midfield and played at the top level for over 15 years FFS.
I think the problem with the English fan is that there's too much focus on individual stats and achievements, which are placed over team success.
Even if you are right.....how can stats like 212 goals from midfield, mostly in the Premier League, even be argued with?
Team success is important, but I don't recall Southampton winning any major honours in the 1990s. Does that mean Matt Le Tissier was massively overrated too? Or Alan Shearer at Newcastle?
He is probably in the top 0.0001% of professional players of all time. Why on earth do people feel the need to highlight his limitations?
If he was French or Spanish then he would be getting lauded universally on social media and sites like this.
I do honestly think it is just a weird part of the English football fan psyche to slag off those who are seen as big names, simply because they are English. We'll see exactly the same when Rooney retires on an even larger scale. People will focus on their limitations (of which there are very few) rather than focus on their success and achievements.
The bloke scored 212 goals from Midfield and played at the top level for over 15 years FFS.
I think the problem with the English fan is that there's too much focus on individual stats and achievements, which are placed over team success.
Even if you are right.....how can stats like 212 goals from midfield, mostly in the Premier League, even be argued with?
Team success is important, but I don't recall Southampton winning any major honours in the 1990s. Does that mean Matt Le Tissier was massively overrated too? Or Alan Shearer at Newcastle?
He is probably in the top 0.0001% of professional players of all time. Why on earth do people feel the need to highlight his limitations?
212 goals is an outstanding return.
Speaking of Alan Shearer, bloke I used to work with once said that Shearer couldn't be considered a great goalscorer because "there were a lot of penalties, amongst his goals"
Sadly both Gerrard and Lampard's reputation will always suffer because of international failings, which was the consequence of numerous managers not finding a system to accommodate both or having the guts to pick one over the other.
I doubt Gerrard will be placed in the same one club legend leagues as Giggs, Scholes, Tony Adams etc. but a Liverpool legend he certainly will be.
If he was French or Spanish then he would be getting lauded universally on social media and sites like this.
I do honestly think it is just a weird part of the English football fan psyche to slag off those who are seen as big names, simply because they are English. We'll see exactly the same when Rooney retires on an even larger scale. People will focus on their limitations (of which there are very few) rather than focus on their success and achievements.
The bloke scored 212 goals from Midfield and played at the top level for over 15 years FFS.
I think the problem with the English fan is that there's too much focus on individual stats and achievements, which are placed over team success.
Even if you are right.....how can stats like 212 goals from midfield, mostly in the Premier League, even be argued with?
Team success is important, but I don't recall Southampton winning any major honours in the 1990s. Does that mean Matt Le Tissier was massively overrated too? Or Alan Shearer at Newcastle?
He is probably in the top 0.0001% of professional players of all time. Why on earth do people feel the need to highlight his limitations?
212 goals is an outstanding return.
Speaking of Alan Shearer, bloke I used to work with once said that Shearer couldn't be considered a great goalscorer because "there were a lot of penalties, amongst his goals"
If a team are stupid enough to give away a penalty to the opposition with such a prolific scorer from the spot then thats their fault
If he was French or Spanish then he would be getting lauded universally on social media and sites like this.
I do honestly think it is just a weird part of the English football fan psyche to slag off those who are seen as big names, simply because they are English. We'll see exactly the same when Rooney retires on an even larger scale. People will focus on their limitations (of which there are very few) rather than focus on their success and achievements.
The bloke scored 212 goals from Midfield and played at the top level for over 15 years FFS.
But if he was French of Spanish he would have been a different type of midfielder. I think part of the reason people view him as they do is because he is a typical English jack-of-all-trades box-to-box midfielder l. But over the last 15 years the need for that type of player at the highest level has slowly diminished.
Yes he was very talented and one of the best at what he does but was the wrong type of player for the modern era.
We are very much in the era of specialised midfielders. He had one season where he played number 10 for Liverpool areas was exceptional and towards the end of his career he tried (badly) to operate as a holding midfielder. But other than that he never really operated in one of the modern midfield roles.
I think Liverpool fans see him differently from England fans because him and lamp arduous together in that midfield was never going to work.
They needed to be deployed in a 433 with Hargreaves/Parker holding and 2 of Gerrard/Lampard/Scholes either side. But then we didn't have the attacking players to fit into that formation.
Basically successive England managers failed to find a system that worked with our very good midfielders and we ended up losing the genuine world class talent of Scholes early as as result. I think this has a bearing on the way Gerrard is viewed.
If he was French or Spanish then he would be getting lauded universally on social media and sites like this.
I do honestly think it is just a weird part of the English football fan psyche to slag off those who are seen as big names, simply because they are English. We'll see exactly the same when Rooney retires on an even larger scale. People will focus on their limitations (of which there are very few) rather than focus on their success and achievements.
The bloke scored 212 goals from Midfield and played at the top level for over 15 years FFS.
But if he was French of Spanish he would have been a different type of midfielder. I think part of the reason people view him as they do is because he is a typical English jack-of-all-trades box-to-box midfielder l. But over the last 15 years the need for that type of player at the highest level has slowly diminished.
Yes he was very talented and one of the best at what he does but was the wrong type of player for the modern era.
We are very much in the era of specialised midfielders. He had one season where he played number 10 for Liverpool areas was exceptional and towards the end of his career he tried (badly) to operate as a holding midfielder. But other than that he never really operated in one of the modern midfield roles.
I think Liverpool fans see him differently from England fans because him and lamp arduous together in that midfield was never going to work.
They needed to be deployed in a 433 with Hargreaves/Parker holding and 2 of Gerrard/Lampard/Scholes either side. But then we didn't have the attacking players to fit into that formation.
Basically successive England managers failed to find a system that worked with our very good midfielders and we ended up losing the genuine world class talent of Scholes early as as result. I think this has a bearing on the way Gerrard is viewed.
Not sure I agree with that.
Hernanes, Gabi, Ramires, Vidal, Marchisio, Yaya, Schweinstager, Pogba, Matuidi - all box to box mid-fielders currently playing at the highest level.
If he was French or Spanish then he would be getting lauded universally on social media and sites like this.
I do honestly think it is just a weird part of the English football fan psyche to slag off those who are seen as big names, simply because they are English. We'll see exactly the same when Rooney retires on an even larger scale. People will focus on their limitations (of which there are very few) rather than focus on their success and achievements.
The bloke scored 212 goals from Midfield and played at the top level for over 15 years FFS.
But if he was French of Spanish he would have been a different type of midfielder. I think part of the reason people view him as they do is because he is a typical English jack-of-all-trades box-to-box midfielder l. But over the last 15 years the need for that type of player at the highest level has slowly diminished.
Yes he was very talented and one of the best at what he does but was the wrong type of player for the modern era.
We are very much in the era of specialised midfielders. He had one season where he played number 10 for Liverpool areas was exceptional and towards the end of his career he tried (badly) to operate as a holding midfielder. But other than that he never really operated in one of the modern midfield roles.
I think Liverpool fans see him differently from England fans because him and lamp arduous together in that midfield was never going to work.
They needed to be deployed in a 433 with Hargreaves/Parker holding and 2 of Gerrard/Lampard/Scholes either side. But then we didn't have the attacking players to fit into that formation.
Basically successive England managers failed to find a system that worked with our very good midfielders and we ended up losing the genuine world class talent of Scholes early as as result. I think this has a bearing on the way Gerrard is viewed.
Not sure I agree with that.
Hernanes, Gabi, Ramires, Vidal, Marchisio, Yaya, Schweinstager, Pogba, Matuidi - all box to box mid-fielders currently playing at the highest level.
They all have an element of both (as any top player should) but I'm not sure any are really box to box in the old sense..
If he was French or Spanish then he would be getting lauded universally on social media and sites like this.
I do honestly think it is just a weird part of the English football fan psyche to slag off those who are seen as big names, simply because they are English. We'll see exactly the same when Rooney retires on an even larger scale. People will focus on their limitations (of which there are very few) rather than focus on their success and achievements.
The bloke scored 212 goals from Midfield and played at the top level for over 15 years FFS.
But if he was French of Spanish he would have been a different type of midfielder. I think part of the reason people view him as they do is because he is a typical English jack-of-all-trades box-to-box midfielder l. But over the last 15 years the need for that type of player at the highest level has slowly diminished.
Yes he was very talented and one of the best at what he does but was the wrong type of player for the modern era.
We are very much in the era of specialised midfielders. He had one season where he played number 10 for Liverpool areas was exceptional and towards the end of his career he tried (badly) to operate as a holding midfielder. But other than that he never really operated in one of the modern midfield roles.
I think Liverpool fans see him differently from England fans because him and lamp arduous together in that midfield was never going to work.
They needed to be deployed in a 433 with Hargreaves/Parker holding and 2 of Gerrard/Lampard/Scholes either side. But then we didn't have the attacking players to fit into that formation.
Basically successive England managers failed to find a system that worked with our very good midfielders and we ended up losing the genuine world class talent of Scholes early as as result. I think this has a bearing on the way Gerrard is viewed.
Not sure I agree with that.
Hernanes, Gabi, Ramires, Vidal, Marchisio, Yaya, Schweinstager, Pogba, Matuidi - all box to box mid-fielders currently playing at the highest level.
They all have an element of both (as any top player should) but I'm not sure any are really box to box in the old sense..
And they all fit into a modern formation a 4231 or 433.
If he was French or Spanish then he would be getting lauded universally on social media and sites like this.
I do honestly think it is just a weird part of the English football fan psyche to slag off those who are seen as big names, simply because they are English. We'll see exactly the same when Rooney retires on an even larger scale. People will focus on their limitations (of which there are very few) rather than focus on their success and achievements.
The bloke scored 212 goals from Midfield and played at the top level for over 15 years FFS.
But if he was French of Spanish he would have been a different type of midfielder. I think part of the reason people view him as they do is because he is a typical English jack-of-all-trades box-to-box midfielder l. But over the last 15 years the need for that type of player at the highest level has slowly diminished.
Yes he was very talented and one of the best at what he does but was the wrong type of player for the modern era.
We are very much in the era of specialised midfielders. He had one season where he played number 10 for Liverpool areas was exceptional and towards the end of his career he tried (badly) to operate as a holding midfielder. But other than that he never really operated in one of the modern midfield roles.
I think Liverpool fans see him differently from England fans because him and lamp arduous together in that midfield was never going to work.
They needed to be deployed in a 433 with Hargreaves/Parker holding and 2 of Gerrard/Lampard/Scholes either side. But then we didn't have the attacking players to fit into that formation.
Basically successive England managers failed to find a system that worked with our very good midfielders and we ended up losing the genuine world class talent of Scholes early as as result. I think this has a bearing on the way Gerrard is viewed.
Not sure I agree with that.
Hernanes, Gabi, Ramires, Vidal, Marchisio, Yaya, Schweinstager, Pogba, Matuidi - all box to box mid-fielders currently playing at the highest level.
I'm struggling to articulate my argument here so forgive me if this makes no sense--I think the way I would differentiate between most of those midfielders and Gerrard is that those midfielders are all capable in both boxes, but don't necessarily always feel the need to be in both boxes. That is a massive simplification, but Gerrard was more Bryan Robson-esque. Something I've always been a bit surprised by is how few people compared Gerrard and Rooney (and it's part of a pet theory of mine that at time England struggled to accommodate Gerrard and Rooney centrally, as much as Gerrard and Lampard). Both require a free role essentially, in an era where the game is increasingly becoming one of specialization.
I think it goes back to the fact that I think Gerrard's fatal flaw, what kept him from being an excellent player, is the mental side of the game.
If he was French or Spanish then he would be getting lauded universally on social media and sites like this.
I do honestly think it is just a weird part of the English football fan psyche to slag off those who are seen as big names, simply because they are English. We'll see exactly the same when Rooney retires on an even larger scale. People will focus on their limitations (of which there are very few) rather than focus on their success and achievements.
The bloke scored 212 goals from Midfield and played at the top level for over 15 years FFS.
But if he was French of Spanish he would have been a different type of midfielder. I think part of the reason people view him as they do is because he is a typical English jack-of-all-trades box-to-box midfielder l. But over the last 15 years the need for that type of player at the highest level has slowly diminished.
Yes he was very talented and one of the best at what he does but was the wrong type of player for the modern era.
We are very much in the era of specialised midfielders. He had one season where he played number 10 for Liverpool areas was exceptional and towards the end of his career he tried (badly) to operate as a holding midfielder. But other than that he never really operated in one of the modern midfield roles.
I think Liverpool fans see him differently from England fans because him and lamp arduous together in that midfield was never going to work.
They needed to be deployed in a 433 with Hargreaves/Parker holding and 2 of Gerrard/Lampard/Scholes either side. But then we didn't have the attacking players to fit into that formation.
Basically successive England managers failed to find a system that worked with our very good midfielders and we ended up losing the genuine world class talent of Scholes early as as result. I think this has a bearing on the way Gerrard is viewed.
Not sure I agree with that.
Hernanes, Gabi, Ramires, Vidal, Marchisio, Yaya, Schweinstager, Pogba, Matuidi - all box to box mid-fielders currently playing at the highest level.
I'm struggling to articulate my argument here so forgive me if this makes no sense--I think the way I would differentiate between most of those midfielders and Gerrard is that those midfielders are all capable in both boxes, but don't necessarily always feel the need to be in both boxes. That is a massive simplification, but Gerrard was more Bryan Robson-esque. Something I've always been a bit surprised by is how few people compared Gerrard and Rooney (and it's part of a pet theory of mine that at time England struggled to accommodate Gerrard and Rooney centrally, as much as Gerrard and Lampard). Both require a free role essentially, in an era where the game is increasingly becoming one of specialization.
I think it goes back to the fact that I think Gerrard's fatal flaw, what kept him from being an excellent player, is the mental side of the game.
Comments
I do honestly think it is just a weird part of the English football fan psyche to slag off those who are seen as big names, simply because they are English. We'll see exactly the same when Rooney retires on an even larger scale. People will focus on their limitations (of which there are very few) rather than focus on their success and achievements.
The bloke scored 212 goals from Midfield and played at the top level for over 15 years FFS.
Internationally, 21 goals in 114, bordering on 1 in 5.
Don't know the assists stats but I bet they stack up.
Would love to have played in midfield with a player like him.
Gerrard is equivalent to David Albelda, you won't hear many Spanish people trying to claim he's world-class. Good player sure but lets not pretend he'd have walked into a World XI or even made the bench.
Obviously they're different players but I'd have them at equivalent levels of talent.
I think he's just always looked 36!
Team success is important, but I don't recall Southampton winning any major honours in the 1990s. Does that mean Matt Le Tissier was massively overrated too? Or Alan Shearer at Newcastle?
He is probably in the top 0.0001% of professional players of all time. Why on earth do people feel the need to highlight his limitations?
Speaking of Alan Shearer, bloke I used to work with once said that Shearer couldn't be considered a great goalscorer because "there were a lot of penalties, amongst his goals"
I doubt Gerrard will be placed in the same one club legend leagues as Giggs, Scholes, Tony Adams etc. but a Liverpool legend he certainly will be.
Yes he was very talented and one of the best at what he does but was the wrong type of player for the modern era.
We are very much in the era of specialised midfielders. He had one season where he played number 10 for Liverpool areas was exceptional and towards the end of his career he tried (badly) to operate as a holding midfielder. But other than that he never really operated in one of the modern midfield roles.
I think Liverpool fans see him differently from England fans because him and lamp arduous together in that midfield was never going to work.
They needed to be deployed in a 433 with Hargreaves/Parker holding and 2 of Gerrard/Lampard/Scholes either side. But then we didn't have the attacking players to fit into that formation.
Basically successive England managers failed to find a system that worked with our very good midfielders and we ended up losing the genuine world class talent of Scholes early as as result. I think this has a bearing on the way Gerrard is viewed.
Hernanes, Gabi, Ramires, Vidal, Marchisio, Yaya, Schweinstager, Pogba, Matuidi - all box to box mid-fielders currently playing at the highest level.
I think it goes back to the fact that I think Gerrard's fatal flaw, what kept him from being an excellent player, is the mental side of the game.
How can they even look to compare him with the likes of Pirlo? Some sort of sick joke?
He was a good EPL player who was loyal to one club ... and that's about it...