Ebbsfleet Station

Off_it

As this is a Charlton board I thought I would ask this train related question as someone is bound to know.

Why are there effectively two stations at Ebbsfleet, or at least two different sets of platforms that you can't interconnect between without coming out of the barriers and coming back in again.

And Northfleet station is within eyesight but there's no way of getting to it (or that line) without catching a train back to Gravesend.

For a new station it all seems badly planned but I'm guessing there must be a reason? Boring question, I know, but I've spent over an hour here today changing trains and going backwards and forwards so would love to know why!

So, over to the choo choo brigade - do your stuff!

Rothko

Part one is cost and keeping the services separated. So late running north Kent line trains can't delay a Eurostar, and the location of the coast bound platforms make it expensive to connect easily to the NK line.

As for Northfleet station, on going issues, mainly around cost, and that Northfleet is one planning area, and Ebbsfleet another.

Off_it

Cheers Rothko - never had you down as a train spotter. Police spotter, Yes. Train spotter, no.
;-)

I've just spent the last half an hour going backwards and forwards only to pass within a few hundred metres of the place I was standing before, all for no real reason. Still, it's works time I'm wasting!

kentaddick

STAY AT EBBSFLEET TURNCOAT. Blaady varney's a liar, you deserve him. #duchataletin

Off_it

kentaddick said:

STAY AT EBBSFLEET TURNCOAT. Blaady varney's a liar, you deserve him. #duchataletin

How did you know who I went to see?

PragueAddick

Rothko said:

Part one is cost and keeping the services separated. So late running north Kent line trains can't delay a Eurostar, and the location of the coast bound platforms make it expensive to connect easily to the NK line.

As for Northfleet station, on going issues, mainly around cost, and that Northfleet is one planning area, and Ebbsfleet another.

The Germans would laugh at that load of bollocks ( not the writer, but the pathetic excuses he relays.)

And why does Crossrail end at Abbey Wood and not Ebbsfleet? The French would laugh at that.

killerandflash

PragueAddick said:

Rothko said:

Part one is cost and keeping the services separated. So late running north Kent line trains can't delay a Eurostar, and the location of the coast bound platforms make it expensive to connect easily to the NK line.

As for Northfleet station, on going issues, mainly around cost, and that Northfleet is one planning area, and Ebbsfleet another.

The Germans would laugh at that load of bollocks ( not the writer, but the pathetic excuses he relays.)

And why does Crossrail end at Abbey Wood and not Ebbsfleet? The French would laugh at that.

The intention is to keep Crossrail (powered by overhead power) separate from the SE 3rd rail network, which as we all know can be fairly ropey at times

I imagine Ebsfleet has to be split into two because one half serves the international trains, with passport controls etc

PragueAddick

killerandflash said:

PragueAddick said:

Rothko said:

Part one is cost and keeping the services separated. So late running north Kent line trains can't delay a Eurostar, and the location of the coast bound platforms make it expensive to connect easily to the NK line.

As for Northfleet station, on going issues, mainly around cost, and that Northfleet is one planning area, and Ebbsfleet another.

The Germans would laugh at that load of bollocks ( not the writer, but the pathetic excuses he relays.)

And why does Crossrail end at Abbey Wood and not Ebbsfleet? The French would laugh at that.

The intention is to keep Crossrail (powered by overhead power) separate from the SE 3rd rail network, which as we all know can be fairly ropey at times

I imagine Ebsfleet has to be split into two because one half serves the international trains, with passport controls etc

That isn't the case. Some Javelins run into an adjacent platform to Eurostars.

The problem is that when you break up a national network into lots of little privately owned empires, nobody has any incentive to integrate the thing. The British approach to privatising the railways was suicidally stupid, and Ebbsfleet is one example of what you get.

Mind you that does not explain the Olympic Park fiasco. Who else trekked 15-20 minutes from West Ham or Stratford in 2012, only to find that a huge railway line runs directly under the middle of the Park and no ------ thought it might be smart to build a station there?

Turns out that of course the original plan did have that, as well as a stadium to be operated as well as built by McAlpine, thus zero cost to the taxpayer.

We invented the railways and football. Take a trip across Germany, take in a Bundesliga match, and wonder how it is that they do railways and football the way we used to.

sam3110

PragueAddick said:

killerandflash said:

PragueAddick said:

Rothko said:

Part one is cost and keeping the services separated. So late running north Kent line trains can't delay a Eurostar, and the location of the coast bound platforms make it expensive to connect easily to the NK line.

As for Northfleet station, on going issues, mainly around cost, and that Northfleet is one planning area, and Ebbsfleet another.

The Germans would laugh at that load of bollocks ( not the writer, but the pathetic excuses he relays.)

And why does Crossrail end at Abbey Wood and not Ebbsfleet? The French would laugh at that.

The intention is to keep Crossrail (powered by overhead power) separate from the SE 3rd rail network, which as we all know can be fairly ropey at times

I imagine Ebsfleet has to be split into two because one half serves the international trains, with passport controls etc

We invented the railways and football. Take a trip across Germany, take in a Bundesliga match, and wonder how it is that they do railways and football the way we used to.

Went to a Bayer Leverkusen game in March this year, from Koln, both the train there and back had extra carriages laid on because of the game and arrived at the station 10 minutes early to pick everyone up. They also ran more trains than normal before and after the game.

Plus we had beers whilst watching, they had an excellent safe standing area where the Ultras lined up and the food was about half the price of what you'd get in Blighty.

Made me want to stay for longer to be honest, especially when we found out the season ticket prices!

addick1965

PragueAddick said:

Rothko said:

Part one is cost and keeping the services separated. So late running north Kent line trains can't delay a Eurostar, and the location of the coast bound platforms make it expensive to connect easily to the NK line.

As for Northfleet station, on going issues, mainly around cost, and that Northfleet is one planning area, and Ebbsfleet another.

The Germans would laugh at that load of bollocks ( not the writer, but the pathetic excuses he relays.)

And why does Crossrail end at Abbey Wood and not Ebbsfleet? The French would laugh at that.

I never though of that,but yeah, it's bloody crazy!

Off_it

Read all about it......... "Germans in efficiency shocker!"

Off_it

addick1965 said:

PragueAddick said:

Rothko said:

Part one is cost and keeping the services separated. So late running north Kent line trains can't delay a Eurostar, and the location of the coast bound platforms make it expensive to connect easily to the NK line.

As for Northfleet station, on going issues, mainly around cost, and that Northfleet is one planning area, and Ebbsfleet another.

The Germans would laugh at that load of bollocks ( not the writer, but the pathetic excuses he relays.)

And why does Crossrail end at Abbey Wood and not Ebbsfleet? The French would laugh at that.

I never though of that,but yeah, it's bloody crazy!

Not to worry. I'm sure they have thought of that and will lay on an inter-connecting bus service to Gravesend from where you will be able to pick up a train back to Ebbsfleet.

Mind you, they'll have to work out who is responsible for shutting the doors on the bus first.

letthegoodtimesroll

PragueAddick said:

Rothko said:

Part one is cost and keeping the services separated. So late running north Kent line trains can't delay a Eurostar, and the location of the coast bound platforms make it expensive to connect easily to the NK line.

As for Northfleet station, on going issues, mainly around cost, and that Northfleet is one planning area, and Ebbsfleet another.

The Germans would laugh at that load of bollocks ( not the writer, but the pathetic excuses he relays.)

And why does Crossrail end at Abbey Wood and not Ebbsfleet? The French would laugh at that.

The Germans ??? Ask them about the building of the airport at Berlin;

The French ??? Tell them you admire how they've managed to retain the French character of the shit looking station at Gard du Nord and its surrounds and its such a shame that the British chose to regenerate St Pancras and its surrounds and lose its run down character.

Off_it

letthegoodtimesroll said:

PragueAddick said:

Rothko said:

Part one is cost and keeping the services separated. So late running north Kent line trains can't delay a Eurostar, and the location of the coast bound platforms make it expensive to connect easily to the NK line.

As for Northfleet station, on going issues, mainly around cost, and that Northfleet is one planning area, and Ebbsfleet another.

The Germans would laugh at that load of bollocks ( not the writer, but the pathetic excuses he relays.)

And why does Crossrail end at Abbey Wood and not Ebbsfleet? The French would laugh at that.

The Germans ??? Ask them about the building of the airport at Berlin;

The French ??? Tell them you admire how they've managed to retain the French character of the shit looking station at Gard du Nord and its surrounds and its such a shame that the British chose to regenerate St Pancras and its surrounds and lose its run down character.

That's an improvement on recent efforts. Well played. 5/10

man_at_milletts

Off_it said:

As this is a Charlton board I thought I would ask this train related question as someone is bound to know.

Why are there effectively two stations at Ebbsfleet, or at least two different sets of platforms that you can't interconnect between without coming out of the barriers and coming back in again.

And Northfleet station is within eyesight but there's no way of getting to it (or that line) without catching a train back to Gravesend.

For a new station it all seems badly planned but I'm guessing there must be a reason? Boring question, I know, but I've spent over an hour here today changing trains and going backwards and forwards so would love to know why!

So, over to the choo choo brigade - do your stuff!

I used to have to travel to Ebbsfleet quite a lot from New Eltham.

I would go to Northfleet and walk across the car park to get to Ebbsfleet station, (about 12-15 minutes) which saved me going down to Gravesend and back again. (The premium on the fares starts at Gravesend if you use the HS line).

What the others said about the planning is spot on.

PragueAddick

letthegoodtimesroll said:

PragueAddick said:

Rothko said:

Part one is cost and keeping the services separated. So late running north Kent line trains can't delay a Eurostar, and the location of the coast bound platforms make it expensive to connect easily to the NK line.

As for Northfleet station, on going issues, mainly around cost, and that Northfleet is one planning area, and Ebbsfleet another.

The Germans would laugh at that load of bollocks ( not the writer, but the pathetic excuses he relays.)

And why does Crossrail end at Abbey Wood and not Ebbsfleet? The French would laugh at that.

The Germans ??? Ask them about the building of the airport at Berlin;

The French ??? Tell them you admire how they've managed to retain the French character of the shit looking station at Gard du Nord and its surrounds and its such a shame that the British chose to regenerate St Pancras and its surrounds and lose its run down character.

Oh sure, I have great fun taking the piss out of Berlin, because its an exception. They tend to fire back asking whether Heathrow has stocked up with brooms to clear this winter's snow.

Gare du Nord is inexplicable. Fortunately you can avoid it, depending on where you are going on to. I'm taking the Disneyland Eurostar and then the RER to Gare du Lyon. The RER is basically CrossRail but the first one was built 40 years ago and there are I think four of them running from the outskirts right across Paris to the other side.

Really. Abbey Wood. Can anybody tell me why? Nobody in my family seems to know.

i_b_b_o_r_g

PragueAddick said:

Rothko said:

Part one is cost and keeping the services separated. So late running north Kent line trains can't delay a Eurostar, and the location of the coast bound platforms make it expensive to connect easily to the NK line.

As for Northfleet station, on going issues, mainly around cost, and that Northfleet is one planning area, and Ebbsfleet another.

The Germans would laugh at that load of bollocks ( not the writer, but the pathetic excuses he relays.)

And why does Crossrail end at Abbey Wood and not Ebbsfleet? The French would laugh at that.

I just called the girls in the office and they are pissin emselves

Hastingsaddick

sam3110 said:

PragueAddick said:

killerandflash said:

PragueAddick said:

Rothko said:

Part one is cost and keeping the services separated. So late running north Kent line trains can't delay a Eurostar, and the location of the coast bound platforms make it expensive to connect easily to the NK line.

As for Northfleet station, on going issues, mainly around cost, and that Northfleet is one planning area, and Ebbsfleet another.

The Germans would laugh at that load of bollocks ( not the writer, but the pathetic excuses he relays.)

And why does Crossrail end at Abbey Wood and not Ebbsfleet? The French would laugh at that.

The intention is to keep Crossrail (powered by overhead power) separate from the SE 3rd rail network, which as we all know can be fairly ropey at times

I imagine Ebsfleet has to be split into two because one half serves the international trains, with passport controls etc

We invented the railways and football. Take a trip across Germany, take in a Bundesliga match, and wonder how it is that they do railways and football the way we used to.

Went to a Bayer Leverkusen game in March this year, from Koln, both the train there and back had extra carriages laid on because of the game and arrived at the station 10 minutes early to pick everyone up. They also ran more trains than normal before and after the game.

Plus we had beers whilst watching, they had an excellent safe standing area where the Ultras lined up and the food was about half the price of what you'd get in Blighty.

Made me want to stay for longer to be honest, especially when we found out the season ticket prices!

Remember Bolton away (FACQF)....trains were great that day.

Hex

PragueAddick said:

killerandflash said:

PragueAddick said:

Rothko said:

Part one is cost and keeping the services separated. So late running north Kent line trains can't delay a Eurostar, and the location of the coast bound platforms make it expensive to connect easily to the NK line.

As for Northfleet station, on going issues, mainly around cost, and that Northfleet is one planning area, and Ebbsfleet another.

The Germans would laugh at that load of bollocks ( not the writer, but the pathetic excuses he relays.)

And why does Crossrail end at Abbey Wood and not Ebbsfleet? The French would laugh at that.

The intention is to keep Crossrail (powered by overhead power) separate from the SE 3rd rail network, which as we all know can be fairly ropey at times

I imagine Ebsfleet has to be split into two because one half serves the international trains, with passport controls etc

That isn't the case. Some Javelins run into an adjacent platform to Eurostars.

The problem is that when you break up a national network into lots of little privately owned empires, nobody has any incentive to integrate the thing. The British approach to privatising the railways was suicidally stupid, and Ebbsfleet is one example of what you get.

Mind you that does not explain the Olympic Park fiasco. Who else trekked 15-20 minutes from West Ham or Stratford in 2012, only to find that a huge railway line runs directly under the middle of the Park and no ------ thought it might be smart to build a station there?

Turns out that of course the original plan did have that, as well as a stadium to be operated as well as built by McAlpine, thus zero cost to the taxpayer.

We invented the railways and football. Take a trip across Germany, take in a Bundesliga match, and wonder how it is that they do railways and football the way we used to.

I watched a programme a few weeks ago which, apart from talking about the London Bridge to Greenwich track being the world's first commuter line, went on to describe how various lines in Kent came into being. Basically, the network is made up of lots of little privately owned empires. Hence why a number of towns have 2 non-connected stations.

PragueAddick

i_b_b_o_r_g said:

PragueAddick said:

Rothko said:

Part one is cost and keeping the services separated. So late running north Kent line trains can't delay a Eurostar, and the location of the coast bound platforms make it expensive to connect easily to the NK line.

As for Northfleet station, on going issues, mainly around cost, and that Northfleet is one planning area, and Ebbsfleet another.

The Germans would laugh at that load of bollocks ( not the writer, but the pathetic excuses he relays.)

And why does Crossrail end at Abbey Wood and not Ebbsfleet? The French would laugh at that.

I just called the girls in the office and they are pissin emselves

Yes but they are pissin emsleves at the thought of you being thrown out in 2019

clive

PragueAddick said:

Rothko said:

Part one is cost and keeping the services separated. So late running north Kent line trains can't delay a Eurostar, and the location of the coast bound platforms make it expensive to connect easily to the NK line.

As for Northfleet station, on going issues, mainly around cost, and that Northfleet is one planning area, and Ebbsfleet another.

The Germans would laugh at that load of bollocks ( not the writer, but the pathetic excuses he relays.)

And why does Crossrail end at Abbey Wood and not Ebbsfleet? The French would laugh at that.

As somebody who lives near Abbey Wood & Woolwich Arsenal stations Crossrail will be a great improvement to local transport in an area with a rapidly growing population.
If the line went as far as Ebbsfleet the trains would be probably be full by the time they arrived at Abbey Wood.Also Ebbsfleet already has high speed services into Stratford & St Pancras.
Crossrail will also be controlled by TFL which should be a lot better than Southeastern.

ForeverAddickted

clive said:

PragueAddick said:

Rothko said:

Part one is cost and keeping the services separated. So late running north Kent line trains can't delay a Eurostar, and the location of the coast bound platforms make it expensive to connect easily to the NK line.

As for Northfleet station, on going issues, mainly around cost, and that Northfleet is one planning area, and Ebbsfleet another.

The Germans would laugh at that load of bollocks ( not the writer, but the pathetic excuses he relays.)

And why does Crossrail end at Abbey Wood and not Ebbsfleet? The French would laugh at that.

As somebody who lives near Abbey Wood & Woolwich Arsenal stations Crossrail will be a great improvement to local transport in an area with a rapidly growing population.
If the line went as far as Ebbsfleet the trains would be probably be full by the time they arrived at Abbey Wood.Also Ebbsfleet already has high speed services into Stratford & St Pancras.
Crossrail will also be controlled by TFL which should be a lot better than Southeastern.

Its an age long debate (ie. Would we rather trains were run by TFL or SouthEastern)

But to be fair to the latter, despite being rubbish I've never known them to Strike

iaitch

But if they did strike would you notice the difference?

BDL

The Liz line is due to be extended to Gravesend in a few years anyway.

Ebbsfleet station was also designed with the future Garden City in mind also.

Fumbluff

What's a Liz Line?

letthegoodtimesroll

Fumbluff said:

What's a Liz Line?

'We have had an anus horribilus'. I think it might have been said after having a dodgy ruby one night.

ForeverAddickted

Fumbluff said:

What's a Liz Line?

Its the real name of Crossrail... Its being called the Elizabeth Line

Hertsseasider

On a similar note, what about the specially built new station at Coventry's ground where fans are told NOT to use the train .... https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/aug/25/coventry-city-ricoh-arena-train-station-open-football-fans-wasps

PragueAddick

BDL said:

The Liz line is due to be extended to Gravesend in a few years anyway.

Ebbsfleet station was also designed with the future Garden City in mind also.

A few years eh? You know when they started the planning of The Crossrail we have now ? ( well we still don't)

1974...

Robbo on the wing

clive said:

PragueAddick said:

Rothko said:

Part one is cost and keeping the services separated. So late running north Kent line trains can't delay a Eurostar, and the location of the coast bound platforms make it expensive to connect easily to the NK line.

As for Northfleet station, on going issues, mainly around cost, and that Northfleet is one planning area, and Ebbsfleet another.

The Germans would laugh at that load of bollocks ( not the writer, but the pathetic excuses he relays.)

And why does Crossrail end at Abbey Wood and not Ebbsfleet? The French would laugh at that.

As somebody who lives near Abbey Wood & Woolwich Arsenal stations

Clive, a pi$$ hole I know, but please don't be embarrassed to say you live in Plumstead

letthegoodtimesroll

Robbo on the wing said:

clive said:

PragueAddick said:

Rothko said:

Part one is cost and keeping the services separated. So late running north Kent line trains can't delay a Eurostar, and the location of the coast bound platforms make it expensive to connect easily to the NK line.

As for Northfleet station, on going issues, mainly around cost, and that Northfleet is one planning area, and Ebbsfleet another.

The Germans would laugh at that load of bollocks ( not the writer, but the pathetic excuses he relays.)

And why does Crossrail end at Abbey Wood and not Ebbsfleet? The French would laugh at that.

As somebody who lives near Abbey Wood & Woolwich Arsenal stations

Clive, a pi$$ hole I know, but please don't be embarrassed to say you live in Plumstead

Actually, as someone that lived in the area (well, Blackheath but obviously got out and about a lot over the years) I'm shocked at how everywhere in southeast London seems to have degenerated in recent years compared to the rest of London that just seems to be going more and more upmarket. Is it the shit transport system ?