There's a huge amount of media and public pressure to be seen to be taking quick and effective action. Instead of being able to do their jobs properly the police also have to operate under the scrutiny of the press whose primary commitment is to making the tragic sensational in order to sell papers. That's how the police can arrest the wrong person.
But I do wonder what precautions they took. Intelligence reports said Christmas markets were a target and in the U.K. Barriers were put up I believe to stop this.
Using a lorry is an easy way of getting through the barriers...
A security expert said the barriers put up in the UK were concrete barriers, to prevent any vehicle passing.
These were put up after European countries expected attacks leading up to Xmas. Germany's security measures are way behind ours apparently (as not had the threats to deal with).
I was at the O2 twice at the start of December and they had full on airport security type measures to enter.
I thought at the time there must be a heightened level of security due to threats.
This will be a permanent feature now, of the run up to Christmas, where there are likely to be crowds.
The Christmas Markets in Berlin are pretty much in every available empty space at this time of the year, those wooden shacks are everywhere and always busy - can't see how they could have prevented a determined effort.
Lots of friends and colleagues in the city - thankful all are ok and RIP to those who have died.
The Christmas Markets in Berlin are pretty much in every available empty space at this time of the year, those wooden shacks are everywhere and always busy - can't see how they could have prevented a determined effort.
Lots of friends and colleagues in the city - thankful all are ok and RIP to those who have died.
100% agree with this. The Christmas markets in the UK do not compare in scale to even relatively small town German versions, and, unlike the UK, in Germany the markets are spread through town/city centres; it is far far easier to provide security measures for the sort of locations used across the UK.
However, even where concrete bollards (or the once-ubiquitous concrete flower beds of my youth) are provided to protect certain areas of a town or city, there is no way to prevent the sort of attack seen in Berlin and, previously, Nice. We cannot fortify our public spaces.
If someone wishes to use any vehicle as a weapon of mass murder, all they have to do is find groups of people, the venue is immaterial, other than providing the immediate opportunity.
Take a look at streets around any football ground on a match day, how easily could fans be protected from someone using a HGV to murder and maim?
I've been thinking this morning: I could be wrong but I can only think of one attack by Islamist terrorists in Europe where the attackers made an attempt to escape rather than make martyrs of themselves and/or broadcast their politics. ISIS claimed responsibility but didn't name so it's not likely they planned it.
I still think it's most likely to be Islamist terrorists but Germany has a long history of far-right terrorism.
Very sad for everyone affected and hope the German police can find those responsible as soon as possible.
Just like to point out that the bloke was released because of insufficient evidence, not because he proved his innocence. *EDIT* definitely didn't do it
Just like to point out that the bloke was released because of insufficient evidence, not because he proved his innocence.
Just like to point out there's no need for anyone to "prove" their innocence.
Okay, but you know what I mean
Not really.
One man was arrested, but the police don't have the evidence to back the assertion it was him, despite a potential mountain of forensic evidence.
Are you suggesting it *was* him? And that the police have issued alerts and warnings about ano armed terrorist on the loose, unnecessarily?
Yeah, my personal view is that it probably was him, but the police never had enough evidence to hold him. Like I said, it's a shame the culprit weren't killed in the attack and we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Just like to point out that the bloke was released because of insufficient evidence, not because he proved his innocence.
Just like to point out there's no need for anyone to "prove" their innocence.
Okay, but you know what I mean
Not really.
One man was arrested, but the police don't have the evidence to back the assertion it was him, despite a potential mountain of forensic evidence.
Are you suggesting it *was* him? And that the police have issued alerts and warnings about ano armed terrorist on the loose, unnecessarily?
Yeah, my personal view is that it probably was him, but the police never had enough evidence to hold him. Like I said, it's a shame the culprit weren't killed in the attack and we wouldn't be having this conversation.
So you think it was him but the police just asked him, he denied it and they said off you toddle then? There's no way on earth they would let a suspect for this go so soon if there was a shred of doubt.
Didn't the press quote some security source as saying 'we've got the wrong man'.....
They would have CCTV footage and forensic evidence so pretty sure if this was the guy, or there was any suspicion that this was the guy he would have remained in custody.
Germany has similar laws to here (though probably not quite as crazy police-state-ish*) in that they can hold suspected terrorists without charge for a certain period. The fact they've released him pretty much immediately means they are all but certain he isn't the guy. But i_b_b_o_r_g thinks it is him, from a 1000 miles away with no access to witnesses, evidence, the crime scene or the suspect, so they should probably hold him for a bit longer.
Do you realise how crazy that sounds? What are you basing your thoughts on that the local police aren't seeing?
*Over the last few years the amount of time the police can hold a suspected terrorists without charging them of anything has steadily risen, can't remember if it's 30 or 45 days currently, but certainly long enough to completely ruin somebodies life without ever having to charge them of any crime, without ever having judicial oversight.
The whole suspect thing is a bit of a head-scratcher.
The Guardian are reporting that the the attacker was pursued by a member of the public who saw him leave the cab of the vehicle. However during the chase he lost sight of the attacker temporarily, and at this point he accidentally began following someone who looked very similar. Perhaps given the dark conditions and the overall chaos (plus adrenaline) that's understandable, but the bloke who was arrested later admitted to being at the scene of the crime but fleeing as he didn't want to be considered a suspect.
German Special Forces then raided the refugee centre near Tempelhof, so quite close to the scene of the attack and where the individual was registered, retrieving a laptop and a mobile phone. However by the time they did this they couldn't find any residue or blood on his clothing (as the Polish HGV driver was shot and stabbed during the initial vehicle theft.), his blood type didn't match that found in the cab, and presumably there was nothing on the property seized from the refugee centre either.
I mean, the absence of evidence suggests he's innocent - and you can understand the German police releasing him. It' sounds pretty unlikely that the guy who chased him apparently saw the attacker leave the cab, then after temporarily losing him, accidentally managed to pursue someone else who was at the scene who matched that description. Alas, unlikely isn't impossible I guess.
Comments
He was seized after leaving the lorry and fleeing on foot for more than a mile (2km) towards the Tiergarten, a large public park.
A witness who followed him called the police, who quickly detained the suspect near the Victory Column monument.
Reuters: Germany chief federal prosecutor's office says the suspect detained in the Berlin Christmas market attack has been released
Wish they didn't release any info until they charged someone.
Released due to no DNA in the truck of him.
These were put up after European countries expected attacks leading up to Xmas. Germany's security measures are way behind ours apparently (as not had the threats to deal with).
I was at the O2 twice at the start of December and they had full on airport security type measures to enter.
I thought at the time there must be a heightened level of security due to threats.
This will be a permanent feature now, of the run up to Christmas, where there are likely to be crowds.
New Years Eve in London anyone ? Not for me.
Lots of friends and colleagues in the city - thankful all are ok and RIP to those who have died.
However, even where concrete bollards (or the once-ubiquitous concrete flower beds of my youth) are provided to protect certain areas of a town or city, there is no way to prevent the sort of attack seen in Berlin and, previously, Nice. We cannot fortify our public spaces.
If someone wishes to use any vehicle as a weapon of mass murder, all they have to do is find groups of people, the venue is immaterial, other than providing the immediate opportunity.
Take a look at streets around any football ground on a match day, how easily could fans be protected from someone using a HGV to murder and maim?
I still think it's most likely to be Islamist terrorists but Germany has a long history of far-right terrorism.
Very sad for everyone affected and hope the German police can find those responsible as soon as possible.
proved his innocence.*EDIT* definitely didn't do itOne man was arrested, but the police don't have the evidence to back the assertion it was him, despite a potential mountain of forensic evidence.
Are you suggesting it *was* him? And that the police have issued alerts and warnings about ano armed terrorist on the loose, unnecessarily?
They would have CCTV footage and forensic evidence so pretty sure if this was the guy, or there was any suspicion that this was the guy he would have remained in custody.
Do you realise how crazy that sounds? What are you basing your thoughts on that the local police aren't seeing?
*Over the last few years the amount of time the police can hold a suspected terrorists without charging them of anything has steadily risen, can't remember if it's 30 or 45 days currently, but certainly long enough to completely ruin somebodies life without ever having to charge them of any crime, without ever having judicial oversight.
The Guardian are reporting that the the attacker was pursued by a member of the public who saw him leave the cab of the vehicle. However during the chase he lost sight of the attacker temporarily, and at this point he accidentally began following someone who looked very similar. Perhaps given the dark conditions and the overall chaos (plus adrenaline) that's understandable, but the bloke who was arrested later admitted to being at the scene of the crime but fleeing as he didn't want to be considered a suspect.
German Special Forces then raided the refugee centre near Tempelhof, so quite close to the scene of the attack and where the individual was registered, retrieving a laptop and a mobile phone. However by the time they did this they couldn't find any residue or blood on his clothing (as the Polish HGV driver was shot and stabbed during the initial vehicle theft.), his blood type didn't match that found in the cab, and presumably there was nothing on the property seized from the refugee centre either.
I mean, the absence of evidence suggests he's innocent - and you can understand the German police releasing him. It' sounds pretty unlikely that the guy who chased him apparently saw the attacker leave the cab, then after temporarily losing him, accidentally managed to pursue someone else who was at the scene who matched that description. Alas, unlikely isn't impossible I guess.