Don't seem to remember Curbs and Gritt having too much coaching experience!They didn't do too bad.Everyone has start at some point
As I remember it both had been coaching the reserves and first team under Lawrence for a while but you are right they had relatively little experience.
But then I also remember we didn't have a pot to piss in rather than a multi-millionaire owner.
I don't know if Bowyer is any good or will become good but he is a strange choice when supposedly we have such a generous owner.
Just trying to forget for one moment the wealth of RD.We are in Lg 1 and many on here say they want there Charlton back.Well JJ and Bowyer are pretty much Charlton - so I would have thought they tick that Box!
JJ yes, Boywer play 50 games, very good games mind, 20 years ago. Not really Charlton thru and thru.
Personally I think the whole "proper Charlton" thing is over rated. Rather have a good coach than a bad or inexperienced one who happened to play for us and that includes JJ.
All other things being equal then knowing the club is useful and certainly JJ does. Not sure LB does.
Don't seem to remember Curbs and Gritt having too much coaching experience!They didn't do too bad.Everyone has start at some point
As I remember it both had been coaching the reserves and first team under Lawrence for a while but you are right they had relatively little experience.
But then I also remember we didn't have a pot to piss in rather than a multi-millionaire owner.
I don't know if Bowyer is any good or will become good but he is a strange choice when supposedly we have such a generous owner.
Just trying to forget for one moment the wealth of RD.We are in Lg 1 and many on here say they want there Charlton back.Well JJ and Bowyer are pretty much Charlton - so I would have thought they tick that Box!
JJ yes, Boywer play 50 games, very good games mind, 20 years ago. Not really Charlton thru and thru.
Personally I think the whole "proper Charlton" thing is over rated. Rather have a good coach than a bad or inexperienced one who happened to play for us and that includes JJ.
All other things being equal then knowing the club is useful and certainly JJ does. Not sure LB does.
But we shall see.
I agree with this, but if a coach or manager has some "Charlton pedigree", he'll be afforded more slack by he fans when things don't go to plan. Which is, unfortunately, almost always the case.
Given two equal candidates, I'd always pick one that was a bit "proper Charlton" over someone who wasn't.
So, I agree with you that a good coach is better than a bad coach who happened to play for Charlton. But I'd always prefer someone with a bit of Charlton in his background.
Don't seem to remember Curbs and Gritt having too much coaching experience!They didn't do too bad.Everyone has start at some point
As I remember it both had been coaching the reserves and first team under Lawrence for a while but you are right they had relatively little experience.
But then I also remember we didn't have a pot to piss in rather than a multi-millionaire owner.
I don't know if Bowyer is any good or will become good but he is a strange choice when supposedly we have such a generous owner.
Just trying to forget for one moment the wealth of RD.We are in Lg 1 and many on here say they want there Charlton back.Well JJ and Bowyer are pretty much Charlton - so I would have thought they tick that Box!
JJ yes, Boywer play 50 games, very good games mind, 20 years ago. Not really Charlton thru and thru.
Personally I think the whole "proper Charlton" thing is over rated. Rather have a good coach than a bad or inexperienced one who happened to play for us and that includes JJ.
All other things being equal then knowing the club is useful and certainly JJ does. Not sure LB does.
But we shall see.
Take your point about having a good coach than a bad or inexperienced one.However - If KR is staying and he is trying to rebuild the club with people who know about CAFC then I think we should give them both a chance.I like to think that JJ and Bowyer could be a good mix.
Don't seem to remember Curbs and Gritt having too much coaching experience!They didn't do too bad.Everyone has start at some point
Don't seem to remember Alan Curbishley being dropped from the England U-18 squad and suspended for failing a drugs test; leaving Charlton after fewer than sixty games, whilst still a teenager, the first time another club waved a fat signing fee in his face; being convicted of affray and fined £4,500 for smashing up a McDonald's and racially abusing staff; being charged with affray for an incident for which he had to pay £170,000 in an out-of-court settlement; being fined four weeks' wages by his club; being turned down for a £9m transfer to Liverpool because he didn't have the hunger for it; being fined £30,000 for fighting a team mate and being red carded during a game, being charged by the police and admitting using threatening behaviour costing another £1,600; verbally abusing a West Brom supporter and being forced to apologise; getting a three match ban for stamping, off the ball; or holding the record for the most yellow cards in the Premier League.
Curbishley and Gritt had been player-coaches for Charlton. So they had current experience of playing in the division in which they were coaching. Has Lee Bowyer got experience playing for Charlton in tier three? Or for anyone else?
Curbishley played 91 games for Charlton over a nine-year period and transitioned from being a Charlton player to player-coach to joint manager to manager.
Bowyer played just over half that number, more than twenty years ago.
You want to compare Bowyer with Curbishley? Do me a favour.
Lee Bowyer was a very good prospect for Charlton a couple of decades ago. He became a horrible, nasty, spiteful, violent, thug, convicted of violent crimes and guilty of some of the most abhorrent acts wherever he played across England. Is he the right person to be "cooaching" young Charlton players about how to develop their careers? He's not fit to tie Alan Curbishley's bootlaces, let alone be compared to him.
Don't seem to remember Curbs and Gritt having too much coaching experience!They didn't do too bad.Everyone has start at some point
Don't seem to remember Alan Curbishley being dropped from the England U-18 squad and suspended for failing a drugs test; leaving Charlton after fewer than sixty games, whilst still a teenager, the first time another club waved a fat signing fee in his face; being convicted of affray and fined £4,500 for smashing up a McDonald's and racially abusing staff; being charged with affray for an incident for which he had to pay £170,000 in an out-of-court settlement; being fined four weeks' wages by his club; being turned down for a £9m transfer to Liverpool because he didn't have the hunger for it; being fined £30,000 for fighting a team mate and being red carded during a game, being charged by the police and admitting using threatening behaviour costing another £1,600; verbally abusing a West Brom supporter and being forced to apologise; getting a three match ban for stamping, off the ball; or holding the record for the most yellow cards in the Premier League.
Curbishley and Gritt had been player-coaches for Charlton. So they had current experience of playing in the division in which they were coaching. Has Lee Bowyer got experience playing for Charlton in tier three? Or for anyone else?
Curbishley played 91 games for Charlton over a nine-year period and transitioned from being a Charlton player to player-coach to joint manager to manager.
Bowyer played just over half that number, more than twenty years ago.
You want to compare Bowyer with Curbishley? Do me a favour.
Lee Bowyer was a very good prospect for Charlton a couple of decades ago. He became a horrible, nasty, spiteful, violent, thug, convicted of violent crimes and guilty of some of the most abhorrent acts wherever he played across England. Is he the right person to be "coaching" young Charlton players about how to develop their careers? He's not fit to tie Alan Curbishley's bootlaces, let alone be compared to him.
Don't seem to remember Curbs and Gritt having too much coaching experience!They didn't do too bad.Everyone has start at some point
As I remember it both had been coaching the reserves and first team under Lawrence for a while but you are right they had relatively little experience.
But then I also remember we didn't have a pot to piss in rather than a multi-millionaire owner.
I don't know if Bowyer is any good or will become good but he is a strange choice when supposedly we have such a generous owner.
Just trying to forget for one moment the wealth of RD.We are in Lg 1 and many on here say they want there Charlton back.Well JJ and Bowyer are pretty much Charlton - so I would have thought they tick that Box!
JJ yes, Boywer play 50 games, very good games mind, 20 years ago. Not really Charlton thru and thru.
Personally I think the whole "proper Charlton" thing is over rated. Rather have a good coach than a bad or inexperienced one who happened to play for us and that includes JJ.
All other things being equal then knowing the club is useful and certainly JJ does. Not sure LB does.
But we shall see.
Take your point about having a good coach than a bad or inexperienced one.However - If KR is staying and he is trying to rebuild the club with people who know about CAFC then I think we should give them both a chance.I like to think that JJ and Bowyer could be a good mix.
I hope so too and I certainly not saying I wouldn't give them a chance. I don't think anyone is saying that actually, rather they are saying that Bowyer lacks experience as a coach which is true.
I'd much prefer to see a more experienced coach in the mix as well.
As we are often told our owner is willing to fund our losses and the debt is unimportant unless the club is sold and as the club is not for sale that doesn't apply.
So the owner can afford more than just JJ and LB if he wants success.
Otherwise he'll be repeating his previous mistakes, the one he's meant to have learnt from, of leaving us under resourced and inexperienced in key areas going into yet another season.
That's not Bowyer's fault. He's a young, inexperienced coach trying to make a career and so he's taken this opportunity with both hands as anyone would.
If he turns out to be a good coach we all win so can only wish him the best of luck.
Don't seem to remember Curbs and Gritt having too much coaching experience!They didn't do too bad.Everyone has start at some point
Don't seem to remember Alan Curbishley being dropped from the England U-18 squad and suspended for failing a drugs test; leaving Charlton after fewer than sixty games, whilst still a teenager, the first time another club waved a fat signing fee in his face; being convicted of affray and fined £4,500 for smashing up a McDonald's and racially abusing staff; being charged with affray for an incident for which he had to pay £170,000 in an out-of-court settlement; being fined four weeks' wages by his club; being turned down for a £9m transfer to Liverpool because he didn't have the hunger for it; being fined £30,000 for fighting a team mate and being red carded during a game, being charged by the police and admitting using threatening behaviour costing another £1,600; verbally abusing a West Brom supporter and being forced to apologise; getting a three match ban for stamping, off the ball; or holding the record for the most yellow cards in the Premier League.
Curbishley and Gritt had been player-coaches for Charlton. So they had current experience of playing in the division in which they were coaching. Has Lee Bowyer got experience playing for Charlton in tier three? Or for anyone else?
Curbishley played 91 games for Charlton over a nine-year period and transitioned from being a Charlton player to player-coach to joint manager to manager.
Bowyer played just over half that number, more than twenty years ago.
You want to compare Bowyer with Curbishley? Do me a favour.
Lee Bowyer was a very good prospect for Charlton a couple of decades ago. He became a horrible, nasty, spiteful, violent, thug, convicted of violent crimes and guilty of some of the most abhorrent acts wherever he played across England. Is he the right person to be "cooaching" young Charlton players about how to develop their careers? He's not fit to tie Alan Curbishley's bootlaces, let alone be compared to him.
So to sum up Chizz, you do not rate Bowyer?
I assume mistakes were made and he has learnt from them. Should fit right in.
Bowyer and Jackson is exactly what we need,both Charlton and will both be eager to succeed,lets get behind them,everybody has to start somewhere so why not two Charlton lads
Don't seem to remember Curbs and Gritt having too much coaching experience!They didn't do too bad.Everyone has start at some point
As I remember it both had been coaching the reserves and first team under Lawrence for a while but you are right they had relatively little experience.
But then I also remember we didn't have a pot to piss in rather than a multi-millionaire owner.
I don't know if Bowyer is any good or will become good but he is a strange choice when supposedly we have such a generous owner.
Just trying to forget for one moment the wealth of RD.We are in Lg 1 and many on here say they want there Charlton back.Well JJ and Bowyer are pretty much Charlton - so I would have thought they tick that Box!
JJ yes, Boywer play 50 games, very good games mind, 20 years ago. Not really Charlton thru and thru.
Personally I think the whole "proper Charlton" thing is over rated. Rather have a good coach than a bad or inexperienced one who happened to play for us and that includes JJ.
All other things being equal then knowing the club is useful and certainly JJ does. Not sure LB does.
But we shall see.
I agree with this, but if a coach or manager has some "Charlton pedigree", he'll be afforded more slack by he fans when things don't go to plan. Which is, unfortunately, almost always the case.
Given two equal candidates, I'd always pick one that was a bit "proper Charlton" over someone who wasn't.
So, I agree with you that a good coach is better than a bad coach who happened to play for Charlton. But I'd always prefer someone with a bit of Charlton in his background.
Murray got massive stick for choosing to keep Curbs instead of Gritt, as Gritt was proper Charlton, whereas Curbs was that West Ham bloke. Sometimes you can't let sentiment be too much of a factor, it's about getting the balance right I guess.
It us a little strange that Jasn Euell isn't moving up to fist team coach given he gas developed a coaching track record with the youngsters, but maybe that is regarded as his niche area.
To be honest, Robinson can appoint who he likes as coaches as long as he is choosing them, because he'll be judged on the outcomes not them, but I am 1) suspicious of his persistent name-dropping and 2) incredulous that people think Bowyer has anything to bring to the table in terms of "being Charlton".
Airman........I can say with some certainty that he has some fair degree of affection for us, going back quite some years in fact. Whether or not you can call it 'proper Charlton' is of course a matter of conjecture, but it is never the less true.
To be honest, Robinson can appoint who he likes as coaches as long as he is choosing them, because he'll be judged on the outcomes not them, but I am 1) suspicious of his persistent name-dropping and 2) incredulous that people think Bowyer has anything to bring to the table in terms of "being Charlton".
Agreed, as I said at the time he was first allowed through the gates at Sparrows Lane, if Robinson wanted an ex Premier league goalscoring midfielder who knows what Charlton is all about to work with the first XI, then why look further than Jason Euell?
Not only does he know the club about as well as anyone still working for it after, what is it now, 10 or 15 seasons as a player and coach, but he also comes across as a thoroughly likable human being, which certainly has not always been true of Bowyer.
Maybe Euelly doesn't want the role, but if Robinson is deliberately not using him as a resource then he's a fool.
Airman........I can say with some certainty that he has some fair degree of affection for us, going back quite some years in fact. Whether or not you can call it 'proper Charlton' is of course a matter of conjecture, but it is never the less true.
Can't speak to his attitude to the club and happy to accept what you say - meant more that he was here as a kid and has been away 20 years. So when Robinson said he was going to learn about Charlton from him, I wondered what he had to teach.
If KR wanted to learn about Charlton 20 years ago, he'd be better off speaking to Keith Peacock, who I am sure is available to him. He may have done so, but then KP isn't a name he can throw in to a media interview as evidence of his PL mates.
Airman........I can say with some certainty that he has some fair degree of affection for us, going back quite some years in fact. Whether or not you can call it 'proper Charlton' is of course a matter of conjecture, but it is never the less true.
Can't speak to his attitude to the club and happy to accept what you say - meant more that he was here as a kid and has been away 20 years. So when Robinson said he was going to learn about Charlton from him, I wondered what he had to teach.
If KR wanted to learn about Charlton 20 years ago, he'd be better off speaking to Keith Peacock, who I am sure is available to him. He may have done so, but then KP isn't a name he can throw in to a media interview as evidence of his PL mates.
KR does seem to like name dropping, maybe he feels that bringing in big names (like Robbie Fowler) will have more of an impact. Maybe the "show us your medals" factor (or show us your Bentley factor) means that "big name" players gets more respect from the youngsters in the dressing room?
To get us out of this mess we need the best coaches regardless of background. I get the feeling Bowyer has been brought in as a sop to fans - I hope I am wrong but cannot see what else justifies his selection. As for KR learning about the club ... has Bowyer shown any interest in the club since he left (why should he) and even if he has, if that's the main reason for his coming back then KR could have learnt all he wanted over one dinner. And even that would have been about life under Curbishley.
We seem hell bent on hiring more and more people for the bench rather than one or two of the right people.
Airman........I can say with some certainty that he has some fair degree of affection for us, going back quite some years in fact. Whether or not you can call it 'proper Charlton' is of course a matter of conjecture, but it is never the less true.
Can't speak to his attitude to the club and happy to accept what you say - meant more that he was here as a kid and has been away 20 years. So when Robinson said he was going to learn about Charlton from him, I wondered what he had to teach.
If KR wanted to learn about Charlton 20 years ago, he'd be better off speaking to Keith Peacock, who I am sure is available to him. He may have done so, but then KP isn't a name he can throw in to a media interview as evidence of his PL mates.
KR does seem to like name dropping, maybe he feels that bringing in big names (like Robbie Fowler) will have more of an impact. Maybe the "show us your medals" factor (or show us your Bentley factor) means that "big name" players gets more respect from the youngsters in the dressing room?
Danny Murphy is happy to pop in and flash his watch around.
It is true that KR will name drop, but if you follow his interviews what passes unremarked is his name dropping of less well known football people. He will know about coaches and managers from all around and will acknowledge them as much, indeed more, than mentions of Fowler, or Bowyer...although Bowyer we find out is for a reason. He has mentioned Deli Alli once or twice. There may be a desire to link himself, and indeed the club with aspiration, and he is eager to portray himself and Charlton as not being a footballing backwater. I also believe that despite probably not being as subtle or nuanced as an older man might be, that he is more genuine than people might give him credit for when they concentrate on the Scouser with verbal diahorreah angle. He always seems to me to be a bloke who loves being in football where his cynicism and innocence are often at odds with each other. The most obvious example of that to me is his innocent hope that Duchatelet will come through playing against the disingenuous face he has to show when he realises the Duchatelet reality is unworkable. He wants success for himself as much as for Charlton of course but is also playing with the boys in the English football minefield. He knows that if somehow he can make it work at Charlton it will play out well.
Don't seem to remember Curbs and Gritt having too much coaching experience!They didn't do too bad.Everyone has start at some point
As I remember it both had been coaching the reserves and first team under Lawrence for a while but you are right they had relatively little experience.
But then I also remember we didn't have a pot to piss in rather than a multi-millionaire owner.
I don't know if Bowyer is any good or will become good but he is a strange choice when supposedly we have such a generous owner.
Just trying to forget for one moment the wealth of RD.We are in Lg 1 and many on here say they want there Charlton back.Well JJ and Bowyer are pretty much Charlton - so I would have thought they tick that Box!
JJ yes, Boywer play 50 games, very good games mind, 20 years ago. Not really Charlton thru and thru.
Personally I think the whole "proper Charlton" thing is over rated. Rather have a good coach than a bad or inexperienced one who happened to play for us and that includes JJ.
All other things being equal then knowing the club is useful and certainly JJ does. Not sure LB does.
But we shall see.
This! We hear it a lot, he's proper Charlton or he's not. But at best it means very little and for the most part I am sure, absolutely nothing at. Sure, some teams have a history of different styles of play and richer clubs expect more in terms of the quality, but ultimately all clubs from Barcelona to Barkingside expect players, coaches and managers who: - Always try their hardest. - Never give up or let their head drop. - Have a certain level of skill. - Are prepared to learn. - Are prepared to be flexible. - Motivate others. - Have a good relationship with colleagues and fans. - Don't look to move on at the first opportunity. - Don't do anything that would embarrass the club. - Do some good deeds that paint the club in a good light.
Sure, if you've got these attributes, you'll be proper Charlton. You'll also be proper Chelsea, proper Chesterfield and Proper Chalfont St Peter.
This whole "Proper Anyclub" thing is a myth propagated by fans and clubs alike to make the ordinary seem extraordinary. Don't believe the hype.
Don't seem to remember Curbs and Gritt having too much coaching experience!They didn't do too bad.Everyone has start at some point
As I remember it both had been coaching the reserves and first team under Lawrence for a while but you are right they had relatively little experience.
But then I also remember we didn't have a pot to piss in rather than a multi-millionaire owner.
I don't know if Bowyer is any good or will become good but he is a strange choice when supposedly we have such a generous owner.
Just trying to forget for one moment the wealth of RD.We are in Lg 1 and many on here say they want there Charlton back.Well JJ and Bowyer are pretty much Charlton - so I would have thought they tick that Box!
JJ yes, Boywer play 50 games, very good games mind, 20 years ago. Not really Charlton thru and thru.
Personally I think the whole "proper Charlton" thing is over rated. Rather have a good coach than a bad or inexperienced one who happened to play for us and that includes JJ.
All other things being equal then knowing the club is useful and certainly JJ does. Not sure LB does.
But we shall see.
This! We hear it a lot, he's proper Charlton or he's not. But at best it means very little and for the most part I am sure, absolutely nothing at. Sure, some teams have a history of different styles of play and richer clubs expect more in terms of the quality, but ultimately all clubs from Barcelona to Barkingside expect players, coaches and managers who: - Always try their hardest. - Never give up or let their head drop. - Have a certain level of skill. - Are prepared to learn. - Are prepared to be flexible. - Motivate others. - Have a good relationship with colleagues and fans. - Don't look to move on at the first opportunity. - Don't do anything that would embarrass the club. - Do some good deeds that paint the club in a good light.
Sure, if you've got these attributes, you'll be proper Charlton. You'll also be proper Chelsea, proper Chesterfield and Proper Chalfont St Peter.
This whole "Proper Anyclub" thing is a myth propagated by fans and clubs alike to make the ordinary seem extraordinary. Don't believe the hype.
Maybe but just as I don't give a toss how funny/chatty/upbeat/gobby Robinson is just as long as he wins games I don't care if Bowyer is any good in front of a camera.
If he's a decent coach and role model then stuff his media profile. He's said he doesn't want to be a manager and maybe that's one of the reasons why.
Comments
Personally I think the whole "proper Charlton" thing is over rated. Rather have a good coach than a bad or inexperienced one who happened to play for us and that includes JJ.
All other things being equal then knowing the club is useful and certainly JJ does. Not sure LB does.
But we shall see.
Let's just hope it's the right one........good luck Lee.
Given two equal candidates, I'd always pick one that was a bit "proper Charlton" over someone who wasn't.
So, I agree with you that a good coach is better than a bad coach who happened to play for Charlton. But I'd always prefer someone with a bit of Charlton in his background.
I'd much prefer to see a more experienced coach in the mix as well.
As we are often told our owner is willing to fund our losses and the debt is unimportant unless the club is sold and as the club is not for sale that doesn't apply.
So the owner can afford more than just JJ and LB if he wants success.
Otherwise he'll be repeating his previous mistakes, the one he's meant to have learnt from, of leaving us under resourced and inexperienced in key areas going into yet another season.
That's not Bowyer's fault. He's a young, inexperienced coach trying to make a career and so he's taken this opportunity with both hands as anyone would.
If he turns out to be a good coach we all win so can only wish him the best of luck.
Whether or not you can call it 'proper Charlton' is of course a matter of conjecture, but it is never the less true.
Not only does he know the club about as well as anyone still working for it after, what is it now, 10 or 15 seasons as a player and coach, but he also comes across as a thoroughly likable human being, which certainly has not always been true of Bowyer.
Maybe Euelly doesn't want the role, but if Robinson is deliberately not using him as a resource then he's a fool.
If KR wanted to learn about Charlton 20 years ago, he'd be better off speaking to Keith Peacock, who I am sure is available to him. He may have done so, but then KP isn't a name he can throw in to a media interview as evidence of his PL mates.
End of the day there are more important positions to fill (i.e. Players !) and they are what matter to me.
We seem hell bent on hiring more and more people for the bench rather than one or two of the right people.
He will know about coaches and managers from all around and will acknowledge them as much, indeed more, than mentions of Fowler, or Bowyer...although Bowyer we find out is for a reason. He has mentioned Deli Alli once or twice.
There may be a desire to link himself, and indeed the club with aspiration, and he is eager to portray himself and Charlton as not being a footballing backwater. I also believe that despite probably not being as subtle or nuanced as an older man might be, that he is more genuine than people might give him credit for when they concentrate on the Scouser with verbal diahorreah angle.
He always seems to me to be a bloke who loves being in football where his cynicism and innocence are often at odds with each other. The most obvious example of that to me is his innocent hope that Duchatelet will come through playing against the disingenuous face he has to show when he realises the Duchatelet reality is unworkable. He wants success for himself as much as for Charlton of course but is also playing with the boys in the English football minefield. He knows that if somehow he can make it work at Charlton it will play out well.
This! We hear it a lot, he's proper Charlton or he's not. But at best it means very little and for the most part I am sure, absolutely nothing at. Sure, some teams have a history of different styles of play and richer clubs expect more in terms of the quality, but ultimately all clubs from Barcelona to Barkingside expect players, coaches and managers who:
- Always try their hardest.
- Never give up or let their head drop.
- Have a certain level of skill.
- Are prepared to learn.
- Are prepared to be flexible.
- Motivate others.
- Have a good relationship with colleagues and fans.
- Don't look to move on at the first opportunity.
- Don't do anything that would embarrass the club.
- Do some good deeds that paint the club in a good light.
Sure, if you've got these attributes, you'll be proper Charlton. You'll also be proper Chelsea, proper Chesterfield and Proper Chalfont St Peter.
This whole "Proper Anyclub" thing is a myth propagated by fans and clubs alike to make the ordinary seem extraordinary. Don't believe the hype.