If you voted Leave you are: A racist, anti immigrant madman who has no intelligence, doesn't have a degree and works in some useless manual job where you have no intellectual conversations. You were born in a ditch and you'll die in one.
If you voted remain: You are deeply intelligent and incredibly passionate about all things good. You never have a bad thing to say to anyone (other than racist brexiteers) and stroke rabbits to sleep in the evenings after your public sector jobs where you contribute massively to your local communities.
If you voted Leave you are: A racist, anti immigrant madman who has no intelligence, doesn't have a degree and works in some useless manual job where you have no intellectual conversations. You were born in a ditch and you'll die in one.
If you voted remain: You are deeply intelligent and incredibly passionate about all things good. You never have a bad thing to say to anyone (other than racist brexiteers) and stroke rabbits to sleep in the evenings after your public sector jobs where you contribute massively to your local communities.
Brilliant summary, but you forgot to add that Brexiteers all have micro-penises that could barely satisfy a hamster whilst we remainers are hung like Shergar and can go at it all night.
Unless you live in or near Clacton (in which case, condolences) your MP is almost certainly someone elected on a manifesto clearly opposed to a hard Brexit. LibDem and Labour MPs were clear that they were against leaving. And the Conservatives included, within their manifesto, a pledge to remain in the single market.
It will be interesting to see which MPs vote against the pledges on which they were elected.
Unless you live in or near Clacton (in which case, condolences) your MP is almost certainly someone elected on a manifesto clearly opposed to a hard Brexit. LibDem and Labour MPs were clear that they were against leaving. And the Conservatives included, within their manifesto, a pledge to remain in the single market.
It will be interesting to see which MPs vote against the pledges on which they were elected.
In reality I think it will be a pretty comfortable vote for Brexit regardless.
Unless you live in or near Clacton (in which case, condolences) your MP is almost certainly someone elected on a manifesto clearly opposed to a hard Brexit. LibDem and Labour MPs were clear that they were against leaving. And the Conservatives included, within their manifesto, a pledge to remain in the single market.
It will be interesting to see which MPs vote against the pledges on which they were elected.
In reality I think it will be a pretty comfortable vote for Brexit regardless.
I agree. I just wonder what the vote would be if all MPs did what they're supposed to do, which is to vote in the best interests of the country.
There are only 80 or so Conservative MPs who think it is in the best interest of the country. Shame Cameron did not set the % at binding referenda levels which would have meant 75% for to be acted on.
Ironically today's development was actually something well worth debating and hearing how both remainers and leavers took to the news.
See your point but For every page 'well worth reading' on the brexit thread there was at least 20 pages of complete nonsense. That's why it had to be closed.
Ironically today's development was actually something well worth debating and hearing how both remainers and leavers took to the news.
See your point but For every page 'well worth reading' on the brexit thread there was at least 20 pages of complete nonsense. That's why it had to be closed.
Unless you live in or near Clacton (in which case, condolences) your MP is almost certainly someone elected on a manifesto clearly opposed to a hard Brexit. LibDem and Labour MPs were clear that they were against leaving. And the Conservatives included, within their manifesto, a pledge to remain in the single market.
It will be interesting to see which MPs vote against the pledges on which they were elected.
This is, I think, the reason why it was essential for the matter to be discussed in parliament.
Lot of Labour MPs up North voted to remain, but their constituents voted overwhelming to leave, (some 75%). How does Parliament having a say help?
By allowing those with the time and facilities to make an informed decision make the choice.
Of course though it's a particularly interesting question that you raise, given that one of the most common reasons stated for voting out was 'to regain our sovereignty'. The reality is though that 99.99% of us won't have any more sovereignty at all after brexit. Ordinary people aren't going to have any more say in the way things are done; it'll just be a different group of people making decisions in our name.
"By allowing those with the time and facilities to make an informed decision make the choice that best serves their careers".
it'll just be a different group of people making decisions in our name who we can vote out"
Just showing a possible different perspective.
Heard Lord Peter Hain on the radio saying he would vote against Article 50 because he was certain people would be worse off. When challenged how he could be certain he waffled along until admitting he knew there was a risk of people being worse off.
I didn't need much time and facilities to reach the same conclusion as he did. It's politics, politics, politics and bullshit, not informed decisions I'm afraid.
Lot of Labour MPs up North voted to remain, but their constituents voted overwhelming to leave, (some 75%). How does Parliament having a say help?
By allowing those with the time and facilities to make an informed decision make the choice.
Of course though it's a particularly interesting question that you raise, given that one of the most common reasons stated for voting out was 'to regain our sovereignty'. The reality is though that 99.99% of us won't have any more sovereignty at all after brexit. Ordinary people aren't going to have any more say in the way things are done; it'll just be a different group of people making decisions in our name.
Ordinary people had a massive say in what is to be done last June. The decision to leave was taken against the very people who you say run things. How this is not a reason to celebrate democracy as exercised by ordinary people I will never understand. Particularly as in the same breath you bemoan the lack of power of ordinary people. You are suggesting that a group of MPs should have more say than them.
The problem of the referendum was that it was too simple. We do have a clear message from it, that the majority of British voters want to leave the EU, so that needs to be honoured. But how we leave is important - we all ought to want to leave in the best way for our prosperity. Because the referendum was a yes or no - we had the ridiculous situation of both sides inventing issues which hit the heights when we had a Brexit advert showing an NHS where we all had our own personal doctors! Promises were made about staying in the single market and these were important.
Some may dismiss this by saying both sides were lying, but this exposes the weakness of the referendum. To be honest, Cameron never expected us to vote leave so it didn't matter at the time. Now before all the rabid leavers throw their rattles out of the pram, they should consider a couple of things. Firstly, they will get what they want - we will leave -and secondly, surely they want us to leave on terms most favourable to us and them. That is all this is effectively about. If May does a bad job in negotiations our democratically elected MPs can insist we try to get a better deal. If she gets a good deal, they won't dare oppose it. I think this is helpful to her. One of the bargaining chips we have is that we can delay things and cause uncertainty that will affect the Eu as well as us! She probably wants to be seen to oppose it, but won't be too upset by it in reality. Why does the Daily Mail and some people have to get silly about this.
What gets me is that there are people with such complete faith in May that they want her to execute this highly complex task that has never been performed before, unchecked by our elected parliament. Seems a bit weird (meaning unique).
Comments
If you voted Leave you are:
A racist, anti immigrant madman who has no intelligence, doesn't have a degree and works in some useless manual job where you have no intellectual conversations. You were born in a ditch and you'll die in one.
If you voted remain:
You are deeply intelligent and incredibly passionate about all things good. You never have a bad thing to say to anyone (other than racist brexiteers) and stroke rabbits to sleep in the evenings after your public sector jobs where you contribute massively to your local communities.
- Old vs Young
- Scotland and NI v England and Wales
- London v the rest
- Metropolitan Elite v Disenfranchised Working Class
Brexit or no Brexit, if we let this chance for a good old fashioned intra-nation tear up to settle some old scores pass us by we'll all regret it.
It will be interesting to see which MPs vote against the pledges on which they were elected.
I had 6.4k posts waiting to be read.
Knew that thread title sounded familiar
Of course though it's a particularly interesting question that you raise, given that one of the most common reasons stated for voting out was 'to regain our sovereignty'. The reality is though that 99.99% of us won't have any more sovereignty at all after brexit. Ordinary people aren't going to have any more say in the way things are done; it'll just be a different group of people making decisions in our name.
it'll just be a different group of people making decisions in our name who we can vote out"
Just showing a possible different perspective.
Heard Lord Peter Hain on the radio saying he would vote against Article 50 because he was certain people would be worse off. When challenged how he could be certain he waffled along until admitting he knew there was a risk of people being worse off.
I didn't need much time and facilities to reach the same conclusion as he did. It's politics, politics, politics and bullshit, not informed decisions I'm afraid.
Some may dismiss this by saying both sides were lying, but this exposes the weakness of the referendum. To be honest, Cameron never expected us to vote leave so it didn't matter at the time. Now before all the rabid leavers throw their rattles out of the pram, they should consider a couple of things. Firstly, they will get what they want - we will leave -and secondly, surely they want us to leave on terms most favourable to us and them. That is all this is effectively about. If May does a bad job in negotiations our democratically elected MPs can insist we try to get a better deal. If she gets a good deal, they won't dare oppose it. I think this is helpful to her. One of the bargaining chips we have is that we can delay things and cause uncertainty that will affect the Eu as well as us! She probably wants to be seen to oppose it, but won't be too upset by it in reality. Why does the Daily Mail and some people have to get silly about this.
Bloody left wing press scaremongering again.