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Diesel Petrol debate

razilrazil
edited February 2017 in Not Sports Related
Now a big issue as nitrous oxide from diesel is shown to be causing serious damage to health in cities.

Not so great for anyone who's just ordered a diesel car... (moi) although the new ones are very efficient and lower emissions. I also rarely do any town driving.

So what will happen next, hike in fuel duty on diesel?
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Comments

  • ShootersHillGuruShootersHillGuru
    Diesel engines older than five years should be banned from central London. Taxis should be required to move to electric power within a sensible timeframe ( 5 years). Same for all busses. Other diesel cars and Lorries should pay a very high daily charge. Government should introduce a scrappage scheme for dielels over five years.

    Will be unpopular and unfair but the air quality in central London is so bad that radical action has to take place.
  • FiiishFiiish
    razil said:

    Now a big issue as nitrous oxide from diesel is shown to be causing serious damage to health in cities.

    Not so great for anyone who's just ordered a diesel car... (moi) although the new ones are very efficient and lower emissions. I also rarely do any town driving.

    So what will happen next, hike in fuel duty on diesel?

    Have a look at the new VED changes being brought in for all cars registered after April 2017. I just had a butcher's at them but it seems they still go off CO2 emissions and not the noxious emissions associated with diesel. There are no changes currently planned for cars registered before April 2017 and I don't think any political party has the stomach to wage a war on motorists, particularly when many, myself included, only bought a diesel for the supposed fuel efficiency and the lower road tax.

    Not sure if the Mayor of London or if TfL are currently looking at banning diesels from the city centre or increasing the congestion charge on such vehicles?
  • razilrazil
    Can't disagree but there seems to be a potentially valid compensation argument for those who are being penalised if they were encouraged to buy and are now being slopped
  • razilrazil
    Never understood why taxis and buses weren't sorted well before now
  • newyorkaddicknewyorkaddick
    You can't beat the lazy pull of a fully laden diesel car at low revs on the motorway - however I agree it would be an odd car of choice if most of your driving was urban.
  • C.Walsh'sLoveChildC.Walsh'sLoveChild
    Mrs Dobbo and myself both bought diesel cars at the beginning of last summer.
    Actively encouraged to buy diesel as was deemed more economical and £0 car tax.

    Merde
  • PragueAddickPragueAddick
    I'm not in the UK but for the first time in my life I drive a diesel. Well, more accurately, a diesel hybrid. It was the hybrid bit I wanted and if it would have been a petrol I would have been equally happy. Its a Citroen DS5 and more or less a brand new model when I bought it. At the time (4 years ago) nobody was telling me diesels were such pollutants. And I guess nobody was telling Citroen either. I am really curious what Citroen are going to do about the next DS5. It must be only a year before launch. I will be gutted if they have to scrap the hybrid because of the diesel element. For me, its the perfect car and I have no idea what I would buy instead. The only other one I considered at the time was the Volvo V60 plugin hybrid but you could almost buy a football club for the price they were asking.
  • MacronateMacronate
    Mushrooms are the way forward.
  • TELTEL
    Personally I love diesel motors....However they have never quite taken off over here in Australia.
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  • Dazzler21Dazzler21
    Macronate said:

    Mushrooms are the way forward.

    There's not mushroom to improve on that comment.
  • razilrazil
    I looked a tesla 4x4 120k..
  • razilrazil
    PragueAddick said:

    I'm not in the UK but for the first time in my life I drive a diesel. Well, more accurately, a diesel hybrid. It was the hybrid bit I wanted and if it would have been a petrol I would have been equally happy. Its a Citroen DS5 and more or less a brand new model when I bought it. At the time (4 years ago) nobody was telling me diesels were such pollutants. And I guess nobody was telling Citroen either. I am really curious what Citroen are going to do about the next DS5. It must be only a year before launch. I will be gutted if they have to scrap the hybrid because of the diesel element. For me, its the perfect car and I have no idea what I would buy instead. The only other one I considered at the time was the Volvo V60 plugin hybrid but you could almost buy a football club for the price they were asking.

    This is mainly an urban driving issue I think, so there is an argument for hybrid or electric in that case. Diesels are still more efficient and less polluting out of town than petrols. So a diesel hybrid could still be deemed acceptable if you are using electric in town.
  • Dazzler21Dazzler21
    Just about to buy a diesel but I do drive 20 miles each way to work, so the economy is what's needed.
  • guinnessaddickguinnessaddick
    Have only ever syphoned petrol and it nearly took the enamel off my teeth, not sure I would like to taste diesel.
  • PragueAddickPragueAddick
    razil said:

    PragueAddick said:

    I'm not in the UK but for the first time in my life I drive a diesel. Well, more accurately, a diesel hybrid. It was the hybrid bit I wanted and if it would have been a petrol I would have been equally happy. Its a Citroen DS5 and more or less a brand new model when I bought it. At the time (4 years ago) nobody was telling me diesels were such pollutants. And I guess nobody was telling Citroen either. I am really curious what Citroen are going to do about the next DS5. It must be only a year before launch. I will be gutted if they have to scrap the hybrid because of the diesel element. For me, its the perfect car and I have no idea what I would buy instead. The only other one I considered at the time was the Volvo V60 plugin hybrid but you could almost buy a football club for the price they were asking.

    This is mainly an urban driving issue I think, so there is an argument for hybrid or electric in that case. Diesels are still more efficient and less polluting out of town than petrols. So a diesel hybrid could still be deemed acceptable if you are using electric in town.
    My hybrid doesnt work like that. It is permanently using a combo of both engines. It cannot do more than about 2kms on the electric alone. In that respect, Citroen's claims were totally bogus, but I have forgiven them because it is still slinking around town doing the same overall consumption as my wife's Yaris. It is town driving where it is most economical, and since 90% of my usage is in town, it makes perfect sense for me.

  • razilrazil
    Well there may be different pollution issues in Prague, also the emissions may be so low that the impact is still better than a straight petrol in town.

    Without a proper plan this is going to be painful and it would appear governments have got it wrong and or ignored pollution levels til being forced to address them.
  • razilrazil
    edited February 2017
    With transport networks in cities I think you have to question why people commute by car in some circumstances. Other vehicles will have to electric for urban.

    I cycled for 20 years sucking up this stuff (NOX), convinced it damaged my sinuses which recently get inflamed and vibrate every time I get as much as a sniffle. Who knows what other damage.
  • letthegoodtimesrollletthegoodtimesroll
    My last 3 cars have been diesel. When I put my foot down and the car takes off I sometimes think to myself that I should have got the petrol version because that must move like shit off a shovel if it is quicker but then I think the extra mileage per gallon I get means I don't have to refuel as often as I would have.

    And, as I recall it, I thought we were doing the planet a favour by switching to diesel because they produce less of that global warming gas than the petroleum versions do. If there's a problem with car pollution in London it's because of traffic issues and they generally disappear in half term and other school holidays. Step one for the mayor of London should be to make sure than no child goes to a school that's more than a ten minute walk from home and traffic wardens hand out fixed tickets to all mums that drop kids off. Step two should be to raise an additional tax on offices with car parking. Step three for London should be TFL is allowed to take control of all urban train services that come into the capital and more frequent trains are added. Step four is more tram services are put in place, that's been a win/win service. Step 5 ban all diesel black cabs in London.

    Getting everybody to switch back to petrol is not the answer and getting everybody to switch to hybrid's / electric cars is not going to happen just yet.

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  • razilrazil
    Consumption on a petrol can be 30-40% higher, so more cost and pollution. Also turbo diesels have pretty much nullified the performance issue.
  • shirty5shirty5
    Pollution! All around! Sometimes up! Sometimes down! But always around!
    Pollution, are you coming to my town? Or am I coming to yours? Ha! We're on different buses, pollution! But we're both using petrol!
  • Dansk_RedDansk_Red
    The London congestion charge is a cash cow, the problem is once they allowed 'low emission cars' to avoid the charge the revenue dropped so they have to find new ways of raising cash. A friend of mine drives into London every day and avoids the charge by having a hybrid car, but never uses the electric mode, it is a company car his company reckon that by not having to pay the congestion charge, it is more than cost effected even with the premium on purchasing a hybrid.
  • bobmunrobobmunro
    I drive a hybrid X5 - 20km on electric only on a full charge. 110hp electric motor and 240hp petrol engine so it shifts!! It charges through regenerative braking and always retains 10% of the battery charge so that a boost is always available for overtaking.

    It's petrol so mostly does away with the NO emissions issue so I feel good about it - and it's a hybrid. That's bullshit really - I never plug it in and it's a wizard wheeze tax dodge as a Company car :)
  • IdleHansIdleHans
    edited February 2017
    I haven't heard the phrase 'wizard wheeze' since I last read the Beano.
  • A-R-T-H-U-RA-R-T-H-U-R
    TEL said:

    Personally I love diesel motors....However they have never quite taken off over here in Australia.

    Jet engines have, though.
  • A-R-T-H-U-RA-R-T-H-U-R
    Dansk_Red said:

    The London congestion charge is a cash cow, the problem is once they allowed 'low emission cars' to avoid the charge the revenue dropped so they have to find new ways of raising cash. A friend of mine drives into London every day and avoids the charge by having a hybrid car, but never uses the electric mode, it is a company car his company reckon that by not having to pay the congestion charge, it is more than cost effected even with the premium on purchasing a hybrid.

    It may be a cash cow, but cities are still signed up the the UN targets. Especially as over half of world cities are 2.5 times WHO pollution guidelines.

    Wood burners aren't helping either, but luckily I don't have one on my motorbike.
  • Anna_KissedAnna_Kissed
    LenGlover said:

    All about fleecing the motorist and /or pricing the unwashed whom had the temerity to vote Brexit off the road. Aircraft, lorries, buses etc emit far more than cars yet not a peep about the environmental damage they cause.

    All about control and restricting the freedom of ordinary people.

    The Class War has morphed into Political Class v The Rest.

    Rant over.

    Information about damaging particulate matter emitted by diesel engines has been in the public domain for many years. Politicians, including Two-Jags Prescott, chose to ignore the information available to them and promoted diesel as a beneficial option. A gullible and ignorant public bought into this tosh and we are now living (and, in some cases, dying from) the result.
    BBC Radio 4 has publicised the issue in its environmental programme Costing The Earth.
    Diesel: The Dirty Decade. bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04f9r9h

    Greenwich Council is backing a cruise liner terminal at Enderby Wharf. As usual, and depressingly so, the mantra is Economic Growth. Costing The Earth did an edition all about shipping recently.
    Cruising: A Dirty Secret. bbc.co.uk/programmes/b082hg9g

    A pedestrian and cyclist, I have been campaigning for more than twenty years about air-borne pollution. I have been called a crank, a doom-monger and a narcissist. In reality I am none of these things. I object to pollution, produced by other people, going into my lungs. Sadly, much like the Housing Crisis and the 'War on Terror', the damage has been done and a solution, if such can be realised, is far away.





  • letthegoodtimesrollletthegoodtimesroll
    Anna_Kissed said:

    LenGlover said:

    All about fleecing the motorist and /or pricing the unwashed whom had the temerity to vote Brexit off the road. Aircraft, lorries, buses etc emit far more than cars yet not a peep about the environmental damage they cause.

    All about control and restricting the freedom of ordinary people.

    The Class War has morphed into Political Class v The Rest.

    Rant over.

    Information about damaging particulate matter emitted by diesel engines has been in the public domain for many years. Politicians, including Two-Jags Prescott, chose to ignore the information available to them and promoted diesel as a beneficial option. A gullible and ignorant public bought into this tosh and we are now living (and, in some cases, dying from) the result.
    BBC Radio 4 has publicised the issue in its environmental programme Costing The Earth.
    Diesel: The Dirty Decade. bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04f9r9h

    Greenwich Council is backing a cruise liner terminal at Enderby Wharf. As usual, and depressingly so, the mantra is Economic Growth. Costing The Earth did an edition all about shipping recently.
    Cruising: A Dirty Secret. bbc.co.uk/programmes/b082hg9g

    A pedestrian and cyclist, I have been campaigning for more than twenty years about air-borne pollution. I have been called a crank, a doom-monger and a narcissist. In reality I am none of these things. I object to pollution, produced by other people, going into my lungs. Sadly, much like the Housing Crisis and the 'War on Terror', the damage has been done and a solution, if such can be realised, is far away.





    As soon as you wrote that you are a cyclist your points probably lost all credibility
  • cafcfancafcfan
    edited February 2017
    Fiiish said:

    razil said:

    Now a big issue as nitrous oxide from diesel is shown to be causing serious damage to health in cities.

    Not so great for anyone who's just ordered a diesel car... (moi) although the new ones are very efficient and lower emissions. I also rarely do any town driving.

    So what will happen next, hike in fuel duty on diesel?

    Have a look at the new VED changes being brought in for all cars registered after April 2017. I just had a butcher's at them but it seems they still go off CO2 emissions and not the noxious emissions associated with diesel. There are no changes currently planned for cars registered before April 2017 and I don't think any political party has the stomach to wage a war on motorists, particularly when many, myself included, only bought a diesel for the supposed fuel efficiency and the lower road tax.

    Not sure if the Mayor of London or if TfL are currently looking at banning diesels from the city centre or increasing the congestion charge on such vehicles?
    The new VED rates have an interesting twist: cars over £40k, be they diesel, petrol or a totally electric Tesla, have massive tax hikes.
    To me, this shows that the Govt. has twigged that in 5 years or so pretty much all new cars will be electric powered. (Have a look at the Jaguar i-Pace due out next year.) That will mean that the cash cow of fuel duty plus VAT on petrol and diesel will cease to exist. They can't lob the extra tax on electricity because of the impact on regular household fuel bills. So expect your tax disc# to be costing a fortune.
    Of course, this is very unfair as the tax is the same whether the car is doing 2000 miles a week or just sittting in the garage. But they've got to get the money from somewhere.
    (Also expect regular power cuts as everyone plugs in their car when they get home and puts on the kettle!)
    Edited to add #of course you don't even get a piece of paper for your road tax any more.
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