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Advice needed - Small claims court claim

As many of you will know- we are a printing company. We have a big customer who needed some invitation cards doing for a launch event with foiling - something we couldn't offer. However, they were content for us find somebody who could offer it and source and supply. We found a company who said they could do it - we sent them an e-mail giveng the go ahead and to invoice us, but only if they got to us by Tuesday last week. We rang on Tuesday to find that the cards hadn't left the factory. The person we dealt with who we think is a manager or the owner said they were waiting on the address to send to - we clearly had given them the address to send them to on the e-mail giving them the go ahead if they could deliver on time. We made it clear in the e-mail and telephone conversations how urgent they were.

The company apologised (We were very angry) and sent them out next day deliver via Royal mail. Royal mail lost the parcel and we spent the next day chasing and trying to find a solution as we were letting down a major customer who was really angry. I think the parcel was put on the wrong van as it was located on Wednesday evening and my brother had to make a 2.5 hour round trip to the depot to collect. We were unhappy with the lax attitude of teh company.

The lateness of the cards caused our customer significant hassle and additional expense, and as we didn't deliver on time they didn't pay us. We offered the company who had let us down the opportunity to refund us but they declined despite us having proof they admitted the blame, stating that we now had teh cards! The manager said he had to take his wife to hospital so couldn't make sure our parcel went out on time, but they seem to have a lot of staff and we don't think it was unreasonable to delegate - given that he knew and had in writing how important we had the order to our deadline. The issue with Royal mail compounded the problem, but they were already late! Our e-mail giving the go ahead, clearly stated it was on condition of them being able to meet our deadline.

I am going to make a small claims court claim today - we were willing to accept just a refund, but are now inclined to claim our losses - small profit we would have made on the items and time we spent having to try to resolve it. Does anybody have any advice on what it is best to do? We are very angry and it has become a matter of principle apart from anything else for us!


Comments

  • No experience of the process, but don't forget to include the damage to the relationship with your client.
  • In the long term is it worth it? This time next year will it matter?

    Going to court as a matter of principle can lead to irrational decisions.
  • edited March 2017
    We are significantly out of pocket and if we make a mistake we always refund - why should a company who doesn't get away with it? Especially as we made it clear the order was conditional on them being able to deliver on time.
  • does the small claims court "work" for company disputes ? I thought it was for individuals to persue but I might be wrong and often am.
  • Go for it. You had a contract in the form of the email and their undertaking to do the work. Assume they acknowledged ? I have heard the process for small claims is online and relatively straightforward.
  • does the small claims court "work" for company disputes ? I thought it was for individuals to persue but I might be wrong and often am.

    Yes it does. We've had a few incidents in our time. I find it very quick and easy and saves Consulting your solicitors.

    @MuttleyCAFC as long as it's in the values they state then claim for it mate. You have a strong case, particularly as you have evidence etc

    Sometimes people just need a kick up the arse to respond. Filing a claim should do the trick
  • As cables has said go for it. It's cheap with a rising scale of charges depending on your claim value and is strictly time controlled so won't drag on and on. Decided on balance of probabilities so if you have reasonable proof they failed to honour their side if the bargain then you should win. Good luck.
  • @MuttleyCAFC I'd also suggest that you look at how you would handle a request from a client in future, if they are requesting a service you cannot provide. maybe better to act as facilitator and let them get on with it.
  • Best bit about the small Claims Court is that win or lose there are no costs awarded except for the court fee and modest expenses of any witness that attends the hearing. Clearly it was an original term of the contract when and where the cards had to be delivered. Did you 'agree' that the company could then still send the cards after the original date ? I suspect this will be a crucial point for the court when deciding the case. Good luck!
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  • We are significantly out of pocket and if we make a mistake we always refund - why should a company who doesn't get away with it? Especially as we made it clear the order was conditional on them being able to deliver on time.

    Fair enough, go for it then.
  • Kap10 said:

    @MuttleyCAFC I'd also suggest that you look at how you would handle a request from a client in future, if they are requesting a service you cannot provide. maybe better to act as facilitator and let them get on with it.

    We could provide it through another party though - they knew we were doing this - they are a good customer and we were helping them out! They will not pay us as the cost of sending out the invitations on time has risen significantly, but their expectation is that we don't pay the compay that have let us down. Th eproblem is we already paid them after verbal assurances they could meet the deadline. And to be honest they would have done if they were organised - the items were printed in good time.
  • All on-line and simple to do now isn't it?

    https://gov.uk/make-money-claim-online
  • Did they send the stuff out via special delivery? They may have managed to beat the Royal Mail into submission over refunding them, so they can now refund you :-)
  • No, they didn't even do that. They are an old larger print company and do not have the same customer service standards as us. If we cock up - and we do sometimes- we go out of our way to sort out.
  • Yes, I was on step 5 of 8 when they had a change of heart and are now refunding us :)

    People always try it on thinking you won't want the hassle. Poor business practice really.

    Glad you got it sorted.

    I've had to write a few of them in my time. It's more the time it takes away from you cracking on with more important stuff that irks
  • Yes. To be honest if they had a machinery breakdown or similar we would have been more understanding, but it was pure incompetence and then they took the position that it was our problem. Hopefully this will be useful for others.
  • Wouldn't expect you'd be using them again Muttley.

    Hopefully though they will be better themselves going forwards.
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  • We are significantly out of pocket and if we make a mistake we always refund - why should a company who doesn't get away with it? Especially as we made it clear the order was conditional on them being able to deliver on time.

    Fair enough, go for it then.
  • You might need more than verbal assurances. If they contest that it might seriously prejudice your chances of winning although it will still come down to balance of probabilities.
  • Sorry to hear the story Muttley, as an ex-print designer, mainly on magazines and newspapers, I have a lot of sympathy for your situation. I used to project manage any print\repro going through the companies I worked for, and sounds to me like you acted in good faith to help a client, and this crap lands on your door step.

    Personally, I would contact the MD of the company and explain the consequences. If they have any sense, they should be prepared to stand by the consequences of there business. Screw up's happen, but in print they are literally there in black and white, or 4 colour so to speak. By the sounds of it you outsourced this to a specialist company, ( I have just done this for two wedding invites, and found them a bit casual to be honest, albeit the quality was excellent on receipt,) but then I am the type that would turn up and load the car myself, or van in the case of a certain magazine printer in Plymouth. Everyone makes mistakes, it is how the business deals with the consequences, when things go wrong.
  • edited March 2017
    Thanks Ken - Well they have agreed to pay us back following the threat to take them to small claims court - but you are exactly right. We did it to help a client using our experience - we also designed the cards so we are out of pocket for that alongside all the time we put in - whereas they didn't seem too concerned. But things go wrong as you said - it is just some companies are more bothered by this than others. I think the casual bit you have found with a company sums up this company - the job was actually a good one but we didn't stress the importance of meeting the deadline for a laugh.

    Nobody wins in this instance, but it is only right the company who made the mistake loses too or they will keep on adopting their lacklustre approach.
  • Muttley, you may wish to reconsider paying in advance, in the future (although I'm sure you already have).
  • edited March 2017
    The choice is not always there. But, we are happy to pay in advance as it is fairer for the company we are ordering from. If we hadn't paid, both parties would still have to agree responsibility and how to recompense. If we refused to pay - they could have put in a claim against us!
  • I have pursued grievences through the Small Claims Court on three occasions in the last 12 years.

    On two occasions the people I had issued a summons against backed down and settled in full withiin two days of the date that the case was due to be heard.

    On the third occasion ithe case went to court. The case was that I owned a flat. The tenant moved in his girlfriend. I later believed that she was a prostitute and was using the flat as her place of business. When they moved out the flat was a complete mess. I withheld £800 of the deposit to pay for the damage.

    The judge listened to the case. Then she instructed myself and the tenant to go to a private room and try to agree a settlement. She said that one of us would be unhappy and unless we were 100% sure of our facts it would be better to reach a compromise. I eventualy backed down and accepted £500 damages.

    The Small Claims Court is an excellent way of settling financial disputes. It is not unduly difficult to do and I would recommend it to anyone who has a problem.


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