3 "everyday" whites which usually have a good % hit rate on being decent.
All 3 are "usual suspects" for supermarket finest own label, which will be ok but a bit, meh, middle of the road. think of Tesco Finest as a safe option but never going to knock your socks off, to be supermarket own label you are going to have to produce at some output rate so you are never going to get the character and idiosyncratic character of a small producer.
These are the antithesis of the over-oaked Chardonnay that put people off white wine (sour belly bandit). think light floral notes, sweet(ish) but not cloying or over-perfumed.
Viognier (you can get a Baron Phillipe De Rothschild - 8 quid bargain) Vouvray (waitrose are doing a Chateau de Montfort which I think is great bang for the buck Gewurztraminer (seek out a producer called Domaine Zind Humbrecht - top notch, one of the better examples of this Alsace-Lorraine stalwart. tastes of Lychees)
@ColinTat Whenever people ask me about Czech wines my default answer has been to tell them to stick to the beer. Life's too short,etc. I have heard some progress has been made recently so I will try and get some tips for you. But they won't be reds. Czech reds are gash. In the Moravian climate with its tough winter you need real skills to produce a decent red. However Czech sweet wines, including ice wines, are one case where they may punch above their weight. BTW Olomouc is a very fine town, with its two main squares, an extravagance to rival Prescott's two Jags. However it is a bit to the north of the vineyards. Mikulov however is the wine heartland, and the hilltop town may remind you of St Emilion, at least before you get to the wine.
I expect you know your way around the Austrian wine scene, but you might want to know about Wein&co, who run a formidable business. Not just web based retail - and maybe, just maybe, their delivery costs to the UK might make them useable - but they run a chain of swish wine bars in Vienna and elsewhere. Most of them are evening destinations for Vienna's smart set, but the staff are very knowledegeable, and if you visit them off-peak they will provide you with some tips on wineries worth visiting. Thanks to them we called in on Heinrich (nb there are two with that name). Small but successful winery on the north east side of Neusiedler lake, and after an impromptu but expert presentation and tasting with the dangerously charming Mrs Heinrich, we made off with a mixed case, all of which have proved excellent. One especially interesting thing is that they have mostly moved to glass stoppers, but you should allow Mrs H. to explain the benefits in person.
Don't like red and can have a couple of glasses of white in a restaurant but don't think I have got the palette to appreciate wine really. (Very fussy eater). I can read the blurb on the bottle but I can never pick up the taste notes they suggest - a hint of caramel with an undertone of wet dog on bonfire night and a cleansing lemon sorbet aftertaste.
I like white but it don't like me (gives me bad acid guts) - so generally stick to red.
A Falletto Borollo (not sure if the year) is by far the nicest wine I can remember drinking. It was in an Italian restaurant in Las Vegas with a wild boar ragu.
@ColinTat Whenever people ask me about Czech wines my default answer has been to tell them to stick to the beer. Life's too short,etc. I have heard some progress has been made recently so I will try and get some tips for you. But they won't be reds. Czech reds are gash. In the Moravian climate with its tough winter you need real skills to produce a decent red. However Czech sweet wines, including ice wines, are one case where they may punch above their weight. BTW Olomouc is a very fine town, with its two main squares, an extravagance to rival Prescott's two Jags. However it is a bit to the north of the vineyards. Mikulov however is the wine heartland, and the hilltop town may remind you of St Emilion, at least before you get to the wine.
I expect you know your way around the Austrian wine scene, but you might want to know about Wein&co, who run a formidable business. Not just web based retail - and maybe, just maybe, their delivery costs to the UK might make them useable - but they run a chain of swish wine bars in Vienna and elsewhere. Most of them are evening destinations for Vienna's smart set, but the staff are very knowledegeable, and if you visit them off-peak they will provide you with some tips on wineries worth visiting. Thanks to them we called in on Heinrich (nb there are two with that name). Small but successful winery on the north east side of Neusiedler lake, and after an impromptu but expert presentation and tasting with the dangerously charming Mrs Heinrich, we made off with a mixed case, all of which have proved excellent. One especially interesting thing is that they have mostly moved to glass stoppers, but you should allow Mrs H. to explain the benefits in person.
talking about the Austrian wine scene.
have you heard of the glassmakers Riedel? they really are the Brazil 1970 of wine glass makers. I actually went to a "glass tasting" they put on...I was skeptical but amazed by the difference depending on the size shape and angle of the right glass for the right wine
@ColinTat Whenever people ask me about Czech wines my default answer has been to tell them to stick to the beer. Life's too short,etc. I have heard some progress has been made recently so I will try and get some tips for you. But they won't be reds. Czech reds are gash. In the Moravian climate with its tough winter you need real skills to produce a decent red. However Czech sweet wines, including ice wines, are one case where they may punch above their weight. BTW Olomouc is a very fine town, with its two main squares, an extravagance to rival Prescott's two Jags. However it is a bit to the north of the vineyards. Mikulov however is the wine heartland, and the hilltop town may remind you of St Emilion, at least before you get to the wine.
I expect you know your way around the Austrian wine scene, but you might want to know about Wein&co, who run a formidable business. Not just web based retail - and maybe, just maybe, their delivery costs to the UK might make them useable - but they run a chain of swish wine bars in Vienna and elsewhere. Most of them are evening destinations for Vienna's smart set, but the staff are very knowledegeable, and if you visit them off-peak they will provide you with some tips on wineries worth visiting. Thanks to them we called in on Heinrich (nb there are two with that name). Small but successful winery on the north east side of Neusiedler lake, and after an impromptu but expert presentation and tasting with the dangerously charming Mrs Heinrich, we made off with a mixed case, all of which have proved excellent. One especially interesting thing is that they have mostly moved to glass stoppers, but you should allow Mrs H. to explain the benefits in person.
talking about the Austrian wine scene.
have you heard of the glassmakers Riedel? they really are the Brazil 1970 of wine glass makers. I actually went to a "glass tasting" they put on...I was skeptical but amazed by the difference depending on the size shape and angle of the right glass for the right wine
Yes I have heard of them although never this sort of claim. I think Wineware stock them.
I know the language of wine is an easy target, and it's easy to poke fun from a position of ignorance, but can one of you serious players explain to me in plain language what you mean when you say a wine is "elegant" ?
I know the language of wine is an easy target, and it's easy to poke fun from a position of ignorance, but can one of you serious players explain to me in plain language what you mean when you say a wine is "elegant" ?
It means if you drink enough of it even ugly birds start to look attractive - or elegant
I actually love cheap reds from Wurtemberg, which is a bit further North than Moravia but I don't really know the differences in climate. Thanks for the advice. Have seen Wein&Co and PubKlemo whose prices seemed pretty amazing especially compared to England.
Read in a flight magazine wine review article on my way to god knows where some years back. "The delicate bouquet greets the nostrils like an old friend, I say a cautious hello to its hidden personality."
Read in a flight magazine wine review article on my way to god knows where some years back. "The delicate bouquet greets the nostrils like an old friend, I say a cautious hello to its hidden personality."
I know the language of wine is an easy target, and it's easy to poke fun from a position of ignorance, but can one of you serious players explain to me in plain language what you mean when you say a wine is "elegant" ?
I tend to drink wine rather than try to describe it but I think "elegant" is meant to describe a wine which is complex and well-balanced i.e. with lots of different flavour notes (fruit, tannins, oak etc.) but with none dominating.
Years back I was told to either spend less than a fiver or more than fifteen, vinegar has passed my lips on occasions but by large it worked quite well, currently hooked on merlots.
Used to love a glass or two of red in my younger days but mostly drink bourbons these days. Too many mornings woke with a banging headache when on the wine but maybe due to the cheap £5 bottles i used to buy. Reading this thread has made me want to try something abit more expensive and see if i notice the difference in quality and after effects. Just got 35% off these prices:
Trivento Golden Reserve Malbec 75Cl £15.00 Bellingham Pinotage 75Cl £10.00 Tesco Finest The Trilogy Malbec 75Cl £11.00 Marques De Casa Concha Syrah 75Cl £13.00 Marques De Casa Concha Chardonnay 75Cl £13.00 Faustino Gran Reserva 2005 75Cl £15.50 Campo Viejo Rioja Reserva 75Cl £9.00 Boschendal Sauvignon Blanc 75Cl £8.00
Did abit of research before ordering and these sounded pretty decent, hopefully got a few good picks in there.
big brands i tend to avoid - Blossom Hill, Ernst and Julio Gallo, any supermarket finest. (disclaimer - that's personal taste and experience, if you like these then fair play to you)
big brands that are good for the price - Errazuriz, J.P Chenet.
good places in the City - Planet of the Grapes, Beadles @ Spitalfields, Vagabond also @ Spitalfields
if you like a Chateau Neuf - try and find one made by a producer called Chateau Beaucastel. CNDP is a mix of up to 13 different grape varietals, Chateau Beaucastel is the only producer that uses all 13 in its blend.
Talking about big brands, Gallo I will never buy, or even drink if offered for free, because of the way they treated the long-established brand of Italian rice also called Gallo.
McGuigan Estate wines are OK or worse, except for the Merlot which is very good value when on 'offer' at £5. Which illustrates one of my pet peeves with the supermarkets. They never really sell their half-price wines at the 'original' price. How could they have something which would retail at £10, meaning it probably costs them £7 or £8, then offer it at £5?
I can't think of another big brand I'd drink apart from possibly Brown Brothers and I'm not really sure they're a big brand in the way that Gallo and Blossom Hill are.
Planet of the Grapes I can recommend.
A friend of mine in the trade (works at Philglass and Swiggot) recommends Theatre of Wine in Greenwhich.
There's a good independant in East Dulwich, La Cave de Bruno, and another in Sydenham, Bob's Wines.
Am I the only one here who doesn't particularly enjoy NZ whites? I find them overpriced and with a bit of a sour taste. I prefer Italian whites. I like a bit of Pinot grigio, frascsti, soave, but my all time favourite is verdicchio
@McBobbin Given what you like, it's little wonder you find NZ whites a bit sour. That's not to denigrate your choices, only saying you have a particular palate. If you want a bit of a change, try a medium chenin blanc from the Loire - for example a Vouvray, but check the label or talk to the shop assistant as Loire chenin blanc comes in all styles.
3 "everyday" whites which usually have a good % hit rate on being decent.
All 3 are "usual suspects" for supermarket finest own label, which will be ok but a bit, meh, middle of the road. think of Tesco Finest as a safe option but never going to knock your socks off, to be supermarket own label you are going to have to produce at some output rate so you are never going to get the character and idiosyncratic character of a small producer.
These are the antithesis of the over-oaked Chardonnay that put people off white wine (sour belly bandit). think light floral notes, sweet(ish) but not cloying or over-perfumed.
Viognier (you can get a Baron Phillipe De Rothschild - 8 quid bargain) Vouvray (waitrose are doing a Chateau de Montfort which I think is great bang for the buck Gewurztraminer (seek out a producer called Domaine Zind Humbrecht - top notch, one of the better examples of this Alsace-Lorraine stalwart. tastes of Lychees)
£8-12 quid a bottle should be about right.
I've had the Humbrecht gewurz out of those three specific wines - it is amazing for the price. I'll give the other two a go soon.
I know the language of wine is an easy target, and it's easy to poke fun from a position of ignorance, but can one of you serious players explain to me in plain language what you mean when you say a wine is "elegant" ?
simples - elegant as opposed to robust
i once got a description of a white as having "tones of apricots squashed upon tarmac" published in a review magazine. ha the language of wine.
@ColinTat Whenever people ask me about Czech wines my default answer has been to tell them to stick to the beer. Life's too short,etc. I have heard some progress has been made recently so I will try and get some tips for you. But they won't be reds. Czech reds are gash. In the Moravian climate with its tough winter you need real skills to produce a decent red. However Czech sweet wines, including ice wines, are one case where they may punch above their weight. BTW Olomouc is a very fine town, with its two main squares, an extravagance to rival Prescott's two Jags. However it is a bit to the north of the vineyards. Mikulov however is the wine heartland, and the hilltop town may remind you of St Emilion, at least before you get to the wine.
I expect you know your way around the Austrian wine scene, but you might want to know about Wein&co, who run a formidable business. Not just web based retail - and maybe, just maybe, their delivery costs to the UK might make them useable - but they run a chain of swish wine bars in Vienna and elsewhere. Most of them are evening destinations for Vienna's smart set, but the staff are very knowledegeable, and if you visit them off-peak they will provide you with some tips on wineries worth visiting. Thanks to them we called in on Heinrich (nb there are two with that name). Small but successful winery on the north east side of Neusiedler lake, and after an impromptu but expert presentation and tasting with the dangerously charming Mrs Heinrich, we made off with a mixed case, all of which have proved excellent. One especially interesting thing is that they have mostly moved to glass stoppers, but you should allow Mrs H. to explain the benefits in person.
talking about the Austrian wine scene.
have you heard of the glassmakers Riedel? they really are the Brazil 1970 of wine glass makers. I actually went to a "glass tasting" they put on...I was skeptical but amazed by the difference depending on the size shape and angle of the right glass for the right wine
Yes I have heard of them although never this sort of claim. I think Wineware stock them.
obviously the Ridel tasting reps deliberately select wines that accentuate the differences. but i was blown away in how noticeable the difference in taste and bouquet was when trying from different glasses. i know they have ranges which have around 50-60 different peices in and can be pricey - 60 quid a pair for the best ones. plus they break really easily doh
one big tip - Decant you cants.
remarkable difference for robust reds decanting for 30 minutes. if a restaurant is charging you 30 quid plus for a heavy red, insist on them decanting it.
big brands i tend to avoid - Blossom Hill, Ernst and Julio Gallo, any supermarket finest. (disclaimer - that's personal taste and experience, if you like these then fair play to you)
big brands that are good for the price - Errazuriz, J.P Chenet.
good places in the City - Planet of the Grapes, Beadles @ Spitalfields, Vagabond also @ Spitalfields
if you like a Chateau Neuf - try and find one made by a producer called Chateau Beaucastel. CNDP is a mix of up to 13 different grape varietals, Chateau Beaucastel is the only producer that uses all 13 in its blend.
Talking about big brands, Gallo I will never buy, or even drink if offered for free, because of the way they treated the long-established brand of Italian rice also called Gallo.
McGuigan Estate wines are OK or worse, except for the Merlot which is very good value when on 'offer' at £5. Which illustrates one of my pet peeves with the supermarkets. They never really sell their half-price wines at the 'original' price. How could they have something which would retail at £10, meaning it probably costs them £7 or £8, then offer it at £5?
I can't think of another big brand I'd drink apart from possibly Brown Brothers and I'm not really sure they're a big brand in the way that Gallo and Blossom Hill are.
Planet of the Grapes I can recommend.
A friend of mine in the trade (works at Philglass and Swiggot) recommends Theatre of Wine in Greenwhich.
There's a good independant in East Dulwich, La Cave de Bruno, and another in Sydenham, Bob's Wines.
yeah TOW is brilliant, run by the hugely entertaining owner. their tastings are really informative and inclusive...nothing worse than wine snobbery they also now have two shops in Tuffnell Park and Leytonstone
remarkable difference for robust reds decanting for 30 minutes. if a restaurant is charging you 30 quid plus for a heavy red, insist on them decanting it.
Absolutely. Actually matters more for young reds than for heavy of expensive ones.
Second big tip - serve your wines at the right temperature. Most people serve reds too warm and whites too cold. Reds should be cellar temperature, not room (light reds a bit cooler). Whites should be taken out of the fridge at least half an hour before drinking.
I actually love cheap reds from Wurtemberg, which is a bit further North than Moravia but I don't really know the differences in climate. Thanks for the advice. Have seen Wein&Co and PubKlemo whose prices seemed pretty amazing especially compared to England.
South of Stuttgart, Neckar Valley, I guess? I know that area a bit. Slightly more benign climate, I believe. Closer to the gulf stream and Atlantic. Moravian weather can be influenced more from the East, and nothing good ever blew in from Russia. But I thought Wurtemberg too is more known for its whites. I have never tried a German red, think I do not enjoy cooler climate reds generally.
remarkable difference for robust reds decanting for 30 minutes. if a restaurant is charging you 30 quid plus for a heavy red, insist on them decanting it.
Absolutely. Actually matters more for young reds than for heavy of expensive ones.
Second big tip - serve your wines at the right temperature. Most people serve reds too warm and whites too cold. Reds should be cellar temperature, not room (light reds a bit cooler). Whites should be taken out of the fridge at least half an hour before drinking.
Mate of mine gave me a tip which he said we must never practice in the company of a wine snob. Instead of decanting young reds, but to achieve the same benefit, pour the glass, get one of those little electric sauce stirring machines, and whizz it in the wine for five seconds or so. Job done, no decanter to wash out.
remarkable difference for robust reds decanting for 30 minutes. if a restaurant is charging you 30 quid plus for a heavy red, insist on them decanting it.
Absolutely. Actually matters more for young reds than for heavy of expensive ones.
Second big tip - serve your wines at the right temperature. Most people serve reds too warm and whites too cold. Reds should be cellar temperature, not room (light reds a bit cooler). Whites should be taken out of the fridge at least half an hour before drinking.
Mate of mine gave me a tip which he said we must never practice in the company of a wine snob. Instead of decanting young reds, but to achieve the same benefit, pour the glass, get one of those little electric sauce stirring machines, and whizz it in the wine for five seconds or so. Job done, no decanter to wash out.
or just pour it from a little way above the glass.
For those who think they don't like red wine, I'd suggest drinking it either with some cheese or meat. The proteins in these foods soften the tannins considerably, and often make the wine much more palatable. You shouldn't need to do it with a fruity new world wine such as South American Malbec, carmenere etc but especially for Rhone wines where tannins can be high it is worth bearing in mind.
Comments
All 3 are "usual suspects" for supermarket finest own label, which will be ok but a bit, meh, middle of the road. think of Tesco Finest as a safe option but never going to knock your socks off, to be supermarket own label you are going to have to produce at some output rate so you are never going to get the character and idiosyncratic character of a small producer.
These are the antithesis of the over-oaked Chardonnay that put people off white wine (sour belly bandit). think light floral notes, sweet(ish) but not cloying or over-perfumed.
Viognier (you can get a Baron Phillipe De Rothschild - 8 quid bargain)
Vouvray (waitrose are doing a Chateau de Montfort which I think is great bang for the buck
Gewurztraminer (seek out a producer called Domaine Zind Humbrecht - top notch, one of the better examples of this Alsace-Lorraine stalwart. tastes of Lychees)
£8-12 quid a bottle should be about right.
Whenever people ask me about Czech wines my default answer has been to tell them to stick to the beer. Life's too short,etc. I have heard some progress has been made recently so I will try and get some tips for you. But they won't be reds. Czech reds are gash. In the Moravian climate with its tough winter you need real skills to produce a decent red. However Czech sweet wines, including ice wines, are one case where they may punch above their weight. BTW Olomouc is a very fine town, with its two main squares, an extravagance to rival Prescott's two Jags. However it is a bit to the north of the vineyards. Mikulov however is the wine heartland, and the hilltop town may remind you of St Emilion, at least before you get to the wine.
I expect you know your way around the Austrian wine scene, but you might want to know about Wein&co, who run a formidable business. Not just web based retail - and maybe, just maybe, their delivery costs to the UK might make them useable - but they run a chain of swish wine bars in Vienna and elsewhere. Most of them are evening destinations for Vienna's smart set, but the staff are very knowledegeable, and if you visit them off-peak they will provide you with some tips on wineries worth visiting. Thanks to them we called in on Heinrich (nb there are two with that name). Small but successful winery on the north east side of Neusiedler lake, and after an impromptu but expert presentation and tasting with the dangerously charming Mrs Heinrich, we made off with a mixed case, all of which have proved excellent. One especially interesting thing is that they have mostly moved to glass stoppers, but you should allow Mrs H. to explain the benefits in person.
I like white but it don't like me (gives me bad acid guts) - so generally stick to red.
A Falletto Borollo (not sure if the year) is by far the nicest wine I can remember drinking. It was in an Italian restaurant in Las Vegas with a wild boar ragu.
have you heard of the glassmakers Riedel? they really are the Brazil 1970 of wine glass makers. I actually went to a "glass tasting" they put on...I was skeptical but amazed by the difference depending on the size shape and angle of the right glass for the right wine
I think ;-)
"The delicate bouquet greets the nostrils like an old friend, I say a cautious hello to its hidden personality."
Trivento Golden Reserve Malbec 75Cl £15.00
Bellingham Pinotage 75Cl £10.00
Tesco Finest The Trilogy Malbec 75Cl £11.00
Marques De Casa Concha Syrah 75Cl £13.00
Marques De Casa Concha Chardonnay 75Cl £13.00
Faustino Gran Reserva 2005 75Cl £15.50
Campo Viejo Rioja Reserva 75Cl £9.00
Boschendal Sauvignon Blanc 75Cl £8.00
Did abit of research before ordering and these sounded pretty decent, hopefully got a few good picks in there.
McGuigan Estate wines are OK or worse, except for the Merlot which is very good value when on 'offer' at £5. Which illustrates one of my pet peeves with the supermarkets. They never really sell their half-price wines at the 'original' price. How could they have something which would retail at £10, meaning it probably costs them £7 or £8, then offer it at £5?
I can't think of another big brand I'd drink apart from possibly Brown Brothers and I'm not really sure they're a big brand in the way that Gallo and Blossom Hill are.
Planet of the Grapes I can recommend.
A friend of mine in the trade (works at Philglass and Swiggot) recommends Theatre of Wine in Greenwhich.
There's a good independant in East Dulwich, La Cave de Bruno, and another in Sydenham, Bob's Wines.
i once got a description of a white as having "tones of apricots squashed upon tarmac" published in a review magazine. ha the language of wine. obviously the Ridel tasting reps deliberately select wines that accentuate the differences. but i was blown away in how noticeable the difference in taste and bouquet was when trying from different glasses. i know they have ranges which have around 50-60 different peices in and can be pricey - 60 quid a pair for the best ones. plus they break really easily
one big tip - Decant you cants.
remarkable difference for robust reds decanting for 30 minutes. if a restaurant is charging you 30 quid plus for a heavy red, insist on them decanting it.
Second big tip - serve your wines at the right temperature. Most people serve reds too warm and whites too cold. Reds should be cellar temperature, not room (light reds a bit cooler). Whites should be taken out of the fridge at least half an hour before drinking.
You shouldn't need to do it with a fruity new world wine such as South American Malbec, carmenere etc but especially for Rhone wines where tannins can be high it is worth bearing in mind.