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Bounced cheque

TalalTalal
in Not Sports Related
It's 2017 but cheques do in fact still exist....
Anyway, my great uncle passed away recently at 95 (funeral tomorrow) and his wife has just had to go into a care home. We've applied for power of attorney for both health and finances but currently the only way we have to pay her bills is by cheque. We got her to sign a few and sent them off but I've just been to her house and picked up a letter from barclays saying one has bounced.
She always wrote the cheques between the two of them so initially I was a bit stumped (as there's enough money in the account) but then remembered I'd seen a few signatures with only one initial, whereas she usually signs with both her first and middle name initials. Would that be enough for a cheque to bounce? If not then I really don't know why it's happened.
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Comments

  • DaveMehmetDaveMehmet
    How much was it for, the signatures are only checked if over a certain amount.
  • i_b_b_o_r_gi_b_b_o_r_g
    Cheques are still used frenchside, although a lot of places are stopping taking em
  • SOTFSOTF
    Cheques now days are one of the least secure forms of payments.

    If the bank spots unusual amounts, change in frequency or the same beneficiaries in a short space of time they'll usually bounce them for fear of fraud.
  • Off_itOff_it
    edited April 2017
    SurvivaloftheFittest said:

    Cheques now days are one of the least secure forms of payments.

    Lol, is that right?

    As opposed to, I dunno, contactless payments maybe? Where Tfl can take two payments from you just because you happen to have your oyster and bank cards in the same wallet? Less secure than that?
  • SOTFSOTF
    Off_it said:

    SurvivaloftheFittest said:

    Cheques now days are one of the least secure forms of payments.

    If the bank spots unusual amounts, change in frequency or the same beneficiaries in a short space of time they'll usually bounce them for fear of fraud.

    Lol, is that right?

    As opposed to, I dunno, contactless payments maybe? Where Tfl can take two payments from you just because you happen to have your oyster and bank cards in the same wallet? Less secure than that?
    That's not fraud though is it? That's a technology error and easy to rectify.

    You're also capped to £30 for contactless payments and are significantly more protected by direct debit guarantees, fraud protection and dispute processes.
  • Off_itOff_it
    Leeds_Addick said:

    Off_it said:

    SurvivaloftheFittest said:

    Cheques now days are one of the least secure forms of payments.

    If the bank spots unusual amounts, change in frequency or the same beneficiaries in a short space of time they'll usually bounce them for fear of fraud.

    Lol, is that right?

    As opposed to, I dunno, contactless payments maybe? Where Tfl can take two payments from you just because you happen to have your oyster and bank cards in the same wallet? Less secure than that?
    Pretty obvious that if you touch in and out with 2 cards you're gonna get charged twice?
    Except you don't know it's read two cards at once. They call it "card clash" and they're always playing a message warning you against it at the tube stations I use, like its your fault that their system can take two lots of money off you at once.

    Anyway, the point was that it's not exactly secure, is it?
  • TalalTalal
    DaveMehmet said:

    How much was it for, the signatures are only checked if over a certain amount.

    £3800 for care fees so yh I'm sure it would be checked. Just surprised it has bounced as it's her writing just (possibly as I can't be certain) only one initial.
  • Leeds_AddickLeeds_Addick
    Off_it said:

    Leeds_Addick said:

    Off_it said:

    SurvivaloftheFittest said:

    Cheques now days are one of the least secure forms of payments.

    If the bank spots unusual amounts, change in frequency or the same beneficiaries in a short space of time they'll usually bounce them for fear of fraud.

    Lol, is that right?

    As opposed to, I dunno, contactless payments maybe? Where Tfl can take two payments from you just because you happen to have your oyster and bank cards in the same wallet? Less secure than that?
    Pretty obvious that if you touch in and out with 2 cards you're gonna get charged twice?
    Except you don't know it's read two cards at once. They call it "card clash" and they're always playing a message warning you against it at the tube stations I use, like its your fault that their system can take two lots of money off you at once.

    Anyway, the point was that it's not exactly secure, is it?
    If they're always playing a message then why'd you still keep your oyster card with your bank card?

    Agreed that it may not be the most secure but considering it's capped at £30, I think the convenience outweighs the security issue.
  • eaststandmikeeaststandmike
    Talal said:

    DaveMehmet said:

    How much was it for, the signatures are only checked if over a certain amount.

    £3800 for care fees so yh I'm sure it would be checked. Just surprised it has bounced as it's her writing just (possibly as I can't be certain) only one initial.
    My mum is 93 this year and I have just had to take her to her bank to provide a new specimen signature as her signature has deteriorated with age. She had a cheque bounce a few weeks back due to this so something like leaving an initial out is not beyond reason?
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  • TalalTalal
    eaststandmike said:

    Talal said:

    DaveMehmet said:

    How much was it for, the signatures are only checked if over a certain amount.

    £3800 for care fees so yh I'm sure it would be checked. Just surprised it has bounced as it's her writing just (possibly as I can't be certain) only one initial.
    My mum is 93 this year and I have just had to take her to her bank to provide a new specimen signature as her signature has deteriorated with age. She had a cheque bounce a few weeks back due to this so something like leaving an initial out is not beyond reason?
    Ok that's actually a big help thanks, we will take her in. My only concern is that she has early stages of dementia, she can sign something but will get confused about what's happening so I'm just hoping the bank won't think we're trying to do anything dodgy.
  • eaststandmikeeaststandmike
    Talal said:

    eaststandmike said:

    Talal said:

    DaveMehmet said:

    How much was it for, the signatures are only checked if over a certain amount.

    £3800 for care fees so yh I'm sure it would be checked. Just surprised it has bounced as it's her writing just (possibly as I can't be certain) only one initial.
    My mum is 93 this year and I have just had to take her to her bank to provide a new specimen signature as her signature has deteriorated with age. She had a cheque bounce a few weeks back due to this so something like leaving an initial out is not beyond reason?
    Ok that's actually a big help thanks, we will take her in. My only concern is that she has early stages of dementia, she can sign something but will get confused about what's happening so I'm just hoping the bank won't think we're trying to do anything dodgy.
    Sadly if dementia is taking a hold you need to get that power of attorney sorted. My wife is going through this with an elderly aunt who also lives in a nursing home. It is not as straight forward as you may think if some of the problems my wife has encountered is anything to go by.

    Good luck, Mike
  • TalalTalal
    eaststandmike said:

    Talal said:

    eaststandmike said:

    Talal said:

    DaveMehmet said:

    How much was it for, the signatures are only checked if over a certain amount.

    £3800 for care fees so yh I'm sure it would be checked. Just surprised it has bounced as it's her writing just (possibly as I can't be certain) only one initial.
    My mum is 93 this year and I have just had to take her to her bank to provide a new specimen signature as her signature has deteriorated with age. She had a cheque bounce a few weeks back due to this so something like leaving an initial out is not beyond reason?
    Ok that's actually a big help thanks, we will take her in. My only concern is that she has early stages of dementia, she can sign something but will get confused about what's happening so I'm just hoping the bank won't think we're trying to do anything dodgy.
    Sadly if dementia is taking a hold you need to get that power of attorney sorted. My wife is going through this with an elderly aunt who also lives in a nursing home. It is not as straight forward as you may think if some of the problems my wife has encountered is anything to go by.

    Good luck, Mike
    Thanks. Yes it will be another 3-4 weeks before the POA is (hopefully) sorted. I'm hoping the cheque I sent to them doesn't bounce too!
  • sam3110sam3110
    Off_it said:

    Leeds_Addick said:

    Off_it said:

    SurvivaloftheFittest said:

    Cheques now days are one of the least secure forms of payments.

    If the bank spots unusual amounts, change in frequency or the same beneficiaries in a short space of time they'll usually bounce them for fear of fraud.

    Lol, is that right?

    As opposed to, I dunno, contactless payments maybe? Where Tfl can take two payments from you just because you happen to have your oyster and bank cards in the same wallet? Less secure than that?
    Pretty obvious that if you touch in and out with 2 cards you're gonna get charged twice?
    Except you don't know it's read two cards at once. They call it "card clash" and they're always playing a message warning you against it at the tube stations I use, like its your fault that their system can take two lots of money off you at once.

    Anyway, the point was that it's not exactly secure, is it?
    It is secure, it's just the person in question being a dumbass and keeping the contactless cards with the oyster cards. Oyster cards aren't registered to a name like a bank card, so of course the machine will read them both
  • Off_itOff_it
    Leeds_Addick said:

    Off_it said:

    Leeds_Addick said:

    Off_it said:

    SurvivaloftheFittest said:

    Cheques now days are one of the least secure forms of payments.

    If the bank spots unusual amounts, change in frequency or the same beneficiaries in a short space of time they'll usually bounce them for fear of fraud.

    Lol, is that right?

    As opposed to, I dunno, contactless payments maybe? Where Tfl can take two payments from you just because you happen to have your oyster and bank cards in the same wallet? Less secure than that?
    Pretty obvious that if you touch in and out with 2 cards you're gonna get charged twice?
    Except you don't know it's read two cards at once. They call it "card clash" and they're always playing a message warning you against it at the tube stations I use, like its your fault that their system can take two lots of money off you at once.

    Anyway, the point was that it's not exactly secure, is it?
    If they're always playing a message then why'd you still keep your oyster card with your bank card?

    Agreed that it may not be the most secure but considering it's capped at £30, I think the convenience outweighs the security issue.
    I don't have an Oyster card. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen though.
  • Off_itOff_it
    sam3110 said:

    Off_it said:

    Leeds_Addick said:

    Off_it said:

    SurvivaloftheFittest said:

    Cheques now days are one of the least secure forms of payments.

    If the bank spots unusual amounts, change in frequency or the same beneficiaries in a short space of time they'll usually bounce them for fear of fraud.

    Lol, is that right?

    As opposed to, I dunno, contactless payments maybe? Where Tfl can take two payments from you just because you happen to have your oyster and bank cards in the same wallet? Less secure than that?
    Pretty obvious that if you touch in and out with 2 cards you're gonna get charged twice?
    Except you don't know it's read two cards at once. They call it "card clash" and they're always playing a message warning you against it at the tube stations I use, like its your fault that their system can take two lots of money off you at once.

    Anyway, the point was that it's not exactly secure, is it?
    It is secure, it's just the person in question being a dumbass and keeping the contactless cards with the oyster cards. Oyster cards aren't registered to a name like a bank card, so of course the machine will read them both
    So it's the persons fault that the machine takes two lots of money at the same time, not a fault with the technology? Ok, fair enough.
  • golfaddickgolfaddick
    typical CL - 2 people having a spat & going off topic at the same time.
  • HuskarisHuskaris
    edited April 2017
    Off_it said:

    Leeds_Addick said:

    Off_it said:

    SurvivaloftheFittest said:

    Cheques now days are one of the least secure forms of payments.

    If the bank spots unusual amounts, change in frequency or the same beneficiaries in a short space of time they'll usually bounce them for fear of fraud.

    Lol, is that right?

    As opposed to, I dunno, contactless payments maybe? Where Tfl can take two payments from you just because you happen to have your oyster and bank cards in the same wallet? Less secure than that?
    Pretty obvious that if you touch in and out with 2 cards you're gonna get charged twice?
    Except you don't know it's read two cards at once. They call it "card clash" and they're always playing a message warning you against it at the tube stations I use, like its your fault that their system can take two lots of money off you at once.

    Anyway, the point was that it's not exactly secure, is it?
    Only if you are an idiot and slap your wallet on the reader rather than taking your card out, often meaning the cards don't get read because it can't penetrate through the wallet, or purse (women are particular offenders, largely because of the thickness of their purses) or instead reads multiple cards... I hope people like that get charged twice, they deserve it for holding me up at the gates.
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  • better red than deadbetter red than dead
    As it seems to be a joint account, has the bank frozen the account as they have found out the husband has passed away?
  • iainambleriainambler
    better red than dead said:

    As it seems to be a joint account, has the bank frozen the account as they have found out the husband has passed away?

    Joint accounts usually have conditions where one party only needs to sign. Therefore the account is unlikely to be frozen.

    It's possible that technological advances could lead the cheque to bounce. Whilst I'm not ITK, the signature could be compared with the electronic copy on file. I do know that banks use optical character recognition to read cheques as they are scanned in to deposit machines. I'd have thought it likely the same sort of technology is behind the scenes in the Payne t process.

    Did the letter specify why the payment was refused? They are usually very specific about why.

    Good luck with this. Hope it works out for your Mum okay.
  • ken from bexleyken from bexley
    Talal said:

    eaststandmike said:

    Talal said:

    eaststandmike said:

    Talal said:

    DaveMehmet said:

    How much was it for, the signatures are only checked if over a certain amount.

    £3800 for care fees so yh I'm sure it would be checked. Just surprised it has bounced as it's her writing just (possibly as I can't be certain) only one initial.
    My mum is 93 this year and I have just had to take her to her bank to provide a new specimen signature as her signature has deteriorated with age. She had a cheque bounce a few weeks back due to this so something like leaving an initial out is not beyond reason?
    Ok that's actually a big help thanks, we will take her in. My only concern is that she has early stages of dementia, she can sign something but will get confused about what's happening so I'm just hoping the bank won't think we're trying to do anything dodgy.
    Sadly if dementia is taking a hold you need to get that power of attorney sorted. My wife is going through this with an elderly aunt who also lives in a nursing home. It is not as straight forward as you may think if some of the problems my wife has encountered is anything to go by.

    Good luck, Mike
    Thanks. Yes it will be another 3-4 weeks before the POA is (hopefully) sorted. I'm hoping the cheque I sent to them doesn't bounce too!
    Had a similar issue when my late father in law passed away, a few years ago. I was slightly amazed that most of the bank staff were a little vague about this, and we had power of attorney. We went into the bank with a letter, and proof of attorney, as well as id like a passport. Once we established who we were, things were fine, We were lucky as we lived near his bank, and he had had the account for decades. When he passed away, we took the paper work in, and got the funeral expenses and things paid by the bank, but got an invoice stating who it was for. `My wife with her brothers were the executors, so nothing other than straightforward. As I say, it helped as we went into the bank, and spoke directly to one of the managers.
    One of the issues I have of banking these days, is this type of service, you do not speak to the branch itself. They gave us a business card, with a direct line, and as I say it was very easy. By The way the probate office at the time in London was not seeing 'new applications' as for some bizzare reasons during the London Olympics you could not be seen! or obtain an appointment. The Woolwich office had just closed. Again, with the right paperwork, no issues, but then it was a very straight forward probate .
  • MuttleyCAFCMuttleyCAFC
    Power of Attorney is a bit long winded, but understandably so. But it is reasonably straightforward too. My wife has for her dad who has dementia.
  • cafcfancafcfan
    Wheresmeticket? said:

    Oh shut the Fuck up. This is a thread about someone dealing with a bounced cheque and power of attorney not your sodding oyster card. Fucking CL sometimes....

    If you had one you wouldn't have to worry about the location of your ticket though.....
  • TalalTalal
    TelMc32 said:

    Sorry to hear about your great uncle @Talal

    With regard to the cheque, the likelihood is that it will have been picked out due to the change in signature. If you can take her to the branch, ask them if they can load a "variant signature". It will allow them to load a second version of her signature (so one with and one without the initials).

    The letter should have explained why the cheque was bounced. If it didn't, I'm happy to take a look at it. Just pm me and I'll give you my work email at Barclays.

    The PoA should be straight forward once you get it. The branch have a process (KIT) which they follow, if you have all the papers needed.

    Thanks Tel. The letter said 'no signature mandate'. My mum remembered someone at the care home photocopied the cheque as a receipt, it has both initials and is perfectly readable just looks like it's been written by a slightly shaky hand (she is 94 after all).
    So now I'm less convinced it's the initial that's the problem as I'm certain some cheques with both initials have gone through successfully recently.

    We will go to the bank later after the funeral and speak to them about it, maybe take her in tomorrow. What sort of ID will she need? She has no photo ID as far as I know.
  • TalalTalal
    Thanks for the advice all.
  • WheresmeticketWheresmeticket
    edited April 2017
    .
  • TelMc32TelMc32
    Talal said:

    TelMc32 said:

    Sorry to hear about your great uncle @Talal

    With regard to the cheque, the likelihood is that it will have been picked out due to the change in signature. If you can take her to the branch, ask them if they can load a "variant signature". It will allow them to load a second version of her signature (so one with and one without the initials).

    The letter should have explained why the cheque was bounced. If it didn't, I'm happy to take a look at it. Just pm me and I'll give you my work email at Barclays.

    The PoA should be straight forward once you get it. The branch have a process (KIT) which they follow, if you have all the papers needed.

    Thanks Tel. The letter said 'no signature mandate'. My mum remembered someone at the care home photocopied the cheque as a receipt, it has both initials and is perfectly readable just looks like it's been written by a slightly shaky hand (she is 94 after all).
    So now I'm less convinced it's the initial that's the problem as I'm certain some cheques with both initials have gone through successfully recently.

    We will go to the bank later after the funeral and speak to them about it, maybe take her in tomorrow. What sort of ID will she need? She has no photo ID as far as I know.
    If she has a debit card and knows her PIN, that should do it (they check the card in a reader there). Alternatively, they can ask some security questions but I appreciate this may be difficult for her.

    I'll drop you a private message.

    Tel
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