I understand why overbooking happens and why it keeps prices down. Not that it's right but airlines are on a race to the bottom. Even BA is not immune as service quality has plummetted in order to avoid price rises.
The approach needs to be more measured though. The rules ought to be changed so that people are incentivised to volunteer to be bumped to a later flight, such as vouchers for future flights, and vouchers for free food, drink and if necessary hotels at the airport.
That already happens/is meant to happy, but when we were bumped off, we heard no announcements and were refused boarding & waited 5 hours for another flight.
We should have got the £200 pp compensation as it was an EU flight, but Thomas Cook refused to give the reason as to why the plane was switched to a smaller one, causing the over capacity.
We weren't offered food vouchers (were promised didn't get).
I claimed when we got home & was in dispute for about 9 months, but they wore me down & we accepted flight vouchers with them, so booked flight to Barcelona.
I would have sued them through a NWNF solicitor, but I'd already successfully sued them 10 years previously and couldn't be arsed again.
Airlines shouldn't be allowed to obfuscate when they're dicking people about. If anything, the burden ought to be on them to prove that they did everything they could to compensate you for the inconvenience. At the very least they ought to get your signature on a dated document confirming you have been satisfied by the compensation, if not then you ought to be able to claim not only any money lost due to inconvenience but tens of thousands of pounds. If overbooking is going to be allowed to happen then airlines ought to be held fully accountable.
If a flight is overbooked it should be first booked gets priority. I always book my flights months in advance so if someone books the same flight at the last minute surely I should have preference. Having said that anyone who is overbooked for no fault of his (or her) fault of their own they deserve massive compensation from the airline concerned
I agree. But that's not the way the airlines see it. If a frequent flyer or an important corporate client wants your seat and are paying a full whack fare they are going to get your seat.
I'm convinced that's why you can't pre-book your seat on BA (and others) now until a day before the flight (unless you pay extra). This even applies to their so-called Club World seats. BA service generally has gone so far down the tubes it's right in the sewer IMO. But it's probably still better than the yank airlines.
Edited to add: I guess United are going to have to change that "fly the friendly skies" slogan now.
I'm fairly sure easyJet let you check-in 30 days in advance, and as soon as you have a seat allocated to you, it is yours and it cannot be taken away.
I was helping an elderly relative check into a Ryanair flight last week and the experience has put me off the airline in the future. These airlines usually demand you bring a printed boarding pass (or a smartphone app equivalent) or else they threaten to charge you an admin fee if you approach the airline's check-in desk without your boarding pass ready. You are also compelled to check-in days in advance to ensure you are not bumped. My relative is going on a week long trip but you can only check in for each flight four days in advance for free, or else pay a surcharge per flight for the privilege of 'early check-in'. This means that my relative was forced to pay the fee for at least the return flight because there is no way they were going to have access to a printer wherever they were going. It's an absolute travesty to treat people this way.
Flying is already a stressful enough experience given how jittery the security situation is and that airports are crawling with armed personnel and heavies ready to intercept anyone who kicks off. Airlines exploit an already confusing and ever-changing environment by charging people for peace of mind. They are basically vampires.
Ryannair actually are the master purveyors of this type of shit, their tagline should be something like 'Ryannair, we don't give a fuck'
Them and Easyjet are shithouses, I can see someone typing out now "I've used them loads and never had a problem" well wait until you do and you will then, only then, truly know what it is to hate.
As an aside when I went to New York on a Wednesday morning flight the plane was pretty empty and the very kind lady on the desk offered us a free upgrade to premium. Which I ripped their hand off for. This was with Delta and on the way back it wasn't quite as empty and ended up along from a really fat hasidic Jew who spent the whole journey either faring or being amazingly obnoxious to the cabin staff.
I understand why overbooking happens and why it keeps prices down. Not that it's right but airlines are on a race to the bottom. Even BA is not immune as service quality has plummetted in order to avoid price rises.
The approach needs to be more measured though. The rules ought to be changed so that people are incentivised to volunteer to be bumped to a later flight, such as vouchers for future flights, and vouchers for free food, drink and if necessary hotels at the airport.
That already happens/is meant to happy, but when we were bumped off, we heard no announcements and were refused boarding & waited 5 hours for another flight.
We should have got the £200 pp compensation as it was an EU flight, but Thomas Cook refused to give the reason as to why the plane was switched to a smaller one, causing the over capacity.
We weren't offered food vouchers (were promised didn't get).
I claimed when we got home & was in dispute for about 9 months, but they wore me down & we accepted flight vouchers with them, so booked flight to Barcelona.
I would have sued them through a NWNF solicitor, but I'd already successfully sued them 10 years previously and couldn't be arsed again.
Airlines shouldn't be allowed to obfuscate when they're dicking people about. If anything, the burden ought to be on them to prove that they did everything they could to compensate you for the inconvenience. At the very least they ought to get your signature on a dated document confirming you have been satisfied by the compensation, if not then you ought to be able to claim not only any money lost due to inconvenience but tens of thousands of pounds. If overbooking is going to be allowed to happen then airlines ought to be held fully accountable.
If a flight is overbooked it should be first booked gets priority. I always book my flights months in advance so if someone books the same flight at the last minute surely I should have preference. Having said that anyone who is overbooked for no fault of his (or her) fault of their own they deserve massive compensation from the airline concerned
I agree. But that's not the way the airlines see it. If a frequent flyer or an important corporate client wants your seat and are paying a full whack fare they are going to get your seat.
I'm convinced that's why you can't pre-book your seat on BA (and others) now until a day before the flight (unless you pay extra). This even applies to their so-called Club World seats. BA service generally has gone so far down the tubes it's right in the sewer IMO. But it's probably still better than the yank airlines.
Edited to add: I guess United are going to have to change that "fly the friendly skies" slogan now.
I'm fairly sure easyJet let you check-in 30 days in advance, and as soon as you have a seat allocated to you, it is yours and it cannot be taken away.
I was helping an elderly relative check into a Ryanair flight last week and the experience has put me off the airline in the future. These airlines usually demand you bring a printed boarding pass (or a smartphone app equivalent) or else they threaten to charge you an admin fee if you approach the airline's check-in desk without your boarding pass ready. You are also compelled to check-in days in advance to ensure you are not bumped. My relative is going on a week long trip but you can only check in for each flight four days in advance for free, or else pay a surcharge per flight for the privilege of 'early check-in'. This means that my relative was forced to pay the fee for at least the return flight because there is no way they were going to have access to a printer wherever they were going. It's an absolute travesty to treat people this way.
Flying is already a stressful enough experience given how jittery the security situation is and that airports are crawling with armed personnel and heavies ready to intercept anyone who kicks off. Airlines exploit an already confusing and ever-changing environment by charging people for peace of mind. They are basically vampires.
Ryannair actually are the master purveyors of this type of shit, their tagline should be something like 'Ryannair, we don't give a fuck'
Them and Easyjet are shithouses, I can see someone typing out now "I've used them loads and never had a problem" well wait until you do and you will then, only then, truly know what it is to hate.
As an aside when I went to New York on a Wednesday morning flight the plane was pretty empty and the very kind lady on the desk offered us a free upgrade to premium. Which I ripped their hand off for. This was with Delta and on the way back it wasn't quite as empty and ended up along from a really fat hasidic Jew who spent the whole journey either faring or being amazingly obnoxious to the cabin staff.
I've used Ryannair loads of times and never had a problem.
Aside from the airline, I am waiting for the security personnel to be named and shamed.... Won't take long for somebody to recognise them from the videos going round.
They and their families lives will be utterly ruined by this if there is any justice. And I won't have any sympathy for them.
Yup, sounds like justice to me. A couple of working class guys carrying out orders in order to keep their jobs and their kids fed. Absolutely justified for their wives' and kids' lives to be made a misery for actions they weren't even in there to witness, let alone take part in, by a baying mob who were completely unaffected by the incident.
I understand why overbooking happens and why it keeps prices down. Not that it's right but airlines are on a race to the bottom. Even BA is not immune as service quality has plummetted in order to avoid price rises.
The approach needs to be more measured though. The rules ought to be changed so that people are incentivised to volunteer to be bumped to a later flight, such as vouchers for future flights, and vouchers for free food, drink and if necessary hotels at the airport.
How does overbooking keep the costs down ? Surely, if you buy your ticket, the seat is paid for ? In this case, the man was sitting in his seat. Surely check in would have controlled the number of people on the plane ?
Twitter has gone crazy over this. The recordings show an assault & America being a very litigious country, are likely to get sued heavily. It is looking like they will also lose a lot of business over this with the backlash.
If a flight is overbooked it should be first booked gets priority. I always book my flights months in advance so if someone books the same flight at the last minute surely I should have preference. Having said that anyone who is overbooked for no fault of his (or her) fault of their own they deserve massive compensation from the airline concerned
I agree. But that's not the way the airlines see it. If a frequent flyer or an important corporate client wants your seat and are paying a full whack fare they are going to get your seat.
I'm convinced that's why you can't pre-book your seat on BA (and others) now until a day before the flight (unless you pay extra). This even applies to their so-called Club World seats. BA service generally has gone so far down the tubes it's right in the sewer IMO. But it's probably still better than the yank airlines.
Edited to add: I guess United are going to have to change that "fly the friendly skies" slogan now.
In small defence of BA, I must say that whereas I was on overbooked flights several times about 10 years or more ago - and they were offering fairly juicy incentives to those willing to take another flight - it has not happened at all recently, and quite often on PRG-LHR the flight appears to be 100% full. But I don't fly many other busy routes, to be fair.
What has happened here is outrageous and I am just glad my life has been such that I never had to take an internal US flight, which seems like a special kind of hell at the best of times.
I understand why overbooking happens and why it keeps prices down. Not that it's right but airlines are on a race to the bottom. Even BA is not immune as service quality has plummetted in order to avoid price rises.
The approach needs to be more measured though. The rules ought to be changed so that people are incentivised to volunteer to be bumped to a later flight, such as vouchers for future flights, and vouchers for free food, drink and if necessary hotels at the airport.
How does overbooking keep the costs down ? Surely, if you buy your ticket, the seat is paid for ? In this case, the man was sitting in his seat. Surely check in would have controlled the number of people on the plane ?
Twitter has gone crazy over this. The recordings show an assault & America being a very litigious country, are likely to get sued heavily. It is looking like they will also lose a lot of business over this with the backlash.
I understand why overbooking happens and why it keeps prices down. Not that it's right but airlines are on a race to the bottom. Even BA is not immune as service quality has plummetted in order to avoid price rises.
The approach needs to be more measured though. The rules ought to be changed so that people are incentivised to volunteer to be bumped to a later flight, such as vouchers for future flights, and vouchers for free food, drink and if necessary hotels at the airport.
They are already required to offer food and accommodation by law I think. They simply shouldn't be allowed to drag someone off. If they're overbooked then it's hard luck on the ones left behind, how could someone still in the terminal have more right to the seat than someone already on the plan?
The news story said they need to free up some seats for the flight crew, but I thought they already had their own seats?
I don't quite get how they have overbooked the flight AND issued boarding passes to the "wrong" people. Surely those with boarding passes are airside of checkin and those overbooked without seats are the last to turn up?
I may have answered myself on this whilst writing the above. It could be that they had United staff turn up who needed a seat to get back to a particular airport to start/end a shift. This makes it particularly bad - you'd have thought that the staff would be told to arrive by a certain time or else it's tough. Dragging an innocent member of the public who has paid good money for a seat off a flight in order to accomodate your own staff is truly awful.
Makes CAFC's organisational skills look almost efficient. Almost.
I understand why overbooking happens and why it keeps prices down. Not that it's right but airlines are on a race to the bottom. Even BA is not immune as service quality has plummetted in order to avoid price rises.
The approach needs to be more measured though. The rules ought to be changed so that people are incentivised to volunteer to be bumped to a later flight, such as vouchers for future flights, and vouchers for free food, drink and if necessary hotels at the airport.
They are already required to offer food and accommodation by law I think. They simply shouldn't be allowed to drag someone off. If they're overbooked then it's hard luck on the ones left behind, how could someone still in the terminal have more right to the seat than someone already on the plan?
The news story said they need to free up some seats for the flight crew, but I thought they already had their own seats?
I don't quite get how they have overbooked the flight AND issued boarding passes to the "wrong" people. Surely those with boarding passes are airside of checkin and those overbooked without seats are the last to turn up?
I may have answered myself on this whilst writing the above. It could be that they had United staff turn up who needed a seat to get back to a particular airport to start/end a shift. This makes it particularly bad - you'd have thought that the staff would be told to arrive by a certain time or else it's tough. Dragging an innocent member of the public who has paid good money for a seat off a flight in order to accomodate your own staff is truly awful.
Makes CAFC's organisational skills look almost efficient. Almost.
Charlton are guilty of triple under selling, i.e in some cases they have failed to sell tickets for the same seat to upwards of three different people.
Aside from the airline, I am waiting for the security personnel to be named and shamed.... Won't take long for somebody to recognise them from the videos going round.
They and their families lives will be utterly ruined by this if there is any justice. And I won't have any sympathy for them.
Yup, sounds like justice to me. A couple of working class guys carrying out orders in order to keep their jobs and their kids fed. Absolutely justified for their wives' and kids' lives to be made a misery for actions they weren't even in there to witness, let alone take part in, by a baying mob who were completely unaffected by the incident.
What leaving a 60 year old guy with a bloody face (video evidence of that) and showing how hard you are by assaulting an old guy is all about 'keeping their kids fed'.
Bullshit - they have a uniform on and think that gives them the right to assault someone.
Chicago Tribune reporting that one of them has now been suspended pending investigation. If he does lose his job as looks likely - that to me is justice. As another person said - surely whilst he obviously lacks intelligence, he and his fellow thugs must have taken a minute to look at what was happening and think 'this isn't right'.
Remains to be seen whether he was carrying out orders, or whether (as is my gut feel) he quite clearly acted over the top by essentially assaulting a 60 year old man.
Nothing wrong with Easyjet. Pay a bit extra to get a seat of your choice and print off your boarding pass at least 3 weeks in advance or take pot luck at the airport to save £3:99.Ryanair different animal. Remember the cost of your ticket.
Aside from the airline, I am waiting for the security personnel to be named and shamed.... Won't take long for somebody to recognise them from the videos going round.
They and their families lives will be utterly ruined by this if there is any justice. And I won't have any sympathy for them.
Yup, sounds like justice to me. A couple of working class guys carrying out orders in order to keep their jobs and their kids fed. Absolutely justified for their wives' and kids' lives to be made a misery for actions they weren't even in there to witness, let alone take part in, by a baying mob who were completely unaffected by the incident.
What leaving a 60 year old guy with a bloody face (video evidence of that) and showing how hard you are by assaulting an old guy is all about 'keeping their kids fed'.
Bullshit - they have a uniform on and think that gives them the right to assault someone.
Chicago Tribune reporting that one of them has now been suspended pending investigation. If he does lose his job as looks likely - that to me is justice. As another person said - surely whilst he obviously lacks intelligence, he and his fellow thugs must have taken a minute to look at what was happening and think 'this isn't right'.
Remains to be seen whether he was carrying out orders, or whether (as is my gut feel) he quite clearly acted over the top by essentially assaulting a 60 year old man.
Your previous post didn't suggest they should lose their jobs, it suggested that it would be justice if their families lives were ruined.
Aside from the airline, I am waiting for the security personnel to be named and shamed.... Won't take long for somebody to recognise them from the videos going round.
They and their families lives will be utterly ruined by this if there is any justice. And I won't have any sympathy for them.
Yup, sounds like justice to me. A couple of working class guys carrying out orders in order to keep their jobs and their kids fed. Absolutely justified for their wives' and kids' lives to be made a misery for actions they weren't even in there to witness, let alone take part in, by a baying mob who were completely unaffected by the incident.
What leaving a 60 year old guy with a bloody face (video evidence of that) and showing how hard you are by assaulting an old guy is all about 'keeping their kids fed'.
Bullshit - they have a uniform on and think that gives them the right to assault someone.
Chicago Tribune reporting that one of them has now been suspended pending investigation. If he does lose his job as looks likely - that to me is justice. As another person said - surely whilst he obviously lacks intelligence, he and his fellow thugs must have taken a minute to look at what was happening and think 'this isn't right'.
Remains to be seen whether he was carrying out orders, or whether (as is my gut feel) he quite clearly acted over the top by essentially assaulting a 60 year old man.
Your previous post didn't suggest they should lose their jobs, it suggested that it would be justice if their families lives were ruined.
By losing their jobs and essentially being unemployable their families lives probably will be ruined. Probably didn't word it in the best way.
Justice is that the thug will have to live with that on his conscience for the rest of his life - that he has essentially failed his family and fucked up the financial security for his children (if he has any). All in the cause of trying to look well ard.
To add to this, a man was forcefully removed from a plane that he had a ticket for because United didn't make a mistake, but got caught out in a practice of greed. And this man, a doctor, was the one who was punished.
The CEO will have to step down for this but not after a lot of shit has rolled down hill
But WE know a CEO who'd be happy to step up to such a job, gobbles.
I'll get United to email her an application form.
She could tell the customers that they are fans. And, if they went for out to restaurant and they got thrown out during their meal because the restaurant was double booked, they would not complain if they were given a free dessert next time.
They should have an auction with all the passengers for how much money they want to catch the next flight. If there are 200 passengers, and people know they are competing with each other and the fact that an extra day won't be a big deal for some, I'm sure they will get takers at a reasonable price!
To add to this, a man was forcefully removed from a plane that he had a ticket for because United didn't make a mistake, but got caught out in a practice of greed. And this man, a doctor, was the one who was punished.
Theres no justification for over booking....if a plane has 200 seats for sale it should only sell 200 seats..no more.
If someone doesnt turn up they can have a reserve list and would be paid extra anyway, as you dont get your money back if you dont turn up.
But you can get your money back. The issue, which I agree the airlines could solve at a stroke, is full fare (that is the really profitable) refundable tickets. People travelling for business, particularly on the US domestic flights can and do buy multiple tickets. The reason? They hope their meeting will end early, have a scheduled end-time for it but are concerned that it might over-run. So they buy three tickets for three different flights, knowing they will only use one of them and can get a full refund on the other two. The airlines obviously know about this and sell more tickets than they have seats. Usually their algorithms get it right. Sometimes they don't. The airlines could stop this overnight by losing the fully flexible fare. BUT that would make air travel much more expensive for the rest of us as they would have to put up prices dramatically for leisure travellers to compensate for the loss of their golden goose. Or go bust (yet again in the case of most US airlines).
I have witnessed this many times in the US when the plane is ready to leave and there are still unseated passengers. The shenanigans that go on to persuade passengers to take a later flight is usually entertaining as the bidding increases. I remember a flight from New York on American Airlines I think, where the bidding had gone to a night in a hotel, dinner at a posh restaurant and taxis everywhere. With no-one budging and them in danger of losing their slot, they offered to fly the volunteers home on Concorde. Half the hands on the plane went up.
Happened with me, saved up my pennies and decided to book a premium economy flight transatlantic to LA, seeing friends in SD. Pre-booked my seat (paid extra) for that then checked-in online. Got to the airport and was told there was a problem with my seat, had to be given to someone else.
Needless to say, angry. Was "what's the point about reserving, etc., when you'll give away the seat." Manager said "see what I can do." Ended up on the same flight but first class...
It's now ruined flying for me, because no way in hell I can afford that, and for me now economy sucks!
If the doctor reads the small print of his ticket he will realise the airline was fully within its rights - he should be grateful the security guys were so restrained.
As a United Airlines shareholder, I am pleased to see them maximising value in this way. He probably had the audacity to eat the complimentary peanuts too.
I understand why overbooking happens and why it keeps prices down. Not that it's right but airlines are on a race to the bottom. Even BA is not immune as service quality has plummetted in order to avoid price rises.
The approach needs to be more measured though. The rules ought to be changed so that people are incentivised to volunteer to be bumped to a later flight, such as vouchers for future flights, and vouchers for free food, drink and if necessary hotels at the airport.
How does overbooking keep the costs down ? Surely, if you buy your ticket, the seat is paid for ? In this case, the man was sitting in his seat. Surely check in would have controlled the number of people on the plane ?
Twitter has gone crazy over this. The recordings show an assault & America being a very litigious country, are likely to get sued heavily. It is looking like they will also lose a lot of business over this with the backlash.
Thanks @Fiiish That's a really clear explanation. It would be interesting to know the percentage United Airlines use for no shows. They are going to have look at situations where everybody shows up. Dragging a passenger randomly off the flight, is disastrous PR for their business & totally wrong.
What I don't understand is to why they gave boarding cards out to too many people, surely they are able to control how many people get on the plane. If they need to get their own staff somewhere then that needs to be done before they seat passengers.
I would imagine their will be a flurry of his patients lining up to sue the airline due to the stress and emotional damage caused by them not being able to see their doctor
Comments
Them and Easyjet are shithouses, I can see someone typing out now "I've used them loads and never had a problem" well wait until you do and you will then, only then, truly know what it is to hate.
As an aside when I went to New York on a Wednesday morning flight the plane was pretty empty and the very kind lady on the desk offered us a free upgrade to premium. Which I ripped their hand off for. This was with Delta and on the way back it wasn't quite as empty and ended up along from a really fat hasidic Jew who spent the whole journey either faring or being amazingly obnoxious to the cabin staff.
Twitter has gone crazy over this. The recordings show an assault & America being a very litigious country, are likely to get sued heavily. It is looking like they will also lose a lot of business over this with the backlash.
What has happened here is outrageous and I am just glad my life has been such that I never had to take an internal US flight, which seems like a special kind of hell at the best of times.
I may have answered myself on this whilst writing the above. It could be that they had United staff turn up who needed a seat to get back to a particular airport to start/end a shift. This makes it particularly bad - you'd have thought that the staff would be told to arrive by a certain time or else it's tough. Dragging an innocent member of the public who has paid good money for a seat off a flight in order to accomodate your own staff is truly awful.
Makes CAFC's organisational skills look almost efficient. Almost.
Bullshit - they have a uniform on and think that gives them the right to assault someone.
Chicago Tribune reporting that one of them has now been suspended pending investigation. If he does lose his job as looks likely - that to me is justice. As another person said - surely whilst he obviously lacks intelligence, he and his fellow thugs must have taken a minute to look at what was happening and think 'this isn't right'.
Remains to be seen whether he was carrying out orders, or whether (as is my gut feel) he quite clearly acted over the top by essentially assaulting a 60 year old man.
Justice is that the thug will have to live with that on his conscience for the rest of his life - that he has essentially failed his family and fucked up the financial security for his children (if he has any). All in the cause of trying to look well ard.
To add to this, a man was forcefully removed from a plane that he had a ticket for because United didn't make a mistake, but got caught out in a practice of greed. And this man, a doctor, was the one who was punished.
If someone doesnt turn up they can have a reserve list and would be paid extra anyway, as you dont get your money back if you dont turn up.
Imagine being on that flight and your kids observing that.
Hopefully everyone on that flight sues the airline for some form of distress and gets a fair payout.
The issue, which I agree the airlines could solve at a stroke, is full fare (that is the really profitable) refundable tickets. People travelling for business, particularly on the US domestic flights can and do buy multiple tickets. The reason? They hope their meeting will end early, have a scheduled end-time for it but are concerned that it might over-run. So they buy three tickets for three different flights, knowing they will only use one of them and can get a full refund on the other two.
The airlines obviously know about this and sell more tickets than they have seats. Usually their algorithms get it right. Sometimes they don't.
The airlines could stop this overnight by losing the fully flexible fare. BUT that would make air travel much more expensive for the rest of us as they would have to put up prices dramatically for leisure travellers to compensate for the loss of their golden goose. Or go bust (yet again in the case of most US airlines).
Happened with me, saved up my pennies and decided to book a premium economy flight transatlantic to LA, seeing friends in SD. Pre-booked my seat (paid extra) for that then checked-in online. Got to the airport and was told there was a problem with my seat, had to be given to someone else.
Needless to say, angry. Was "what's the point about reserving, etc., when you'll give away the seat." Manager said "see what I can do." Ended up on the same flight but first class...
It's now ruined flying for me, because no way in hell I can afford that, and for me now economy sucks!
As a United Airlines shareholder, I am pleased to see them maximising value in this way. He probably had the audacity to eat the complimentary peanuts too.
What I don't understand is to why they gave boarding cards out to too many people, surely they are able to control how many people get on the plane. If they need to get their own staff somewhere then that needs to be done before they seat passengers.