Any deal that separates the ownership of club and ground is not a good one. I am surprised by some of the people on here who seem willing to accept this scenario. Palace only survived because when the business went bust the property owners did too. They were very lucky. There was no one to buy just the business, not even Parish and co wanted to touch that. If the property company were not also bust there would now be flats on Selhurst and no more Palace.
I expect this Consortium would have had to show Duchatalet proof of their ability to match his asking price for the Club - whether or not it includes The Valley. If they don't have the funds, he may as well talk to me about selling the Club.
My understanding is that this Consortium are seeking further backing to be able to invest into the Club to realistically fulfil the ambitions stated within their five year plan.
The promise of fantastic returns on your investment once lil' ole Charlton get to the Premiership is surely worth the gamble of your spare Aussie Dollars?
I'm not sure that the fundraising hasn't already been completed. If you read the Mail article, it's clearly quoting in part from the Australian Football Consortium website. That website states the fundraising was due to be done in March. As we are now middle April, it should be complete.
The problem that some people have is that whilst Duchatelet is killing us, they think we are safe under his wing because he is loaded. I focus on the killing us bit. The situation of being totally reliant on a mad man is perilous in the extreme. The damage that is being done to the club in terms of losing fans it took years to build up is immense. We have become a very sick patient under Duchatelet's twisted care.
Yes, tearing ourselves away from his malevolent grip carries it's own risks, but it has to be done. And sooner rather than later, before it is too late! I think everybody has their limits. I have reset my optimism a few times under the current regime. We just need two or three of the right players in the next window etc... It has dawned on me however, that the next window will always be poor and if you keep getting kicked in the teeth, at some point you come to the conclusion that nothing is going to change. Death by Duchatelet is one by a thousand cuts.
Now there is a point were everybody will realise that this regime just haven't got a clue. The vast majority have passed it. Some are saying, I am not happy, but I am just giving them the summer. It is like the battered wife giving her bastard husband another chance. He promises not to do it again, seems genuine, and she believes him whilst everybody else knows that a leopard never changes his spots. I knew the winter window would be a poor one and given that we had just appointed a new manager, that shouldn't have been the case! I am critical of aspects of Robinson's performance, but I don't believe he has been properly backed. It is no good saying we were trying to spend this or that! It is like giving your kid a colouring book for Christmas, but telling them you tried to get them a Playstation 4, but they were sold out! You find an alternative.
If we continue like this we will have fewer and fewer fans, and the Valley with masses of empty seats is a pretty depressing place to watch your football. We will be too far gone to recover, when Duchatelet decides to call it a day! It is depressing now, but it can and will get worse. I recall the days, not so very long ago when it was buzzing, the days when the top clubs in the country came here knowing they had a real battle on their hands. The days wen Sir Alex respectfully said it was one of the most intimdating places to visit.
Like the institionalised patient, locked in the sanitarium for years, when potential rescurers are on the horizon, rather than run to them, they show caution. You can always fill in the gaps in your knowledge and replace those with negative scenarios. They give you an excuse to carry on dying in comfort! But what we have to do is get out of the grip of the evil mad man that is suffocating us. Look around us with optimism, and fight the fight like we did after we nearly went out of business and when we lost our beloved Valley. All together, all with an eye on continuous improvement. The owners, the manager, the players, the fans, the tea lady! The Australians can't buy us soon enough as far as I am concerned, and when they do, I will embrace them and do everything I can, however small, to bring the good days back. If you are too fightened to fail, you will never succeed!
Waltzing Matilda, walting Matilda, who'll come a watzing Matilda with me? Let's sing this and let them know we want them,
Your certainly right Duchatelet is killing the club.
It doesn't matter if you have only just woken up and smelt the coffee or tasted it after the first season RD took over, we all need to try and take stock of what Duchatelet is leaving us with on his way out. There is no good reason I can see to trust the bloke. Another regime coming in with yet another half baked idea needs to be interrogated, regardless of how much we want Roly out.
If the Aussies, as has been reported are trying to buy the club and leasing the ground rather than retaining the freehold. I think this would leave the club vulnerable regardless of how it is dressed up and Duchatelet would still have a hold over the club.
Your right there has been serious damage done to the fan base, but another owner to follow this having a distorted best interest for the future could be catastrophic.
If the club was bought lock stock and barrel to get Duchatelet completely out of the picture and things didn't work out at least the door could open for a consortium that were completely focused on the best for CAFC without external visions conflicting against it.
It's bad enough that Duchatelet destroyed the hard work of everybody who built that League One winning team in just a matter of months. Now he wants to destroy all the years of hard work and sacrifice put in by so many people who brought the club back to the Valley.
To consider selling the football club but keeping his grasping hands on the Valley, either Roland really has no clue what the Valley really means to Charlton fans or he knows very well what it means and he is a truly vicious, greedy individual.
Sounds like Meire sending a message to her master.
Possibly there are confidentiality clauses in the negotiations. It would suit Roland & co. that any sale was announced after the last game of the season. Imagine the embarrassment for Katie as we party at the Swindon game.
Rolands only escape plan was redeveloping the Valley for housing while CAFC play at a smaller ground elsewhere. When I raised this suspicion a few years back, folk on here said it was nonsense and that Greenwich would never allow it. Truth is, if CAFC were still playing elsewhere in the borough - LBG would be all for it.
Bexley just announced plans to build 30,000 new homes in their borough, and LBG are under huge pressure to provide more homes.
If we ever get the chance to buy the actual pitch (in small portions) like Chelsea fans did, then we should jump at the chance. Sadly, this is unlikely to happen and the Valley will always be at risk - even though we once bought shares in CAFC to keep it safe.
Steady on Eirik.......where have these changes been mentioned by an AFC spokesperson? And anyway, there's a long way to go before the deal is done and those "possibilities " become reality. I do of course respect your far better knowledge of Australian sporting ethos and we should perhaps be mindful of this possible mind set further down the line; should this deal go through.
Is there a long way before the deal is done? Haven't seen any mention of timescales so would be interested to know from those with better knowledge of these things, how long it takes when a bidder has exclusivity.
Agree the ideal would be to sell the valley with the rest of the club. But the leaseback might work for the consortium if the long term funding for a PL challenge is an issue as I imagine it would be. None of us have seen the details and that's where the finer points of the leasing contract will be. If its at a 'reasonable' rate and there is an option to purchase on reaching the PL or after 5 years (whichever comes first) then it would probably work. Don't think a purchaser would want a long term, non-negotiable, lease with Duchatelet or anyone else.
Duchatelet will likely expect a standard commercial rent on the Valley that is unlikely to do Charlton football club or incoming owners any favours. Unless a significant amount of funds are generated from investors with deep pockets, the rent charged will undermine team building as will spending 20m for the hollowed out shell of the club.
With Duchatelet the bottom line is getting his money back. Duchatelet does not care about Charlton football team or its supporters. He would sell the Valley in a heartbeat if he could. There would be difficulties in developing the site. Many unfavourable looking sites in London are developed all the time.
Separation of the club & stadium carries huge risks. Duchatelet would have no problem evicting Charlton from the site if the Australians cash ran out. Jimenez & Slater's situation at Charlton was going well until Kevin Cash withdrew his support.
As Rick Everett says Voice in the Valley, the devil is in the detail. Having the football side of things not run by professional incompetents would give the club a chance to succeed on the field.
I am highly sceptical about the Australian approach & need a lot of convincing that this is a good outcome. IMO, any continued Roland Duchatelet involvement at Charlton Athletic puts a huge negative shadow on the Australian deal.
Brilliant news that Duchatelet is looking to sell. It is best for everyone that Duchatelet plays no further part at Charlton.
Sounds like Meire sending a message to her master.
"Unhelpful" means "damn, we didn't want this to leak as we were hoping to sell before anyone knew but now we've got to keep Meire away from any microphones for even longer"
So if CAFC didn't leak the story who did and why ? Unless it wasn't leaked by either party.
First the 'Rumours he might be looking to sell' thread closed and now the SE7 Valiants one has gone. Whatever happens now, life will never be the same again.
I liked the bit that they are looking to acquire an under-performing club. We fit the bill well on that one unless Leyton Orient are an alternative choice.
Duchatelet does not care about Charlton football team or its supporters.
I had heard that he was a Charlton fan.
Duchatelet is a fan & supporter of his own wallet. Also his Turing level genius to socially engineer society. In reality, he likes to play a large scale version of FIFA football manager. Unfortunately (for real life, club & supporters) he is rubbish at it.
It looks to me like a 5 year plan to get to the PL and nothing more. In which case taking on the ownership of The Valley is a needless overhead. Whilst we (almost) all can see the benefits of RD/KM being removed from the stewardship of our club, a solution that concentrates solely on the football side is only half a solution, albeit the most important half ! The AFC blurb is all about a return on investment and nothing about rebuilding our club. Let's hope, if the deal goes through, that is high on their agenda.
Question - maybe @Alwaysneil knows. Who owns Stayen, RD or the council? The council certainly own Jena's ground, but RD is involved in a grand plan with them to develop it on the Stayen model. What about Alcorcon, who owns their ground? (@CharltonMadrid, might you know?) I will check Ujpest.
I am starting to wonder if RD views the standard British situation of a club owning its ground as another silly anachronism that he needs to break down as part of his vision for profitability. So for him it might be entirely logical for him to keep the Valley, and develop it Stayen style.
But what would be the value of Charlton without the real estate? Based on its recent trading results, I would say £1. RD bought the whole thing, in the Championship, including the real estate for £14m.
Of course the stadium lease model can work. RD will point out it is normal on the continent. It is certainly wrking for West Ham, financially. But over there, the landlord is the taxpayer, represented by incompetent public officials, while the club is represented by razor sharp business people. I can't see RD being a benign landlord.
Incidentally I was reading about Coventry and SISU last night. It seems the Council asking price for rent of the Ricoh originally was 100k per month. Unclear who paid matchday overheads, but doubt the Council did. So RD would use that, rather than the Olympic Stadium, as a rental benchmark, I reckon.
This seems to be someone's fantasy thats got a bit out of hand. A club the other side of the world to blood young Aussies, a team a million miles away from the PL and they wanna pay 20m without The Valley.
The more I think about it the more ridiculous it seems. Tell 'em they're dreamin.
Rolands only escape plan was redeveloping the Valley for housing while CAFC play at a smaller ground elsewhere. When I raised this suspicion a few years back, folk on here said it was nonsense and that Greenwich would never allow it. Truth is, if CAFC were still playing elsewhere in the borough - LBG would be all for it.
Bexley just announced plans to build 30,000 new homes in their borough, and LBG are under huge pressure to provide more homes.
If we ever get the chance to buy the actual pitch (in small portions) like Chelsea fans did, then we should jump at the chance. Sadly, this is unlikely to happen and the Valley will always be at risk - even though we once bought shares in CAFC to keep it safe.
I believe it is still nonsense. No one is talking about redeveloping The Valley for housing.
You're forgetting the significant number of South African youngsters that we scouted and brought to the club over a period of many years. Not one dud amongst any of them......though I agree we must 'always' be on the lookout for local prospects.
But we had a proper scouting back then. Lots of Seeds all over the place.
Question - maybe @Alwaysneil knows. Who owns Stayen, RD or the council? The council certainly own Jena's ground, but RD is involved in a grand plan with them to develop it on the Stayen model. What about Alcorcon, who owns their ground? (@CharltonMadrid, might you know?) I will check Ujpest.
I am starting to wonder if RD views the standard British situation of a club owning its ground as another silly anachronism that he needs to break down as part of his vision for profitability. So for him it might be entirely logical for him to keep the Valley, and develop it Stayen style.
But what would be the value of Charlton without the real estate? Based on its recent trading results, I would say £1. RD bought the whole thing, in the Championship, including the real estate for £14m.
Of course the stadium lease model can work. RD will point out it is normal on the continent. It is certainly wrking for West Ham, financially. But over there, the landlord is the taxpayer, represented by incompetent public officials, while the club is represented by razor sharp business people. I can't see RD being a benign landlord.
Incidentally I was reading about Coventry and SISU last night. It seems the Council asking price for rent of the Ricoh originally was 100k per month. Unclear who paid matchday overheads, but doubt the Council did. So RD would use that, rather than the Olympic Stadium, as a rental benchmark, I reckon.
@big in brasov knows more about this than me. I seem to remember Duchatelet split off the stadium ownership of Sint Truiden from the club. He had a load of debts outstanding from the club (sound familiar?) so insisted on not only on the revenue from the restaurant, hotel etc for the property part but also around EUR 2 per match ticket sold and also a share of the TV money.
This is my concern with rumours that the club and the ground could be separated, Duchatelet has form.
Just hope if we are to be acquired by AFC Ltd, they manage to negotiate a decent deal here.
One of the strengths of CAFC, in periods of difficulty, has always been that the club owned the Valley and SL. It would be folly of the greatest magnitude to split the club from its main assets which are its real estate. I hate the current owners and will not return to Valley while they own the club or the ground but I would rather have them owners of the whole than just owners of the grounds, this Aussie deal is not right for CAFC if they do not own the grounds and especially if RD keeps that ownership.
Question - maybe @Alwaysneil knows. Who owns Stayen, RD or the council? The council certainly own Jena's ground, but RD is involved in a grand plan with them to develop it on the Stayen model. What about Alcorcon, who owns their ground? (@CharltonMadrid, might you know?) I will check Ujpest.
I am starting to wonder if RD views the standard British situation of a club owning its ground as another silly anachronism that he needs to break down as part of his vision for profitability. So for him it might be entirely logical for him to keep the Valley, and develop it Stayen style.
But what would be the value of Charlton without the real estate? Based on its recent trading results, I would say £1. RD bought the whole thing, in the Championship, including the real estate for £14m.
Of course the stadium lease model can work. RD will point out it is normal on the continent. It is certainly wrking for West Ham, financially. But over there, the landlord is the taxpayer, represented by incompetent public officials, while the club is represented by razor sharp business people. I can't see RD being a benign landlord.
Incidentally I was reading about Coventry and SISU last night. It seems the Council asking price for rent of the Ricoh originally was 100k per month. Unclear who paid matchday overheads, but doubt the Council did. So RD would use that, rather than the Olympic Stadium, as a rental benchmark, I reckon.
@big in brasov knows more about this than me. I seem to remember Duchatelet split off the stadium ownership of Sint Truiden from the club. He had a load of debts outstanding from the club (sound familiar?) so insisted on not only on the revenue from the restaurant, hotel etc for the property part but also around EUR 2 per match ticket sold and also a share of the TV money.
This is my concern with rumours that the club and the ground could be separated, Duchatelet has form.
Just hope if we are to be acquired by AFC Ltd, they manage to negotiate a decent deal here.
This sounds right to me and I think it's a big danger. I'd like to add that if RD stiffs Charlton, it's bugger all to do with CARD. Whether he sells this year or in five like he said he always would, he'll always be a greedy businessman, trying to make more money by hook or by crook.
Rolands only escape plan was redeveloping the Valley for housing while CAFC play at a smaller ground elsewhere. When I raised this suspicion a few years back, folk on here said it was nonsense and that Greenwich would never allow it. Truth is, if CAFC were still playing elsewhere in the borough - LBG would be all for it.
Bexley just announced plans to build 30,000 new homes in their borough, and LBG are under huge pressure to provide more homes.
If we ever get the chance to buy the actual pitch (in small portions) like Chelsea fans did, then we should jump at the chance. Sadly, this is unlikely to happen and the Valley will always be at risk - even though we once bought shares in CAFC to keep it safe.
I believe it is still nonsense. No one is talking about redeveloping The Valley for housing.
Maybe not publicly, I wouldn't have thought this would have gone under Roland's radar. Although our dear leaders are fanatical Charlton supporters, (I heard her say this first hand), Roland, is a rich bastard and rich bastards don't stay rich by giving it away. Any piece of land in London has potential to be built on and the Valley is certainly no exception, in fact, I'd say potentially prime. Despite what people may say and think, (access, crowding,etc), building on that plot would be a developers dream. Flats and houses all over it. I never thought, 20 years ago, the area around lewisham station would be so tightly packed with flats where all what was there was industrial units and scrap yards but it's happened. Would there be much opposition from the locals to this idea? I doubt it. The council would cave in as soon as Roland mentioned court. We, us, the supporters fought lonand hard for the Valley, we shouldn't let it go again without so much as a whimper.
Comments
It doesn't matter if you have only just woken up and smelt the coffee or tasted it after the first season RD took over, we all need to try and take stock of what Duchatelet is leaving us with on his way out. There is no good reason I can see to trust the bloke. Another regime coming in with yet another half baked idea needs to be interrogated, regardless of how much we want Roly out.
If the Aussies, as has been reported are trying to buy the club and leasing the ground rather than retaining the freehold. I think this would leave the club vulnerable regardless of how it is dressed up and Duchatelet would still have a hold over the club.
Your right there has been serious damage done to the fan base, but another owner to follow this having a distorted best interest for the future could be catastrophic.
If the club was bought lock stock and barrel to get Duchatelet completely out of the picture and things didn't work out at least the door could open for a consortium that were completely focused on the best for CAFC without external visions conflicting against it.
To consider selling the football club but keeping his grasping hands on the Valley, either Roland really has no clue what the Valley really means to Charlton fans or he knows very well what it means and he is a truly vicious, greedy individual.
Imagine the embarrassment for Katie as we party at the Swindon game.
When I raised this suspicion a few years back, folk on here said it was nonsense and that Greenwich would never allow it. Truth is, if CAFC were still playing elsewhere in the borough - LBG would be all for it.
Bexley just announced plans to build 30,000 new homes in their borough, and LBG are under huge pressure to provide more homes.
If we ever get the chance to buy the actual pitch (in small portions) like Chelsea fans did, then we should jump at the chance. Sadly, this is unlikely to happen and the Valley will always be at risk - even though we once bought shares in CAFC to keep it safe.
spokesperson?
And anyway, there's a long way to go before the deal is done and those "possibilities " become reality.
I do of course respect your far better knowledge of Australian sporting ethos and we should perhaps be mindful of this possible mind set further down the line; should this deal go through.
Haven't seen any mention of timescales so would be interested to know from those with better knowledge of these things, how long it takes when a bidder has exclusivity.
With Duchatelet the bottom line is getting his money back. Duchatelet does not care about Charlton football team or its supporters. He would sell the Valley in a heartbeat if he could. There would be difficulties in developing the site. Many unfavourable looking sites in London are developed all the time.
Separation of the club & stadium carries huge risks. Duchatelet would have no problem evicting Charlton from the site if the Australians cash ran out. Jimenez & Slater's situation at Charlton was going well until Kevin Cash withdrew his support.
As Rick Everett says Voice in the Valley, the devil is in the detail. Having the football side of things not run by professional incompetents would give the club a chance to succeed on the field.
I am highly sceptical about the Australian approach & need a lot of convincing that this is a good outcome. IMO, any continued Roland Duchatelet involvement at Charlton Athletic puts a huge negative shadow on the Australian deal.
Brilliant news that Duchatelet is looking to sell. It is best for everyone that Duchatelet plays no further part at Charlton.
Whatever happens now, life will never be the same again.
I am starting to wonder if RD views the standard British situation of a club owning its ground as another silly anachronism that he needs to break down as part of his vision for profitability. So for him it might be entirely logical for him to keep the Valley, and develop it Stayen style.
But what would be the value of Charlton without the real estate? Based on its recent trading results, I would say £1. RD bought the whole thing, in the Championship, including the real estate for £14m.
Of course the stadium lease model can work. RD will point out it is normal on the continent. It is certainly wrking for West Ham, financially. But over there, the landlord is the taxpayer, represented by incompetent public officials, while the club is represented by razor sharp business people. I can't see RD being a benign landlord.
Incidentally I was reading about Coventry and SISU last night. It seems the Council asking price for rent of the Ricoh originally was 100k per month. Unclear who paid matchday overheads, but doubt the Council did. So RD would use that, rather than the Olympic Stadium, as a rental benchmark, I reckon.
The more I think about it the more ridiculous it seems. Tell 'em they're dreamin.
This is my concern with rumours that the club and the ground could be separated, Duchatelet has form.
Just hope if we are to be acquired by AFC Ltd, they manage to negotiate a decent deal here.
I hate the current owners and will not return to Valley while they own the club or the ground but I would rather have them owners of the whole than just owners of the grounds, this Aussie deal is not right for CAFC if they do not own the grounds and especially if RD keeps that ownership.
Any piece of land in London has potential to be built on and the Valley is certainly no exception, in fact, I'd say potentially prime. Despite what people may say and think, (access, crowding,etc), building on that plot would be a developers dream. Flats and houses all over it. I never thought, 20 years ago, the area around lewisham station would be so tightly packed with flats where all what was there was industrial units and scrap yards but it's happened. Would there be much opposition from the locals to this idea? I doubt it. The council would cave in as soon as Roland mentioned court.
We, us, the supporters fought lonand hard for the Valley, we shouldn't let it go again without so much as a whimper.
http://talksport.com/football/listen-ex-australia-international-mark-schwarzer-responds-charlton-athletic-takeover
Nothing I've read suggests the ground would be excluded from the deal.