As I said before food banks are a national disgrace, and anyone using them should be a cause for criticism, but care should be taken when using emotive accusations.
Except in the evidence from the RCN to the NHS pay review board in the link, no.
As I said before food banks are a national disgrace, and anyone using them should be a cause for criticism, but care should be taken when using emotive accusations.
Except in the evidence from the RCN to the NHS pay review board in the link, no.
Except it's not evidence, is it? HCA's are not nurses. Try searching Nursing Times like I did too. Trainee nurses are also not nurses. Interesting blind 'likes' by people who haven't looked closely enough.
Michelle Murray, a single mum of four from Wigan who has been an NHS nurse for 16 years and visited a food bank for the first time this month.
Danielle Tiplady, a nurse: "As a nurse, I see my colleagues go to food banks because of low pay".
Marina Down, 23, a single mum in London training to become a nurse, says her lowest point came when she was forced to visit a food bank with her daughter.
Names and details. Is this evidence enough?
No, it isnt. So one actual case (a single mum of 4), one trainee(so, not a nurse) and one bit of hear say. Out of what, 315,000 UK nurses? So, sorry to disappoint you and your followers who think it is enough evidence, but it's not really, is it?
Edit 1 - in checking how many I was surprised by these facts on the NHS site There were 18,432 more NHS nurses in 2014 compared to ten years earlier. The number has increased by an annual average of 0.5 per cent over that period. There were 5,729 more GPs and 1,688 more practice nurses employed by GPs in 2014 than ten years earlier.
Edit 2 - The single mum of 4 has actually just gone on to part time working! From the BBC: ''Murray, whose children are aged 6, 8, 13, and 19, said she had seen her monthly salary drop by £800 after switching to part-time outpatient work''
Whilst the number of nurses has increased as you say on average by 0.5% per annum, the population has increased by an average of 0.7% per annum, meaning the number of nurses per head of population has dropped.
Like many of the tory claims of improvements or increases, they haven't kept pace with inflation or population growth and therefore we are measurable worse off in a direct comparison.
To paraphrase Mrs May, austerity means austerity, it's bizarre, to say the at least, to try and claim both increased resources and austerity at the same time, and analysis shows that it's actually austerity light, i.e. cutting of services without any of the fiscal benefits austerity is supposed to produce.
I heard Michael Gove on the wireless this evening, going on about the Tory manifesto. You could almost smell his desire to get back in coming out of the speakers, despite his denials. 'I don't expect' (promotion) baloney. Is there a breed of slug with chameleon features? At least Diane Abbott is consistent with her uselessness, Gove is so slimy and obsequious he makes Abbott seem positively normal...or at least on one part of the spectrum of normality.
He is an unusual chap for sure but despite appearances he had a pretty tough upbringing.
So. The Tory manifesto. I leave care with nothing, and finally pay off my mortgage a month ago. I am getting on towards the years of dementia and such like, and the home I've spent all my life getting will be used to pay for my (probably inevitable) years of care. On the surface it seems reasonable enough until you realise that assisted suicide is illegal.
The Tory Manifesto shows that the Conservative Party thinks the normal rules of politics that apply to others don't apply to them. It is completely lacking any macroeconomic policy. Either their plans don't exist or they don't want you to know them. Costings are a mix of shambolic & non-existent. Nothing on the multi-billion price tag for the NHS, social care, migration cuts & Brexit. Their long-term care policy asks those who need more to pay more. It boasts of a new Conservatism rejecting harsh individualism, then penalises dementia sufferers & poorer kids on free school meals. Is anyone surprised?
As I said before food banks are a national disgrace, and anyone using them should be a cause for criticism, but care should be taken when using emotive accusations.
Except in the evidence from the RCN to the NHS pay review board in the link, no.
As I said before food banks are a national disgrace, and anyone using them should be a cause for criticism, but care should be taken when using emotive accusations.
Except in the evidence from the RCN to the NHS pay review board in the link, no.
Except it's not evidence, is it? HCA's are not nurses. Try searching Nursing Times like I did too. Trainee nurses are also not nurses. Interesting blind 'likes' by people who haven't looked closely enough.
Michelle Murray, a single mum of four from Wigan who has been an NHS nurse for 16 years and visited a food bank for the first time this month.
Danielle Tiplady, a nurse: "As a nurse, I see my colleagues go to food banks because of low pay".
Marina Down, 23, a single mum in London training to become a nurse, says her lowest point came when she was forced to visit a food bank with her daughter.
Names and details. Is this evidence enough?
No, it isnt. So one actual case (a single mum of 4), one trainee(so, not a nurse) and one bit of hear say. Out of what, 315,000 UK nurses? So, sorry to disappoint you and your followers who think it is enough evidence, but it's not really, is it?
Edit 1 - in checking how many I was surprised by these facts on the NHS site There were 18,432 more NHS nurses in 2014 compared to ten years earlier. The number has increased by an annual average of 0.5 per cent over that period. There were 5,729 more GPs and 1,688 more practice nurses employed by GPs in 2014 than ten years earlier.
Edit 2 - The single mum of 4 has actually just gone on to part time working! From the BBC: ''Murray, whose children are aged 6, 8, 13, and 19, said she had seen her monthly salary drop by £800 after switching to part-time outpatient work''
Whilst the number of nurses has increased as you say on average by 0.5% per annum, the population has increased by an average of 0.7% per annum, meaning the number of nurses per head of population has dropped.
Like many of the tory claims of improvements or increases, they haven't kept pace with inflation or population growth and therefore we are measurable worse off in a direct comparison.
To paraphrase Mrs May, austerity means austerity, it's bizarre, to say the at least, to try and claim both increased resources and austerity at the same time, and analysis shows that it's actually austerity light, i.e. cutting of services without any of the fiscal benefits austerity is supposed to produce.
So. The Tory manifesto. I leave care with nothing, and finally pay off my mortgage a month ago. I am getting on towards the years of dementia and such like, and the home I've spent all my life getting will be used to pay for my (probably inevitable) years of care. On the surface it seems reasonable enough until you realise that assisted suicide is illegal.
Care is a really tough one, if i've read it right, everyone will have to pay for care until they are down to £100k of total asset. Its currently something like £26k, but different if you are having care in your own home as the house isn't included. It's better for some (those in care homes) worse for others (those getting care in their own homes) and worse for all compared to what was coming in in 2020 but at least seems a little fairer.
The only people who will be effected really will be those who were to inherit a larger sum than £100k (or I assume £200k if it effected both people of a couple).
I don't think Labour had said the limits as to when you pay/when you stop paying and had referred to a cross party discussion on how it should be funded (wealth tax, employer contribution or a new social care levy). Sounds good in principal but with such opposing views between parties I think Labour would have been better simply setting out their stall.
At least the conservatives is a little clearer, if by no means perfect and certainly doesn't promote good financial planning.
You are almost saying to people, just make sure you have enough live on if you remain healthy. Why should anyone build up a nest egg to hopefully pass onto their children when most will either go in inheritance tax or care costs.........
The Tory Manifesto shows that the Conservative Party thinks the normal rules of politics that apply to others don't apply to them. It is completely lacking any macroeconomic policy. Either their plans don't exist or they don't want you to know them. Costings are a mix of shambolic & non-existent. Nothing on the multi-billion price tag for the NHS, social care, migration cuts & Brexit. Their long-term care policy asks those who need more to pay more. It boasts of a new Conservatism rejecting harsh individualism, then penalises dementia sufferers & poorer kids on free school meals. Is anyone surprised?
Uboat, picking up the bold bit in reverse order.
Unless I misunderstood, we recently changed to a system where previously the 'poorer kids' as you put it received free school meals, the 'richer kids' paid for themselves to all infant children getting free school meals (I believe Junior & secondary is still on the old sort of 'means tested' system).
In the times we find ourselves in, why should the 'richer children' who's parents can well afford to pay for their school lunch not do so? I find it ludicrous that a child whose parent is say someone on £200k a year gets a free meal at school, there must be better ways to spend that money for the good of all children?
The 'dementia suffers' are actually better off under the proposed system. On the basis that almost all dementia sufferers will be in residential care at some point they will be left with a minimum of £100k to pass on rather than circa £23k, although I appreciate that is worse than the proposed system that was due to come in 2020 (although it wouldn't have helped everyone anyway).
The Tory Manifesto shows that the Conservative Party thinks the normal rules of politics that apply to others don't apply to them. It is completely lacking any macroeconomic policy. Either their plans don't exist or they don't want you to know them. Costings are a mix of shambolic & non-existent. Nothing on the multi-billion price tag for the NHS, social care, migration cuts & Brexit. Their long-term care policy asks those who need more to pay more. It boasts of a new Conservatism rejecting harsh individualism, then penalises dementia sufferers & poorer kids on free school meals. Is anyone surprised?
That's what I felt. There are certainly plenty of good ideas in there but no one is going to ask them the question 'where is the money going to come from?' like everyone does with everyone else. Since there are no provisions to freeze taxes on low earners and Conservative ministers refuse to guarantee that there will be no rise in VAT or more cuts to vital public services, we can make an educated guess where any savings are going to come from given the Tories' form on such matters.
Obviously the changes regarding pensioners, care and other matters usually most dear for grey voters are controversial. These usually Tory-voting people may have to go to the polls holding their noses, or are the Tories taking their votes for granted?
The Tory Manifesto shows that the Conservative Party thinks the normal rules of politics that apply to others don't apply to them. It is completely lacking any macroeconomic policy. Either their plans don't exist or they don't want you to know them. Costings are a mix of shambolic & non-existent. Nothing on the multi-billion price tag for the NHS, social care, migration cuts & Brexit. Their long-term care policy asks those who need more to pay more. It boasts of a new Conservatism rejecting harsh individualism, then penalises dementia sufferers & poorer kids on free school meals. Is anyone surprised?
......... and Conservative ministers refuse to guarantee that there will be no rise in VAT
"By 2020, we will, as promised, increase the personal allowance to £12,500 and the higher rate to £50,000. We will continue to ensure that local residents can veto high increases in Council Tax via a referendum. And we will not increase the level of Value Added Tax"
But I agree the 'costings' are lacking in many parts fro what i've seen.
A leaders debate without the leaders of the two major parties is a bit of a nonsense. It just comes over as a bunch of no-hopers. On balance, I think Corbyn was right not to participate.
Nurses are on a higher wage than the grads starting in our agency... Speaking to someone on our grad scheme today and absolutely none of them are using food banks. Why do we always hear that nurses are using food banks?
Because it's a national embarrassment and a disgrace.
No that's not what I mean....
I am saying that nurses earn more money than many other professions who don't seem to use food banks as widely.
My example being a group of graduate ad execs on 18.5k are not using a food bank yet we apparently have tonnes of nurses on more than that who are..
Do get me wrong I don't like to see anyone using food banks but what is the reason? I lived away from home when i was on less than 20k - rented a flat with my mate in Sidcup, lived within my means (which admittedly didn't involve luxuries but that's all I could afford at the time) but was never close to not being able to eat.
Living to your means seems to be the key for me... 13 years later I live on 100k more than that but in many ways I don't 'feel' richer in the sense of having loads of cash left over at the end of every month. The difference being that he holidays, TVs, cars etc that I couldn't afford I now can. So my income has changed - and that's the difference. I have the flex to do the luxury things on top of the basic staples such as rent and food. When I was on less than 20k - well I couldn't afford that so missed out. But was never close to not being able to eat as I made a conscious decision to only do other things I once that was taken care of.
Firstly no one has said there are "tonnes" of nurses using food banks.
Secondly, you do not know for certain whether someone is using a food bank (or not) because they are hardly likely to admit to you, a more senior colleague, if they or another colleague were. People using food banks do so out of desperation and are unlikely to want it known around the office if they are.
Well done on your progression btw.
As the first poster to use the phrase about nurses being forced to use food banks, that's a bit pot/kettle.
Do you think? In what way? I never quantified how many were said to be using food banks but was referring to the RCN reports that nurses were. I still believe that. They should know right or are you suggesting that they've completely made it up? Were they also making it up that their members are using payday lenders and missing meals to make ends meet too?
And was a delegate at the recent Police Federation conference also lying when they stated some people in their force were relying on charity to put food on the table?
Btw why shouldn't I be pleased that someone's done well for themselves and wtf has that got to do with not wanting a society where anyone let alone a nurse has to use a food bank?
Which RCN reports were you referring to,BA? Have you read any of the preceding relevant posts? Believe what you want - obviously you do despite any evidence there may or may not be to support your views.
I got Centralist with a balance between Conservative, Lib Dem and Labour! I even got an edge of UKIP based on wanting to deport criminals I guess they're the only options I felt may have been UKIP linked!
It would have been great to have seen Fiiiish do this in 2015 and be able to compare it to now. Would have been really interesting reading.
Well for your benefit I have attempted to channel my 2015 self and compared to my current views (following my apparent lobotomy):
I felt a few questions were poorly worded or gave not enough choices. For example, on fox hunting, I disapprove of the practice but I do not think it should be banned by law. That said it is an issue I care little about and they can all ride into a giant tyre fire for all I care.
On social issues I remained largely the same; I'm a liberal at heart and believe in freedom of expression and of people living their lives the way they like as long as they are not harming others.
I think it was on the economy, the EU and immigration I had the biggest swings in opinion.
The Tory Manifesto shows that the Conservative Party thinks the normal rules of politics that apply to others don't apply to them. It is completely lacking any macroeconomic policy. Either their plans don't exist or they don't want you to know them. Costings are a mix of shambolic & non-existent. Nothing on the multi-billion price tag for the NHS, social care, migration cuts & Brexit. Their long-term care policy asks those who need more to pay more. It boasts of a new Conservatism rejecting harsh individualism, then penalises dementia sufferers & poorer kids on free school meals. Is anyone surprised?
......... and Conservative ministers refuse to guarantee that there will be no rise in VAT
"By 2020, we will, as promised, increase the personal allowance to £12,500 and the higher rate to £50,000. We will continue to ensure that local residents can veto high increases in Council Tax via a referendum. And we will not increase the level of Value Added Tax"
But I agree the 'costings' are lacking in many parts fro what i've seen.
Whoops. Ctrl+F then searching for 'VAT' clearly didn't work because they called it Value Added Tax.
On balance, I think Corbyn made the right decision not to show without May being there tonight. Would've been a non-stop attack on Labour if he had turned up. As it was, neither of them got by without the odd mention but the candidates focused on either their own policies for the duration, or on attacking UKIP.
If I am understanding correctly, may is a shameful coward for not turning up, hiding from public scrutiny, unable to defend her record or her policies. But Corbyn was right not to show up
If I am understanding correctly, may is a shameful coward for not turning up, hiding from public scrutiny, unable to defend her record or her policies. But Corbyn was right not to show up
Yep. They should both have been there. But if the PM doesn't bother to show, then the leader of the opposition is on a hiding to nothing.
If I am understanding correctly, may is a shameful coward for not turning up, hiding from public scrutiny, unable to defend her record or her policies. But Corbyn was right not to show up
I'd rather both showed up. May would be taken apart.
If I am understanding correctly, may is a shameful coward for not turning up, hiding from public scrutiny, unable to defend her record or her policies. But Corbyn was right not to show up
I'd rather both showed up. May would be taken apart.
I see a lot of labour people saying this, but have never once seen Corbyn take May apart, in fact in PMQ's she usually absolutely mullers him from what I've seen
Which RCN reports were you referring to,BA? Have you read any of the preceding relevant posts? Believe what you want - obviously you do despite any evidence there may or may not be to support your views.
Lol. There are plenty of links to media sources reporting the views and evidence of the RCN going back to at least last summer. You can Google those yourself.
More "first hand" if you like is the submission from the RCN to the NHS Pay Review Body available through...
Presumably you've already seen this as you've been looking for evidence but if not I'd direct you to Section 6.7 in particular (where the feedback from the RCN is clear, that more than a few individual nurses are resorting to food banks) and the charts 8 & 9 also contained. These are showing some of the responses from members, including that nearly 14% of nursing staff have missed meals due to financial difficulty and 33% have borrowed money to cope with everyday expenses.
Seriously, I don't know what your issue is with me over this and I don't see where I've been hypocritical or inconsistent.
You haven't answered my questions about whether you believe the RCN has fabricated this evidence btw?
Comments
Like many of the tory claims of improvements or increases, they haven't kept pace with inflation or population growth and therefore we are measurable worse off in a direct comparison.
To paraphrase Mrs May, austerity means austerity, it's bizarre, to say the at least, to try and claim both increased resources and austerity at the same time, and analysis shows that it's actually austerity light, i.e. cutting of services without any of the fiscal benefits austerity is supposed to produce.
I leave care with nothing, and finally pay off my mortgage a month ago.
I am getting on towards the years of dementia and such like, and the home I've spent all my life getting will be used to pay for my (probably inevitable) years of care.
On the surface it seems reasonable enough until you realise that assisted suicide is illegal.
Costings are a mix of shambolic & non-existent. Nothing on the multi-billion price tag for the NHS, social care, migration cuts & Brexit. Their long-term care policy asks those who need more to pay more. It boasts of a new Conservatism rejecting harsh individualism, then penalises dementia sufferers & poorer kids on free school meals.
Is anyone surprised?
The only people who will be effected really will be those who were to inherit a larger sum than £100k (or I assume £200k if it effected both people of a couple).
I don't think Labour had said the limits as to when you pay/when you stop paying and had referred to a cross party discussion on how it should be funded (wealth tax, employer contribution or a new social care levy). Sounds good in principal but with such opposing views between parties I think Labour would have been better simply setting out their stall.
At least the conservatives is a little clearer, if by no means perfect and certainly doesn't promote good financial planning.
You are almost saying to people, just make sure you have enough live on if you remain healthy. Why should anyone build up a nest egg to hopefully pass onto their children when most will either go in inheritance tax or care costs.........
Unless I misunderstood, we recently changed to a system where previously the 'poorer kids' as you put it received free school meals, the 'richer kids' paid for themselves to all infant children getting free school meals (I believe Junior & secondary is still on the old sort of 'means tested' system).
In the times we find ourselves in, why should the 'richer children' who's parents can well afford to pay for their school lunch not do so? I find it ludicrous that a child whose parent is say someone on £200k a year gets a free meal at school, there must be better ways to spend that money for the good of all children?
The 'dementia suffers' are actually better off under the proposed system. On the basis that almost all dementia sufferers will be in residential care at some point they will be left with a minimum of £100k to pass on rather than circa £23k, although I appreciate that is worse than the proposed system that was due to come in 2020 (although it wouldn't have helped everyone anyway).
Obviously the changes regarding pensioners, care and other matters usually most dear for grey voters are controversial. These usually Tory-voting people may have to go to the polls holding their noses, or are the Tories taking their votes for granted?
But I agree the 'costings' are lacking in many parts fro what i've seen.
And was a delegate at the recent Police Federation conference also lying when they stated some people in their force were relying on charity to put food on the table?
https://politicshome.com/news/uk/home-affairs/policing/news/86010/amber-rudd-ridiculed-police-federation-over-foodbank-answer
Btw why shouldn't I be pleased that someone's done well for themselves and wtf has that got to do with not wanting a society where anyone let alone a nurse has to use a food bank?
Have you read any of the preceding relevant posts?
Believe what you want - obviously you do despite any evidence there may or may not be to support your views.
2015:
Con: 69%
UKIP: 69%
LibDem: 53%
Labour: 51%
Green: 39%
2017:
Labour: 70%
LibDem: 69%
Green: 63%
UKIP: 56%
Conservative: 51%
I felt a few questions were poorly worded or gave not enough choices. For example, on fox hunting, I disapprove of the practice but I do not think it should be banned by law. That said it is an issue I care little about and they can all ride into a giant tyre fire for all I care.
On social issues I remained largely the same; I'm a liberal at heart and believe in freedom of expression and of people living their lives the way they like as long as they are not harming others.
I think it was on the economy, the EU and immigration I had the biggest swings in opinion.
But Corbyn was right not to show up
More "first hand" if you like is the submission from the RCN to the NHS Pay Review Body available through...
https://fullfact.org/economy/how-many-nurses-are-using-foodbanks/
Presumably you've already seen this as you've been looking for evidence but if not I'd direct you to Section 6.7 in particular (where the feedback from the RCN is clear, that more than a few individual nurses are resorting to food banks) and the charts 8 & 9 also contained. These are showing some of the responses from members, including that nearly 14% of nursing staff have missed meals due to financial difficulty and 33% have borrowed money to cope with everyday expenses.
Seriously, I don't know what your issue is with me over this and I don't see where I've been hypocritical or inconsistent.
You haven't answered my questions about whether you believe the RCN has fabricated this evidence btw?