Anyway, it's usually a heady mix of extremist radicalisation AND mental imbalance to blame in these cases. We need complex, holistic solutions, not easy demons
My sister just returned yesterday from a five day break in Carcassonne. Some might think that is a close brush with terrorism. But she doesn't and not just for the obvious logical reason. It happens that back in the day, she was 5 minutes from the IRA Harrods bomb.
Curiously, she has never developed a hatred of Catholics. None of us have. We're not much keen on people like Gerry Adams, though.
Extremist groomers prey on the imbalanced (and imbalance them further) to do their dirty work
So looking at islamic extremism for the moment, every person who has gone to fight as jihadists, whether it's in Afghanistan, Pakistan or Paris, suffers from some form of mental illness?
Extremist groomers prey on the imbalanced (and imbalance them further) to do their dirty work
So looking at islamic extremism for the moment, every person who has gone to fight as jihadists, whether it's in Afghanistan, Pakistan or Paris, suffers from some form of mental illness?
That's a strawman. Leuth never said that. Preying on the imbalanced doesn't automatically mean EVERYONE is imbalanced.
Extremist groomers prey on the imbalanced (and imbalance them further) to do their dirty work
So looking at islamic extremism for the moment, every person who has gone to fight as jihadists, whether it's in Afghanistan, Pakistan or Paris, suffers from some form of mental illness?
That's a strawman. Leuth never said that. Preying on the imbalanced doesn't automatically mean EVERYONE is imbalanced.
Extremist groomers prey on the imbalanced (and imbalance them further) to do their dirty work
So looking at islamic extremism for the moment, every person who has gone to fight as jihadists, whether it's in Afghanistan, Pakistan or Paris, suffers from some form of mental illness?
That's a strawman. Leuth never said that. Preying on the imbalanced doesn't automatically mean EVERYONE is imbalanced.
Well, he did use the word usually.
For those that commit terrorist atrocities. Seems fair enough right? The really religious extremists seem to be those doing the grooming rather than the terrorism.
Extremist groomers prey on the imbalanced (and imbalance them further) to do their dirty work
So looking at islamic extremism for the moment, every person who has gone to fight as jihadists, whether it's in Afghanistan, Pakistan or Paris, suffers from some form of mental illness?
That's a strawman. Leuth never said that. Preying on the imbalanced doesn't automatically mean EVERYONE is imbalanced.
Well, he did use the word usually.
For those that commit terrorist atrocities. Seems fair enough right? The really religious extremists seem to be those doing the grooming rather than the terrorism.
I don't think we can ever gauge how religious someone is. If you mean that we never see hate preachers or imans carrying out these attacks, then you're possible right, but doesn't mean the perpetrators aren't "really religious".
Extremist groomers prey on the imbalanced (and imbalance them further) to do their dirty work
So looking at islamic extremism for the moment, every person who has gone to fight as jihadists, whether it's in Afghanistan, Pakistan or Paris, suffers from some form of mental illness?
That's a strawman. Leuth never said that. Preying on the imbalanced doesn't automatically mean EVERYONE is imbalanced.
So your argument to my point is that I've taken Leuth's point out of context. Read it again -
Anyway, it's usually a heady mix of extremist radicalisation AND mental imbalance to blame in these cases. We need complex, holistic solutions, not easy demons
I'd say the vast majority of people who go out and commit premeditated murder are probably not completely wired up right, but most will still be aware of what they're doing
I have just seen that the French gendarme who was shot in the supermarket siege has died of his wounds. Lt-Col Arnaud Beltrame swapped himself for a female hostage and it sounds as if he was killed in the cross fire. Not sure your definition of a Hero is, but one woman will be eternally indebted and so should the whole of France. Arnaud RIP
Extremist groomers prey on the imbalanced (and imbalance them further) to do their dirty work
So looking at islamic extremism for the moment, every person who has gone to fight as jihadists, whether it's in Afghanistan, Pakistan or Paris, suffers from some form of mental illness?
That's a strawman. Leuth never said that. Preying on the imbalanced doesn't automatically mean EVERYONE is imbalanced.
Well, he did use the word usually.
For those that commit terrorist atrocities. Seems fair enough right? The really religious extremists seem to be those doing the grooming rather than the terrorism.
I don't think we can ever gauge how religious someone is. If you mean that we never see hate preachers or imans carrying out these attacks, then you're possible right, but doesn't mean the perpetrators aren't "really religious".
Agree, the perpetrators are extremely almost certainly really religious, I was commentating more on their mental imbalance
I have just seen that the French gendarme who was shot in the supermarket siege has died of his wounds. Lt-Col Arnaud Beltrame swapped himself for a female hostage and it sounds as if he was killed in the cross fire. Not sure your definition of a Hero is, but one woman will be eternally indebted and so should the whole of France. Arnaud RIP
Absolutely spot on.
And, unlike a certain US President, I can safely state that this is not the sort of thing I would have done, when facing a crazed gunman (whether a religiously inspired inadequate or not).
With ref to UK situation. Three main concerns 1 Lone actors- the break up of organised DAESH lines of communication and the consequential difficulties monitoring "traffic" mean harder to track their actions and going beyond that to identify motivated individuals within UK. Ongoing "relaunch" of AQ in the ashes of DAESH. 2 Lone actors -FRE concern that new wave of identitarian adherents move beyond non violent direct action, that GI members for example cross the hairsbreadth to NA type ideology. 3 Northern Ireland. Threat level to rest of UK lowered in direct contradiction to conference speeches recently by CTU. Didn't surprise me due to the toxic nature of Brexit debate but as top cop said issue kicked down the road by politicians but " a war on hold". Threat level internal to Ulster severe as ever.
Focus for prevent work very much on vulnerable individuals linking to your previous conversation about those that are SEMH being targeted. However SEMH but one pathway, criminality and deprivation equally possible as are "heroes, defenders and saviours". As ever there is no tick list and no model as every individual's journey is different but recruiters are skilled and adept at identifying those more easily drawn in.
The real concern is the growth in self radicalised individuals often through the echo chamber of social media and the freedom of online access. This requires new thinking about process. No groomers, no recruiters just the bombardment of social media dis("information") and the constant angry tone of posters and responders. Research is ongoing but this is worrying as we in general like to believe in the controlling hand that satisfies our desire for a known enemy. Much more disconcerting if we are in fact the creators of our own threat made real by the volume and nature of our posts.
It’s a strange that people who kill but claim god spoke to them are considered mentally ill, yet people who go to church/mosque etc to communicate with the same god are considered sane.
I don't think every single one of them is severely mentally imbalanced. Just like I don't believe every kid who was part of the Nazi youth was severely mentally imbalanced.
Brainwashing is a hell of a thing especially with a younger audience (though it isn't just confined to the youngsters). There is also a strong urge for a big idea that is bigger than yourself. if you feel you're on the right side you can be capable of a lot of things.
It’s a strange that people who kill but claim god spoke to them are considered mentally ill, yet people who go to church/mosque etc to communicate with the same god are considered sane.
Personally, I would argue, in the case of US school massacres, for example, that the perpetrators of mass shootings should also be considered terrorists.
They deliberately set out to cause maximum terror, whatever their ideology, if any. The motivation is, frankly speaking, irrelevant to the outcome, which is always that the innocent suffer.
It’s a strange that people who kill but claim god spoke to them are considered mentally ill, yet people who go to church/mosque etc to communicate with the same god are considered sane.
But you could say something similar about the Irish Republican "terrorists". Similar patterns. Low life criminal scum who suddenly found (or were given) a purpose in life.
Anyway, rest in peace Ltnt. Colonel Beltrame, I can only be glad that he passed away in good hands hopefully with family and colleagues around him. The very definition of "service to your country".
terrorist/ perpetrator of a hate crime much more controversial distinction for me NIA. On the basis terrorism by definition is in pursuit of an ideology or cause in the traditional sense other than an emotional desire for revenge, status or fleeting power.
terrorist/ perpetrator of a hate crime much more controversial distinction for me NIA. On the basis terrorism by definition is in pursuit of an ideology or cause in the traditional sense other than an emotional desire for revenge, status or fleeting power.
But the Champs -Elysee 'terrorist' sought to murder police. It turned out that 20 years previously he had sought to murder police too as part of his criminal low life. But 20 years ago he was wasn't religious. So he hated cops. That's surely the mundane truth?
terrorist/ perpetrator of a hate crime much more controversial distinction for me NIA. On the basis terrorism by definition is in pursuit of an ideology or cause in the traditional sense other than an emotional desire for revenge, status or fleeting power.
I'm sticking with the old "the object of terrorism is to terrorise" thing that, I think was either a Lenin or an Orwell quote. Not that it's legally valid, or anything.
But whatever the definition, there's far too much of it about.
terrorist/ perpetrator of a hate crime much more controversial distinction for me NIA. On the basis terrorism by definition is in pursuit of an ideology or cause in the traditional sense other than an emotional desire for revenge, status or fleeting power.
But the Champs -Elysee 'terrorist' sought to murder police. It turned out that 20 years previously he had sought to murder police too as part of his criminal low life. But 20 years ago he was wasn't religious. So he hated cops. That's surely the mundane truth?
Fear of authority? Track it back to abusive relationships in school and home, classic ACE's background therefore many times more probable to be perpetrator and victim of violence in later life. btw agree NIA.
Comments
Why not just religious extremism?
Curiously, she has never developed a hatred of Catholics. None of us have. We're not much keen on people like Gerry Adams, though.
Lt-Col Arnaud Beltrame swapped himself for a female hostage and it sounds as if he was killed in the cross fire.
Not sure your definition of a Hero is, but one woman will be eternally indebted and so should the whole of France.
Arnaud RIP
And, unlike a certain US President, I can safely state that this is not the sort of thing I would have done, when facing a crazed gunman (whether a religiously inspired inadequate or not).
Brave on level that I find hard to comprehend.
RIP Lt.Col. Beltrame
Three main concerns
1 Lone actors- the break up of organised DAESH lines of communication and the consequential difficulties monitoring "traffic" mean harder to track their actions and going beyond that to identify motivated individuals within UK. Ongoing "relaunch" of AQ in the ashes of DAESH.
2 Lone actors -FRE concern that new wave of identitarian adherents move beyond non violent direct action, that GI members for example cross the hairsbreadth to NA type ideology.
3 Northern Ireland. Threat level to rest of UK lowered in direct contradiction to conference speeches recently by CTU. Didn't surprise me due to the toxic nature of Brexit debate but as top cop said issue kicked down the road by politicians but " a war on hold". Threat level internal to Ulster severe as ever.
Focus for prevent work very much on vulnerable individuals linking to your previous conversation about those that are SEMH being targeted. However SEMH but one pathway, criminality and deprivation equally possible as are "heroes, defenders and saviours". As ever there is no tick list and no model as every individual's journey is different but recruiters are skilled and adept at identifying those more easily drawn in.
The real concern is the growth in self radicalised individuals often through the echo chamber of social media and the freedom of online access. This requires new thinking about process. No groomers, no recruiters just the bombardment of social media dis("information") and the constant angry tone of posters and responders. Research is ongoing but this is worrying as we in general like to believe in the controlling hand that satisfies our desire for a known enemy. Much more disconcerting if we are in fact the creators of our own threat made real by the volume and nature of our posts.
Brainwashing is a hell of a thing especially with a younger audience (though it isn't just confined to the youngsters). There is also a strong urge for a big idea that is bigger than yourself. if you feel you're on the right side you can be capable of a lot of things.
They deliberately set out to cause maximum terror, whatever their ideology, if any. The motivation is, frankly speaking, irrelevant to the outcome, which is always that the innocent suffer.
Anyway, rest in peace Ltnt. Colonel Beltrame, I can only be glad that he passed away in good hands hopefully with family and colleagues around him. The very definition of "service to your country".
But whatever the definition, there's far too much of it about.
btw agree NIA.
A terrible yet brave passing for a man who demonstrated empathy and love for others.
Totally heroic, total hero.