The point of the parallels being drawn with "getting the leaders of the white community to condemn this act" etc is that it is precisely what happens every time there's a terror attack done by Islamists in the West. The "Muslim community must condemn this" and generally they do. But the Muslims I know don't get why it's only them who get asked it and why it's not taken as a given. Why it is that when white racists carry out these attacks there isn't the same response and a lot of the time it's not even called terrorism when a white bloke does it, he's always a lone wolf. I don't think anyone drawing these parallels thinks it's true - it's a rhetorical device. (I could be wrong of course)
The elephant in the room is that most Muslims know where the hate-preachers are funded from and the particular strain of fundamentalist Islam that is the best funded across the Islamic world is the promoted ideology of the house of Saud. And no one is going to bite that particular hand - not the mosques, and certainly not the western governments who are allied to Saudi Arabia.
Is 'white' an ideology? Also, is there such a thing as 'the white community'? do we/they have community leaders? does 'white' have places of worship where an ideological 'white' belief is taught?
Not looking for an argument but I just don't get the parallels at all.
The "white" community is very diverse and so while being a white British middle aged man myself I don't feel any responsibility for what another British white middle aged man did and no one expects me to. That was the point.
I think people need to be careful not to conflate race with religion, which seems to be what people do when trying to compare these sorts of events.
It's not a comparison. It's a rhetorical point about the differing response.
Note how some people who were outraged and very active on other threads about other attacks have hardly commented or not commented at all. In some cases not even to say RIP or to condemn the attacker. It's the double standards over collective responsibility that are being highlighted NOT comparing race with religion
You will see early that someone was predicting a "race war" as an outcome of the attack. Something that I have heard spouted since the 1970s as something that is always five years away. Often said with some relish and wish fulfilment too although i'm not saying that person was doing so.
The point is that saying "all whites" is a stupid as saying "all Muslims".
Absolutely spot on. And I fully agree it is very telling that a number of posters who were very active in the other threads have nothing to say.
Actually, if you take note of numerous requests from admin to keep personal feuds away from serious/sensitive threads then I'm sure myself and others recently have purposefully kept away from this sort of thread for the greater good.
Nothing personal at all. If you have a serious point to make about this then you should make it but at the moment the silence is deafening.
If people are fed a constant stream of garbage from the Sun, the Express and the Mail then inevitably it will wind people up. It's almost like they want to provoke a response.
I've been quite stunned by some of the racist views expressed on social media - for a country that took on Nazi Germany it's very sad.
The world changes and some people can't accept that.
The sad inadequates involved with far right politics are every bit as pathetic as those butchering people in the name of religion.
If people are fed a constant stream of garbage from the Sun, the Express and the Mail then inevitably it will wind people up. It's almost like they want to provoke a response.
I've been quite stunned by some of the racist views expressed on social media - for a country that took on Nazi Germany it's very sad.
The world changes and some people can't accept that.
The sad inadequates involved with far right politics are every bit as pathetic as those butchering people in the name of religion.
I had a look at the Britain First and Tommy Robinson facebook pages, incredible stuff there, pretty much what people claim gets posted on Muslim extremist sites.
If people are fed a constant stream of garbage from the Sun, the Express and the Mail then inevitably it will wind people up. It's almost like they want to provoke a response.
I've been quite stunned by some of the racist views expressed on social media - for a country that took on Nazi Germany it's very sad.
The world changes and some people can't accept that.
The sad inadequates involved with far right politics are every bit as pathetic as those butchering people in the name of religion.
I had a look at the Britain First and Tommy Robinson facebook pages, incredible stuff there, pretty much what people claim gets posted on Muslim extremist sites.
Both as bad as each other - depressing and predictable.
If people are fed a constant stream of garbage from the Sun, the Express and the Mail then inevitably it will wind people up. It's almost like they want to provoke a response.
I've been quite stunned by some of the racist views expressed on social media - for a country that took on Nazi Germany it's very sad.
The world changes and some people can't accept that.
The sad inadequates involved with far right politics are every bit as pathetic as those butchering people in the name of religion.
I had a look at the Britain First and Tommy Robinson facebook pages, incredible stuff there, pretty much what people claim gets posted on Muslim extremist sites.
Both as bad as each other - depressing and predictable.
And Britain First who are very trigger happy on the ban and delete button let those post stay. It's only the ones with a lot of likes that I notice as well...
If people are fed a constant stream of garbage from the Sun, the Express and the Mail then inevitably it will wind people up. It's almost like they want to provoke a response.
I've been quite stunned by some of the racist views expressed on social media - for a country that took on Nazi Germany it's very sad.
The world changes and some people can't accept that.
The sad inadequates involved with far right politics are every bit as pathetic as those butchering people in the name of religion.
I had a look at the Britain First and Tommy Robinson facebook pages, incredible stuff there, pretty much what people claim gets posted on Muslim extremist sites.
Both as bad as each other - depressing and predictable.
And Britain First who are very trigger happy on the ban and delete button let those post stay. It's only the ones with a lot of likes that I notice as well...
Britain First will disappear up its own arse and join the BNP, National Front and British Movement. None of them have ever attracted popular support.
If people are fed a constant stream of garbage from the Sun, the Express and the Mail then inevitably it will wind people up. It's almost like they want to provoke a response.
I've been quite stunned by some of the racist views expressed on social media - for a country that took on Nazi Germany it's very sad.
The world changes and some people can't accept that.
The sad inadequates involved with far right politics are every bit as pathetic as those butchering people in the name of religion.
I had a look at the Britain First and Tommy Robinson facebook pages, incredible stuff there, pretty much what people claim gets posted on Muslim extremist sites.
Do these posters get reported to the police in the UK? It seems like a lifetime ago but the first major terrorism event of 2017 was here in Canada....
If people are fed a constant stream of garbage from the Sun, the Express and the Mail then inevitably it will wind people up. It's almost like they want to provoke a response.
I've been quite stunned by some of the racist views expressed on social media - for a country that took on Nazi Germany it's very sad.
The world changes and some people can't accept that.
The sad inadequates involved with far right politics are every bit as pathetic as those butchering people in the name of religion.
I had a look at the Britain First and Tommy Robinson facebook pages, incredible stuff there, pretty much what people claim gets posted on Muslim extremist sites.
Do these posters get reported to the police in the UK? It seems like a lifetime ago but the first major terrorism event of 2017 was here in Canada....
@Chizz maybe not all 400 but a lot have travelled over and then been welcomed with open arms back into this country, were saying keep tabs on people but theres a lot of isis supporters here that just walk around, and people will start to have enough and take matters into there own hands.
i also said middle east not syria and lybia.
Approximately 850 people from the UK have travelled to support or fight for jihadist organisations in Syria and Iraq, say the British authorities. About half have since returned to the UK, and we cant even keep tabs on them!!!.
@Chizz maybe not all 400 but a lot have travelled over and then been welcomed with open arms back into this country, were saying keep tabs on people but theres a lot of isis supporters here that just walk around, and people will start to have enough and take matters into there own hands.
If there's any evidence of anyone "fighting British troops", these people would be arrested and charged.
If you know of anyone that has returned to the UK after fighting our armed forces, can I encourage you to report them by calling 999 or the police anti-terrorist hotline on 0800 789 321.
(That goes for anyone considering taking matters into their own hands too).
@Chizz maybe not all 400 but a lot have travelled over and then been welcomed with open arms back into this country, were saying keep tabs on people but theres a lot of isis supporters here that just walk around, and people will start to have enough and take matters into there own hands.
i also said middle east not syria and lybia.
Approximately 850 people from the UK have travelled to support or fight for jihadist organisations in Syria and Iraq, say the British authorities. About half have since returned to the UK, and we cant even keep tabs on them!!!.
@Chizz maybe not all 400 but a lot have travelled over and then been welcomed with open arms back into this country, were saying keep tabs on people but theres a lot of isis supporters here that just walk around, and people will start to have enough and take matters into there own hands.
i also said middle east not syria and lybia.
Approximately 850 people from the UK have travelled to support or fight for jihadist organisations in Syria and Iraq, say the British authorities. About half have since returned to the UK, and we cant even keep tabs on them!!!.
white isn't a religion, there are what people percieve as a typical white english person, but that isnt the same, not all muslims are the same, the difference imo is that this guy was mentally damaged and not brainwashed, the westminster, manchester and borough market attackers were brainwashed and done it as it was there view of the quran which if taken literally is quite a violent book, most religous books do if you look at them.
All the kinds of NO.
I can't read this kind of post without becoming infuriated, mentally damaged or not attacking innocents with the intent to cause multiple deaths IS a terrorist act.
People coming back from fighting for ISIS is a murky world. It's not likely to be handled by the police but by MI5/6, who are always open to doing deals. Hence why so few are ever charged. Where there's no interest in doing deals, like with the people who've joined the Kurdish forces fighting both of our official enemies (Assad and ISIS), a different standard applies:
I don't doubt that the security services are at least trying to keep tabs on people who've been fighting for ISIS. But equally, I think they are more interested in catching something big by not going after them heavy-handed than in jailing small-fry. Inevitably, some will slip through the net. The kind of surveillance that might stop that would not sit well with most British people. Think of the rumpus when a new speed camera is put in - could you imagine that level of surveillance on most areas of daily life?
I hope a similar level of surveillance is being directed at the British far-right.
white isn't a religion, there are what people percieve as a typical white english person, but that isnt the same, not all muslims are the same, the difference imo is that this guy was mentally damaged and not brainwashed, the westminster, manchester and borough market attackers were brainwashed and done it as it was there view of the quran which if taken literally is quite a violent book, most religous books do if you look at them.
All the kinds of NO.
I can't read this kind of post without becoming infuriated, mentally damaged or not attacking innocents with the intent to cause multiple deaths IS a terrorist act.
White racist nutters are mentally damaged and Muslim terrorists are brainwashed - it's as simple as that.
white isn't a religion, there are what people percieve as a typical white english person, but that isnt the same, not all muslims are the same, the difference imo is that this guy was mentally damaged and not brainwashed, the westminster, manchester and borough market attackers were brainwashed and done it as it was there view of the quran which if taken literally is quite a violent book, most religous books do if you look at them.
All the kinds of NO.
I can't read this kind of post without becoming infuriated, mentally damaged or not attacking innocents with the intent to cause multiple deaths IS a terrorist act.
Anyone who partakes any of these acts has mental issues as far as I'm concerned. The murder of innocent people is not carried out by 'sane' people in my opinion.
white isn't a religion, there are what people percieve as a typical white english person, but that isnt the same, not all muslims are the same, the difference imo is that this guy was mentally damaged and not brainwashed, the westminster, manchester and borough market attackers were brainwashed and done it as it was there view of the quran which if taken literally is quite a violent book, most religous books do if you look at them.
All the kinds of NO.
I can't read this kind of post without becoming infuriated, mentally damaged or not attacking innocents with the intent to cause multiple deaths IS a terrorist act.
White racist nutters are mentally damaged and Muslim terrorists are brainwashed - it's as simple as that.
when i say mentally damaged that is racist as in hes not got a motif for it, lee rigby for example was murdered for the fact that he was a british soldier and the 2 men that carried the attack out claimed to be soldiers of islam. not some welsh bloke that wants to kill as many muslims as he can, can see were never going to agree so sod it, its hot outside the suns shining and ive got an early finish.
you can stand down battle stations @hoof_it_up_to_benty@Chizz and @se9addick out of interest do you ever post on any other threads that dont mention any of the following, may, corbyn, brexit, terrorist.
white isn't a religion, there are what people percieve as a typical white english person, but that isnt the same, not all muslims are the same, the difference imo is that this guy was mentally damaged and not brainwashed, the westminster, manchester and borough market attackers were brainwashed and done it as it was there view of the quran which if taken literally is quite a violent book, most religous books do if you look at them.
All the kinds of NO.
I can't read this kind of post without becoming infuriated, mentally damaged or not attacking innocents with the intent to cause multiple deaths IS a terrorist act.
White racist nutters are mentally damaged and Muslim terrorists are brainwashed - it's as simple as that.
I'm sure there will be white racists who have been brainwashed (whatever that means) and Islamist terrorists who are mentally deranged. But does it really matter?
Collectively I prefer to call them murdering bastards.
white isn't a religion, there are what people percieve as a typical white english person, but that isnt the same, not all muslims are the same, the difference imo is that this guy was mentally damaged and not brainwashed, the westminster, manchester and borough market attackers were brainwashed and done it as it was there view of the quran which if taken literally is quite a violent book, most religous books do if you look at them.
All the kinds of NO.
I can't read this kind of post without becoming infuriated, mentally damaged or not attacking innocents with the intent to cause multiple deaths IS a terrorist act.
White racist nutters are mentally damaged and Muslim terrorists are brainwashed - it's as simple as that.
when i say mentally damaged that is racist as in hes not got a motif for it, lee rigby for example was murdered for the fact that he was a british soldier and the 2 men that carried the attack out claimed to be soldiers of islam. not some welsh bloke that wants to kill as many muslims as he can, can see were never going to agree so sod it, its hot outside the suns shining and ive got an early finish.
you can stand down battle stations @hoof_it_up_to_benty@Chizz and @se9addick out of interest do you ever post on ny other threads that dont mention any of the following, may, corbyn, brexit, terrorist.
I'm unclear why you think the guy doesn't have a motive - he does seem to have a bit of issue with Muslims. He appears a little brainwashed.
You do seem determined to defend the indefensible sometimes.
You can stand down if you like as you're getting a little hot...
white isn't a religion, there are what people percieve as a typical white english person, but that isnt the same, not all muslims are the same, the difference imo is that this guy was mentally damaged and not brainwashed, the westminster, manchester and borough market attackers were brainwashed and done it as it was there view of the quran which if taken literally is quite a violent book, most religous books do if you look at them.
All the kinds of NO.
I can't read this kind of post without becoming infuriated, mentally damaged or not attacking innocents with the intent to cause multiple deaths IS a terrorist act.
White racist nutters are mentally damaged and Muslim terrorists are brainwashed - it's as simple as that.
when i say mentally damaged that is racist as in hes not got a motif for it, lee rigby for example was murdered for the fact that he was a british soldier and the 2 men that carried the attack out claimed to be soldiers of islam. not some welsh bloke that wants to kill as many muslims as he can, can see were never going to agree so sod it, its hot outside the suns shining and ive got an early finish.
you can stand down battle stations @hoof_it_up_to_benty@Chizz and @se9addick out of interest do you ever post on ny other threads that dont mention any of the following, may, corbyn, brexit, terrorist.
I'm unclear why you think the guy doesn't have a motive - he does seem to have a bit of issue with Muslims. He appears a little brainwashed.
You do seem determined to defend the indefensible sometimes.
You can stand down if you like as you're getting a little hot...
i no way defending anyone so please don't try and spin that on to me as its clearly not what i'm doing.
Of course he has a motive, he Doesn't like Muslims - its a racist attack, him and all the other fuckers that have gone round killing people are just as bad, my point was the likes of the lee rigby killers - they believed they had a motive as they don't see that they are part of the British system - i know for a fact that they wouldn't let female doctors tend to them in hospital and refused to stand in court etc, and i think they genuinely believed they would of been shot there and then at the scene of the crime, as they are soldiers of Islam. you Don't just believe in all that overnight.
the attacks we have had here have been because of misinterpretations/literal interpretations of religous texts, as chizz has mentioned they are my opinions. being white and racist isnt a religion.
that is the difference apart from that they can all end up in hell for all i care, all just as bad.
white isn't a religion, there are what people percieve as a typical white english person, but that isnt the same, not all muslims are the same, the difference imo is that this guy was mentally damaged and not brainwashed, the westminster, manchester and borough market attackers were brainwashed and done it as it was there view of the quran which if taken literally is quite a violent book, most religous books do if you look at them.
All the kinds of NO.
I can't read this kind of post without becoming infuriated, mentally damaged or not attacking innocents with the intent to cause multiple deaths IS a terrorist act.
White racist nutters are mentally damaged and Muslim terrorists are brainwashed - it's as simple as that.
when i say mentally damaged that is racist as in hes not got a motif for it, lee rigby for example was murdered for the fact that he was a british soldier and the 2 men that carried the attack out claimed to be soldiers of islam. not some welsh bloke that wants to kill as many muslims as he can, can see were never going to agree so sod it, its hot outside the suns shining and ive got an early finish.
you can stand down battle stations @hoof_it_up_to_benty@Chizz and @se9addick out of interest do you ever post on ny other threads that dont mention any of the following, may, corbyn, brexit, terrorist.
I'm unclear why you think the guy doesn't have a motive - he does seem to have a bit of issue with Muslims. He appears a little brainwashed.
You do seem determined to defend the indefensible sometimes.
You can stand down if you like as you're getting a little hot...
i no way defending anyone so please don't try and spin that on to me as its clearly not what i'm doing.
Of course he has a motive, he Doesn't like Muslims - its a racist attack, him and all the other fuckers that have gone round killing people are just as bad, my point was the likes of the lee rigby killers - they believed they had a motive as they don't see that they are part of the British system - i know for a fact that they wouldn't let female doctors tend to them in hospital and refused to stand in court etc, and i think they genuinely believed they would of been shot there and then at the scene of the crime, as they are soldiers of Islam. you Don't just believe in all that overnight.
the attacks we have had here have been because of misinterpretations/literal interpretations of religous texts, as chizz has mentioned they are my opinions. being white and racist isnt a religion.
that is the difference apart from that they can all end up in hell for all i care, all just as bad.
I'm not trying to spin anything. You did say the guy didn't have a motive which is what I was responding to. White racists and Muslim terrorists are similar in many ways.
Anyway as you said it's hot so let's move on. Have a good day.
white isn't a religion, there are what people percieve as a typical white english person, but that isnt the same, not all muslims are the same, the difference imo is that this guy was mentally damaged and not brainwashed, the westminster, manchester and borough market attackers were brainwashed and done it as it was there view of the quran which if taken literally is quite a violent book, most religous books do if you look at them.
All the kinds of NO.
I can't read this kind of post without becoming infuriated, mentally damaged or not attacking innocents with the intent to cause multiple deaths IS a terrorist act.
White racist nutters are mentally damaged and Muslim terrorists are brainwashed - it's as simple as that.
when i say mentally damaged that is racist as in hes not got a motif for it, lee rigby for example was murdered for the fact that he was a british soldier and the 2 men that carried the attack out claimed to be soldiers of islam. not some welsh bloke that wants to kill as many muslims as he can, can see were never going to agree so sod it, its hot outside the suns shining and ive got an early finish.
you can stand down battle stations @hoof_it_up_to_benty@Chizz and @se9addick out of interest do you ever post on any other threads that dont mention any of the following, may, corbyn, brexit, terrorist.
Yeah every now and then there are threads about Charlton on here which can be interesting.
white isn't a religion, there are what people percieve as a typical white english person, but that isnt the same, not all muslims are the same, the difference imo is that this guy was mentally damaged and not brainwashed, the westminster, manchester and borough market attackers were brainwashed and done it as it was there view of the quran which if taken literally is quite a violent book, most religous books do if you look at them.
All the kinds of NO.
I can't read this kind of post without becoming infuriated, mentally damaged or not attacking innocents with the intent to cause multiple deaths IS a terrorist act.
White racist nutters are mentally damaged and Muslim terrorists are brainwashed - it's as simple as that.
when i say mentally damaged that is racist as in hes not got a motif for it, lee rigby for example was murdered for the fact that he was a british soldier and the 2 men that carried the attack out claimed to be soldiers of islam. not some welsh bloke that wants to kill as many muslims as he can, can see were never going to agree so sod it, its hot outside the suns shining and ive got an early finish.
you can stand down battle stations @hoof_it_up_to_benty@Chizz and @se9addick out of interest do you ever post on any other threads that dont mention any of the following, may, corbyn, brexit, terrorist.
Point of order, he's English not Welsh.....born in Weston- Super-Mare.
The point of the parallels being drawn with "getting the leaders of the white community to condemn this act" etc is that it is precisely what happens every time there's a terror attack done by Islamists in the West. The "Muslim community must condemn this" and generally they do. But the Muslims I know don't get why it's only them who get asked it and why it's not taken as a given. Why it is that when white racists carry out these attacks there isn't the same response and a lot of the time it's not even called terrorism when a white bloke does it, he's always a lone wolf. I don't think anyone drawing these parallels thinks it's true - it's a rhetorical device. (I could be wrong of course)
The elephant in the room is that most Muslims know where the hate-preachers are funded from and the particular strain of fundamentalist Islam that is the best funded across the Islamic world is the promoted ideology of the house of Saud. And no one is going to bite that particular hand - not the mosques, and certainly not the western governments who are allied to Saudi Arabia.
Is 'white' an ideology? Also, is there such a thing as 'the white community'? do we/they have community leaders? does 'white' have places of worship where an ideological 'white' belief is taught?
Not looking for an argument but I just don't get the parallels at all.
Great post... I work in engineering and we have great engineers from all parts of the world who work with us.... One issue were going through is some of our asian /black/muslim engineers and scientists have formed a black engineering organisation..
We of course wernt allowed to create a white simular.... Whose racist.
Comments
I've been quite stunned by some of the racist views expressed on social media - for a country that took on Nazi Germany it's very sad.
The world changes and some people can't accept that.
The sad inadequates involved with far right politics are every bit as pathetic as those butchering people in the name of religion.
https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/quebec-city-mosque-shooting-what-we-know-so-far/article33826078/?ref=https://www.theglobeandmail.com&
The shooter in this case was very active on the type of forums mentioned above.
Or are there 400 that were encouraged by MI6 to travel to Syria and Lybia to oppose those country's regimes, where there were no British troops?
And, either way, would that have radicalised an English-born, Welsh-based inadequate, described by his friends as a c*nt?
i also said middle east not syria and lybia.
Approximately 850 people from the UK have travelled to support or fight for jihadist organisations in Syria and Iraq, say the British authorities. About half have since returned to the UK, and we cant even keep tabs on them!!!.
If you know of anyone that has returned to the UK after fighting our armed forces, can I encourage you to report them by calling 999 or the police anti-terrorist hotline on 0800 789 321.
(That goes for anyone considering taking matters into their own hands too).
I can't read this kind of post without becoming infuriated, mentally damaged or not attacking innocents with the intent to cause multiple deaths IS a terrorist act.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silhan_Özçelik
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39758298
I don't doubt that the security services are at least trying to keep tabs on people who've been fighting for ISIS. But equally, I think they are more interested in catching something big by not going after them heavy-handed than in jailing small-fry. Inevitably, some will slip through the net. The kind of surveillance that might stop that would not sit well with most British people. Think of the rumpus when a new speed camera is put in - could you imagine that level of surveillance on most areas of daily life?
I hope a similar level of surveillance is being directed at the British far-right.
They are still terrorists though regardless.
you can stand down battle stations @hoof_it_up_to_benty @Chizz and @se9addick out of interest do you ever post on any other threads that dont mention any of the following, may, corbyn, brexit, terrorist.
Collectively I prefer to call them murdering bastards.
You do seem determined to defend the indefensible sometimes.
You can stand down if you like as you're getting a little hot...
Of course he has a motive, he Doesn't like Muslims - its a racist attack, him and all the other fuckers that have gone round killing people are just as bad, my point was the likes of the lee rigby killers - they believed they had a motive as they don't see that they are part of the British system - i know for a fact that they wouldn't let female doctors tend to them in hospital and refused to stand in court etc, and i think they genuinely believed they would of been shot there and then at the scene of the crime, as they are soldiers of Islam. you Don't just believe in all that overnight.
the attacks we have had here have been because of misinterpretations/literal interpretations of religous texts, as chizz has mentioned they are my opinions.
being white and racist isnt a religion.
that is the difference apart from that they can all end up in hell for all i care, all just as bad.
Anyway as you said it's hot so let's move on. Have a good day.
At least no one will trot out that old bollocks about "not all Muslims are terrorists but all terrorists are Muslim" again.
We of course wernt allowed to create a white simular.... Whose racist.