Was Ajose a Slade signing? You don't spend 600-800 grand on a bloke who scored 25 goals the season before, if you are not going to set up the team around him to play off his strengths!
When Curbishley spent 700,000 in May 1997 on a fella up front, he knew how to get the best from him, which would benefit the team. He didn't leave him on the bench, or play him behind the main striker on the left.
Someone clearly did not do their due dillange when signing Ajose
No he was signed before Slade joined and apparently Slade didn't particularly rate or want him. He was signed during that transition period after the season but before Slade started. I can't remember who was advising on signings. Maybe that scout? Maybe a certain former manager? Either way, it just shows the complete lack of planning and continuity we have, even if I think we've "outgrown" Ajose and his style.
are you sure about this ? .. Slade was appointed on June 6th and Ajose signed after that date .. my memory is that Slade started with a 4 4 2 at Bury where we were wiped out by a more aggressive and bigger team .. Slade persevered with 4 4 2, Ajose scored a pair at Walsall and then we went into a slump of about 8 games without a win, so Slade went chicken and reverted to a 4 5 1 just using Magennis as a lone striker .. Ajose was the fall guy for the change of plan .. Slade was then sacked and new boy Robo had his own idiosyncratic ideas about personnel and formations that excluded Ajoses' talents for what they were worth, he was never the most diligent or perfect of strikers but I maintain that he was never given a good enough run during his time with us
He scored twice again Walsall, but either side of that the goals were pretty dry (I want to say he didn't score in the league either side). When you go 8 games without a win, you should change the system. The fact of the matter is that, when you're a poacher and you're not scoring goals, you're going to be dropped. Slade reverted to 4-4-2 in his last game against Swindon and we were awful. To be fair Ajose did look to get a little bit more involved in the build up, but not by much.
Robinson's system isn't idiosyncratic, it's arguably the most commonly used formation in football over the last decade. The fact that we had to overhaul the squad shows that some of our players, and arguably League One players, are tactically lacking. Robinson has been promoted out of this league before. He may have had good players, but he still had to go out and win games. He's far from perfect, but he has a style of play and he wants us to follow that. He's already leaps and bounds ahead of Slade in terms of coaching.
This is what I was referring to. He wasn't a Slade signing.
Was Ajose a Slade signing? You don't spend 600-800 grand on a bloke who scored 25 goals the season before, if you are not going to set up the team around him to play off his strengths!
When Curbishley spent 700,000 in May 1997 on a fella up front, he knew how to get the best from him, which would benefit the team. He didn't leave him on the bench, or play him behind the main striker on the left.
Someone clearly did not do their due dillange when signing Ajose
My understanding was that Katrien knew Charlton needed a striker and Ajose was "chosen" because of his goals for Swindon the previous season and the deal to bring him to The Valley was a fait accompli before Slade had his feet under the desk.
Another example of people, not just Katrien meddling in football matters when they are not qualified to do so. Well meaning incompetence if you like.
are you deliberately missing my point ? .. I'm sure that Ajose in fact WAS a Slade signing just as you seem to be sure that he was signed at the behest of the ownership .. Ajose was signed after Slade was appointed manager .. can you 'prove' that he was signed over the head of Slade ? .. I doubt that you can .. as I can't 'prove'otherwise
all this 'understanding' that Meire was 'responsible' for Ajose's signing is pure conjecture, guess work, no-one knows what and how it all happened other than Slade and the owners ..
Meire is a total waste of space, but even so, she can't be blamed for every single mistake and mishap at CAFC
No I cannot. I just remember hearing at the time what SHG posted.
And I'd also agree that Miere sometimes gets overly blamed for things. I think Ajose is a player who made sense on paper, especially for a 4-4-2 manager. I just believe that our squad and our ambitions have outgrown him this summer.
Was Ajose a Slade signing? You don't spend 600-800 grand on a bloke who scored 25 goals the season before, if you are not going to set up the team around him to play off his strengths!
When Curbishley spent 700,000 in May 1997 on a fella up front, he knew how to get the best from him, which would benefit the team. He didn't leave him on the bench, or play him behind the main striker on the left.
Someone clearly did not do their due dillange when signing Ajose
No he was signed before Slade joined and apparently Slade didn't particularly rate or want him. He was signed during that transition period after the season but before Slade started. I can't remember who was advising on signings. Maybe that scout? Maybe a certain former manager? Either way, it just shows the complete lack of planning and continuity we have, even if I think we've "outgrown" Ajose and his style.
are you sure about this ? .. Slade was appointed on June 6th and Ajose signed after that date .. my memory is that Slade started with a 4 4 2 at Bury where we were wiped out by a more aggressive and bigger team .. Slade persevered with 4 4 2, Ajose scored a pair at Walsall and then we went into a slump of about 8 games without a win, so Slade went chicken and reverted to a 4 5 1 just using Magennis as a lone striker .. Ajose was the fall guy for the change of plan .. Slade was then sacked and new boy Robo had his own idiosyncratic ideas about personnel and formations that excluded Ajoses' talents for what they were worth, he was never the most diligent or perfect of strikers but I maintain that he was never given a good enough run during his time with us
He scored twice again Walsall, but either side of that the goals were pretty dry (I want to say he didn't score in the league either side). When you go 8 games without a win, you should change the system. The fact of the matter is that, when you're a poacher and you're not scoring goals, you're going to be dropped. Slade reverted to 4-4-2 in his last game against Swindon and we were awful. To be fair Ajose did look to get a little bit more involved in the build up, but not by much.
Robinson's system isn't idiosyncratic, it's arguably the most commonly used formation in football over the last decade. The fact that we had to overhaul the squad shows that some of our players, and arguably League One players, are tactically lacking. Robinson has been promoted out of this league before. He may have had good players, but he still had to go out and win games. He's far from perfect, but he has a style of play and he wants us to follow that. He's already leaps and bounds ahead of Slade in terms of coaching.
This is what I was referring to. He wasn't a Slade signing.
Was Ajose a Slade signing? You don't spend 600-800 grand on a bloke who scored 25 goals the season before, if you are not going to set up the team around him to play off his strengths!
When Curbishley spent 700,000 in May 1997 on a fella up front, he knew how to get the best from him, which would benefit the team. He didn't leave him on the bench, or play him behind the main striker on the left.
Someone clearly did not do their due dillange when signing Ajose
My understanding was that Katrien knew Charlton needed a striker and Ajose was "chosen" because of his goals for Swindon the previous season and the deal to bring him to The Valley was a fait accompli before Slade had his feet under the desk.
Another example of people, not just Katrien meddling in football matters when they are not qualified to do so. Well meaning incompetence if you like.
are you deliberately missing my point ? .. I'm sure that Ajose in fact WAS a Slade signing just as you seem to be sure that he was signed at the behest of the ownership .. Ajose was signed after Slade was appointed manager .. can you 'prove' that he was signed over the head of Slade ? .. I doubt that you can .. as I can't 'prove'otherwise
all this 'understanding' that Meire was 'responsible' for Ajose's signing is pure conjecture, guess work, no-one knows what and how it all happened other than Slade and the owners ..
Meire is a total waste of space, but even so, she can't be blamed for every single mistake and mishap at CAFC
No I cannot. I just remember hearing at the time what SHG posted.
And I'd also agree that Miere sometimes gets overly blamed for things. I think Ajose is a player who made sense on paper, especially for a 4-4-2 manager. I just believe that our squad and our ambitions have outgrown him this summer.
I agree that meire should not be blamed for every signing, Ajose was seen as a decent addition last summer, regardless of whether he was thoroughly scouted or bought simply because he scored a lot of goals the year before.
I dont think our squad or ambitions has outgrown him, it's simply because KR does not seem to rate him and more importantly, he is not a striker who fits the preferred system.
Was it Ajose or Novak who confirmed that his signing was lined up before Slade was recruited and then rubber-stamped? I think Novak but can't find the article.
Slade certainly had a veto because I know for a fact he used it, but Meire was lining up players before he arrived, no question.
Was it Ajose or Novak who confirmed that his signing was lined up before Slade was recruited and then rubber-stamped? I think Novak but can't find the article.
Slade certainly had a veto because I know for a fact he used it, but Meire was lining up players before he arrived, no question.
It was Novak I believe. He said he wanted to meet with the manager before he signed.
I would like to see a busier hard working team next season. I think it is the way to go in this league if you can inject some quality too. I want to see goal threats through the team, and if you are not a goal threat you better be good.
Was it Ajose or Novak who confirmed that his signing was lined up before Slade was recruited and then rubber-stamped? I think Novak but can't find the article.
Slade certainly had a veto because I know for a fact he used it, but Meire was lining up players before he arrived, no question.
Nothing wrong with that IF we have a club philosophy of how we want to play and a trusted scouting team. Unfortunately we have neither and she picked him out form a list of top scorers.
people mean to say Roland and co bought a player in that wasn't very good i'm shocked - 1st time for everything i suppose.
I don't think that's what people mean to say necessarily. In fact, I think there are some reason why signing Ajose made sense, and the regime got a lot of plaudits at the time of the signing. I think the bigger problem was neither Slade nor Robinson seem to fancy him, and I think this whole thing is part of a larger failure which is that we don't have a Director of Football or technical director or whatever who looks at signings and says "this is the type of system we want to play, these are the players that will be around them, let's either sign players that fit the system or tweak the system and sign players accordingly," and then managers are hired based on their ability to fit in to and play that system.
people mean to say Roland and co bought a player in that wasn't very good i'm shocked - 1st time for everything i suppose.
I don't think that's what people mean to say necessarily. In fact, I think there are some reason why signing Ajose made sense, and the regime got a lot of plaudits at the time of the signing. I think the bigger problem was neither Slade nor Robinson seem to fancy him, and I think this whole thing is part of a larger failure which is that we don't have a Director of Football or technical director or whatever who looks at signings and says "this is the type of system we want to play, these are the players that will be around them, let's either sign players that fit the system or tweak the system and sign players accordingly," and then managers are hired based on their ability to fit in to and play that system.
It's also not ideal when they hire a manager who plays his system, and then sack him after a few matches, hiring a new manager with a new system.
Not saying we should have kept Slade, just saying we go through so many managers how can players get used to a system knowing that it will be changing within a few months!
people mean to say Roland and co bought a player in that wasn't very good i'm shocked - 1st time for everything i suppose.
I don't think that's what people mean to say necessarily. In fact, I think there are some reason why signing Ajose made sense, and the regime got a lot of plaudits at the time of the signing. I think the bigger problem was neither Slade nor Robinson seem to fancy him, and I think this whole thing is part of a larger failure which is that we don't have a Director of Football or technical director or whatever who looks at signings and says "this is the type of system we want to play, these are the players that will be around them, let's either sign players that fit the system or tweak the system and sign players accordingly," and then managers are hired based on their ability to fit in to and play that system.
It's also not ideal when they hire a manager who plays his system, and then sack him after a few matches, hiring a new manager with a new system.
Not saying we should have kept Slade, just saying we go through so many managers how can players get used to a system knowing that it will be changing within a few months!
Is it really that hard though? These are professional footballers, surely they are bright enough to be able to adapt to different systems.
Was it Ajose or Novak who confirmed that his signing was lined up before Slade was recruited and then rubber-stamped? I think Novak but can't find the article.
Slade certainly had a veto because I know for a fact he used it, but Meire was lining up players before he arrived, no question.
A perfectly reasonable way to do business in my opinion, and I'm sure lots of clubs act similarly. For example a club like Southampton is able to change managers regularly, occasionally to the surprise of the wider football community, and seem to lose 1 or 2 key players every summer but have been able to repeatedly identify and sign a string of successful replacements and maintain some continuity despite all the churn of personnel.
Perhaps the key difference there is a club like Southampton will have the right people guiding those recruitment decisions. For what its worth, I think the appointment of Steve Head was a genuine attempt to put a football person at the centre of the process but it seems he may have been the wrong man and the structural adjustment was typically half hearted as a Director of Football should have also been brought in.
Rather than have courage of their convictions and stick to that structure the club now appears to have changed its mind again and reverted to a more traditional British structure where the first team manager is the at the centre of everything and he brings in his preferred scouts, coaches etc.
So far we have had the so called Football Manager scouting by numbers approach, the boardroom led approach and now the manager led approach. All of those approaches can can work to lesser or greater extent, in my opinion, as long as you have the right people working within them and the right checks and balances on those people. The trouble is, rather than actually learn lessons and make improvements, the club has given up completely on each approach after the first attempt and started almost completely a fresh leaving them with a whole new lot of beginners mistakes to make. This also means as well as the constant flux of players and managers we have also had the constant flux of approach and this is where the real damage has been done. We've not been rudderless, as such, but the captain is certainly steering as if he has had too much rum.
I'm not yet convinced by him, but I am hopeful now that Robinson seems to have been given a level of power that other managers have not been afforded, we will see the playing side taken in a more consistent direction, but the question is how long will he be allowed to steer us that way if he doesn't deliver success in short order.
people mean to say Roland and co bought a player in that wasn't very good i'm shocked - 1st time for everything i suppose.
I don't think that's what people mean to say necessarily. In fact, I think there are some reason why signing Ajose made sense, and the regime got a lot of plaudits at the time of the signing. I think the bigger problem was neither Slade nor Robinson seem to fancy him, and I think this whole thing is part of a larger failure which is that we don't have a Director of Football or technical director or whatever who looks at signings and says "this is the type of system we want to play, these are the players that will be around them, let's either sign players that fit the system or tweak the system and sign players accordingly," and then managers are hired based on their ability to fit in to and play that system.
It's also not ideal when they hire a manager who plays his system, and then sack him after a few matches, hiring a new manager with a new system.
Not saying we should have kept Slade, just saying we go through so many managers how can players get used to a system knowing that it will be changing within a few months!
Is it really that hard though? These are professional footballers, surely they are bright enough to be able to adapt to different systems.
in theory, I agree. But we see players even at the top playing well in certain formations/systems and not so well in others. Also dependant on the manager. I get the feeling Ajose and Slade didn't get on that well, and Robinson didn't seem to rate him either.
We talk about why players will want to join us knowing we're in a mess. I think even if the players sign (which they will as we are still a big club for the league), it does not mean that they will not be aware they could be playing under a different manager in a few months time. Possibly the reason the likes of Reeves and Martin have not agreed a deal yet.
people mean to say Roland and co bought a player in that wasn't very good i'm shocked - 1st time for everything i suppose.
I don't think that's what people mean to say necessarily. In fact, I think there are some reason why signing Ajose made sense, and the regime got a lot of plaudits at the time of the signing. I think the bigger problem was neither Slade nor Robinson seem to fancy him, and I think this whole thing is part of a larger failure which is that we don't have a Director of Football or technical director or whatever who looks at signings and says "this is the type of system we want to play, these are the players that will be around them, let's either sign players that fit the system or tweak the system and sign players accordingly," and then managers are hired based on their ability to fit in to and play that system.
It's also not ideal when they hire a manager who plays his system, and then sack him after a few matches, hiring a new manager with a new system.
Not saying we should have kept Slade, just saying we go through so many managers how can players get used to a system knowing that it will be changing within a few months!
Completely agree. In my mind it's why we would have a Director of Football or whatever because our SMT is devoid of footballing experience, and thus should not be relied upon to execute this task.
By the way, I'd imagine there are a fair few boards who wouldn't necessarily be capable of directing the footballing side of things. But what other boards do is they hire people to fill the gaps they don't understand, then they listen to those people. What's so frustrating is that is a transferable skill amongst anyone who has had even a remotely successful career in business, or just has good life skills.
people mean to say Roland and co bought a player in that wasn't very good i'm shocked - 1st time for everything i suppose.
I don't think that's what people mean to say necessarily. In fact, I think there are some reason why signing Ajose made sense, and the regime got a lot of plaudits at the time of the signing. I think the bigger problem was neither Slade nor Robinson seem to fancy him, and I think this whole thing is part of a larger failure which is that we don't have a Director of Football or technical director or whatever who looks at signings and says "this is the type of system we want to play, these are the players that will be around them, let's either sign players that fit the system or tweak the system and sign players accordingly," and then managers are hired based on their ability to fit in to and play that system.
It's also not ideal when they hire a manager who plays his system, and then sack him after a few matches, hiring a new manager with a new system.
Not saying we should have kept Slade, just saying we go through so many managers how can players get used to a system knowing that it will be changing within a few months!
Completely agree. In my mind it's why we would have a Director of Football or whatever because our SMT is devoid of footballing experience, and thus should not be relied upon to execute this task.
By the way, I'd imagine there are a fair few boards who wouldn't necessarily be capable of directing the footballing side of things. But what other boards do is they hire people to fill the gaps they don't understand, then they listen to those people. What's so frustrating is that is a transferable skill amongst anyone who has had even a remotely successful career in business, or just has good life skills.
Still slagging him off on here but factually he is the best striker we had. No other current strikers has scored more at this level than him
There's more to it than stats. Robinson wants to play a lone striker in a team playing with a lot of energy, pressing etc. Ajose doesn't fit that in any way, at best he'd be a sub unless Robinson switched to a formation with 2 strikers. I doubt Ajose wants to be in that position when other clubs in our league would take him and play him regularly.
Comments
And I'd also agree that Miere sometimes gets overly blamed for things. I think Ajose is a player who made sense on paper, especially for a 4-4-2 manager. I just believe that our squad and our ambitions have outgrown him this summer.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/37958878
He scored the fifth with a screamer against Bristol Rovers.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/37982572
And if memory serves was awful against Sheff United (though he was not alone).
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/38035539
I dont think our squad or ambitions has outgrown him, it's simply because KR does not seem to rate him and more importantly, he is not a striker who fits the preferred system.
Slade certainly had a veto because I know for a fact he used it, but Meire was lining up players before he arrived, no question.
Not saying we should have kept Slade, just saying we go through so many managers how can players get used to a system knowing that it will be changing within a few months!
These are professional footballers, surely they are bright enough to be able to adapt to different systems.
Perhaps the key difference there is a club like Southampton will have the right people guiding those recruitment decisions. For what its worth, I think the appointment of Steve Head was a genuine attempt to put a football person at the centre of the process but it seems he may have been the wrong man and the structural adjustment was typically half hearted as a Director of Football should have also been brought in.
Rather than have courage of their convictions and stick to that structure the club now appears to have changed its mind again and reverted to a more traditional British structure where the first team manager is the at the centre of everything and he brings in his preferred scouts, coaches etc.
So far we have had the so called Football Manager scouting by numbers approach, the boardroom led approach and now the manager led approach. All of those approaches can can work to lesser or greater extent, in my opinion, as long as you have the right people working within them and the right checks and balances on those people. The trouble is, rather than actually learn lessons and make improvements, the club has given up completely on each approach after the first attempt and started almost completely a fresh leaving them with a whole new lot of beginners mistakes to make. This also means as well as the constant flux of players and managers we have also had the constant flux of approach and this is where the real damage has been done. We've not been rudderless, as such, but the captain is certainly steering as if he has had too much rum.
I'm not yet convinced by him, but I am hopeful now that Robinson seems to have been given a level of power that other managers have not been afforded, we will see the playing side taken in a more consistent direction, but the question is how long will he be allowed to steer us that way if he doesn't deliver success in short order.
We talk about why players will want to join us knowing we're in a mess. I think even if the players sign (which they will as we are still a big club for the league), it does not mean that they will not be aware they could be playing under a different manager in a few months time. Possibly the reason the likes of Reeves and Martin have not agreed a deal yet.
By the way, I'd imagine there are a fair few boards who wouldn't necessarily be capable of directing the footballing side of things. But what other boards do is they hire people to fill the gaps they don't understand, then they listen to those people. What's so frustrating is that is a transferable skill amongst anyone who has had even a remotely successful career in business, or just has good life skills.