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Buying a new car

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    Rob7Lee said:

    "If it appreciates - buy it, if it depreciates - lease it"
    Paul Getty

    Madness if the lease cost is greater than the depreciation plus a few %.

    Lots of nearly new deals out there. I got my father in law a Honda Jazz with a grand total of 232 miles on it and 2 months old and abou £4K off.

    New cars are expensive these days for what they are, so doubly make sure whatever you get it's what you want. Personally I tend to buy German much to my late grandfathers disgust (he didn't talk to me for about 6 months the 1st time I bought an Audi). Generally strong cars with strong residuals as well.
    The Paul Getty strategy is based on the premise that the interest on the depreciation is more than paid for by the return on the capital he has in his pocket to invest by not buying a ton of scrap metal at 50 times its market value.

    If you don't have the cash in the first place and have to borrow the money, do you borrow small amounts regularly by leasing, or larger amounts infrequently to buy outright. It will mostly come down to what best fits your ability to service debt. Either way you are reducing your disposable income to pay for depreciation, the difference is the amount of accumulative depreciation, the accumulative cost and how even or uneven is that cost spread over time.

    Getty would argue that the cost includes the opportunity cost of tying up capital, and for him buying outright is more expensive. If you have little capital, or your capital is just sitting on deposit and there's nothing you want to spend it on, you will disagree with Getty.
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    Being a car salesman myself, we usually get the equivalent of 1-monthly rate as commission on any finance deal we close out.

    Cheers @Stuart the Red that would explain it. I used to be the case that cash was king, I can't think why that was. ;)
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    Always be happy to walk away. It is their job to sell you the car, not yours to buy it!

    I went into Fords to buy a car back in February, the dealer gave so much nonsense I lost the appetite for a new car, walked away and decided to run my old car into the ground.
    Some of these dealers must believe you leave your brain at the door.
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    Always be happy to walk away. It is their job to sell you the car, not yours to buy it!

    I went into Fords to buy a car back in February, the dealer gave so much nonsense I lost the appetite for a new car, walked away and decided to run my old car into the ground.
    Some of these dealers must believe you leave your brain at the door.
    There's a lot of bullshitters about and, unfortunately, they give us all a bad name.
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    cafc-west said:

    Quite often dealers will make a 'contribution' to the cost of the car if you sign up to buy on credit. Do this and then pay it off (if you have the cash) - normally have to wait 3 months to avoid any penalty.
    Did this with Nissan once to get a £1500 contribution that wouldn't have got if paid cash up front.

    All consumer credit deals have to have a 14 day 'cooling off' period - if you get a better price signing up for finance when you have the full price available - sign up for the finance deal, means you buy the car from the finance company, change your mind on the finance, cancel the finance deal, pay off the reduced price.

    Fiat 500 petrol engines don't last reliably beyond about 50 or 60k even with servicing per the schedule and the semi-auto gearboxes are always temperamental. Not an economic long term proposition.
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    Rob7Lee said:

    If you must buy new look here: https://www.carwow.co.uk

    I'd always buy cash at the moment,

    this .. and remember FIAT .. translates as Fix It Again Tony (just kidding all my Italian friends xx)
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    cafc-west said:

    Quite often dealers will make a 'contribution' to the cost of the car if you sign up to buy on credit. Do this and then pay it off (if you have the cash) - normally have to wait 3 months to avoid any penalty.
    Did this with Nissan once to get a £1500 contribution that wouldn't have got if paid cash up front.

    All consumer credit deals have to have a 14 day 'cooling off' period - if you get a better price signing up for finance when you have the full price available - sign up for the finance deal, means you buy the car from the finance company, change your mind on the finance, cancel the finance deal, pay off the reduced price.

    Fiat 500 petrol engines don't last reliably beyond about 50 or 60k even with servicing per the schedule and the semi-auto gearboxes are always temperamental. Not an economic long term proposition.
    Thanks, Stig. Is there a fixed period in which to do this?
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    cafc-west said:

    Quite often dealers will make a 'contribution' to the cost of the car if you sign up to buy on credit. Do this and then pay it off (if you have the cash) - normally have to wait 3 months to avoid any penalty.
    Did this with Nissan once to get a £1500 contribution that wouldn't have got if paid cash up front.

    All consumer credit deals have to have a 14 day 'cooling off' period - if you get a better price signing up for finance when you have the full price available - sign up for the finance deal, means you buy the car from the finance company, change your mind on the finance, cancel the finance deal, pay off the reduced price.

    Fiat 500 petrol engines don't last reliably beyond about 50 or 60k even with servicing per the schedule and the semi-auto gearboxes are always temperamental. Not an economic long term proposition.
    Thanks, Stig. Is there a fixed period in which to do this?
    14 days bro
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    I just ordered a brand new three door MINI Cooper S hatchback the other day. I should be getting it sometime in November. I had an old Rover Mini Cooper which I sold within a couple of days of the advert going on Autotrader. It just wasn't practical to keep it. I only ever tended to take it out when the weather was dry. It was kept under cover. Now my boys are getting older and have after school clubs and I needed the car for the occassional drive to work at the weekend when the wife also needed it, I decided to get a more practical second car. The Rover Cooper was in really good condition so I was sad to see it go but I'm looking forward to getting the new MINI. I've never had a brand new car before. I've always gone for second hand ones with very low mileage, like an ex-demonstrator's car. I would have gone for a second hand one again but the new MINI comes with so many options they didn't have any cars with the optional extras I liked so I went for one with all the optional extras I really wanted. I haggled down the price quite well and got the dealer to put in some extra cash and op[tional extras to sweeten the deal.
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    Aren't you better off buying something that's 1 year old? You'd save £2,000 straight away.

    Also the Fiat 500 design is getting on a bit. New Fiesta is round the corner. I'd wait for that.
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    As used car prices are pretty high,  I decided to keep an eye also on the new ones of the model we would like. (Don't even want to change car but ULEZ is 'coming')

    Anyway, on one dealer's website, the new coming soon ones are listed alongside other new and used.

    The price of coming soon ones was pretty low. I knew something was up, but hoped this may be because the model was being discontinued and they were trying to clear the cars they had.

    Turns out that the VAT wasn't being displayed on these 10+ coming soon cars (although stating the price shown was the Total Price), whilst other cars on the same webpage did have VAT included. 

    Obviously, it was in the small print (on all the cars) that VAT may be applicable to any purchase, but misleading nonetheless.

    Is this usual for some dealers?


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    As used car prices are pretty high,  I decided to keep an eye also on the new ones of the model we would like. (Don't even want to change car but ULEZ is 'coming')

    Anyway, on one dealer's website, the new coming soon ones are listed alongside other new and used.

    The price of coming soon ones was pretty low. I knew something was up, but hoped this may be because the model was being discontinued and they were trying to clear the cars they had.

    Turns out that the VAT wasn't being displayed on these 10+ coming soon cars (although stating the price shown was the Total Price), whilst other cars on the same webpage did have VAT included. 

    Obviously, it was in the small print (on all the cars) that VAT may be applicable to any purchase, but misleading nonetheless.

    Is this usual for some dealers?


    No. VAT must be included in prices advertised to consumers.  It would be a breach of the ASA code I believe.  I think this is different for commercial vehicles, vans, etc because they are deemed to be bought by businesses. 

    https://www.asa.org.uk/news/to-include-or-not-to-include-vat-in-stated-prices.html#:~:text=Include the VAT when any,to quote VAT-inclusive prices.

    (Charlton frequently get this wrong when advertising hospitality prices.)
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    Ah interesting. When I spoke to the dealership, they didn’t really understand either but thought that they may be listed as commercial even though they are a family car.

    Regarding my search, I have also looked at about 6 discounters but none have access to stock. Nationwide had it for a very good price but I have missed that boat unfortunately.
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    We bought a nearly new car a couple of years ago with 6000 miles on the clock and could sell it for significantly more today despite its increased age and mileage, if we wanted to. Of course it would mean buying a new car at a higher price if we did.
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    Going off on a tangent but I bought a new car in March and traded in the old one (yes I know but I'm lazy) and recently I asked the dealer what happened to it. He said they sold it to someone in Thailand! Although they drive on the same side of the road as us, I still find that a bit odd.
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    My son is in a ballot for a new GR Corolla.  NZ have only been allocated 150 of these cars in 2023 and they are being released in three batches.  The first ballot was oversubscribed by hundreds so here’s hoping for better luck next time.


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    cafcfan said:
    Going off on a tangent but I bought a new car in March and traded in the old one (yes I know but I'm lazy) and recently I asked the dealer what happened to it. He said they sold it to someone in Thailand! Although they drive on the same side of the road as us, I still find that a bit odd.
    Tons of cars end up abroad from here. Hungarians, Albanians have a huge appetite for VAG cars, age doesn't bother them neither seemibgly, does how legitimately the vehicle was obtained 
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    My son is in a ballot for a new GR Corolla.  NZ have only been allocated 150 of these cars in 2023 and they are being released in three batches.  The first ballot was oversubscribed by hundreds so here’s hoping for better luck next time.



    It won't be available in the UK - unfortunately :(
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    bobmunro said:
    My son is in a ballot for a new GR Corolla.  NZ have only been allocated 150 of these cars in 2023 and they are being released in three batches.  The first ballot was oversubscribed by hundreds so here’s hoping for better luck next time.



    It won't be available in the UK - unfortunately :(
    That's a shame, my mate has a Yaris GR, great little thing.
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    Marketing at it's finest.  Competing to be allowed to buy a new car.  
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    Marketing at it's finest.  Competing to be allowed to buy a new car.  
    Agree. I love cars and you want a decent one to get you from a to b reliably but that should be it. Certainly shouldn't be something you use to show off and if it performs too well you will get points and lose your license.
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    Took my 2 year old Focus in for a service this week and they asked to have a chat about next car. When I’d spoken to them earlier on the phone, they’d said we were talking about next year, when the Options contract is due. 

    Salesman did a check over the car & ran the numbers. I’ve got £5k positive equity in the car and they’re offering the next Options deal at 3.9% this month (June). Normal rate closer to 9% (according to the spiel). Turns out they can do the new car in 4 weeks if I want it. They’ve discontinued my model though, so I’m having to look at next model down & add the extras. I’ll leave the one they’ve offered (as it didn’t have one extra I wanted) but do the deal this month to get the promotion, even if I have to wait longer for the car. 

    Certainly plenty of deals out there and the used market is really strong, so you could get a better than expected deposit for a new one. 
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    I had some issues with my car recently (10 year old Peugeot, so yeah, my own fault) but having looked at the cost of replacing it decided to pay the big bill for fixing the problem, a ridiculously located failed water pipe, rather than flogging it. Prices have gone mad.
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    Marketing at it's finest.  Competing to be allowed to buy a new car.  
    Agree. I love cars and you want a decent one to get you from a to b reliably but that should be it. Certainly shouldn't be something you use to show off and if it performs too well you will get points and lose your license.
    That wouldn't be all that great for the car industry as we would all be driving the same car.

    Some people view cars as a utility, others because they like the design/spec, some because of the performance (acceleration more than top speed), others for comfort and some because they want to show off. It takes all sorts to make a world.

    As far as competing to be able (not allowed) to buy a particular car then that is no different to any 'limited edition' product.

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    On Wednesday I ordered a Volvo EV.  I  would have liked to get a better deal but I only found outthe previous day that Volvo are moving from franchises to agencies for their dealerships.  The effect is that you are buying direct from the manufacturer who controls the price ie same across all uk dealerships.  The dealer gets a 5% fee and can sell you service and other insurances.  Mercedes went to the agency model 3 months ago and many other manufacturers are planning the same move.  The manufacturers are happy and so, apparently, are dealers so guess who loses out !
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    edited June 2023
    bobmunro said:
    Marketing at it's finest.  Competing to be allowed to buy a new car.  
    Agree. I love cars and you want a decent one to get you from a to b reliably but that should be it. Certainly shouldn't be something you use to show off and if it performs too well you will get points and lose your license.
    That wouldn't be all that great for the car industry as we would all be driving the same car.

    Some people view cars as a utility, others because they like the design/spec, some because of the performance (acceleration more than top speed), others for comfort and some because they want to show off. It takes all sorts to make a world.

    As far as competing to be able (not allowed) to buy a particular car then that is no different to any 'limited edition' product.

    I have always been fascinated by the design of family cars. Yes I can see the beauty in sports/super cars but the compromises and designs of family cars is where there true talent is, like getting a lot of room in a small space and safety. Much harder to do. When I was a kid I would design a version of cars like the Marina using the measurements from What Car magazine and loved the design of the Mini Metro. Also love Giugiaro and yes Harris Mann and Giugiaro designed the Lotus Esprit which I love as a thing of beauty but wouldn't want to own.

    My demands on a car are that it is reliable, comfortable, economical, safe for my family, can keep up with traffic and has enough room for my needs. There will always be a better one around the corner so you will never be content if you stray too far away from these demands. I don't covert a bigger house or another car and I believe I am happier because of it and being debt free. Being happy with what you have got is one of the secrets of life that you have to discover for yourself. Of course it helps if you have got what you need.
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    edited June 2023
    bobmunro said:
    Marketing at it's finest.  Competing to be allowed to buy a new car.  
    Agree. I love cars and you want a decent one to get you from a to b reliably but that should be it. Certainly shouldn't be something you use to show off and if it performs too well you will get points and lose your license.
    That wouldn't be all that great for the car industry as we would all be driving the same car.

    Some people view cars as a utility, others because they like the design/spec, some because of the performance (acceleration more than top speed), others for comfort and some because they want to show off. It takes all sorts to make a world.

    As far as competing to be able (not allowed) to buy a particular car then that is no different to any 'limited edition' product.

    I have always been fascinated by the design of family cars. Yes I can see the beauty in sports/super cars but the compromises and designs of family cars is where there true talent is, like getting a lot of room in a small space and safety. Much harder to do. When I was a kid I would design a version of cars like the Marina using the measurements from What Car magazine and loved the design of the Mini Metro. Also love Giugiaro and yes Harris Mann and Giugiaro designed the Lotus Esprit which I love as a thing of beauty but wouldn't want to own.

    My demands on a car are that it is reliable, comfortable, economical, safe for my family, can keep up with traffic and has enough room for my needs. There will always be a better one around the corner so you will never be content if you stray too far away from these demands. I don't covert a bigger house or another car and I believe I am happier because of it and being debt free. Being happy with what you have got is one of the secrets of life that you have to discover for yourself. Of course it helps if you have got what you need.
    So fun don't come into it? I like to have a car I look forward to driving.
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    I enjoy driving my car. Do people enjoy driving modern cars more than old cars? My car is better than most older cars were. People enjoyed their cars just as much then as they do now. We are just conditioned to get the best TV and best car and many get them on the never never. 
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    I very much like both elements of your post, @MuttleyCAFC

    My first car was a little Morris 1100 and after it went to the scrapper (rust, of course) it was a long time before I owned anything better designed. I had bigger cars but nothing with more interior space, the thing was a wonder. Admittedly I've always bought oldish cars so my driving career in the 80s and 90s involved A LOT of shit heaps. I must have had about 30 cars over the years, some for as little as a month or two, but the last handful have lasted an average of five years or so, none costing more than two grand, and none needing much money spent. "It's just a car" is my justification, but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate good design and build quality. Comfort is a massively underrated attribute and I hated Mrs Idle's company Astra which I couldn't drive for half an hour without getting terrible backache. But I think enjoyment from driving is as much about the road you're on as the car you're in. You can have as much fun in a shitty old 205 on a twisty lane as in a Maserati on an autobahn.

    I'm a bit contemptuous of the kind of person that feels the need to drive a supercar, but I suppose that might be rooted in deep-seated suppressed envy. But if I'd won euromillions last night (haven't checked yet) I'd buy a Saab 900 turbo, and stick with it.




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