Haven't seen the series but have always been fascinated by the Vietnam War, as it dominated the news of my teenage years. Went there about 8 years ago. Travelled from Hanoi down to Ho Chi Minh City/ Saigon mainly by plane over a 3 week period. Had Vietnamese guides throughout. One of them had parents who had been part of the Ho Chi Minh Trail, another had been a young man in Da Nang during the war.
Highlight of the trip for me was Hue, where evidence of the Tet Offensive is still very evident. I would advise anyone visiting Vietnam to make a visit there.
If you are interested in history then I would highly recommend a visit based around the war. From a purely tourist point of view, Hanoi is amazing (personally preferred it HCMC/Saigon. Also loved Hoi An. Halong Bay as you would expect is extremely touristy, but having said that an overnight boat trip there was lovely. Also the overnight train from Hanoi to Sapa (mountainous area) was an experience.
It's without doubt , in my opinion , right up there with The World at War as one of the best TV documentaries ever made.
Totally agree. I have The World at War boxset. The episode on Stalingrad in particular was unbelievable. The full horror of war right there in that one hour episode.
Up to episode 5. Brilliant documentary told from both sides of the war and there was a wise comment about how America always sees itself as the good guy fighting against evil yet carried out some atrocities of their own against bystanders caught between the VC and America. Not much has changed since then.
, but having said that an overnight boat trip there was lovely. Also the overnight train from Hanoi to Sapa (mountainous area) was an experience.
Sapa is one of the most beautiful places on earth and now only a few hours on the train from my house!
I've not seen the latest two episodes, but I'm planning on getting through them tonight after work, I've really enjoyed it so far, especially having known very little about what happened before visiting Vietnam.
I guess the documentary sets the scene, I'll have to get watching, but recall at the time the justification was the "domino affect" and that if Vietnam fell, Communism would take over and China and Russia would rule the World.
I guess the documentary sets the scene, I'll have to get watching, but recall at the time the justification was the "domino affect" and that if Vietnam fell, Communism would take over and China and Russia would rule the World.
Which obviously wouldn't have happened. It highlights the obsession the Americans had with communism back then. Just look what happened in Hollywood in the late 40's.
it's certainly in depth stuff .. I have just started catch up on iPlayer .. Interesting that Kennedy was assassinated just three weeks after a coup in S Vietnam and the execution/murder of the deposed ruling brothers ..
in all the many words I have read about Kennedy's killing, I can't remember this ever being mentioned before .. room for another conspiracy theory ?
Would recommend it to anyone interested in this sort of stuff.
Thanks v much for highlighting this. Now catching up on iPlayer. Despite having lived through the era, there's so much I was just unaware of. I'd have probably just missed it completely otherwise. Still, as long as the Beeb focus on doing trailers for shite like Strictly.... #dumbingdown
Watched the final two episodes last night and I have to say there were a few tears shed. What a TV Series! Everyone should be made to watch this if only to learn from the mistakes that were made . Sadly that won’t be the case .
I’ve just downloaded the Ken Burns series he made a few years ago on The America civil war . It’s available on catchup on SKY.
It was a good qualty programme. Two iconic moments for me - The little girl running from the napalm attack and the queue on the steps of the embassy helipad.
The scenes detailing the final assault on Saigon and the subsequent evacuation were pretty intense. Had no idea what went on after the Americans officially pulled out.
I have heard similar criticisms, albeit not from Peter "Obama lost the Iraq War look at how dumb it is NOW in 2010 (#HotTake)" Van Buren.
I haven't watched the documentary yet, but have heard it goes quite easy on the countless war criminals involved on the US side. Would be curious to know what people think.
Also, if you enjoyed it I recommend "Fog of War" a documentary which is basically a running conversation with Bob McNamara about all of the war crimes he saw in his 25 years between the Military and DoD. It's interesting, it shows that people who make deadly decisions are humans and thus flawed, but when I was watching it the only thing I could think was "Shouldn't you be telling this to the court in The Hague... Like, these are a lot of war crimes you're admitting to overseeing my dude."
Don't beat yourself up to much about American war criminals SD. The Vietcong/ North Vietnamese were quite adept at murdering civilians and American/ allied prisoners.
Don't best yourself up to much about American war criminals SD. The Vietcong/ North Vietnamese were quite adept at murdering civilians and American/ allied prisoners.
Yeah but that doesn't make it Ok. There is also the question of what we were doing there in the first place.
And in Fog of War the war crimes described during the fire bombing of Japan are horrendous, and as we know the terrible acts carried out by the allies during that war have been overlooked by history.
Don't best yourself up to much about American war criminals SD. The Vietcong/ North Vietnamese were quite adept at murdering civilians and American/ allied prisoners.
Yeah but that doesn't make it Ok. There is also the question of what we were doing there in the first place.
And in Fog of War the war crimes described during the fire bombing of Japan are horrendous, and as we know the terrible acts carried out by the allies during that war have been overlooked by history.
Don't best yourself up to much about American war criminals SD. The Vietcong/ North Vietnamese were quite adept at murdering civilians and American/ allied prisoners.
Yeah but that doesn't make it Ok. There is also the question of what we were doing there in the first place.
And in Fog of War the war crimes described during the fire bombing of Japan are horrendous, and as we know the terrible acts carried out by the allies during that war have been overlooked by history.
I would dispute that.
Oh can I ask why?
I just realized I should have added "in the US" to the end of that sentence because it may be that things are taught and remembered completely differently elsewhere. But here, the firebombing of Dresden is really only taught through Slaughterhouse V, and the firebombing of Japan is pretty much glossed over. And in schools it seems the dropping of the atomic bomb is treated as an inevitability and bolstered as "a message to the Russians" instead of being treated with the skepticism it deserves.
Don't best yourself up to much about American war criminals SD. The Vietcong/ North Vietnamese were quite adept at murdering civilians and American/ allied prisoners.
Yeah but that doesn't make it Ok. There is also the question of what we were doing there in the first place.
And in Fog of War the war crimes described during the fire bombing of Japan are horrendous, and as we know the terrible acts carried out by the allies during that war have been overlooked by history.
you were there to stop communist expansion through Asia.
Don't best yourself up to much about American war criminals SD. The Vietcong/ North Vietnamese were quite adept at murdering civilians and American/ allied prisoners.
Yeah but that doesn't make it Ok. There is also the question of what we were doing there in the first place.
And in Fog of War the war crimes described during the fire bombing of Japan are horrendous, and as we know the terrible acts carried out by the allies during that war have been overlooked by history.
you were there to stop communist expansion through Asia.
Except the domino theory was nonsense and remains nonsense and yet there was next to no internal criticism as the CIA and the Military and politicians and the President continued to ramp things up until we had 1,000,000 dead Vietnamese, 50,000 dead and something like 100,000 wounded American Troops over a war of colonialism.
And that doesn't include the countless numbers who came home with PTSD or the knock on effect that lead to the rise of Pol Pot who killed millions.
In the end Vietnam unified under a Communist government and the rest of southeast Asia didn't fall behind the red curtain.
Comments
The article, on the other hand, is vain, pompous, pretentious and highly opinionated and blinkered nonsense.
Highlight of the trip for me was Hue, where evidence of the Tet Offensive is still very evident. I would advise anyone visiting Vietnam to make a visit there.
If you are interested in history then I would highly recommend a visit based around the war. From a purely tourist point of view, Hanoi is amazing (personally preferred it HCMC/Saigon. Also loved Hoi An. Halong Bay as you would expect is extremely touristy, but having said that an overnight boat trip there was lovely. Also the overnight train from Hanoi to Sapa (mountainous area) was an experience.
Will watch the series on catch up.
I've not seen the latest two episodes, but I'm planning on getting through them tonight after work, I've really enjoyed it so far, especially having known very little about what happened before visiting Vietnam.
Gotta love the beeb.
"Do you have a TV license?"
"Yup!"
"In you go"
Interesting that Kennedy was assassinated just three weeks after a coup in S Vietnam and the execution/murder of the deposed ruling brothers ..
in all the many words I have read about Kennedy's killing, I can't remember this ever being mentioned before .. room for another conspiracy theory ?
What a TV Series!
Everyone should be made to watch this if only to learn from the mistakes that were made .
Sadly that won’t be the case .
I’ve just downloaded the Ken Burns series he made a few years ago on The America civil war . It’s available on catchup on SKY.
Two iconic moments for me -
The little girl running from the napalm attack and the queue on the steps of the embassy helipad.
The scenes detailing the final assault on Saigon and the subsequent evacuation were pretty intense. Had no idea what went on after the Americans officially pulled out.
Basically washed their hands of it all.
I haven't watched the documentary yet, but have heard it goes quite easy on the countless war criminals involved on the US side. Would be curious to know what people think.
Also, if you enjoyed it I recommend "Fog of War" a documentary which is basically a running conversation with Bob McNamara about all of the war crimes he saw in his 25 years between the Military and DoD. It's interesting, it shows that people who make deadly decisions are humans and thus flawed, but when I was watching it the only thing I could think was "Shouldn't you be telling this to the court in The Hague... Like, these are a lot of war crimes you're admitting to overseeing my dude."
And in Fog of War the war crimes described during the fire bombing of Japan are horrendous, and as we know the terrible acts carried out by the allies during that war have been overlooked by history.
I just realized I should have added "in the US" to the end of that sentence because it may be that things are taught and remembered completely differently elsewhere. But here, the firebombing of Dresden is really only taught through Slaughterhouse V, and the firebombing of Japan is pretty much glossed over. And in schools it seems the dropping of the atomic bomb is treated as an inevitability and bolstered as "a message to the Russians" instead of being treated with the skepticism it deserves.
Would like to hear your thoughts.
And that doesn't include the countless numbers who came home with PTSD or the knock on effect that lead to the rise of Pol Pot who killed millions.
In the end Vietnam unified under a Communist government and the rest of southeast Asia didn't fall behind the red curtain.