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Speeding - M25, temp speed limit.

johnnybev1987johnnybev1987
in Not Sports Related
Hi all, i got a letter from Kent police yesterday. The letter states i committed the offence on 10th September 2017, this is over a month ago and the letter is signed 16th October.
This was going anti-clockwise by the swanley turn off, they had enforced 40mph limit (apparently) although i do not remember this but it was only a month ago. One of my mates did pull something up from a solicitor who specialises in Road Traffic incidents where it states if its not served within 14 days of the offence you can get away with this, has anyone else ever done this or heard of anything similar?

I am in two minds whether to challenge, i have logged on and can clearly see my car in the photos and i would definitely be driving. I was going 56mph at the time, so if i just accept it then hopeful they just offer me a speed awareness course as i havent been offered before, although due to how much over the limit i am not sure whether it will be offered.

I have also read whether it will be Band A, B or C and based on the speed it would be bang on B which would mean 75%-125% weekly wage.

Interested in peoples comments as ever, i will most likely just confirm i am the driver and accept the points/fine but just looking at other options.
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Comments

  • i_b_b_o_r_gi_b_b_o_r_g
    Do the crime, serve the time
  • Rob7LeeRob7Lee
    Unless the law has recently changed you are right about the 14 days. There are some caveats such as long as your V5 address was up to date etc, postal strike, bank hols erc. But if it’s dated over a month later just write back to Kent police disputing it as you didn’t receive it within the required 14 days.

  • bucksheebuckshee
    The law hasn’t changed in the respect of if you’re doing 56 in a 40 you’re breaking it.

    In all honesty those variable things are a strange one , how the hell do they prove that it was set at the temp speed of 40mph?
  • johnnybev1987johnnybev1987
    buckshee said:

    The law hasn’t changed in the respect of if you’re doing 56 in a 40 you’re breaking it.

    In all honesty those variable things are a strange one , how the hell do they prove that it was set at the temp speed of 40mph?

    I thought as much, however there is a photo which clearly shows me going past the 40 MPH sign, although no proof i was actually doing 56 but i guess they aren't going to put it for no reason. Had to zoom in the photo and could see my car clearly :(
  • guinnessaddickguinnessaddick
    Was this the first sign? Where does the limit zone begin?
  • johnnybev1987johnnybev1987
    guinnessaddick said:

    Was this the first sign? Where does the limit zone begin?

    I am not sure, i dont remember the photo shows me just going past it but i dont know if it was 1st sign or 2nd it was too long ago.

    At present i will try my luck and say it wasn't issued within 14 days, its clearly dated over a month after the incident, if i dont get away with it i will just pay/ get a fine. Lesson learnt.
  • bobmunrobobmunro
    Fiiish said:

    Glad to see our police are putting their increasingly stretched valuable resources to catching the real criminals especially when they're announcing they cannot attend burglaries.

    56mph on a motorway? Throw the key away.

    70mph on a motorway is at times stupidly slow. There are many laws I disagree with but accept the consequences should I break them. If the variable limit was set at 40 then 56mph is breaking the law.
  • cafcfancafcfan
    You have, I guess, received a Notice of Intended Prosecution (NIP)? (I think any fixed penalty notice follows if the matter is not serious enough for direct referral to the Courts?)

    As you'd expect, there is a massive amount of stuff on-line about this. Try pepipoo.com first. (If you want to use their NIP wizard rather than just read the stuff on the site I believe you have to register but that's no big deal.)

    BTW a NIP only has to be served on the registered keeper within 14 days from the day after the offence. The RK is then obliged to grass up the driver. If the RK is different from the driver it could explain the extra time?

    With much anecdotal evidence of insurers using three points on a licence as an excuse to massively hike car insurance premia, I'd fight it if you think you have a chance.

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  • ShootersHillGuruShootersHillGuru
    Just booked a speed awareness course yesterday after picking up a speeding offence on the M4 in Avon in July.

    £92 fecking quid for the four and half hour course but it's better than the other option of £100 fine and three points.
  • GreenieGreenie
    Notice of intent to prosecute must be within 14 days as I understand it, so fight the stealth tax that has just been served on you.
  • RedChaserRedChaser
    edited October 2017
    ShootersHillGuru said:

    Just booked a speed awareness course yesterday after picking up a speeding offence on the M4 in Avon in July.

    £92 fecking quid for the four and half hour course but it's better than the other option of £100 fine and three points.

    Tut, Tut SHG you being a man of leisure these days and presumably all the time in the world on your hands................there but for the grace of god go I :wink:
  • johnnybev1987johnnybev1987
    Another thing to add, which i didn't realise at the time. Someone from work asked about the log book, i got the car probably April this year or around then. I am not sure i have ever received a logbook and its on lease, so essentially they could have previously issued to the wrong address so could be why it took too long, need to check my paperwork but don't remember ever receiving a logbook which i didn't really think of.

    This massively changes it because it states from when it was issued unless it has gone to the wrong address or RK.

    Thanks for your input all, i think i should just fill it in accept liability and await the consequences
  • RedChaserRedChaser
    Smart motorways with variable speed limits pah..............some stretches seem to be permanently set at 50 or 60 in some parts of the country. What's the point when it just encourages vehicles to speed up between cameras; change them to average speed cameras and have done with it. good luck johnnybev with whatever transpires.
  • johnnybev1987johnnybev1987
    RedChaser said:

    Smart motorways with variable speed limits pah..............some stretches seem to be permanently set at 50 or 60 in some parts of the country. What's the point when it just encourages vehicles to speed up between cameras; change them to average speed cameras and have done with it. good luck johnnybev with whatever transpires.

    Thanks RC, dont get me started on the average speed cameras when i used to go to Bournemouth every so often they used to grate on me.
  • kings hill addickkings hill addick
    johnnybev1987 said:

    Hi all, i got a letter from Kent police yesterday. The letter states i committed the offence on 10th September 2017, this is over a month ago and the letter is signed 16th October.
    This was going anti-clockwise by the swanley turn off, they had enforced 40mph limit (apparently) although i do not remember this but it was only a month ago. One of my mates did pull something up from a solicitor who specialises in Road Traffic incidents where it states if its not served within 14 days of the offence you can get away with this, has anyone else ever done this or heard of anything similar?

    I am in two minds whether to challenge, i have logged on and can clearly see my car in the photos and i would definitely be driving. I was going 56mph at the time, so if i just accept it then hopeful they just offer me a speed awareness course as i havent been offered before, although due to how much over the limit i am not sure whether it will be offered.

    I have also read whether it will be Band A, B or C and based on the speed it would be bang on B which would mean 75%-125% weekly wage.

    Interested in peoples comments as ever, i will most likely just confirm i am the driver and accept the points/fine but just looking at other options.

    Can anyone explain why there is a salary based fine if they issue fixed penalty fines? Have I missed something?
  • cafcpolocafcpolo
    johnnybev1987 said:

    RedChaser said:

    Smart motorways with variable speed limits pah..............some stretches seem to be permanently set at 50 or 60 in some parts of the country. What's the point when it just encourages vehicles to speed up between cameras; change them to average speed cameras and have done with it. good luck johnnybev with whatever transpires.

    Thanks RC, dont get me started on the average speed cameras when i used to go to Bournemouth every so often they used to grate on me.
    If you mean those at the top of the M3, you'll be pleased to know they're now gone and have been replaced by fixed ones!

  • LenGloverLenGlover
    'Smart Motorway' (like on the M3) is just a weaselly, deceitful way of saying average speed cameras
  • randy andyrandy andy
    It's quite simple, people are speeding less, so income for fines has fallen. Unfortunately many departments are now reliant on the income, so they decided to massively increase the fines, but had to make it income related to avoid accusations of disproportionately punishing the poor.

    They have little to no interest in actually stopping speeding. If they did then cars would have been limited to 75 long ago (they are limited in Japan for example) to prevent motorway speeding, and they'd make speed limits far more consistent to make them easier to obey, when in my life time it's got harder and harder to know what the current speed limit is a they change regularly and arbitrarily on many roads.
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  • Rudders22Rudders22
    Hi Johhnybev1987.

    Blimey I have been there latetly a well but I didn't recall any signs.
    However, being on a motorway you wouldn't expect 40mph speed limit to be imposed unless any roadworks etc. I will let you know if I get any paperwork through. I was once on a Driving lesson with my instructor a few years back there was a temp sign near there for 50mph. However there was no readworks as they finished months ago !!
  • LenGloverLenGlover
    edited October 2017
    EDIT: Wrong thread!
  • johnnybev1987johnnybev1987
    Rudders22 said:

    Hi Johhnybev1987.

    Blimey I have been there latetly a well but I didn't recall any signs.
    However, being on a motorway you wouldn't expect 40mph speed limit to be imposed unless any roadworks etc. I will let you know if I get any paperwork through. I was once on a Driving lesson with my instructor a few years back there was a temp sign near there for 50mph. However there was no readworks as they finished months ago !!

    At least you finally passed Paul, good work! i remember when you were having lessons whilst at work (Back in the day hey)

    I did read you are going through a tough time at mo mate, drop me a message if you ever need anyone to talk to or via FB, always here be strong.
  • GreenieGreenie
    kings hill addick said:

    johnnybev1987 said:

    Hi all, i got a letter from Kent police yesterday. The letter states i committed the offence on 10th September 2017, this is over a month ago and the letter is signed 16th October.
    This was going anti-clockwise by the swanley turn off, they had enforced 40mph limit (apparently) although i do not remember this but it was only a month ago. One of my mates did pull something up from a solicitor who specialises in Road Traffic incidents where it states if its not served within 14 days of the offence you can get away with this, has anyone else ever done this or heard of anything similar?

    I am in two minds whether to challenge, i have logged on and can clearly see my car in the photos and i would definitely be driving. I was going 56mph at the time, so if i just accept it then hopeful they just offer me a speed awareness course as i havent been offered before, although due to how much over the limit i am not sure whether it will be offered.

    I have also read whether it will be Band A, B or C and based on the speed it would be bang on B which would mean 75%-125% weekly wage.

    Interested in peoples comments as ever, i will most likely just confirm i am the driver and accept the points/fine but just looking at other options.

    Can anyone explain why there is a salary based fine if they issue fixed penalty fines? Have I missed something?
    One reason and one reason only, they get more dough out of us.
  • FiiishFiiish
    Whichever git thought that the speed limit on any motorway or non-urban dual carriageway should be anything less than 70 (except where the matrix signs are on 40 due to accidents or upcoming congestion) should be taken somewhere and flogged. One of the most stupid policy decisions taken in this last century. How many millions have been spent on smart moron motorways? How much time gets wasted because they seem to be perpetually stuck on 40/50 even after days of clear roads?
  • johnnybev1987johnnybev1987
    In response to that, although i am not going to claim total innocence. This was temporary speed limits that were there, otherwise it would be a 70MPH. I am not sure what the limit was in place for as it was a sunday eve and no accidents so it wasn't for anything serious that has happened and the fact i was driving over the limit which normally isn't possible in most cases when the limit is changed.
  • ShootersHillGuruShootersHillGuru
    bobmunro said:

    It is the driver's responsibility to be aware of the speed limit applying to the particular stretch of road they are on - and these are maximum speed limits, which is not necessarily the appropriate speed. Clearly if on a country road with no street lights and no repeater signs at regular intervals then it would be reasonable for the driver to assume that the national speed limit applies - and conviction in those circumstances would be wrong and would almost certainly fail if it could be proven that the 'exception' signage was not in place.

    So based on that, anyone who exceeds the speed limit is knowingly breaking the law and if caught should quite rightly be convicted. All this talk of stealth tax and the like is nonsense - if you don't speed there is nothing for which to get caught.

    This is not a holier than thou speech - over the years I've been nicked numerous times and in the last 20 years I've probably only had a clean licence for the past 5 years. Prior to that anything from 3 to 9 active points on my licence - plus a speed awareness course thrown in. They were all my fault - not stealth taxes.

    Just a further thought:

    In 2015, 222 people were killed in crashes involving someone exceeding the speed limit and a further 167
    people died when someone was traveling too fast for the conditions.

    I agree although it's not entirely fair. For years various police forces up and down the country had inappropriate speed cameras in situ which they were forced to turn off or remove several years ago.

    They were there not because they were at accident black spots but solely for revenue purposes.

  • kings hill addickkings hill addick
    Greenie said:

    kings hill addick said:

    johnnybev1987 said:

    Hi all, i got a letter from Kent police yesterday. The letter states i committed the offence on 10th September 2017, this is over a month ago and the letter is signed 16th October.
    This was going anti-clockwise by the swanley turn off, they had enforced 40mph limit (apparently) although i do not remember this but it was only a month ago. One of my mates did pull something up from a solicitor who specialises in Road Traffic incidents where it states if its not served within 14 days of the offence you can get away with this, has anyone else ever done this or heard of anything similar?

    I am in two minds whether to challenge, i have logged on and can clearly see my car in the photos and i would definitely be driving. I was going 56mph at the time, so if i just accept it then hopeful they just offer me a speed awareness course as i havent been offered before, although due to how much over the limit i am not sure whether it will be offered.

    I have also read whether it will be Band A, B or C and based on the speed it would be bang on B which would mean 75%-125% weekly wage.

    Interested in peoples comments as ever, i will most likely just confirm i am the driver and accept the points/fine but just looking at other options.

    Can anyone explain why there is a salary based fine if they issue fixed penalty fines? Have I missed something?
    One reason and one reason only, they get more dough out of us.
    So they've abolished fixed penalty fines then?

    I have to say that this does make sense. I have several friends that consider a £60 fine to be a pittance and consider it to be the cost of getting caught while exercising their right to drive as fast as they like, when ever they like.

    I'm not sure about limiting cars but a GPS tracker in all cars that reports speeding would be fine by me. That way all this speeding up and slowing down for cameras would go and people would drive safer, or they would lose their licence (with 12 points) in a week.

    But then there isn't much of a rebel in me!
  • Karim_myBagheriKarim_myBagheri
    bobmunro said:

    It is the driver's responsibility to be aware of the speed limit applying to the particular stretch of road they are on - and these are maximum speed limits, which is not necessarily the appropriate speed. Clearly if on a country road with no street lights and no repeater signs at regular intervals then it would be reasonable for the driver to assume that the national speed limit applies - and conviction in those circumstances would be wrong and would almost certainly fail if it could be proven that the 'exception' signage was not in place.

    So based on that, anyone who exceeds the speed limit is knowingly breaking the law and if caught should quite rightly be convicted. All this talk of stealth tax and the like is nonsense - if you don't speed there is nothing for which to get caught.

    This is not a holier than thou speech - over the years I've been nicked numerous times and in the last 20 years I've probably only had a clean licence for the past 5 years. Prior to that anything from 3 to 9 active points on my licence - plus a speed awareness course thrown in. They were all my fault - not stealth taxes.

    Just a further thought:

    In 2015, 222 people were killed in crashes involving someone exceeding the speed limit and a further 167
    people died when someone was traveling too fast for the conditions.

    I agree when it comes to speeding over 70 but this is more about the variable speed limits on motorways. on that particular stretch of motorway I have just got to a 60mph flashing sign which then turns to 40mph. the car in front has no idea that this has happened until he reaches the next flashing light. I find it dangerous as he has to slow down 20mph before hitting the next sign. the m25 round there is usually busy but I have been on motorways often so called smart ones where they continually change the speed limit with from what I can see no real reason to do so. this is also dangerous. keeping an eye on speed and the signs just adds another distraction to what would of been a reasonably easy drive.
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