I think that whole area North of the Woolwich Road down to the river was not really developed too much until Victorian times.
This map is from 1872. Charlton Pier (close to where the Thames Barrier is now) was where the action was. Some of the buildings (OK, little black squares) on the map may show the Siemans Brothers Telegraph Works which opened in 1863, but there's not much else in the relevant area.
I'm guessing that the red lines on the map indicate railway lines although, if that's the case, there are some odd things going on.
We did have the legendary Charlton Silicate Paint Works which came along in the late 1870s ... probably where Anchor and Hope Lane meets the river … or maybe to the East of that. This picture shows the site looking South, and I think that might be St Luke's on the hill in the distance.
I was reading only the other day how they dug a new tunnel from Greenwich station which meant they had to move the bodies in the naval cemetery (to the little park at westcombe park).
Keep those maps coming. Love old maps as well as photographs.
No ... that's Coomb Farm at the bottom of Westcombe Hill … and STA for station (roughly where the new mural is now).
Completed in 1838, the
railway
terminated at Greenwich and was not extended to Charlton until 1878
via a tunnel under Greenwich Park. Westcombe Park station was opened
in 1879. Had you alighted from the train back then you would have had
a view to the North of extensive countryside with the fields and
orchards of Coombe Farm directly in front of you.
In October 1883, Coombe Farm was sold
and the
building of a new suburb
began, roads extending up to the railway from the Woolwich Road, an important
thoroughfare dating back to ancient times. The Market Gardeners of
Coombe Farm, the Roberts Family and their 100 employees, had
succumbed to the expansion of London and after almost 1000 years the
fertile land would be buried forever by the bricks and mortar of
traditional Victorian terraces.The map shows the extent of the farm with Westcombe Park
Station
and the modern roads superimposed.
Coombe
Farm had been a very successful enterprise during its time and
without doubt its most famous owner was Anne Boleyn for whom Henry
VIII had purchased it in 1531, in part as a private hideaway from his
more public palaces in Greenwich, Charlton and Eltham. Even after
Anne's execution, Coombe Farm was maintained by Henry for his future
Queens.
In
1665 Combe Farm is mentioned in Samuel Pepys' diary
in somewhat tragic
circumstances as the farm was quarantined on account of the plague.
Back then the farm house was in an isolated position between
Greenwich and Woolwich and it was suspected that the black death had
arrived with some beggars who had been allowed to sleep in one of the
barns. Pepys writes on 22nd August: "I went away and walked to
Greenwich, in my way seeing a coffin with a dead body therein, dead of
the plague, lying in an open close belonging to Coome farme, which
was carried out last night, and the parish have not appointed any body
to bury it; but only set a watch there day and night, that nobody
should go thither or come thence: this disease making us more cruel to
one another that we are to dogs." On September 4th "Walked home, my
Lord Brouncker giving me a very neat cane to walk with; but troubled me
to pass by Coome farme where about twenty-one people have died of the
plague"
If you have every stood on the foot path bridge over The Blackwall Tunnel approach road right by Westcombe Park Station you can work out the old road Westcombe Hill from looking at the railway bridge in one direction then look towards the woolwich road and you see the old bit of Westcombe Hill ....very narrow footpath on right hand side of the road with the old railway above that went down to the thames, The old track is still there.
Adjacent comment. The area covering Sutcliffe Park and the Kidbrooke/Ferrier site was known apparently as 'Ninefields' during the second world war and was I believe an RAF Airfield. This is oral history information and could well be wrong.
Adjacent comment. The area covering Sutcliffe Park and the Kidbrooke/Ferrier site was known apparently as 'Ninefields' during the second world war and was I believe an RAF Airfield. This is oral history information and could well be wrong.
It was an RAF training facility and storage depot apparently, not an actual airfield.
Loving this thread. Very interesting. Not quite Charlton related but nearby I used to play over in the vast area of the Woolwich Arsenal as a kid. Some great fishing in the moats around the test facilities full of Crucian Carp. Also used to venture down into the underground hospital near the firing ranges. Took home a grenade and hundreds of bullet cases which I used to shine up and sell to my friends. I gave the grenade to my neighbour and his Mum found it and went beserk. Happy days
Loving this thread. Very interesting. Not quite Charlton related but nearby I used to play over in the vast area of the Woolwich Arsenal as a kid. Some great fishing in the moats around the test facilities full of Crucian Carp. Also used to venture down into the underground hospital near the firing ranges. Took home a grenade and hundreds of bullet cases which I used to shine up and sell to my friends. I gave the grenade to my neighbour and his Mum found it and went beserk. Happy days
My mate brought into school and gave me the live part of a shell from the Arsenal, maybe around 1971/2.
I took it around to another mate to show it off. His dad wasn't best pleased having been a veteran of Dunkirk etc. That was the last I saw of it thankfully.
Loving this thread. Very interesting. Not quite Charlton related but nearby I used to play over in the vast area of the Woolwich Arsenal as a kid. Some great fishing in the moats around the test facilities full of Crucian Carp. Also used to venture down into the underground hospital near the firing ranges. Took home a grenade and hundreds of bullet cases which I used to shine up and sell to my friends. I gave the grenade to my neighbour and his Mum found it and went beserk. Happy days
My mate brought into school and gave me the live part of a shell from the Arsenal, maybe around 1971/2.
I took it around to another mate to show it off. His dad wasn't best pleased having been a veteran of Dunkirk etc. That was the last I saw of it thankfully.
My old man found a live bullet when he was a kid, put it in a vice and hit the base with a hammer. It ricocheted around the garage with him on the floor holding his ears.
It was mate. My Grandad worked for Stones for 50 years and was a member of the cricket team for some time. My mum’s still got his medals.
We used to go over and play in the burnt-out club house over
Stones, having stone fights believe it or not. Don’t think any of us realised
we were having stone fights in Stones’ at the time though lol
Remember one time we went over, about 4 of us, walking round
the house and tight rope walking across the burnt beams when some bloke walked
out of one of the rooms. We all shit ourselves and run out. We returned a
couple of days later and spoke to the bloke, he was a Scouser, long beard and
matted hair, we all made good friends with him and used to nick food out of our
house to take over to him. Remember we gave him a loaf of bread and a margarine;
he's stuck 2 of his fingers in the marg and ate it off his dirty finders. Also remember
a girl I used to knock around with (her dad posts on here), took Rob off and
cut his hair for him in a separate room while a load of us sat in the main bit
waiting to see what he looked like. She's come out first, followed by Rob, whispering
to us all to tell him it looked good, lol. You should've seen it!
All ended when we were sticking bits of hosepipe in his fire
and whirling em around our heads, a bit of rubber come off the end and stuck to
one of my mates, Phillip’s back. He was running round the screams unbelievable.
Rob got hold of him though and carried him across the road to his house on the
estate, with all of us showing him where he lived. I think it was Phil's mum
who put Rob back in touch with his sister up North and we didn't see him many
times again after that.
If you're reading this, Rob. What did those stickle back
sandwiches actually taste like mate?
Loving this thread. Very interesting. Not quite Charlton related but nearby I used to play over in the vast area of the Woolwich Arsenal as a kid. Some great fishing in the moats around the test facilities full of Crucian Carp. Also used to venture down into the underground hospital near the firing ranges. Took home a grenade and hundreds of bullet cases which I used to shine up and sell to my friends. I gave the grenade to my neighbour and his Mum found it and went beserk. Happy days
My mate brought into school and gave me the live part of a shell from the Arsenal, maybe around 1971/2.
I took it around to another mate to show it off. His dad wasn't best pleased having been a veteran of Dunkirk etc. That was the last I saw of it thankfully.
My old man found a live bullet when he was a kid, put it in a vice and hit the base with a hammer. It ricocheted around the garage with him on the floor holding his ears.
I’ll never forget the look on our teacher’s face when a kid dipped in his school bag and brought out a large shell and proudly showed it off to our class of 9 year olds.
One thing that hasn't been discussed much on this thread is the history of the South end of The Valley.
Of course, the Johnny-come-latelies will refer to this as 'The Jimmy Seed Stand', but those of us of an older persuasion will know that our forefathers called it 'The Laundry End'.
Here's why:
Haven't been up that way for a while, but it looks like today's Landsdowne Workshops in Lansdowne Mews might occupy the same site.
The Kentish Sanitary Laundry has its own history of course, but its closure may explain the subsequent lack of 'clean sheets'.
Loving this thread. Very interesting. Not quite Charlton related but nearby I used to play over in the vast area of the Woolwich Arsenal as a kid. Some great fishing in the moats around the test facilities full of Crucian Carp. Also used to venture down into the underground hospital near the firing ranges. Took home a grenade and hundreds of bullet cases which I used to shine up and sell to my friends. I gave the grenade to my neighbour and his Mum found it and went beserk. Happy days
My mate brought into school and gave me the live part of a shell from the Arsenal, maybe around 1971/2.
I took it around to another mate to show it off. His dad wasn't best pleased having been a veteran of Dunkirk etc. That was the last I saw of it thankfully.
My old man found a live bullet when he was a kid, put it in a vice and hit the base with a hammer. It ricocheted around the garage with him on the floor holding his ears.
My Father in Law found a live German incendiary bomb in a field whilst out shooting pigeons years ago - he kept it in his greenhouse for years - used to show it to visitors !!! Don’t know if he still has it - will have to ask him
He also used to make his own shot gun cartridges with a machine in his garage - he got fed up with the next door cat shitting in his garden so he set up a trip wire rigged to a cartridge (no shot in it just the primer) within an hour the cat tried to go it’s normal route into the garden, there was a bang, and the cat was running off like an express train and never seen again
Comments
This map is from 1872. Charlton Pier (close to where the Thames Barrier is now) was where the action was. Some of the buildings (OK, little black squares) on the map may show the Siemans Brothers Telegraph Works which opened in 1863, but there's not much else in the relevant area.
I'm guessing that the red lines on the map indicate railway lines although, if that's the case, there are some odd things going on.
We did have the legendary Charlton Silicate Paint Works which came along in the late 1870s ... probably where Anchor and Hope Lane meets the river … or maybe to the East of that. This picture shows the site looking South, and I think that might be St Luke's on the hill in the distance.
Completed in 1838, the railway terminated at Greenwich and was not extended to Charlton until 1878 via a tunnel under Greenwich Park. Westcombe Park station was opened in 1879. Had you alighted from the train back then you would have had a view to the North of extensive countryside with the fields and orchards of Coombe Farm directly in front of you.
In October 1883, Coombe Farm was sold and the building of a new suburb began, roads extending up to the railway from the Woolwich Road, an important thoroughfare dating back to ancient times. The Market Gardeners of Coombe Farm, the Roberts Family and their 100 employees, had succumbed to the expansion of London and after almost 1000 years the fertile land would be buried forever by the bricks and mortar of traditional Victorian terraces. The map shows the extent of the farm with Westcombe Park Station and the modern roads superimposed.
Coombe Farm had been a very successful enterprise during its time and without doubt its most famous owner was Anne Boleyn for whom Henry VIII had purchased it in 1531, in part as a private hideaway from his more public palaces in Greenwich, Charlton and Eltham. Even after Anne's execution, Coombe Farm was maintained by Henry for his future Queens.
In 1665 Combe Farm is mentioned in Samuel Pepys' diary in somewhat tragic circumstances as the farm was quarantined on account of the plague. Back then the farm house was in an isolated position between Greenwich and Woolwich and it was suspected that the black death had arrived with some beggars who had been allowed to sleep in one of the barns. Pepys writes on 22nd August: "I went away and walked to Greenwich, in my way seeing a coffin with a dead body therein, dead of the plague, lying in an open close belonging to Coome farme, which was carried out last night, and the parish have not appointed any body to bury it; but only set a watch there day and night, that nobody should go thither or come thence: this disease making us more cruel to one another that we are to dogs." On September 4th "Walked home, my Lord Brouncker giving me a very neat cane to walk with; but troubled me to pass by Coome farme where about twenty-one people have died of the plague"
The area covering Sutcliffe Park and the Kidbrooke/Ferrier site was known apparently as 'Ninefields' during the second world war and was I believe an RAF Airfield.
This is oral history information and could well be wrong.
All of this is a guess as I have no idea about the accuracy of the Paint Works picture, but it sort of fits.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Kidbrooke
My mate brought into school and gave me the live part of a shell from the Arsenal, maybe around 1971/2.
I took it around to another mate to show it off. His dad wasn't best pleased having been a veteran of Dunkirk etc. That was the last I saw of it thankfully.
We used to go over and play in the burnt-out club house over Stones, having stone fights believe it or not. Don’t think any of us realised we were having stone fights in Stones’ at the time though lol
Remember one time we went over, about 4 of us, walking round the house and tight rope walking across the burnt beams when some bloke walked out of one of the rooms. We all shit ourselves and run out. We returned a couple of days later and spoke to the bloke, he was a Scouser, long beard and matted hair, we all made good friends with him and used to nick food out of our house to take over to him. Remember we gave him a loaf of bread and a margarine; he's stuck 2 of his fingers in the marg and ate it off his dirty finders. Also remember a girl I used to knock around with (her dad posts on here), took Rob off and cut his hair for him in a separate room while a load of us sat in the main bit waiting to see what he looked like. She's come out first, followed by Rob, whispering to us all to tell him it looked good, lol. You should've seen it!
All ended when we were sticking bits of hosepipe in his fire and whirling em around our heads, a bit of rubber come off the end and stuck to one of my mates, Phillip’s back. He was running round the screams unbelievable. Rob got hold of him though and carried him across the road to his house on the estate, with all of us showing him where he lived. I think it was Phil's mum who put Rob back in touch with his sister up North and we didn't see him many times again after that.
If you're reading this, Rob. What did those stickle back sandwiches actually taste like mate?
Of course, the Johnny-come-latelies will refer to this as 'The Jimmy Seed Stand', but those of us of an older persuasion will know that our forefathers called it 'The Laundry End'.
Here's why:
Haven't been up that way for a while, but it looks like today's Landsdowne Workshops in Lansdowne Mews might occupy the same site.
The Kentish Sanitary Laundry has its own history of course, but its closure may explain the subsequent lack of 'clean sheets'.
I do apologise.
He also used to make his own shot gun cartridges with a machine in his garage - he got fed up with the next door cat shitting in his garden so he set up a trip wire rigged to a cartridge (no shot in it just the primer) within an hour the cat tried to go it’s normal route into the garden, there was a bang, and the cat was running off like an express train and never seen again
Norman and Lewis; two train-stewards on the way to Old Trafford Cup quarter final 1994
Photo taken by Steve Bridge
26th of April 1947. Charlton fans depart from the Rubel pub, Woolwich Road on the way to Wembley
Charlton vs Racing Club de Paris. May 1946 in Paris.
Cheapskate.