This one isn't black and white (might be a better choice of phrase here, but I can't be arsed to find it).
She did an amazing amount of work against apartheid, but then subsequently backed necklacing and other horrendous practices. A character both good and bad - human, like all of us - and I will leave judgement to the South Africans.
most humans don't order the murder of others - I'd err on the side of bad...
Most humans don't campaign like she did against systematic oppression on the basis of race.
Like I tried to point out, this is a pretty cyclical argument. I'm not familiar enough with all the nuance so I'm going leave judgement to South Africans and predominantly British white males on football forums who have a far better understanding of racial inequality than I do.
But a great many did without ordering the murder of others...
But the fact remains that she was a prominent anti-apartheid campaigner.
See? Circles.
Ironic then that the victims of the kidappings and savage murders she was linked to were all black
Power corrupts people - doesn't matter what colour they are.
This one isn't black and white (might be a better choice of phrase here, but I can't be arsed to find it).
She did an amazing amount of work against apartheid, but then subsequently backed necklacing and other horrendous practices. A character both good and bad - human, like all of us - and I will leave judgement to the South Africans.
most humans don't order the murder of others - I'd err on the side of bad...
Most humans don't campaign like she did against systematic oppression on the basis of race.
Like I tried to point out, this is a pretty cyclical argument. I'm not familiar enough with all the nuance so I'm going leave judgement to South Africans and predominantly British white males on football forums who have a far better understanding of racial inequality than I do.
But a great many did without ordering the murder of others...
But the fact remains that she was a prominent anti-apartheid campaigner.
See? Circles.
Ironic then that the victims of the kidappings and savage murders she was linked to were all black
Power corrupts people - doesn't matter what colour they are.
I think you've missed my point, but never mind
I haven't missed your point - she was corrupt. The colour of the people she attacked was irrelevant.
This one isn't black and white (might be a better choice of phrase here, but I can't be arsed to find it).
She did an amazing amount of work against apartheid, but then subsequently backed necklacing and other horrendous practices. A character both good and bad - human, like all of us - and I will leave judgement to the South Africans.
most humans don't order the murder of others - I'd err on the side of bad...
Most humans don't campaign like she did against systematic oppression on the basis of race.
Like I tried to point out, this is a pretty cyclical argument. I'm not familiar enough with all the nuance so I'm going leave judgement to South Africans and predominantly British white males on football forums who have a far better understanding of racial inequality than I do.
But a great many did without ordering the murder of others...
But the fact remains that she was a prominent anti-apartheid campaigner.
See? Circles.
Ironic then that the victims of the kidappings and savage murders she was linked to were all black
Power corrupts people - doesn't matter what colour they are.
I think you've missed my point, but never mind
I haven't missed your point - she was corrupt. The colour of the people she attacked was irrelevant.
You have missed my point.
Paddy said - "..the fact remains that she was a prominent anti-apartheid campaigner."
My response was to say that it was ironic that the victims of the violence she was linked to, were all black. In other words, she was supposedly fighting for the rights of black South Africans, while also being involved in the kidnapping and killing of them.
I never refered to the colour of her skin, so I'm not sure why you said - "Power corrupts people - doesn't matter what colour they are"
This one isn't black and white (might be a better choice of phrase here, but I can't be arsed to find it).
She did an amazing amount of work against apartheid, but then subsequently backed necklacing and other horrendous practices. A character both good and bad - human, like all of us - and I will leave judgement to the South Africans.
most humans don't order the murder of others - I'd err on the side of bad...
Most humans don't campaign like she did against systematic oppression on the basis of race.
Like I tried to point out, this is a pretty cyclical argument. I'm not familiar enough with all the nuance so I'm going leave judgement to South Africans and predominantly British white males on football forums who have a far better understanding of racial inequality than I do.
But a great many did without ordering the murder of others...
But the fact remains that she was a prominent anti-apartheid campaigner.
See? Circles.
Ironic then that the victims of the kidappings and savage murders she was linked to were all black
Power corrupts people - doesn't matter what colour they are.
I think you've missed my point, but never mind
I haven't missed your point - she was corrupt. The colour of the people she attacked was irrelevant.
You have missed my point.
Paddy said - "..the fact remains that she was a prominent anti-apartheid campaigner."
My response was to say that it was ironic that the victims of the violence she was linked to, were all black. In other words, she was supposedly fighting for the rights of black South Africans, while also being involved in the kidnapping and killing of them.
I never refered to the colour of her skin, so I'm not sure why you said - "Power corrupts people - doesn't matter what colour they are"
???
Caveat: I don't know nearly enough about the Stompie Moeketsi case to properly make a comment. I have, however, read that he was accused of being a police informant.
It's therefore a little disingenuous to bring skin colour into it? I'm making my point very ham-fistedly - I obviously don't condone kidnapping and murder of suspected police informants - but I suppose it's not as simple as "well he was black and she ordered him dead", basically.
From a friend and colleague of mine who is an African and continental leader of an NGO . A rather different perspective .........
"A South African just posted on twitter that ‘we are now orphans’. Mama Winnie Madikizela-Mandela has just passed away. Mother of the nation. That is what she was known as… A struggle stalwart, she braved the brutality and muzzling of the apartheid regime, when Nelson Mandela was incarcerated just six years after their marriage. The struggle was difficult to join and required so much bravery. Even more so for a woman, and almost impossible for a woman who was left vulnerable and alone. Yet she stepped up and fought for freedom, despite the humiliations and restrictions. Yes, she weathered some controversies, but Winnie was an icon who stood up for what she believed. The lasting memory I will have of her always, is her triumphant and spirited fist proudly raised on Nelson Mandela’s release day. Winnie Madikizela-Mandela believed in freedom. She fought for freedom. She lived for freedom. She is an inspiration to us all for living what she believed."
From a friend and colleague of mine who is an African and continental leader of an NGO . A rather different perspective .........
"A South African just posted on twitter that ‘we are now orphans’. Mama Winnie Madikizela-Mandela has just passed away. Mother of the nation. That is what she was known as… A struggle stalwart, she braved the brutality and muzzling of the apartheid regime, when Nelson Mandela was incarcerated just six years after their marriage. The struggle was difficult to join and required so much bravery. Even more so for a woman, and almost impossible for a woman who was left vulnerable and alone. Yet she stepped up and fought for freedom, despite the humiliations and restrictions. Yes, she weathered some controversies, but Winnie was an icon who stood up for what she believed. The lasting memory I will have of her always, is her triumphant and spirited fist proudly raised on Nelson Mandela’s release day. Winnie Madikizela-Mandela believed in freedom. She fought for freedom. She lived for freedom. She is an inspiration to us all for living what she believed."
The freedom she she sought wasn't freedom for all though was it? Abominable regimes will always spawn abominable behaviour in those that fight against them. On either side only abominable people orchestrate abominations.
This one isn't black and white (might be a better choice of phrase here, but I can't be arsed to find it).
She did an amazing amount of work against apartheid, but then subsequently backed necklacing and other horrendous practices. A character both good and bad - human, like all of us - and I will leave judgement to the South Africans.
most humans don't order the murder of others - I'd err on the side of bad...
Most humans don't campaign like she did against systematic oppression on the basis of race.
Like I tried to point out, this is a pretty cyclical argument. I'm not familiar enough with all the nuance so I'm going leave judgement to South Africans and predominantly British white males on football forums who have a far better understanding of racial inequality than I do.
But a great many did without ordering the murder of others...
But the fact remains that she was a prominent anti-apartheid campaigner.
See? Circles.
Ironic then that the victims of the kidappings and savage murders she was linked to were all black
Power corrupts people - doesn't matter what colour they are.
I think you've missed my point, but never mind
I haven't missed your point - she was corrupt. The colour of the people she attacked was irrelevant.
You have missed my point.
Paddy said - "..the fact remains that she was a prominent anti-apartheid campaigner."
My response was to say that it was ironic that the victims of the violence she was linked to, were all black. In other words, she was supposedly fighting for the rights of black South Africans, while also being involved in the kidnapping and killing of them.
I never refered to the colour of her skin, so I'm not sure why you said - "Power corrupts people - doesn't matter what colour they are"
???
Caveat: I don't know nearly enough about the Stompie Moeketsi case to properly make a comment. I have, however, read that he was accused of being a police informant.
It's therefore a little disingenuous to bring skin colour into it? I'm making my point very ham-fistedly - I obviously don't condone kidnapping and murder of suspected police informants - but I suppose it's not as simple as "well he was black and she ordered him dead", basically.
14 years old, Paddy. Found with his throat slit and, in all likelihood, weren't given much choice in tje first place, when the police came a knocking.
From a friend and colleague of mine who is an African and continental leader of an NGO . A rather different perspective .........
"A South African just posted on twitter that ‘we are now orphans’. Mama Winnie Madikizela-Mandela has just passed away. Mother of the nation. That is what she was known as… A struggle stalwart, she braved the brutality and muzzling of the apartheid regime, when Nelson Mandela was incarcerated just six years after their marriage. The struggle was difficult to join and required so much bravery. Even more so for a woman, and almost impossible for a woman who was left vulnerable and alone. Yet she stepped up and fought for freedom, despite the humiliations and restrictions. Yes, she weathered some controversies, but Winnie was an icon who stood up for what she believed. The lasting memory I will have of her always, is her triumphant and spirited fist proudly raised on Nelson Mandela’s release day. Winnie Madikizela-Mandela believed in freedom. She fought for freedom. She lived for freedom. She is an inspiration to us all for living what she believed."
The freedom she she sought wasn't freedom for all though was it? Abominable regimes will always spawn abominable behaviour in those that fight against them. On either side only abominable people orchestrate abominations.
I thought the abolishment of the apartheid regime was " freedom for all " .........
Comments
Paddy said - "..the fact remains that she was a prominent anti-apartheid campaigner."
My response was to say that it was ironic that the victims of the violence she was linked to, were all black. In other words, she was supposedly fighting for the rights of black South Africans, while also being involved in the kidnapping and killing of them.
I never refered to the colour of her skin, so I'm not sure why you said - "Power corrupts people - doesn't matter what colour they are"
???
It's therefore a little disingenuous to bring skin colour into it? I'm making my point very ham-fistedly - I obviously don't condone kidnapping and murder of suspected police informants - but I suppose it's not as simple as "well he was black and she ordered him dead", basically.
"A South African just posted on twitter that ‘we are now orphans’. Mama Winnie Madikizela-Mandela has just passed away. Mother of the nation. That is what she was known as… A struggle stalwart, she braved the brutality and muzzling of the apartheid regime, when Nelson Mandela was incarcerated just six years after their marriage.
The struggle was difficult to join and required so much bravery. Even more so for a woman, and almost impossible for a woman who was left vulnerable and alone. Yet she stepped up and fought for freedom, despite the humiliations and restrictions.
Yes, she weathered some controversies, but Winnie was an icon who stood up for what she believed. The lasting memory I will have of her always, is her triumphant and spirited fist proudly raised on Nelson Mandela’s release day.
Winnie Madikizela-Mandela believed in freedom. She fought for freedom. She lived for freedom. She is an inspiration to us all for living what she believed."