[cite]Posted By: CharltonDan[/cite]True! But asks a question how effective I'm gonna be......
"So where did you serve?"
CD - "Eeeeerm.....'Nam!"
"Vietnam?"
"No...Totten'am"
Be interesting to find out. Try to get a WWII veteran out with you for a few hours, and I'll bet you'll see a big increase in what's going into the bucket....
Might wear my Grandfathers flying jacket and medals from WWII ;-)
For what it's worth I always give to the qppeal, not to the collector.
Last year I had to scour Orpington High Street before I finally managed to find a poppy box in WH Smiths. I had one day in the UK on my way back from holiday in late October but I got my poppy and I was proud to wear it on armistice day.
If you want to see the effects of war try reading the names on the Menin gate, or walking up and down the lines of gravestones at Tyne Cot cemetary, or just try stopping off at any village war memorial in any English village you happen to pass through and look to see how many surnames appear two or three times on the same memorial.
I was at Compiegne last year on 11th November (where the Armistice was signed). Three of us wearing our Poppies with pride. Unfortunately there we learned that it was only the French who fought the Germans during WWI.
Hugo is spot on. Go to Tyne Cot for Ypres and Theipval for The Somme (72,000 Commonwealth MISSING) and you cannot help but be moved by it all. I was with Henry at the Polygon Wood cemetary a couple of weeks ago - to see line after line of immaculate Australian and Kiwi graves in the pouring rain (just as they had to suffer) is just so moving.
If you get a chance, visit www.cwgc.com and just put your surname in the search engine. You will be amazed (unless of course your surname is Hackenbush, where you need to look under www.filthyboscheswine.de)
Tyne Cot was very moving as Addickted said. We also went to another German built cementary that has now been taken over by the CWGC. Last resting place to the first British casualty of the war and a couple of VC.
1198 Hayes' so I don't think I will be doing what Addickted does and visiting all the memorials with his surname but I found one Ben Hayes at Le Touret near Bethune so will make for there next time I'm in France.
The thing I remember about Tyne Cot - and maybe I'm just showing my ignorance here - was that although I was aware that we'd asked the troops to fix their bayonets and charge (or on the Somme walk slowly towards) the enemy machine guns - until I went there I never realised we had asked them to charge uphill towards machine guns placed in reinforced concrete pillboxes.
The memorial at Tyne Cot is built around one of those pill boxes.
The Royal Field Artillery were supposed to have smashed them to pieces - but, like the French ones built at Verdun, they were built from a single continuous pour of concrete so were incredibly strong.
Yes as I remember it htere were 3 pillboxes. The two outer ones remain and the crucifix, or whatever it is, is built on top of the middle one.
The artillery were supposed to do many things but what no-one took into account is that the Germans, fighting a defensive war in an area where movements in the front line were measured in yards rather than miles, had plenty of opportunity to build substantial concrete emplacements. And "comfortable" trenches.
6th June is one of the many reasons i wear my poppy with pride!I have often thought how many of the service people who lost their lives were Charlton supporters during the war.RIP to all them heroes who lost their lives!God bless
I have always meant to visit the places mentioned and reading all your comments and reading the stories i am now determined to go.nearly had a blubb just reading .All kids should be show and taught this , may help instill some of the real lack of respect that is missing today or am i just getting old ?
re:kids During a holiday in France went to the huge cemetery at Estaple (Sp) near Calais with my then 3 year old. To him it was a huge park to run around him. It wasn't disrespectful just a little boy playing.
I imagined that all those fathers and brothers would have perhaps liked that. Always makes me sad to think that they would never again be able to enjoy such a simple pleasure as seeing a little boy enjoying himself.
I've been to Ypres, my Grandfather, George - MC, was their for most of 1914/18 having been a professional soldier at the outset. A couple of times either on the way to Holland or back, the Menin Gate is unbelievable.
I think you are right Henry they would love to see a little boy playing.
That is a really nice sentiment Henry, and a really moving image mate. I lived in a household as a kid with generations that had seen both World Wars, my grandfather had served as a machine gunner in the the first one. He had had a tough life in many ways anyway, and he had clearly seen and been involved in some of the horrors of that war, and he rarely talked about it, except to say that anyone who had been in a war never wanted to be in another one. He lost his younger brother, who was a stretcher bearer, and then he had to watch years later as his sons had to go off and fight in another war. How hard must that have been. They all survived thankfully. But the reason I mention this is because the image of the little boy playing. My grandfather was always amazingly gentle when he held a baby or young child and his hard exterior would soften and you saw the man beneath. He had left some of his young life behind in those trenches but I get the feeling had he not made it, then a little child playing innocently where he lay would have been fine by him.
If there was a point to the 2 world wars (and many would doubt it in the case of the 1st) then surely it was to protect a way of life, a way of life where people can live in peace and without fear and just go about their daily lives. Nothing could exemplify that better than kids doing what kids are supposed to do.
On the subjest of the Commonwealth War Graves Commission (www.cwgc.org not .com as posted by Addicted) a nice little story:
Some 20-odd years ago a friend of mine, a keen Yorkshire cricket supporter, was on hnliday in Italy and took time out to visit the CWGC cemetary in Caserta and look up the grave of Hedley Verity (for those not in the know a cricketer for Yorkshire and England and one of the true all-time greats). Verity was wounded in Sicily in 1943 and died of his wounds in hospital on the mainland. Ernie was horrified to discover that the grave had, of all things, a RED ROSE growing on it and announced his intention to write to the CWGC and complain. I pointed out the fact that the CWGC is just about the most egalitarian organisation known to man and does not discriminate on the grounds of race, creed, colour, distinction, rank, honours or anything (I believe the one concession is that muslims are allowed to face Mecca) and that he would get nowhere. He wrote anyhow and got the predictable, if polite, response.
Some years later, however, he got another letter from the same official at the CWGC. It stated that as part of a re-furbishment at the Caserta CWGC cemetary every 7th row had been re-planted with white roses. "You will be delighted to learn that Capt. Verity's grave is on a 7th. row."
Earlier this year I went to the cemetery in Kanchanaburi, Thailand - near the Kwai river where hundreds of Dutch, British and Australian soldiers (and others) died during the construction of the Death Railway. The place was immaculate, neatly trimmed grass, no weeds, regularly watered etc. In a part of the country that has heat waves and is less than cared for generally the respect given to this place was evident.
For the last few years i've always gone out and got a poppy, but hardly any young people wear it nowadays.
More concerned about wearing the latest bling etc.
But last year i went to some place in scotland in the middle of the highlands not too far from Ben Nevis, and there was a statue and memorial, all lit up in the evening , all these young scottish lads who grew up in farms around the area had put themselves forward to go to the war and died . Should be made compulsory for schools to visit these memorial's, theres at least 1 in every town in england. and probably hundreds abroad.
September 1990 was the first time I properly appreciated the WW2 Normandy landings. We went on holiday to Grandcamp Maisy and on the Sunday made a trip out to the Pointe Du Hoc. At this point A group of 225 Rangers set about at dawn to take out this important German battery and observation position overlooking Omaha Beach. They used ropes and ladders to scale the cliff face and were backed up by naval bombardment. As the commeration points out these men were the leading party they knew that there would be an incredible sacrifice for the cause of freedom. They succeeded though 135 lost their life in doing so. The scale of the battery position, the craters etc. indicated that there had been a huge struggle, their bravery astounded me.
During our holiday we also went to Arromanches, Port en Bassin etc but I also recall the absolute beauty and serenity of the American War cemetry above Vierville sur Mer beach. Ms Lat I am proud to say learnt to walk on the perfect sands of Omaha beach not knowing what had happened 36 years previous. She too went to the Menen Gate as part of History GCSE and was able to trace the route taken by her great grandfather who had kept a map of his travels in WW1, the impact of being there on 11-11-2004 remains with her to this day. Brave men, far far braver than I feel I could ever be.
As an aside it is also 25 years since the Falklands conflict, RIP Darryl Cope at school with me and a good friend from 5 to 16 years of age whereupon he joined HMS Sheffield which was cruelly hit by an exocet
Weren't the gun emplacements found to be empty when those rangers finally took Pointe Du Hoc? Not that that in any way detracts from their bravery but it does illustrate the futility of war.
RIP Darryl Cope, btw. It doesn't matter which conflct, the sacrifice is the same.
The Rangers, initially got lost and eventually found Pointe Du Hoc nearly an hour after they were supposed to. After clambering up the cliffs, they found the guns weren't there. However thye managed to follow the tracks to where the guns had been moved - to a farm house over a mile in land. They made there way there and destroyed them.
Despite doing this prior to the D Day landings, they weren't the first Allies on French soil. Some British Paras were landed by gliders six hours before the invasion was due with instructions to take a heavily fortified bridge over the River Aure so the advance would not be held up. This they managed despite a German Panzer Division only being four miles away and only carrying small arms. The first shots and the first Allied death of D Day occured here.
Guns were apparently not fully installed and the French Resistance did not manage to get a message to the Allies. Nevertheless a tremendous act of bravery
"As an aside it is also 25 years since the Falklands conflict, RIP Darryl Cope at school with me and a good friend from 5 to 16 years of age whereupon he joined HMS Sheffield which was cruelly hit by an exocet"
Lats, i read about a guy in the londonpaper yesterday who lived in and around the south east and was killed trying to storm a machine gun can't remember his name though. his best mate owns a company in Charlton now.
Comments
Might wear my Grandfathers flying jacket and medals from WWII ;-)
If you don't get anyone else, let me know. I'd happily help you out for a few hours
Cheers Danny.
Ive spoken to the local Legion Collection Supervisor and she'll be getting back to me over the summer. I'll let you know the details
Last year I had to scour Orpington High Street before I finally managed to find a poppy box in WH Smiths. I had one day in the UK on my way back from holiday in late October but I got my poppy and I was proud to wear it on armistice day.
If you want to see the effects of war try reading the names on the Menin gate, or walking up and down the lines of gravestones at Tyne Cot cemetary, or just try stopping off at any village war memorial in any English village you happen to pass through and look to see how many surnames appear two or three times on the same memorial.
Hugo is spot on. Go to Tyne Cot for Ypres and Theipval for The Somme (72,000 Commonwealth MISSING) and you cannot help but be moved by it all. I was with Henry at the Polygon Wood cemetary a couple of weeks ago - to see line after line of immaculate Australian and Kiwi graves in the pouring rain (just as they had to suffer) is just so moving.
If you get a chance, visit www.cwgc.com and just put your surname in the search engine. You will be amazed (unless of course your surname is Hackenbush, where you need to look under www.filthyboscheswine.de)
1198 Hayes' so I don't think I will be doing what Addickted does and visiting all the memorials with his surname but I found one Ben Hayes at Le Touret near Bethune so will make for there next time I'm in France.
The Royal Field Artillery were supposed to have smashed them to pieces - but, like the French ones built at Verdun, they were built from a single continuous pour of concrete so were incredibly strong.
The artillery were supposed to do many things but what no-one took into account is that the Germans, fighting a defensive war in an area where movements in the front line were measured in yards rather than miles, had plenty of opportunity to build substantial concrete emplacements. And "comfortable" trenches.
Here in Canada we have a day off on November 11th - It mystifies me why the UK does not do the same.
I imagined that all those fathers and brothers would have perhaps liked that. Always makes me sad to think that they would never again be able to enjoy such a simple pleasure as seeing a little boy enjoying himself.
I think you are right Henry they would love to see a little boy playing.
I lived in a household as a kid with generations that had seen both World Wars, my grandfather had served as a machine gunner in the the first one. He had had a tough life in many ways anyway, and he had clearly seen and been involved in some of the horrors of that war, and he rarely talked about it, except to say that anyone who had been in a war never wanted to be in another one. He lost his younger brother, who was a stretcher bearer, and then he had to watch years later as his sons had to go off and fight in another war. How hard must that have been. They all survived thankfully.
But the reason I mention this is because the image of the little boy playing. My grandfather was always amazingly gentle when he held a baby or young child and his hard exterior would soften and you saw the man beneath.
He had left some of his young life behind in those trenches but I get the feeling had he not made it, then a little child playing innocently where he lay would have been fine by him.
On the subjest of the Commonwealth War Graves Commission (www.cwgc.org not .com as posted by Addicted) a nice little story:
Some 20-odd years ago a friend of mine, a keen Yorkshire cricket supporter, was on hnliday in Italy and took time out to visit the CWGC cemetary in Caserta and look up the grave of Hedley Verity (for those not in the know a cricketer for Yorkshire and England and one of the true all-time greats). Verity was wounded in Sicily in 1943 and died of his wounds in hospital on the mainland. Ernie was horrified to discover that the grave had, of all things, a RED ROSE growing on it and announced his intention to write to the CWGC and complain. I pointed out the fact that the CWGC is just about the most egalitarian organisation known to man and does not discriminate on the grounds of race, creed, colour, distinction, rank, honours or anything (I believe the one concession is that muslims are allowed to face Mecca) and that he would get nowhere. He wrote anyhow and got the predictable, if polite, response.
Some years later, however, he got another letter from the same official at the CWGC. It stated that as part of a re-furbishment at the Caserta CWGC cemetary every 7th row had been re-planted with white roses. "You will be delighted to learn that Capt. Verity's grave is on a 7th. row."
More concerned about wearing the latest bling etc.
But last year i went to some place in scotland in the middle of the highlands not too far from Ben Nevis, and there was a statue and memorial, all lit up in the evening , all these young scottish lads who grew up in farms around the area had put themselves forward to go to the war and died . Should be made compulsory for schools to visit these memorial's, theres at least 1 in every town in england. and probably hundreds abroad.
During our holiday we also went to Arromanches, Port en Bassin etc but I also recall the absolute beauty and serenity of the American War cemetry above Vierville sur Mer beach. Ms Lat I am proud to say learnt to walk on the perfect sands of Omaha beach not knowing what had happened 36 years previous. She too went to the Menen Gate as part of History GCSE and was able to trace the route taken by her great grandfather who had kept a map of his travels in WW1, the impact of being there on 11-11-2004 remains with her to this day. Brave men, far far braver than I feel I could ever be.
As an aside it is also 25 years since the Falklands conflict, RIP Darryl Cope at school with me and a good friend from 5 to 16 years of age whereupon he joined HMS Sheffield which was cruelly hit by an exocet
RIP Darryl Cope, btw. It doesn't matter which conflct, the sacrifice is the same.
The Rangers, initially got lost and eventually found Pointe Du Hoc nearly an hour after they were supposed to. After clambering up the cliffs, they found the guns weren't there. However thye managed to follow the tracks to where the guns had been moved - to a farm house over a mile in land. They made there way there and destroyed them.
Despite doing this prior to the D Day landings, they weren't the first Allies on French soil. Some British Paras were landed by gliders six hours before the invasion was due with instructions to take a heavily fortified bridge over the River Aure so the advance would not be held up. This they managed despite a German Panzer Division only being four miles away and only carrying small arms. The first shots and the first Allied death of D Day occured here.
Lats, i read about a guy in the londonpaper yesterday who lived in and around the south east and was killed trying to storm a machine gun can't remember his name though. his best mate owns a company in Charlton now.