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Airstrikes against Syria

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  • edited April 2018
    It was a cabinet decision apparently, and that would have included Boris Johnson
    Boris effing Johnson.
    We can all sleep easier in our beds then.
    I reckon sending Roger Johnson to eff and blind might have been a better strategy rather than rely on the judgement of Boris 'picannies ' Johnson.
  • We have become so pampered and comfortable in our lives. None of us strive for the basics in life like the majority of the world outside the west do in terms of food, shelter etc.

    In turn we have become self- obsessed narcissistic and in our little bubbles consumed by our new opiate of celebrity, premier league football and mass consumerism.

    Ironically we have never been better connected to the world but never been so insulated and inward looking.

    We have developed a NIMBY approach to world affairs of shiteing ourselves of standing up and getting involved for fear of reprisals and any impact on our comfortable existence.

    It's understandable and human nature but at the same time we've lost our humanity and backbone to a degree that we have become so desensitised to images of gassed children coming in through our 50 inch HD tvs that we whimper that we shouldn't get involved and it's not our battle for the fear that it may escalate and affect our comparative utopias.

    We talk the talk in our daily lives and on social media about how we are good and great and stand up to it but when it comes down to it it's largely just talk.

    A few generations ago people were giving their lives for what was right in 2 world wars, to fight evil in the second, and thank goodness they did.

    I demonstrated sheer cowardice years back when Obama wished to go in and in an act of self preservation breathed a huge sigh of relief that our politicians voted to bow down to Putin's threats. I've felt deep shame about that ever since and every time images of Syrian suffering have been broadcast in the ensuing years.

    I am not a fan of May and take issue with 99% of what Trump does but on this issue they are right. For all the gargantuan faults of the UK and US and misguided campaigns and foreign policy they've done the right thing.

    The consequences of escalation are terrifying and as the father of 2 young children I'm not being flippant.

    But what sort of people would we be and what sort of country and world would we live in if we just continue to turn a blind eye to such atrocities and appease the likes of Putin and Assad at the detriment of thousands of innocent men, women and children.

    Not in my name.

    Great post

  • SDAddick said:

    We have become so pampered and comfortable in our lives. None of us strive for the basics in life like the majority of the world outside the west do in terms of food, shelter etc.

    In turn we have become self- obsessed narcissistic and in our little bubbles consumed by our new opiate of celebrity, premier league football and mass consumerism.

    Ironically we have never been better connected to the world but never been so insulated and inward looking.

    We have developed a NIMBY approach to world affairs of shiteing ourselves of standing up and getting involved for fear of reprisals and any impact on our comfortable existence.

    It's understandable and human nature but at the same time we've lost our humanity and backbone to a degree that we have become so desensitised to images of gassed children coming in through our 50 inch HD tvs that we whimper that we shouldn't get involved and it's not our battle for the fear that it may escalate and affect our comparative utopias.

    We talk the talk in our daily lives and on social media about how we are good and great and stand up to it but when it comes down to it it's largely just talk.

    A few generations ago people were giving their lives for what was right in 2 world wars, to fight evil in the second, and thank goodness they did.

    I demonstrated sheer cowardice years back when Obama wished to go in and in an act of self preservation breathed a huge sigh of relief that our politicians voted to bow down to Putin's threats. I've felt deep shame about that ever since and every time images of Syrian suffering have been broadcast in the ensuing years.

    I am not a fan of May and take issue with 99% of what Trump does but on this issue they are right. For all the gargantuan faults of the UK and US and misguided campaigns and foreign policy they've done the right thing.

    The consequences of escalation are terrifying and as the father of 2 young children I'm not being flippant.

    But what sort of people would we be and what sort of country and world would we live in if we just continue to turn a blind eye to such atrocities and appease the likes of Putin and Assad at the detriment of thousands of innocent men, women and children.

    Not in my name.

    You want to talk about turning a blind eye?

    The US has taken in 11 Syrian refugees this year.

    11.


    I don't know if missile strikes will help the Syrian people and make them safer. I genuinely hope it does. But if you really want to help them, if you really want to put skin in the game, take in refugees. Give more support to huge refugee camps in places like Jordan, Greece, Turkey, etc. Stop the demonization of refugees, let alone foreigners.

    It's way cheaper than missiles, but for some reason it's way, way harder.
    To have suffered the ravages of civil war in Syria must be unimaginably awful, but to have to continue to live in a violent society where gun attacks are a commonplace under a mad, deluded president propped up by malevolent forces, determined to cling to power at any cost including the lives of his own compatriots just adds insult to injury.

    They might as well have stayed in Syria.
  • edited April 2018
    .
  • Something has to be done. Governments shouldn't kills their own people, certainly not gas them. But it's not as easy as sending in a few missiles.

    I won't pretentious I understand what's going on, so ignore this if it's crap... But you have the Assad government, propped up by a few countries, then you have armed rebels including ISIS. Can't say I like either.

    Somewhat has to happen? Wipe out one side and let the other side win? Wipe out both sides? Risk war with the other countries involved?

    What next? The country is in ruins. A global effort to replace the infrastructure, help the people overcome the scars of war, re-home refugees, put in a stable government (great track record of that...) It's a complete effing mess, and it's for once not entirely of our own making.

    I've only got questions. Yeah, a sustained global effort to fix the problem is what's needed, but with all these competing interests, there's no chance of this happening.

    Agree with a lot of what @RodneyCharltonTrotta posted, but burying my head might be better than the utter sense of helplessness I've feeling at the moment. But if you put yourself in the situation of the average Syrian civilian, you'd want to be helped. Agree with @SDAddick as well in therms of helping and taking refugees. I can't imagine that going down too well here though.
  • shine166 said:

    So Syria uses chemicals against its own people and we bomb them... Russia uses chemicals on British soil and its forgotten in a week

    No oil in Salisbury
  • How many refugees are to many ? The next 20,000 or the next 2,000 "child refugees" ----- none of this its "only 10,000 "shit forgetting about the 200,000 plus per year already coming in--legit immigration --- simple question when is enough ? As someone who is married to an immigrant for 25 years I'd like to
    know when do we stop ?
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  • I guess all the anti Trump/May brigade would rather do it diplomatically via the UN ?
    Oh, we tried that but the Russians veto everything.
    Or draw a red line which must not be crossed.
    Oh, Obama already did that but didn’t act when it was crossed, then let the Russians “dispose” of Assad’s chemical weapons.

    Really stupid comment - this isn't about being anti Trump or May it's about having a coherent foreign policy. Only a total f***ing buffoon would say this has been thought through - it's a knee jerk publicity seeking stunt with nothing to follow through.

    Western foreign policy has been a total disaster in the Middle East - we've helped create half the problems and we've learnt nothing.

    Air strikes in themselves are not a strategy - any brief study of history will demonstrate that. You can't carve up a region with ridiculous boundaries, supply it with arms, randomly support brutal dictators and then feign surprise when it goes belly up.

    How many failures do we need in the Middle East before we take stock of history?

    It ain’t stupid and I’m not a buffoon. There are those on here and other social media forums that do condemn and oppose everything Trump and May do.
    Only a total f***ing buffoon would disagree with that.
  • Hamas"our friends " JCorbyn
  • edited April 2018
    She didn’t need to ask permission she done the right thing and I am glad she did

    Corbyn wouldn’t do anything if you were caught with your fingers in his old lady the man is a coward

    If we would have told comerade corbyn what was happening he would have rang putin on the red phone
  • Where are the UN in all of this ?
  • She didn’t need to ask permission she done the right thing and I am glad she did

    Corbyn wouldn’t do anything if you were caught with your fingers in his old lady the man is a coward

    If we would have told comerade corbyn what was happening he would have rang putin on the red phone

    He wouldn't need to. Simply tip off his Czech handler.
  • Boysie said:

    Where are the UN in all of this ?

    Russia uses its veto
  • I guess all the anti Trump/May brigade would rather do it diplomatically via the UN ?
    Oh, we tried that but the Russians veto everything.
    Or draw a red line which must not be crossed.
    Oh, Obama already did that but didn’t act when it was crossed, then let the Russians “dispose” of Assad’s chemical weapons.

    Really stupid comment - this isn't about being anti Trump or May it's about having a coherent foreign policy. Only a total f***ing buffoon would say this has been thought through - it's a knee jerk publicity seeking stunt with nothing to follow through.

    Western foreign policy has been a total disaster in the Middle East - we've helped create half the problems and we've learnt nothing.

    Air strikes in themselves are not a strategy - any brief study of history will demonstrate that. You can't carve up a region with ridiculous boundaries, supply it with arms, randomly support brutal dictators and then feign surprise when it goes belly up.

    How many failures do we need in the Middle East before we take stock of history?

    It ain’t stupid and I’m not a buffoon. There are those on here and other social media forums that do condemn and oppose everything Trump and May do.
    Only a total f***ing buffoon would disagree with that.

    Ah that moron that does his politics by tweet and the twot that is so shit at having an opinion shes barely allowed to talk publically ?

    only a buffoon would blindly follow there outlook on the world
  • As the rear admiral on the BBC this morning intimated, discussing military attacks in parliament increases the danger to our military personnel since the MP's for muppet central would disclose information in the broadcast. Sometimes you have to leave decisions to those who have been chosen to lead. It is called the Royal perogative and is what the PM is tasked to do. Imagine a Corbin led government - we are under nuclear attack and he summons parliament to discuss how Kim Jong is not all bad.

    Like it or lump it that is what the choices are, do something or do nothing. Go back to Chamberlains meeting in Munich to understand what doing nothing results in. As with Rodney Charlton Trotta I am no fan of May or Trump. Equally i believe that Corbyn makes Chamberlain look like a strong leader. This decision wastaken with both the US and France if you want to know why the French came in read their statement
    copied on bbc wesite.
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  • shine166 said:

    I guess all the anti Trump/May brigade would rather do it diplomatically via the UN ?
    Oh, we tried that but the Russians veto everything.
    Or draw a red line which must not be crossed.
    Oh, Obama already did that but didn’t act when it was crossed, then let the Russians “dispose” of Assad’s chemical weapons.

    Really stupid comment - this isn't about being anti Trump or May it's about having a coherent foreign policy. Only a total f***ing buffoon would say this has been thought through - it's a knee jerk publicity seeking stunt with nothing to follow through.

    Western foreign policy has been a total disaster in the Middle East - we've helped create half the problems and we've learnt nothing.

    Air strikes in themselves are not a strategy - any brief study of history will demonstrate that. You can't carve up a region with ridiculous boundaries, supply it with arms, randomly support brutal dictators and then feign surprise when it goes belly up.

    How many failures do we need in the Middle East before we take stock of history?

    It ain’t stupid and I’m not a buffoon. There are those on here and other social media forums that do condemn and oppose everything Trump and May do.
    Only a total f***ing buffoon would disagree with that.

    Ah that moron that does his politics by tweet and the twot that is so shit at having an opinion shes barely allowed to talk publically ?

    only a buffoon would blindly follow there outlook on the world
    I’m surprised you can spell buffoon, considering your appalling grammar.
    I don’t blame her for not having an opinion. Dare to oppose some on here, with a different opinion, and all you get is abuse.
  • I guess all the anti Trump/May brigade would rather do it diplomatically via the UN ?
    Oh, we tried that but the Russians veto everything.
    Or draw a red line which must not be crossed.
    Oh, Obama already did that but didn’t act when it was crossed, then let the Russians “dispose” of Assad’s chemical weapons.

    Really stupid comment - this isn't about being anti Trump or May it's about having a coherent foreign policy. Only a total f***ing buffoon would say this has been thought through - it's a knee jerk publicity seeking stunt with nothing to follow through.

    Western foreign policy has been a total disaster in the Middle East - we've helped create half the problems and we've learnt nothing.

    Air strikes in themselves are not a strategy - any brief study of history will demonstrate that. You can't carve up a region with ridiculous boundaries, supply it with arms, randomly support brutal dictators and then feign surprise when it goes belly up.

    How many failures do we need in the Middle East before we take stock of history?

    It ain’t stupid and I’m not a buffoon. There are those on here and other social media forums that do condemn and oppose everything Trump and May do.
    Only a total f***ing buffoon would disagree with that.
    It was a stupid comment - seemed to imply that only those who don't like Trump or May are opposed to this. Many are opposed to this and it hasn't been thought through - you know that.

    Trump doesn't have a coherent military strategy and the West has failed consistently in the Middle East for decades. We've created the majority of the problems in that region due to our ill thought out policies.

    This is a knee jerk reaction because Russia is involved. Trump and the West have turned a blind eye to numerous other conflicts round the world.

    Something does need to be done about Syria but air strikes on their own are not the answer. The same criticism can be levelled at Obama as well ....

  • I guess all the anti Trump/May brigade would rather do it diplomatically via the UN ?
    Oh, we tried that but the Russians veto everything.
    Or draw a red line which must not be crossed.
    Oh, Obama already did that but didn’t act when it was crossed, then let the Russians “dispose” of Assad’s chemical weapons.

    Really stupid comment - this isn't about being anti Trump or May it's about having a coherent foreign policy. Only a total f***ing buffoon would say this has been thought through - it's a knee jerk publicity seeking stunt with nothing to follow through.

    Western foreign policy has been a total disaster in the Middle East - we've helped create half the problems and we've learnt nothing.

    Air strikes in themselves are not a strategy - any brief study of history will demonstrate that. You can't carve up a region with ridiculous boundaries, supply it with arms, randomly support brutal dictators and then feign surprise when it goes belly up.

    How many failures do we need in the Middle East before we take stock of history?

    It ain’t stupid and I’m not a buffoon. There are those on here and other social media forums that do condemn and oppose everything Trump and May do.
    Only a total f***ing buffoon would disagree with that.
    It was a stupid comment - seemed to imply that only those who don't like Trump or May are opposed to this. Many are opposed to this and it hasn't been thought through - you know that.

    Trump doesn't have a coherent military strategy and the West has failed consistently in the Middle East for decades. We've created the majority of the problems in that region due to our ill thought out policies.

    This is a knee jerk reaction because Russia is involved. Trump and the West have turned a blind eye to numerous other conflicts round the world.

    Something does need to be done about Syria but air strikes on their own are not the answer. The same criticism can be levelled at Obama as well ....

    So you decide to abuse me based on what you think my comments implied. Class.
  • shine166 said:

    I guess all the anti Trump/May brigade would rather do it diplomatically via the UN ?
    Oh, we tried that but the Russians veto everything.
    Or draw a red line which must not be crossed.
    Oh, Obama already did that but didn’t act when it was crossed, then let the Russians “dispose” of Assad’s chemical weapons.

    Really stupid comment - this isn't about being anti Trump or May it's about having a coherent foreign policy. Only a total f***ing buffoon would say this has been thought through - it's a knee jerk publicity seeking stunt with nothing to follow through.

    Western foreign policy has been a total disaster in the Middle East - we've helped create half the problems and we've learnt nothing.

    Air strikes in themselves are not a strategy - any brief study of history will demonstrate that. You can't carve up a region with ridiculous boundaries, supply it with arms, randomly support brutal dictators and then feign surprise when it goes belly up.

    How many failures do we need in the Middle East before we take stock of history?

    It ain’t stupid and I’m not a buffoon. There are those on here and other social media forums that do condemn and oppose everything Trump and May do.
    Only a total f***ing buffoon would disagree with that.

    Ah that moron that does his politics by tweet and the twot that is so shit at having an opinion shes barely allowed to talk publically ?

    only a buffoon would blindly follow there outlook on the world
    And just to confirm, I don’t blindly follow any politician. My initial comments were aimed at those that blindly oppose certain politicians whilst blindly following others.
  • shine166 said:

    I guess all the anti Trump/May brigade would rather do it diplomatically via the UN ?
    Oh, we tried that but the Russians veto everything.
    Or draw a red line which must not be crossed.
    Oh, Obama already did that but didn’t act when it was crossed, then let the Russians “dispose” of Assad’s chemical weapons.

    Really stupid comment - this isn't about being anti Trump or May it's about having a coherent foreign policy. Only a total f***ing buffoon would say this has been thought through - it's a knee jerk publicity seeking stunt with nothing to follow through.

    Western foreign policy has been a total disaster in the Middle East - we've helped create half the problems and we've learnt nothing.

    Air strikes in themselves are not a strategy - any brief study of history will demonstrate that. You can't carve up a region with ridiculous boundaries, supply it with arms, randomly support brutal dictators and then feign surprise when it goes belly up.

    How many failures do we need in the Middle East before we take stock of history?

    It ain’t stupid and I’m not a buffoon. There are those on here and other social media forums that do condemn and oppose everything Trump and May do.
    Only a total f***ing buffoon would disagree with that.

    Ah that moron that does his politics by tweet and the twot that is so shit at having an opinion shes barely allowed to talk publically ?

    only a buffoon would blindly follow there outlook on the world
    I’m surprised you can spell buffoon, considering your appalling grammar.
    I don’t blame her for not having an opinion. Dare to oppose some on here, with a different opinion, and all you get is abuse.

    ah... the old 'hes abusing me because he dared to used my quote on me' trick... very clever

    and youre a grammer nazi too... congratulations on being a moron
  • shine166 said:

    I guess all the anti Trump/May brigade would rather do it diplomatically via the UN ?
    Oh, we tried that but the Russians veto everything.
    Or draw a red line which must not be crossed.
    Oh, Obama already did that but didn’t act when it was crossed, then let the Russians “dispose” of Assad’s chemical weapons.

    Really stupid comment - this isn't about being anti Trump or May it's about having a coherent foreign policy. Only a total f***ing buffoon would say this has been thought through - it's a knee jerk publicity seeking stunt with nothing to follow through.

    Western foreign policy has been a total disaster in the Middle East - we've helped create half the problems and we've learnt nothing.

    Air strikes in themselves are not a strategy - any brief study of history will demonstrate that. You can't carve up a region with ridiculous boundaries, supply it with arms, randomly support brutal dictators and then feign surprise when it goes belly up.

    How many failures do we need in the Middle East before we take stock of history?

    It ain’t stupid and I’m not a buffoon. There are those on here and other social media forums that do condemn and oppose everything Trump and May do.
    Only a total f***ing buffoon would disagree with that.

    Ah that moron that does his politics by tweet and the twot that is so shit at having an opinion shes barely allowed to talk publically ?

    only a buffoon would blindly follow there outlook on the world
    And just to confirm, I don’t blindly follow any politician. My initial comments were aimed at those that blindly oppose certain politicians whilst blindly following others.

    Just to confirm, I dont really give 2 shits so stop being so precious
  • All our bombs have done is killed more innocent people.

    The rhetoric about 'standing up to Putin' is nonsense and only there so Trump and May can get a few approval points.
  • No fan of Corbyn and think he would be a poor PM but what he says is correct: if this is handled badly it is likely to escalate and make things worse all round. The timing of this with the new embarrassing book on Trump coming out, which is now not the headline story, is very suspect as well.
  • seth plum said:

    She didn’t need to ask permission she done the right thing and I am glad she did

    Corbyn wouldn’t do anything if you were caught with your fingers in his old lady the man is a coward

    If we would have told comerade corbyn what was happening he would have rang putin on the red phone

    He wouldn't need to. Simply tip off his Czech handler.
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