No one else has mentioned it so maybe it was part of a bad dream, did anyone else see mavididi in the last few minutes (having done jack shit before then) try and meet a ball and end up over the advertising hoardings he had gone in so hard?
Doesn’t excuse these rubbish efforts before than but in the interests of balance and that thought I would mention it.
It’s the hope that gets you. I had hit the wall after the Peterborough game and that was it for me for the season. Then, Lee Bowyer comes in and turns it around. 9 points out of 9 and Charlton playing with a flair not seen for a few years. Yes. COYR!! Playoffs here we come. We’ve got our Charlton back!!!
And then the let down. What a team we support. You just couldn’t make it up. Back to normal but even worse. What a shambles we’ve become. And Palace and Millwall doing alright. Not good at all.
I was never getting ahead of myself when Bow stepped in. Knowing in the back of mind we suseptable. I am taking it one game at a time. But we are capable of rising again and dropping again before the end of the season in just four games. It's that crazy. As Greavsie says "It's a funny old game Saint!"
Well I've watched the first 20 mins on VP, and so far it's not quite as bad as I was expecting. We look lethargic though. Had Ajose's shot flown in to the top right hand corner instead of being saved, perhaps......
Some of it has to do with the loanees imo. They don't have a vested interest and very unlikely to be here next season. Why bust a gut (and break a leg ?) to get us into the play-offs. Not saying they don't care but don't need to put in 110% effort. 3 weeks time they can be sunning themselves in Spain, Dubai etc & will most likely playing in the Championship in any case (don't think any will be playing in the Premiership but not likely League 1 either).
Better to play players contracted to the club who want to prove themselves & play at a higher level. Not all the reason why there had been a dip in form, but just a 10% "not bothered" attitude (pulling out of a challenge or not making that lung bursting run) could make a difference.
I think there is something in this and, regardless of the rules, a high proportion of loaners (I think we had 5 in our match day squad of 18) feels too high to me for the reasons you mention.
Some of it has to do with the loanees imo. They don't have a vested interest and very unlikely to be here next season. Why bust a gut (and break a leg ?) to get us into the play-offs. Not saying they don't care but don't need to put in 110% effort. 3 weeks time they can be sunning themselves in Spain, Dubai etc & will most likely playing in the Championship in any case (don't think any will be playing in the Premiership but not likely League 1 either).
Better to play players contracted to the club who want to prove themselves & play at a higher level. Not all the reason why there had been a dip in form, but just a 10% "not bothered" attitude (pulling out of a challenge or not making that lung bursting run) could make a difference.
I think there is something in this and, regardless of the rules, a high proportion of loaners (I think we had 5 in our match day squad of 18) feels too high to me for the reasons you mention.
If players are just waiting to leave they're not really going to get stuck in.
On a slightly different angle, I see no leaders in the team. Bauer and Pearse should have that role but seem to be showing no leadership. A real leader could pull it all together.
I think Duchatelet gave more than one message when he gave Bowyer the job until the end of the season. How else can you explain such a change in form from from those first three wins? Something has turned off the players big time since.
Bowyer changed the system and tactics. The first opponents would have been caught unawares. The next two opponents would have had us watched only the once, so wouldn't have had time to plan properly. By the time a new manager has got to the fourth game, the opposition would have had two looks and come up with a game-plan.
The new manager bounce, is often the opposition managers been unfamiliar with the tactics. The more games the new manager plays, the more everyone picks up his tactics, and the bounce ends.
Let's see how he adjusts.
It will be interesting for sure but any alterations will be influenced by which players he has the hump with and whether he drops them.
We had players bottling challenges, not being first to the ball, not being aggressive enough in attacking intent. Whilst I get that the formation has been sussed, if the front two actually had got on the ball it would have been a whole lot better.
Ajose chased the channels and pushed the defender over...momentum gone. Ajose was given a superb ball over the top by Zyro but didn't even get a foot on it....chance gone. Reeves played a magic through ball to Ajose....he didn't reach it. Zyro hardly jumped for a header or demanded the ball (let alone keep the ball). We didn't flood the box when we did get a cross over. Zyro made a pathetic attempt to head a perfect Da Silva cross to the far post. Dijksteel didn't provide any attacking intent, especially late on when Scunny had dropped back and there were acres of space. Mavididi hid. Magennis tried but was ineffective. Fosu tried and looked lively but got frustrated and ran into blind alleys.
Bowyer did change it in the 1st half. He moved Kakai to the left and it became more of a 4-1-3-2 than a diamond. Overall it looked much more like lack of motivation and shit play rather than lack of tactical nous. Imagine the outrage if Bowyer had started the game 4-5-1 at home? JJ was on TV the other night telling people how we'd gone two up top. It looks like that's the preferred outlook, so the system will have to be tailored to that.
We are up against teams with supposedly less gifted players yet tactically they are always more astute.
Our play is incredibly slow and predictable and we could barely get out of our own half once Scunthorpe started closing us down. We are forced into making mistakes as we stroll around the pitch.
I'm pretty stunned how quickly we've gone backwards again.
Fed up of saying the same thing. If a strong team (physically) sets up defensively with a view to pressing in midfield and breaking we can't penetrate them. They don't even have to be any good! The trick is to always outnumber us in the box and we are basically helpless. The next manager will have to decide whether to try to improve the passing game we have or go back to square one.
Fed up of saying the same thing. If a strong team (physically) sets up defensively with a view to breaking we can't penetrate them. The trick is to always outnumber us in the box and we are basically helpless. The next manager will have to decide whether to try to improve the passing game we have or go back to square one.
We don't have the players to play a passing game - that's plainly evident. Very few teams do.
We've failed with the passing game in both the Championship and in L1. The best we've managed since RD took over is a run of 5 or 6 games playing attractive football which the opposition soon suss out as It's far too predictable.
The more loanees, the bigger the problem. As I recall this was an issue before SCP put together the promotion winning side.
We need more - the season we got relegated under Parkinson / Pardew we had 10 loans! Soares, McEveley, Waghorn, Primus, Bouazza, Kandol, Gillespie, Murty, Butterfield and Ward. Managed to use 41 players that season.
It's a bit simplistic to just blame loanees, after all Amos and JDS have been amongst our best players this season, and Scunthorpe have loan players in their team as well, including the goalscorer Toney.
What we have is an unbalanced squad with too many "flashy" individual players. You need a player with a bit of magic, but to get out of this league what you really need is a well drilled team.
Bowyer putting the poor performance down to fatigue. Whilst there may be some truth to that, it just sounds feeble. This is the business end of the season where so often it comes down to who has the ambition, drive and determination. I am afraid this squad just don't have it.
It's a funny thing ...... if we were on a winning run of games, top of the League and after a long season, promotion almost within our grasp, players wouldn't feel so tired. The adrenalin would keep them going. They would be showing that they really want it.
A couple of games ago, the playoffs and a Wembley final were well within our grasp. After a couple of lacklustre defeats, many of us get the impression that some players are not really bothered.
I think Duchatelet gave more than one message when he gave Bowyer the job until the end of the season. How else can you explain such a change in form from from those first three wins? Something has turned off the players big time since.
Bowyer changed the system and tactics. The first opponents would have been caught unawares. The next two opponents would have had us watched only the once, so wouldn't have had time to plan properly. By the time a new manager has got to the fourth game, the opposition would have had two looks and come up with a game-plan.
The new manager bounce, is often the opposition managers been unfamiliar with the tactics. The more games the new manager plays, the more everyone picks up his tactics, and the bounce ends.
Let's see how he adjusts.
I agree with this, but to be fair to Bowyer he has had very little time on the training pitch since he switched to the diamond. The change to the diamond has also brought in some players to the team that have had very little football this season and they have been playing 2 games a week for the last 3 weeks which is a heavy workload both physically and mentally. I would have liked him to rotate more in the preceding games and taken some risks with players that are not quite ready for the first team in order to freshen things up and keep people on their toes. You need overlapping full backs in a diamond and we've just not got that on the right with either full back option. I'd rather he'd used Konsa and/or Djiksteel in midfield to give Aribo / Forster Caskey a break and pull someone up from the U23s to cover right full back (if there is anyone since they let Barnes go) . Yes this would be a risk, but so is relying on players that a physically and mentally tired.
Hopefully there will be some personnel changes for Tuesday even if we don't get a change in shape.
fatigue is just a bullshit cop out line thrown out......every other team/squad in our division has the same issues.
Aribo, Zhyro, Djiksteel, Page even Aribo and Reeves were either nowhere near the team under Robinson or on the fringes of it. Going from no competitive football to 6 games in three weeks is a big ask on the body but especially the mind
fatigue is just a bullshit cop out line thrown out......every other team/squad in our division has the same issues.
Aribo, Zhyro, Djiksteel, Page even Aribo and Reeves were either nowhere near the team under Robinson or on the fringes of it. Going from no competitive football to 6 games in three weeks is a big ask on the body but especially the mind
Our full backs have been alternated in just about every game under Bowyer though (which is what Spurs do) so they should be fairly fresh
And it's not as if we've played massively more games in this period than other clubs around us. Wigan and Shrewsbury have had loads of cup games for example
I couldn’t work out what kaikai was supposed to be doing, if was anything productive, he failed.
Saw him in the middle, drift out a bit but not much, whatever he was asked to do he either didn’t or couldn’t do it.
It seems we are playing him in the wrong position, it seems to me, and I have not seen him as much as some, that he would be best played at Selhurst Park
I'll pay his bloody bus fare - like playing with ten men!
Bowyer putting the poor performance down to fatigue. Whilst there may be some truth to that, it just sounds feeble. This is the business end of the season where so often it comes down to who has the ambition, drive and determination. I am afraid this squad just don't have it.
Fatigue? Christ, they had three and a bit bloody days to get over Wimbledon. Thought players these days were 'super fit' athletes? A poor excuse from Bow this; they were utter crap on Saturday - simple as that.
Bowyer putting the poor performance down to fatigue. Whilst there may be some truth to that, it just sounds feeble. This is the business end of the season where so often it comes down to who has the ambition, drive and determination. I am afraid this squad just don't have it.
Fatigue? Christ, they had three and a bit bloody days to get over Wimbledon. Thought players these days were 'super fit' athletes? A poor excuse from Bow this; they were utter crap on Saturday - simple as that.
I'm not defending the team, far from it, but they do run 6 miles per game (roughly).
If you've not played for a considerable period like Zyro, Ajose, Reeves, Page or been injured like Da Silva, Fosu etc, it's not altogether surprising that they can't run flat out for 6 miles twice a week.
Yes they can still run, but can they chase down everything like in the first 3 games.
I think we were desperately disappointing, but there is possibly some mitigation there.
Bowyer putting the poor performance down to fatigue. Whilst there may be some truth to that, it just sounds feeble. This is the business end of the season where so often it comes down to who has the ambition, drive and determination. I am afraid this squad just don't have it.
It's a funny thing ...... if we were on a winning run of games, top of the League and after a long season, promotion almost within our grasp, players wouldn't feel so tired. The adrenalin would keep them going. They would be showing that they really want it.
A couple of games ago, the playoffs and a Wembley final were well within our grasp. After a couple of lacklustre defeats, many of us get the impression that some players are not really bothered.
Four points from the next two games then we're play off contenders again.
Torture. I'm 44 minutes into the second half, watching on VP.
We weren't quite as bad as I was expecting, but we seemed to have no energy. We were never tight enough when marking, we were always second to the loose ball, and we won too few 50/50 challenges.
Having said that, we didn't have the run of the ball, and the ref was poor. Nothing worked for us, and every little spell of decent possession ended in a slightly misplaced pass (or a very misplaced pass).
Scunthorpe seemed to have much more width, and were able to exploit it unhampered. The wide man rarely had more than his marker to beat, whereas when we went wide Scunthorpe swamped that part of the pitch, and we rarely progressed.
Up front we weren't nearly busy enough and were hopelessly outnumbered, as there weren't enough runners from midfield. Until the last ten minutes maybe. When we're 1-0 down we should immediately play like there are only ten minutes left, instead of faffing about.
And corners. It's not the fact that we often don't beat the first man, it's more a case of we never make the first man a Charlton player. First rule of corners; have someone there for the flick on.
Two points about Pearce. Against Plymouth he was like a man possessed, but he's gone all quiet again. And when he brings the ball forward, the other side always back off him. He should try running further with the ball occasionally, just to keep them guessing.
But our whole season has been up and down. We've occasionally looked imperious in games, only for the other team to suss out that they only have to work hard and get aggressive to stop us playing, and we can fall apart. I don't know how you counter that with the players available to us, as, believe it or not, I'm not Jimmy Seed.
Too lightweight and too reliant on fosu - felt like a promotion team for a couple of games but reverted back to the sort of team who will finish a few places away, which realistically is what we are. Glad only1 game left, bored of it all now and bored waiting for the Belgium arse to sell up. No season ticket for me until he does but lets hope he does the honourable thing and f!!cks off in time so the new lot can re build for next season.
Bowyer putting the poor performance down to fatigue. Whilst there may be some truth to that, it just sounds feeble. This is the business end of the season where so often it comes down to who has the ambition, drive and determination. I am afraid this squad just don't have it.
It's a funny thing ...... if we were on a winning run of games, top of the League and after a long season, promotion almost within our grasp, players wouldn't feel so tired. The adrenalin would keep them going. They would be showing that they really want it.
A couple of games ago, the playoffs and a Wembley final were well within our grasp. After a couple of lacklustre defeats, many of us get the impression that some players are not really bothered.
Four points from the next two games then we're play off contenders again.
Football fans are so fickle.
We'll go up.
In principal, I really like what you say Elfie. Normally, wearing my rose-tinted specs I would agree with you (and give you a like). But this is Charlton, we know it's all fizzling out for whatever reasons real or imagined.
Four points from the next two games then we're play off contenders again.
Football fans are so fickle.
We'll go up.
In principal, I really like what you say Elfie. Normally, wearing my rose-tinted specs I would agree with you (and give you a like). But this is Charlton, we know it's all fizzling out for whatever reasons real or imagined.
So, you got a lol instead
Too many times you get a team come from nowhere and get in the play-offs.
Once there the teams who have been battling for the automatic places can f*** it up.
This is where we come in. Having only been twice this season I am fully expecting to go a third time.
Comments
Doesn’t excuse these rubbish efforts before than but in the interests of balance and that thought I would mention it.
And then the let down. What a team we support. You just couldn’t make it up. Back to normal but even worse. What a shambles we’ve become. And Palace and Millwall doing alright. Not good at all.
Had Ajose's shot flown in to the top right hand corner instead of being saved, perhaps......
But it didn't.
A real leader could pull it all together.
We had players bottling challenges, not being first to the ball, not being aggressive enough in attacking intent. Whilst I get that the formation has been sussed, if the front two actually had got on the ball it would have been a whole lot better.
Ajose chased the channels and pushed the defender over...momentum gone. Ajose was given a superb ball over the top by Zyro but didn't even get a foot on it....chance gone. Reeves played a magic through ball to Ajose....he didn't reach it. Zyro hardly jumped for a header or demanded the ball (let alone keep the ball). We didn't flood the box when we did get a cross over. Zyro made a pathetic attempt to head a perfect Da Silva cross to the far post. Dijksteel didn't provide any attacking intent, especially late on when Scunny had dropped back and there were acres of space. Mavididi hid. Magennis tried but was ineffective. Fosu tried and looked lively but got frustrated and ran into blind alleys.
Bowyer did change it in the 1st half. He moved Kakai to the left and it became more of a 4-1-3-2 than a diamond. Overall it looked much more like lack of motivation and shit play rather than lack of tactical nous. Imagine the outrage if Bowyer had started the game 4-5-1 at home? JJ was on TV the other night telling people how we'd gone two up top. It looks like that's the preferred outlook, so the system will have to be tailored to that.
Our play is incredibly slow and predictable and we could barely get out of our own half once Scunthorpe started closing us down. We are forced into making mistakes as we stroll around the pitch.
I'm pretty stunned how quickly we've gone backwards again.
We've failed with the passing game in both the Championship and in L1. The best we've managed since RD took over is a run of 5 or 6 games playing attractive football which the opposition soon suss out as It's far too predictable.
We're like a very bad version of Arsenal.
What we have is an unbalanced squad with too many "flashy" individual players. You need a player with a bit of magic, but to get out of this league what you really need is a well drilled team.
players wouldn't feel so tired. The adrenalin would keep them going. They would be showing that they really want it.
A couple of games ago, the playoffs and a Wembley final were well within our grasp.
After a couple of lacklustre defeats, many of us get the impression that some players are not really bothered.
Hopefully there will be some personnel changes for Tuesday even if we don't get a change in shape.
And it's not as if we've played massively more games in this period than other clubs around us. Wigan and Shrewsbury have had loads of cup games for example
If you've not played for a considerable period like Zyro, Ajose, Reeves, Page or been injured like Da Silva, Fosu etc, it's not altogether surprising that they can't run flat out for 6 miles twice a week.
Yes they can still run, but can they chase down everything like in the first 3 games.
I think we were desperately disappointing, but there is possibly some mitigation there.
Football fans are so fickle.
We'll go up.
We weren't quite as bad as I was expecting, but we seemed to have no energy. We were never tight enough when marking, we were always second to the loose ball, and we won too few 50/50 challenges.
Having said that, we didn't have the run of the ball, and the ref was poor. Nothing worked for us, and every little spell of decent possession ended in a slightly misplaced pass (or a very misplaced pass).
Scunthorpe seemed to have much more width, and were able to exploit it unhampered. The wide man rarely had more than his marker to beat, whereas when we went wide Scunthorpe swamped that part of the pitch, and we rarely progressed.
Up front we weren't nearly busy enough and were hopelessly outnumbered, as there weren't enough runners from midfield. Until the last ten minutes maybe. When we're 1-0 down we should immediately play like there are only ten minutes left, instead of faffing about.
And corners. It's not the fact that we often don't beat the first man, it's more a case of we never make the first man a Charlton player. First rule of corners; have someone there for the flick on.
Two points about Pearce. Against Plymouth he was like a man possessed, but he's gone all quiet again.
And when he brings the ball forward, the other side always back off him. He should try running further with the ball occasionally, just to keep them guessing.
But our whole season has been up and down. We've occasionally looked imperious in games, only for the other team to suss out that they only have to work hard and get aggressive to stop us playing, and we can fall apart.
I don't know how you counter that with the players available to us, as, believe it or not, I'm not Jimmy Seed.
But this is Charlton, we know it's all fizzling out for whatever reasons real or imagined.
So, you got a lol instead
Four points from the next two games then we're play off contenders again.
Football fans are so fickle.
We'll go up.
In principal, I really like what you say Elfie. Normally, wearing my rose-tinted specs I would agree with you (and give you a like).
But this is Charlton, we know it's all fizzling out for whatever reasons real or imagined.
So, you got a lol instead
Too many times you get a team come from nowhere and get in the play-offs.
Once there the teams who have been battling for the automatic places can f*** it up.
This is where we come in. Having only been twice this season I am fully expecting to go a third time.