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Road traffic accident - advice/thoughts please

My son's car which he was driving and I was a passenger were in collision with a large lorry last Friday evening.

This happened on a roundabout on which we were going straight on and the lorry we discovered when it hit us was turning right. The lorry was in the left hand and we were in the right hand lane.

As you approach the roundabout there are 3 lanes. Left hand lane for turning left only. the middle for straight on and right hand lane for straight on or right. The approach and exit for the roundabout are dual carriageway.

We were nearly passed the lorry when he suddenly turned right without indicating and he clearly didn't look for or see us as he hit the car on the wheel arch of the near side rear wheel.

It doesn't help that the driver of the lorry is Czech as it complicates things of course. when he got out of his cab he said it's ok for lorries to turn right from the left hand lane. When the police arrived he told them he didn't speak English. Great!

The police weren't that interested and to a degree probably because there's little to nothing they can do about foreign drivers.

We're anticipating a long drawn out insurance process where we will struggle to win I'm guessing even though the lorry driver was totally in the wrong.

I've been trying to get a definitive answer as to whether lorries can turn right from the left hand of two lanes even if they are indicating.

I'd be interested in people's thoughts and or advice on any aspect of this. Thanks.

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Comments

  • I don't know for sure - but I'm thinking about extra long lorries, which would have to use the left lane sometimes, so that they fit around the turn. In which case, the onus is on the lorry driver to indicate as such and keep a proper lookout for cars and cyclists.
  • edited May 2018
    I had a similar scenario on a roundabout, albeit not with a lorry driven by a Czech person. I ended up having to go on Google maps and take screen shots of the markings on the roundabout to prove I was in the right.

    You may have already done so but if not worth doing.

    Having read everyone elses comments I had no idea lorries may be different so my advice is probably useless!
  • I am pretty sure they can as they may not make the turn from the right lane regardless of the lane markings. I am always super cautious at multi-lane roundabouts for that reason.
  • Phil said:

    My son's car which he was driving and I was a passenger were in collision with a large lorry last Friday evening.

    This happened on a roundabout on which we were going straight on and the lorry we discovered when it hit us was turning right. The lorry was in the left hand and we were in the right hand lane.

    As you approach the roundabout there are 3 lanes. Left hand lane for turning left only. the middle for straight on and right hand lane for straight on or right. The approach and exit for the roundabout are dual carriageway.

    We were nearly passed the lorry when he suddenly turned right without indicating and he clearly didn't look for or see us as he hit the car on the wheel arch of the near side rear wheel.

    It doesn't help that the driver of the lorry is Czech as it complicates things of course. when he got out of his cab he said it's ok for lorries to turn right from the left hand lane. When the police arrived he told them he didn't speak English. Great!

    The police weren't that interested and to a degree probably because there's little to nothing they can do about foreign drivers.

    We're anticipating a long drawn out insurance process where we will struggle to win I'm guessing even though the lorry driver was totally in the wrong.

    I've been trying to get a definitive answer as to whether lorries can turn right from the left hand of two lanes even if they are indicating.

    I'd be interested in people's thoughts and or advice on any aspect of this. Thanks.

    Pretty sure there’s nothing stated in law giving them a specific exemption, but fact is a lot of the time large vehicles do need to be further over to complete the manoeuvre of turning right/left or going around roundabouts and this will be taken into consideration. A simple question of angles.
  • Doesn’t make it not his fault (lorry) but rule 187 refers to long vehicles.
  • I've no idea, but I can't see how any vehicle could be correct, turning right at a roundabout, if you are in the left hand lane.

    Do you have any free legal advice on bank accounts, credit cards or home insurance ?

    You could also try Citizens Advice Bureau.
  • edited May 2018
    Phil said:

    My son's car which he was driving and I was a passenger were in collision with a large lorry last Friday evening.

    This happened on a roundabout on which we were going straight on and the lorry we discovered when it hit us was turning right. The lorry was in the left hand and we were in the right hand lane.

    As you approach the roundabout there are 3 lanes. Left hand lane for turning left only. the middle for straight on and right hand lane for straight on or right. The approach and exit for the roundabout are dual carriageway.

    We were nearly passed the lorry when he suddenly turned right without indicating and he clearly didn't look for or see us as he hit the car on the wheel arch of the near side rear wheel.

    It doesn't help that the driver of the lorry is Czech as it complicates things of course. when he got out of his cab he said it's ok for lorries to turn right from the left hand lane. When the police arrived he told them he didn't speak English. Great!

    The police weren't that interested and to a degree probably because there's little to nothing they can do about foreign drivers.

    We're anticipating a long drawn out insurance process where we will struggle to win I'm guessing even though the lorry driver was totally in the wrong.

    I've been trying to get a definitive answer as to whether lorries can turn right from the left hand of two lanes even if they are indicating.

    I'd be interested in people's thoughts and or advice on any aspect of this. Thanks.

    My fiancee was hit by a polish lorry driver on the front nearside wing 2 years ago. Almost identical otherwise.

    She has just had her excess refunded as the foreign driver refused to respond to their approaches and they had previously paid for all repairs.
  • All these foreign lorry drivers are the bane of our lives, should ban the fuckers from coming over here.

    None of them pay the toll at the Dartford crossing because this country cannot be arsed to chase them down abroad and they are clogging up the roads.
  • If he went in to you then I would have thought he has liability. Coupled with the fact that he would have been left hand drive and on a roundabout....

    All you can do is state the facts from your side but I would say that you should be ok mate... Good luck
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  • Not a police matter unless injury or road blocked. I do not think the highway code is any different for an artic lorry in ragards to roundabout and lane discipline. It is down to the insurance to sort out... that is why we pay them so much money.
  • Greenie said:

    All these foreign lorry drivers are the bane of our lives, should ban the fuckers from coming over here.

    None of them pay the toll at the Dartford crossing because this country cannot be arsed to chase them down abroad and they are clogging up the roads.

    My mate had a great idea, there should be a massive lorry container park, say near Dover, and foreign lorries can only go as far as the lorry park, drop off the container and bugger off back to wherever they came from. British lorry drivers then pick up the containers and drop them to the UK destination, this will increase UK employment and we would have less of these type of accidents that are daily occurrences, coupled with the fact that many EU lorries are faulty and the driving culture/rules are different.
    My mate read somewhere that because of lorry drivers low pay in many European countries, they dont spend hardly any money when over here, and seldom use our fuel.
    They do now have to pay a daily levy. Not that it's much of a deterrent. Something like £25 a day... They do not tend to fill up over here...
  • Thanks for the comments/thoughts to date folks. I'll check rule 187. Unfortunately, my lad doesn't have dashcam as I'd feel more confident otherwise. I'm pretty sure the guy will deny not indicating although for me our road position and where he hit us ( read wheel arch ) ought to be proof enough that he wasn't looking and didn't see us.
  • I had a similar scenario on a roundabout, albeit not with a lorry driven by a Czech person. I ended up having to go on Google maps and take screen shots of the markings on the roundabout to prove I was in the right.

    You may have already done so but if not worth doing.

    Having read everyone elses comments I had no idea lorries may be different so my advice is probably useless!

    Thanks and intend to do that. As I said above it's a shame there's no dashcam to back it up.
  • edited May 2018
    You might wish to start here: https://mib.org.uk/making-a-claim/accidents-in-the-uk-involving-a-foreign-registered-vehicle/ (MIB stands for Motor Insurers Bureau. I have no idea whether they are likely to be able to help but there's some useful stuff on here - like checking both the cab and the trailer for number plates as they are different in some countries.)
  • cafcfan said:

    You might wish to start here: https://mib.org.uk/making-a-claim/accidents-in-the-uk-involving-a-foreign-registered-vehicle/ (MIB stands for Motor Insurers Bureau. I have no idea whether they are likely to be able to help but there's some useful stuff on here - like checking both the cab and the trailer for number plates as they are different in some countries.)

    Thanks will do.
  • Phil said:

    Thanks for the comments/thoughts to date folks. I'll check rule 187. Unfortunately, my lad doesn't have dashcam as I'd feel more confident otherwise. I'm pretty sure the guy will deny not indicating although for me our road position and where he hit us ( read wheel arch ) ought to be proof enough that he wasn't looking and didn't see us.

    Shouldn't really matter if he indicated or not. Far too many people seem to think that indicating means "Out of my way, coming through!", rather than "I'd like to manoeuvre, and will do so when clear or allowed to".
  • If the lorry driver has changed lanes suddenly, this is the point you should be making.

    Although as others have said, with a long vehicle, you sometimes need to use two lanes to get round a corner - in which case you should straddle both lanes on the approach to the junction so that nobody can try to get past.

    As for whether you can turn right from a particular lane, it depends on the road markings / signs. It's not uncommon for there to be more than one 'right turn' lane if the road you're going on to is multi-lane (e.g. a dual carriageway)

    I have met some roundabouts where (as you approach) the road to the left (and / or straight on) is fairly minor, and the road to the right is two lanes, and the markings show you're allowed to turn right from either lane. (I did my bus driver training / test somewhere there's one like this - one of the local examiner's tricks was to say "at the roundabout take the second exit, following the signs and road markings for place A" - which meant you stayed in the left hand lane so that you were in the correct - left - lane at the junction just after the roundabout.)

    But you still shouldn't change lanes while you're half way round if that means hitting someone!

    May be worth either (if it's close to home and practical to do so) taking some photos of the lane markings / signs on the approach to the roundabout, or taking some screen shots from 'street view' and letting your insurance company have these.

    Depending on what cover you have, your insurance company might pursue the claim for you but it could drag out for a while if the other vehicle is not UK owned.
  • Simialar thing happened to me last year on the South Circular at the Grove Park crossroads. Foreign lorry in left hand lane carried straight on whereas left hand lane is for left turn only. I'm in middle lane and was moving over to the left as that section then filters into one lane before the stretch to the bridge & Hither Green station. Didn't do too much damage to my car - passenger door is slightly off & not flush at the bottom/ edge when closed. Got his details but he was sayibg I drove into him(which was technically correct but he shouldn't have been there) so I just fotgot about it.

    3 months ago Hermes delivery driver scraped all the way diwn the druvers sude of my car whilst pulling out to pass me. My car was stationary & parked outside my home. Repairs toik over a month & cist the Insurance Company over £5k of damaged. He was from the EU too.

    Can Brexit mean we ban all foreign lorry druvers ????
  • Anyone got a good popcorn gif?
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  • Simialar thing happened to me last year on the South Circular at the Grove Park crossroads. Foreign lorry in left hand lane carried straight on whereas left hand lane is for left turn only. I'm in middle lane and was moving over to the left as that section then filters into one lane before the stretch to the bridge & Hither Green station. Didn't do too much damage to my car - passenger door is slightly off & not flush at the bottom/ edge when closed. Got his details but he was sayibg I drove into him(which was technically correct but he shouldn't have been there) so I just fotgot about it.

    3 months ago Hermes delivery driver scraped all the way diwn the druvers sude of my car whilst pulling out to pass me. My car was stationary & parked outside my home. Repairs toik over a month & cist the Insurance Company over £5k of damaged. He was from the EU too.

    Can Brexit mean we ban all foreign lorry druvers ????

    I saw an interview a while back and this EU driver explained the ten second indicator Motorway rule, employed by EU lorry drivers, they put on the indicator and count to ten, if they can go before ten then great, if not, then they go anyway.
  • Simialar thing happened to me last year on the South Circular at the Grove Park crossroads. Foreign lorry in left hand lane carried straight on whereas left hand lane is for left turn only. I'm in middle lane and was moving over to the left as that section then filters into one lane before the stretch to the bridge & Hither Green station. Didn't do too much damage to my car - passenger door is slightly off & not flush at the bottom/ edge when closed. Got his details but he was sayibg I drove into him(which was technically correct but he shouldn't have been there) so I just fotgot about it.

    3 months ago Hermes delivery driver scraped all the way diwn the druvers sude of my car whilst pulling out to pass me. My car was stationary & parked outside my home. Repairs toik over a month & cist the Insurance Company over £5k of damaged. He was from the EU too.

    Can Brexit mean we ban all foreign lorry druvers ????

    Good idea!! Seriously though, perhaps they could be made to take out some kind of surety/insurance so that their huge vehicles are impounded until their companies have paid out for claims that have been proved to be their fault.
    Many don't seem to give a toss for our road rules - I'm sure I've read of several accounts of foreign drivers being prosecuted for driving while well over the limit and killing people.
  • Phil said:

    Thanks for the comments/thoughts to date folks. I'll check rule 187. Unfortunately, my lad doesn't have dashcam as I'd feel more confident otherwise. I'm pretty sure the guy will deny not indicating although for me our road position and where he hit us ( read wheel arch ) ought to be proof enough that he wasn't looking and didn't see us.

    Whether he was indicating or not isn't important, he should have waited for a clear opportunity to make the turn, particularly as he would have known that coming from the left lane was a more risky manoeuvre. I can't see a situation where the lorry driver wins from an insurance point of view.
  • I always thought that if you have a collision on a roundabout, insurance wise you are foooked.

    After ‘investigating’ all the evidence you have collected, the Insurance companies will conclude that neither of you were showing enough ‘due care and attention at a junction’ - both insurance companies will admit fault, both will pay out for each other, both of you will lose your no claims record. Multiple insurance premiums are then collected for the next 5 years to try and recoup the cost of the payout.

    Has anyone on here ever had a collision on a roundabout, (properly reported to all the insurance companies) and never had to pay a penny more for your insurance premiums???....
  • It feels to me that many Lorry drivers of all nationalities drive with the attitude that I am bigger than you and it is your job to avoid me.
  • I am very grateful that when a lorry driver drove into me a few years ago he was English and immediately admitted he was in the wrong. I think it cost him his job because his company were not happy, but I kept my no claims.
  • It feels to me that many Lorry drivers of all nationalities drive with the attitude that I am bigger than you and it is your job to avoid me.

    True, but I think for the most part it's a pretty logical way of going about things. In this case however, the driver of the car could not reliably predict that the lorry was going to turn into him as he did not signal. Had he done so, this accident would likely never have happened.
  • Foreign lorries are supposed to have properly adapted mirrors to drive in the UK if they are left hand drive.

    Hope everyone is ok.
  • I have seen lots of lorries not signal, or signal very late before changing lanes.
  • On a roundabout you need to give respect to articulated vehicles especially foreign ones, it’s not a new phenomenon that Vehicles the are left hookers make strange decisions on motorways and roundabouts

    I wouldn’t go up the outside of an English reg artic at a roundabout I’d let him be well in front of me before I pulled out as they are big heavy bstds that take a lot of skill to manouver one error and there’s only one winner
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