I don't get the logic. It's a good point that we were mentally strong enough during Bowyer's ten league games but because we lost to a team that's better than us over two legs, all of a sudden we aren't?
So you think we played well over the two legs except in 15 mins of the first leg
I don’t accept that Shrewsbury are a better team than the one bowyer got playing in his tenure and I don’t believe that he does but
over these two games they were better than us they were able to deal with the occasion and feed off it to raise their game enough to make us look shite
The only difference it can be is that they were mentally stronger than us and their players coped and ours never
That's where we disagree then. Shrewsbury are a team that, over the course of the season, were 16 points better than us. We beat them at their ground, yes. But it was during their worst run of form during the whole season.
The way the better team plays in a football match often dictates the result. Is it not telling that when Shrewsbury had an off game, they lost to us but when they had a good game, they beat us?
I don't think our performance over the two legs was in any way different to the 2-0 win at Shrewsbury earlier this season.
Go back and find that match thread. Loads of moaning that we weren't having any shots, we look poor etc etc then we scored from a scrappy set piece and that was all it needed. It was almost exactly the same game with a different outcome. The players did not hide away from their responsibilities today, that was not the difference between winning and losing.
So you think this squad is physical and experienced enough?
Too many similar types of player for me and that’s down to Robinson.
It was physically and experienced enough to get us to 6th
We also beat Shrewsbury, Plymouth, Blackburn and Portsmouth during the last 10 games do yes we were able to compete with those around us and even above us
It had a lot to do with the occasion and the fact that we went from chasing a spot to being two games from Wembley
There’s no shame In it if we learn from it
If we want more than 6th next season we need players with more about them physically in the squad, at least as options.
We also need more reliable, experienced players. Aribo, Dijksteel, Fosu etc are all young and at this stage aren’t consistent.
I think mental strength is part of it but a more balanced squad would make a huge difference.
How many of that 16 point difference was due to the thick scouse gob shite
The team that turned up against Pompey , Blackburn , Plymouth and Shrewsbury showed we were more than a match for them when on point and on our game
We never turned up in either game , the occasion got to us , I didn’t think Shrewsbury were a decent out fit
I can accept when we are turned over by a better team and we have performed at anywhere near our best but we never that was not a charlton performance that showed what we have been about for the last two months
How many players of ours would be able to hold their own in the Championship next year... I see one (Amos), maybe two (Pearce), three at best (Fosu?).
Now look at Shrewsbury... Henderson, Bolton, Beckles, Nsiala, Nolan, Godfrey to just name a few will all deserve to be playing in the Championship next year whether their team gets promoted or not.
Well done to Bow and Jacko for getting us into the play offs but the players Robinson and Slade left us with were just not good enough to beat a strong Shrewsbury over two games! Mind you Shrews did it in a quite dirty way! They kicked us in the head ,legs and Morris's albow on Bauer should have been a Red! Basically they bullied us! And we know we can't and don't stand up to that sort of thing and Hurst knew that And that's why Shrews used those tactics! Well anyway well done Shrewsbury and good luck in the final
How many players of ours would be able to hold their own in the Championship next year... I see one (Amos), maybe two (Pearce), three at best (Fosu?).
Now look at Shrewsbury... Henderson, Bolton, Beckles, Nsiala, Nolan, Godfrey to just name a few will all deserve to be playing in the Championship next year whether their team gets promoted or not.
They didn’t sell their best player (Holmes) in January...
Bowyer, Jackson and the squad definitely lifted all our spirits over the last ten games.
In the end we just weren’t good enough but I’ve not felt as upbeat as I have been lately for quite a while.
I’ll actually be quite angry if Bowyer is replaced. Both he and a Jacko have earned a crack.
This.
With bells on.
Agree, Bow was brilliant in his post-match interview. He and JJ should be given a go. I think he knows what is needed. I hope the new owners give him a chance.
How many players of ours would be able to hold their own in the Championship next year... I see one (Amos), maybe two (Pearce), three at best (Fosu?).
Now look at Shrewsbury... Henderson, Bolton, Beckles, Nsiala, Nolan, Godfrey to just name a few will all deserve to be playing in the Championship next year whether their team gets promoted or not.
They didn’t sell their best player (Holmes) in January...
And even he's struggled to make the team in Sheffield! Goes to show how weak our squad is...
I believe that this is very close to the basis we now have to build from. If my sense of departures is right, the obvious response is firstly there needs to be a lot of incoming players, and what we have even if they stay fit is nowhere near good enough to do more than right relegation.
Am I miles off the mark? Could I even be being optimistic?
How many of that 16 point difference was due to the thick scouse gob shite
The team that turned up against Pompey , Blackburn , Plymouth and Shrewsbury showed we were more than a match for them when on point and on our game
We never turned up in either game , the occasion got to us , I didn’t think Shrewsbury were a decent out fit
I can accept when we are turned over by a better team and we have performed at anywhere near our best but we never that was not a charlton performance that showed what we have been about for the last two months
I think we ran out of steam and the injuries, especially to Fosu, Page and Marshall hit us.
The team put so much into making 6th place.
They were like a middle distance runner who catches the leading pack at the last bend but then has nothing left in his legs for the final sprint.
They are clear flaws in Robinson's squad (too many young players, too many lightweights) but Bowyer got them playing and fighting.
How many of that 16 point difference was due to the thick scouse gob shite
The team that turned up against Pompey , Blackburn , Plymouth and Shrewsbury showed we were more than a match for them when on point and on our game
We never turned up in either game , the occasion got to us , I didn’t think Shrewsbury were a decent out fit
I can accept when we are turned over by a better team and we have performed at anywhere near our best but we never that was not a charlton performance that showed what we have been about for the last two months
I think we ran out of steam and the injuries, especially to Fosu, Page and Marshall hit us.
The team put so much into making 6th place.
They were like a middle distance runner who catches the leading pack at the last bend but then has nothing left in his legs for the final sprint.
They are clear flaws in Robinson's squad (too many young players, too many lightweights) but Bowyer got them playing and fighting.
In the end that just wasn't quite enough.
Billy Clarke too, he was probably our best player before he got injured.
I believe that this is very close to the basis we now have to build from. If my sense of departures is right, the obvious response is firstly there needs to be a lot of incoming players, and what we have even if they stay fit is nowhere near good enough to do more than right relegation.
Am I miles off the mark? Could I even be being optimistic?
Thanks to Bowyer and Jackson. Duchatelet’s team not good enough. Hopefully new owners and about 10 new players in the squad for a good bash at promotion next season.
I believe that this is very close to the basis we now have to build from. If my sense of departures is right, the obvious response is firstly there needs to be a lot of incoming players, and what we have even if they stay fit is nowhere near good enough to do more than right relegation.
Am I miles off the mark? Could I even be being optimistic?
A few "ifs" ...
IF the takeover happens in the next few days ... IF Lord Bowyer wants the manager's job ... IF the new owner wants to keep His Lordship in position ... IF His Lordship is allowed to build a squad (not just 16 players plus kids) capable of winning promotion ...
THEN a few names on that "out" list may think about staying for another season.
The players seemed happy with Bow over the last two months and were certainly playing for him, believing in him and what he wanted to achieve.
Thanks to Bowyer and Jackson. Duchatelet’s team not good enough. Hopefully new owners and about 10 new players in the squad for a good bash at promotion next season.
True - and Bowyer did well to get us into the play offs but I can't see him staying as manager. I think he had to win the play offs or at least get to Wembley to do that. From a new owner's perspective there would be too much risk attached - how good will he be at identifying the players we need etc...? Not fair, but nobody knows! Maybe if he sets out his plans including targets he can impress enough and I suppose there is the question of who else is available with a proven record!
So you think this squad is physical and experienced enough?
Too many similar types of player for me and that’s down to Robinson.
It was physically and experienced enough to get us to 6th
We also beat Shrewsbury, Plymouth, Blackburn and Portsmouth during the last 10 games do yes we were able to compete with those around us and even above us
It had a lot to do with the occasion and the fact that we went from chasing a spot to being two games from Wembley
There’s no shame In it if we learn from it
agreed. Dijksteel, Aribo, Konsa, JDS, Mavididi, Fosu - all young players who will learn from games like that. Lacked experience IMO
It was nothing to do with weak minds and everything to do with weak physicality and tactical nous.
We didn't have it in us mentally. I agree that we did so well scraping into the play offs that we seemed a bit mentally and physically knackered.
We offered very little for the most part over the two legs
I think we saw it all season - big physical teams that are not afraid to be a bit dirty and press us in midfield, always resetting defensively when they don't have the ball, generally do a job on us!
It was nothing to do with weak minds and everything to do with weak physicality and tactical nous.
We didn't have it in us mentally. I agree that we did so well scraping into the play offs that we seemed a bit mentally and physically knackered.
We offered very little for the most part over the two legs
I think we saw it all season - big physical teams that are not afraid to be a bit dirty and press us in midfield, always resetting defensively when they don't have the ball, generally do a job on us!
I cannot disagree with that, and that also ties in with the mental attitude. Shrewsbury were dirty, but I haven't seen any reports that this is how they have played all season. It was no doubt a tactic that worked exactly how they hoped.
It ties in with a mental attitude though. As others have said, how many points did we get from a losing position compared to points lost from a winning position. Not just about the mental attitude over the two legs, we have failed all season and I believe the tie would have been so different had we scored in the first 10 minutes Thursday.
I am sorry you simply do not get to fix problems overnight. It was and is a limited squad in terms of balance, experience, game management, physicality, depth, options and attacking threat.
Any number of us going back to preseason expressed concern as from where the goals would come. The club then exacerbated the problem by the insanity of the 31 August. I have never ever known any even semi professional side go into a season with one striking option. Especially with a striker who is not a natural goal scorer.
Such decisions come back to bite.
In both games against Shrewsbury Magennis had a series of crosses a natural striker would have put on target. On a couple of occasions he nearly managed it but far too often his body shape was horrendous. He simply does not address the ball properly and too often just blunders in. I like the guy but a Kermorgant would have created a real threat.
So the impetus provided by Bowyer and Jackson built a little momentum and you can ride such momentum a very long way but Shrewsbury were never going to let us play. It was "street football". They were physical. They were a little nasty leaving a boot in here and there with generous whack or two. They made sure for every challenge every Charlton player knew they would be there and from there with a little bit of talent they played.
There is one undeniable truth from level 8 to level 1 in the pyramid for all of the natural talent you may have you have to earn the right and compete to play. The squad we built was not designed to do that and certainly not on a consistent basis. Indeed with the size of squad and over emphasis on youth the strategy has two fault lines in built.
This is tough hard physical environment. It is competitive, athletic, professional sport. To succeed you need a winning mentality. It needs players who make things happen. It needs players who are not looking over their shoulders waiting for someone else to take responsibility. It needs players to lead. It needs winners. Bowyer is a winner. Jackson is a winner. Pearce is a winner. Now you name me anyone else.
The lads did their best. They tried their hardest. They came second. I again thank them for their endeavours it was a good effort and in the squad, and club circumstances a very good effort - now they can be certain they know what needs to be done to win.
It was nothing to do with weak minds and everything to do with weak physicality and tactical nous.
We didn't have it in us mentally. I agree that we did so well scraping into the play offs that we seemed a bit mentally and physically knackered.
We offered very little for the most part over the two legs
I think we saw it all season - big physical teams that are not afraid to be a bit dirty and press us in midfield, always resetting defensively when they don't have the ball, generally do a job on us!
I cannot disagree with that, and that also ties in with the mental attitude. Shrewsbury were dirty, but I haven't seen any reports that this is how they have played all season. It was no doubt a tactic that worked exactly how they hoped.
It ties in with a mental attitude though. As others have said, how many points did we get from a losing position compared to points lost from a winning position. Not just about the mental attitude over the two legs, we have failed all season and I believe the tie would have been so different had we scored in the first 10 minutes Thursday.
They did what they had to do to beat us. It is football. I haven't seen them play other teams but I doubt they are a naturally dirty side - they just know how to stop us.And we have players who are technically stronger if you allow them to be. I think Morris on Bauer was an indication of that mindset - kick em, push um, hurt em..... We have seen it all season, it isn't rocket science how to beat us. It is down to them doing their homework!
I would say that actually in the play off matches, whilst the tactic was still effective against us, we did battle better than we have done in league games against and actually there wasn't too much between the sides. We just needed something to go our way and it didn't. But a club of our size shouldn't have to rely on luck so much against clubs much smaller than us.
Thanks to LB Jacko, with special praise to Dasilva, Fosu, Dijksteel and Konsa - who all stepped up to the plate and brought a dead season back alive again.
Thanks to LB Jacko, with special praise to Dasilva, Fosu, Dijksteel and Konsa - who all stepped up to the plate and brought a dead season back alive again.
Really worry for our chances next season if we're sticking Jacko at full-back...
But at least the team showed a little spirit and cohesion towards the end of the season. Shame it didn't quite win us promotion, and our run out in the playoffs ended up pretty much like a quiet wet fart. However Bowyer and Jacko deserve alot of credit for getting us there in the first place. Couldn't see us in the top 6 if Robbo had stayed in charge.
I personally would like to see what Bowyer could deliver next season with a bit of financial backing, and with him and Jacko putting a team together.
nice to of got there but unfortunately season was over before lb came in, cant exactly say finishing 6th and losing 2-0 to shrewsbury fucking town is something to be proud of.
Comments
The way the better team plays in a football match often dictates the result. Is it not telling that when Shrewsbury had an off game, they lost to us but when they had a good game, they beat us?
I don't think our performance over the two legs was in any way different to the 2-0 win at Shrewsbury earlier this season.
Go back and find that match thread. Loads of moaning that we weren't having any shots, we look poor etc etc then we scored from a scrappy set piece and that was all it needed. It was almost exactly the same game with a different outcome. The players did not hide away from their responsibilities today, that was not the difference between winning and losing.
We also need more reliable, experienced players. Aribo, Dijksteel, Fosu etc are all young and at this stage aren’t consistent.
I think mental strength is part of it but a more balanced squad would make a huge difference.
The team that turned up against Pompey , Blackburn , Plymouth and Shrewsbury showed we were more than a match for them when on point and on our game
We never turned up in either game , the occasion got to us , I didn’t think Shrewsbury were a decent out fit
I can accept when we are turned over by a better team and we have performed at anywhere near our best but we never that was not a charlton performance that showed what we have been about for the last two months
Now look at Shrewsbury... Henderson, Bolton, Beckles, Nsiala, Nolan, Godfrey to just name a few will all deserve to be playing in the Championship next year whether their team gets promoted or not.
Konsa
Fosu
Kashi
Magennis
Ajose
Bauer
Sarr (!)
That leaves a skeleton first team match day squad such as
Phillips
Solly Pearce Lennon Page
Reeves JFC Aribo Djiksteel
Aherne-Grant Anderson (U23),
Subs. Maynard-Brewer, Marshall, Clarke, Umerah/Hanlan, Bowry/Blumberg, Lapslie/Maloney RHF.
Manager Vacancy.
I believe that this is very close to the basis we now have to build from.
If my sense of departures is right, the obvious response is firstly there needs to be a lot of incoming players, and what we have even if they stay fit is nowhere near good enough to do more than right relegation.
Am I miles off the mark? Could I even be being optimistic?
The team put so much into making 6th place.
They were like a middle distance runner who catches the leading pack at the last bend but then has nothing left in his legs for the final sprint.
They are clear flaws in Robinson's squad (too many young players, too many lightweights) but Bowyer got them playing and fighting.
In the end that just wasn't quite enough.
Hopefully new owners and about 10 new players in the squad for a good bash at promotion next season.
IF the takeover happens in the next few days ...
IF Lord Bowyer wants the manager's job ...
IF the new owner wants to keep His Lordship in position ...
IF His Lordship is allowed to build a squad (not just 16 players plus kids) capable of winning promotion ...
THEN a few names on that "out" list may think about staying for another season.
The players seemed happy with Bow over the last two months and were certainly playing for him, believing in him and what he wanted to achieve.
We offered very little for the most part over the two legs
It ties in with a mental attitude though. As others have said, how many points did we get from a losing position compared to points lost from a winning position. Not just about the mental attitude over the two legs, we have failed all season and I believe the tie would have been so different had we scored in the first 10 minutes Thursday.
Any number of us going back to preseason expressed concern as from where the goals would come. The club then exacerbated the problem by the insanity of the 31 August. I have never ever known any even semi professional side go into a season with one striking option. Especially with a striker who is not a natural goal scorer.
Such decisions come back to bite.
In both games against Shrewsbury Magennis had a series of crosses a natural striker would have put on target. On a couple of occasions he nearly managed it but far too often his body shape was horrendous. He simply does not address the ball properly and too often just blunders in. I like the guy but a Kermorgant would have created a real threat.
So the impetus provided by Bowyer and Jackson built a little momentum and you can ride such momentum a very long way but Shrewsbury were never going to let us play. It was "street football". They were physical. They were a little nasty leaving a boot in here and there with generous whack or two. They made sure for every challenge every Charlton player knew they would be there and from there with a little bit of talent they played.
There is one undeniable truth from level 8 to level 1 in the pyramid for all of the natural talent you may have you have to earn the right and compete to play. The squad we built was not designed to do that and certainly not on a consistent basis. Indeed with the size of squad and over emphasis on youth the strategy has two fault lines in built.
This is tough hard physical environment. It is competitive, athletic, professional sport. To succeed you need a winning mentality. It needs players who make things happen. It needs players who are not looking over their shoulders waiting for someone else to take responsibility. It needs players to lead. It needs winners. Bowyer is a winner. Jackson is a winner. Pearce is a winner. Now you name me anyone else.
The lads did their best. They tried their hardest. They came second. I again thank them for their endeavours it was a good effort and in the squad, and club circumstances a very good effort - now they can be certain they know what needs to be done to win.
That's the difference.
I would say that actually in the play off matches, whilst the tactic was still effective against us, we did battle better than we have done in league games against and actually there wasn't too much between the sides. We just needed something to go our way and it didn't. But a club of our size shouldn't have to rely on luck so much against clubs much smaller than us.
But at least the team showed a little spirit and cohesion towards the end of the season. Shame it didn't quite win us promotion, and our run out in the playoffs ended up pretty much like a quiet wet fart. However Bowyer and Jacko deserve alot of credit for getting us there in the first place. Couldn't see us in the top 6 if Robbo had stayed in charge.
I personally would like to see what Bowyer could deliver next season with a bit of financial backing, and with him and Jacko putting a team together.