If we were to keep most of the current squad and add a decent striker or two then I would say yes, give Bowyer a go - he deserves it. But picking a manager is such a lottery. Who would have thought that Lennie would have been so successful? Or Curbs, or Harris at Millwall? Or that Pardew would have been such a disaster for us but successful, sort of, at Newcastle? For example, I wonder if Sir Chris would have got us promoted without Kermorgant but Powell somehow got an excellent centre forward for free! Remember at the moment we are still a basket case: team is poorly balanced, and now we are likely to attract Aussie players as a sort of European Australian football outpost. Bowyer might be better off at another club. I could see him being very successful at somewhere like Leyton Orient.
What we think is irrelevant. It is going to be down to the new owner. I think they should consider Bowyer first and should ask him this question and sub question in advance. I mean give him time to prepare the answer - a few days at least. Why did Charlton fare so badly against strong physical sides and how would you fix it? They will then have the advantage over us to make an informed decision. They don't have to know the answer themselves, but Bowyer has to persuade them that he does. If he can do that - it should be a no brainer - he knows the strengths and weaknesses of the players probably as well as anybody!
Whoever does the job needs to understand the type of player in the division and how many games are played. Bring in players with proven fitness records, players who are capable of trapping a bag of cement, don't need to be world beaters just professional players who have the intelligence to do what they are told.
What fucks me off with football is people over complicate it, I'm not going to be as medieval as to possibly suggest it's a simple thing to just score more goals, working with players who can turn up, keep things simple and work for each other. The rest 90 times put of 100 will look after itself.
We are overloaded with some pretty technically gifted players but this league and the one above doesn't require that, Bowyer gave the ball players we have a solid boot up the arse however I'm sorry to say a lot of them are dyed in the wool pussies. You need to earn your right to win games and compete. When Powell was here competing was not an issue certainly in our promotion season or the following ones, we got found out more often than not for a loss of quality in the championship under Powelly. In this league under Robinson we were soooo easy to suss out and bully.
Build from the back, get two proper full backs in, the midfield needs at least 2 guys who can play 70 games between them and be an engine, at least 2 forward players who can do a similar number of games but be prepared to work their bollocks off chasing lost causes and work defenders, so many defensive mistakes are made at this level we don't need someone like Yann (although I would kill a man to have him back) as opportunities will present themselves.
The blanks can then be filled in but we need, more than anything a strong core of fit, professional footballers who will compete and work. We could have Klopp, Mourinho, Guardiola and they wouldn't get our current squad of lightweights promoted
Whoever does the job needs to understand the type of player in the division and how many games are played. Bring in players with proven fitness records, players who are capable of trapping a bag of cement, don't need to be world beaters just professional players who have the intelligence to do what they are told.
What fucks me off with football is people over complicate it, I'm not going to be as medieval as to possibly suggest it's a simple thing to just score more goals, working with players who can turn up, keep things simple and work for each other. The rest 90 times put of 100 will look after itself.
We are overloaded with some pretty technically gifted players but this league and the one above doesn't require that, Bowyer gave the ball players we have a solid boot up the arse however I'm sorry to say a lot of them are dyed in the wool pussies. You need to earn your right to win games and compete. When Powell was here competing was not an issue certainly in our promotion season or the following ones, we got found out more often than not for a loss of quality in the championship under Powelly. In this league under Robinson we were soooo easy to suss out and bully.
Build from the back, get two proper full backs in, the midfield needs at least 2 guys who can play 70 games between them and be an engine, at least 2 forward players who can do a similar number of games but be prepared to work their bollocks off chasing lost causes and work defenders, so many defensive mistakes are made at this level we don't need someone like Yann (although I would kill a man to have him back) as opportunities will present themselves.
The blanks can then be filled in but we need, more than anything a strong core of fit, professional footballers who will compete and work. We could have Klopp, Mourinho, Guardiola and they wouldn't get our current squad of lightweights promoted
Totally agree - you need a manager who can look at what we have and see what we need. What Curbs achieved up until the end if 2004 was to improve the team/squad continuously. He saw where we needed to be and where the gaps where and when we got there where we could improve further. I think the template is as you say the strong core of fit, professional footballers and the challenge is, how do you elevate them to something more than our opponents have.
This is a completely different skill to in game management. It is about building a team. Powell's reluctance to change things during a game was much criticised, including by me. But he saw where we were short when he joined us as manager and with a small amount of money and an even smaller amount of time, he transformed us. It was a massive achievement that is not recognised as much as it should be IMO.
What we don't know about Bowyer is his vision. How will he build on the strengths of the squad and deal with its weaknesses. What he has to do is not impress us, or say hire me or fire me to the new owners, but show them he has a vision for next season on how he can address this. If I was a new owner, I would look at his passion and belief in his plan and if it is genuine, I'd give him a go. If the pitch is getting another manager's team to play better - well that is an achievement but in itself not enough.
Perhaps Lord Bowyer could ask Daisy for some PowerPoint tips.
The great unknown is whether Bowyer has what it takes to build a side. He’s only just finding his way back into the game, which might hamper his ability to recruit the right players, assuming he’d know who the right players are. Of course he’d have help from Steve Gallen.
I do think he’d be ruthless enough to get rid of dead wood though.
I’d give him a go. I don’t think any manager will turn things round straight away unfortunately.
The great unknown is whether Bowyer has what it takes to build a side. He’s only just finding his way back into the game, which might hamper his ability to recruit the right players, assuming he’d know who the right players are. Of course he’d have help from Steve Gallen.
I do think he’d be ruthless enough to get rid of dead wood though.
I’d give him a go. I don’t think any manager will turn things round straight away unfortunately.
I hate going over old ground but Powell didn't inherit an awful side, Parkinson was really hard done by I felt to lose his job. Don't get me wrong that Chris Powell side were exactly what we needed and 3 of the players he signed I would have recommended in Hollands, Wiggins and Hayes. We would have gone up with or without Yann but he was such a strong player to dislodge someone like Hayes who I thought was a perfect foil for Wright-Phillips and to dislodge him so quickly absolutely propelled us to winning the league. I don't think we will hit the same jackpot again with a player like him who is worth 15 points a season on his own but we can pick up strong, fit players who can be moulded and coached and led. Something that people like Lee Bowyer have is a lot of first hand knowledge and an ability to adapt, if you listen to the nonsense about people not wanting him here because of falsely calling him a racist or because he was competitive and aggressive when he was a player you'd think we had employed Stalin. If he could inject just a tenth of his desire to win and compete into Forster-Caskey we would have a premier league regular on our hands. We don't necessarily need an old boy in charge, someone who is someway connected to the club but we do need someone who understands that football at this level isn't difficult unless you make it difficult or things are taken out of your hands like has been the case for every manager under Dushitalet
Unless they bring in a real big hitter I would be dissapointed if they brought in another badged up non-entity like the crap Scouser that talks a good game but delivers nothing.
Bowyer's twelve games at the helm produced six wins, one draw and five defeats. Average
But how many of those games were against the top 8 ? I think the answer is 8.
Extrapolated over a season that is 72.8333 points better than average for this league And a quarter of his 12 games were against Shrewsbury
Or to put it another way Bowyer (0 games managerial experience) took more points in first 9 Charlton games than Robinson (450 games + managerial experience) did in his last 20 with us.
The great unknown is whether Bowyer has what it takes to build a side. He’s only just finding his way back into the game, which might hamper his ability to recruit the right players, assuming he’d know who the right players are. Of course he’d have help from Steve Gallen.
I do think he’d be ruthless enough to get rid of dead wood though.
I’d give him a go. I don’t think any manager will turn things round straight away unfortunately.
I think we actually have a decent opportunity. We have some very good players for this level. We just need a few brought in to help the team compete in terms of the uglier but essential part of the game and probably a harder ask -getting some goals in the side. It shouldn't be about throwing the baby out with the bath water and that is why it is so important to get this appointment right. And that could mean Bowyer and it might not.
Think Bowyer would do okay. He with JJ as right-hand man should work. Whoever is manager needs funds to reshape the squad or else their appointment will be as short in duration and as relatively unsuccesful as any of those who have been appointed since Duchatalet bought the club. Let’s hope we get, to quote Henry Irving, “WIOTOS” and that it’s ASAFP.
Divided on this no doubt he and Jackson did a great job in getting us into the play offs but like everyone else want to get out of this league ASAP and not convinced that over an entire season he’ll be able to pull it off.
There’s no guarantees with any manager but I do think experience counts and Bowyer’s clearly is lacking in that department but how do you get experience, by being given a job and a chance, Catcha 22.
stick with him and give him a 2 year deal he has worked with the squad for this year, will have a idea how best to play with them and what needs adding etc.
Experience doesn't always count. There are managers that will guarantee to get you out - Pulis and Warnock spring to mind, but they are not available. Maybe if Bowyer's plans for next season seem credible and reasonable he should be given a shot at it. We don't know them of course. I think it would be good to get an old head in to help him - not as his assistant, but as a DoF or similar.
I thought with McCarthy's Ipswich sides, he generally had a couple of flair players, 8 big strong bullying clones and a keeper. That is probably a formula more likely to succeed at this level. Not sure I want him as manager though but ultimately, whoever rids us of the Belgian To**er should be able to decide who they want and have our support.
Think he was quoted once, saying he doesn't do "milky teams." In other words flair players are all very well but you have to have players who are prepared to get stuck in when required. I reckon that's what's needed to get us out of this league.
I thought with McCarthy's Ipswich sides, he generally had a couple of flair players, 8 big strong bullying clones and a keeper. That is probably a formula more likely to succeed at this level. Not sure I want him as manager though but ultimately, whoever rids us of the Belgian To**er should be able to decide who they want and have our support.
Think he was quoted once, saying he doesn't do "milky teams." In other words flair players are all very well but you have to have players who are prepared to get stuck in when required. I reckon that's what's needed to get us out of this league.
I'd give him a shot, he's shown he has something about him and considering he picked up as caretaker, his first role after less than 18 months as a coach/assistant, a dismal team on the slide and did what he did with them I think he's earned a shot.
I agree that having Jacko beside him, they probably need some experience around, whether that's as DoF or just an advisor would be for them all to work out. I can see Curbishley going for that and may work quite well for Bowyer as there'll be mutual respect.
He'll make mistakes as he learns but his and JJ's footballing brains are pretty impressive,
Worth giving a chance in my view. Our greatest successes over the past 25 years has been with two new/young managers in Powell and Curbs, far better than any so called 'experienced' manager we've had since Lennie.
More than anything under new owners we all need to pull in the same direction from day 1, I think we would anyway but under those two in the dug out it's a given.
Sing them up and announce on the same day as the take over!
Experience doesn't always count. There are managers that will guarantee to get you out - Pulis and Warnock spring to mind, but they are not available. Maybe if Bowyer's plans for next season seem credible and reasonable he should be given a shot at it. We don't know them of course. I think it would be good to get an old head in to help him - not as his assistant, but as a DoF or similar.
As I said, no guarantees with any manager experienced or not.
I’ve often wondered why Warnock has never been in the frame when we’ve been looking, praps not available at the times but think he’s got a decent track record in the lower leagues.
Should the Oz consortium take over I reckon whoever Paul Elliott recommends will get the gig. If you were to ask him though you’d not get anywhere, as it’s my guess he already has someone lined up. Just a hunch.
@Carter no-one is falsely calling Bowyer a racist - he has a conviction for it so it is proven fact.
I have been pleasantly surprised by his honesty, commitment and approach as a manager and like to think this proves he has very much left that a long way back in his past.
With a heavy heart I'd say no. He got a new manager "bounce", but in many of his games we were as toothless as under KR. More to the point he openly admitted that he took no interest in football for several years so I'd question his ability to bring the right players in (for all his faults KR was the one who brought in Amos, Fosu and Clarke - probably our best players this season and, if my memory is right, he was the one who really gave JDS his first regular slot). Player recruitment for next season is going to be so crucial and I'm not convinceed that LB is up to that job. That said, I'd be delighted if he rammed that back down my teeth!
@Carter no-one is falsely calling Bowyer a racist - he has a conviction for it so it is proven fact.
I have been pleasantly surprised by his honesty, commitment and approach as a manager and like to think this proves he has very much left that a long way back in his past.
Now I'm not saying he is innocent but he was never convicted so it is not a proven fact as you suggest. Personally at this moment I would give him a chance but that is without knowing what else is available to us.
Bowyer narrowly escaped jail after appearing in court for a violent drunken brawl in a McDonald's restaurant.
Bowyer - then the nation's most expensive teenage footballer - was caught on video throwing chairs at two Asian staff at the drive-in fast-food outlet in the Isle of Dogs, east London in 1996.
He was 19 at the time and had just been transferred from Charlton Athletic to Leeds for £3.5 m. Thames Magistrates Court heard how Bowyer and two friends arrived at the McDonald's in Trafalgar Way at 6am and after an argument over the menu rushed in and started throwing chairs. Two members of staff were injured in the attack.
Shamsu Mia suffered a bruised head and cuts and grazes and Mizam Hannan suffered bruising and a cut on his scalp which needed five stitches.
The three attackers were "clearly drunk", according to police.
Bowyer admitted affray, was fined £4,500 and ordered to pay £175 to the two victims.
Leeds United also fined Bowyer £4,000 and warned him that a repetition could result in his being sold. Magistrates told the footballer they had nearly jailed him for his part in the "disgraceful incident".
At what point does it say it's racially motivated, I've heard and read things like this happen at a number of places regardless of the race of the owners and staff of the establishment. Again I'm not saying it wasn't racially motivated but like the jury, I see no clear evidence of racism which you stated was a FACT.
Comments
I do think he’d be ruthless enough to get rid of dead wood though.
I’d give him a go. I don’t think any manager will turn things round straight away unfortunately.
Unless they bring in a real big hitter I would be dissapointed if they brought in another badged up non-entity like the crap Scouser that talks a good game but delivers nothing.
Coupled with nearly all takeovers result in a new man being brought in.
I would give Mick McCarthy the gig.
And a quarter of his 12 games were against Shrewsbury
Whoever is manager needs funds to reshape the squad or else their appointment will be as short in duration and as relatively unsuccesful as any of those who have been appointed since Duchatalet bought the club.
Let’s hope we get, to quote Henry Irving, “WIOTOS” and that it’s ASAFP.
A yes from Pearce, though I wouldn’t expect any other answer in public.
There’s no guarantees with any manager but I do think experience counts and Bowyer’s clearly is lacking in that department but how do you get experience, by being given a job and a chance, Catcha 22.
I agree that having Jacko beside him, they probably need some experience around, whether that's as DoF or just an advisor would be for them all to work out. I can see Curbishley going for that and may work quite well for Bowyer as there'll be mutual respect.
He'll make mistakes as he learns but his and JJ's footballing brains are pretty impressive,
Worth giving a chance in my view. Our greatest successes over the past 25 years has been with two new/young managers in Powell and Curbs, far better than any so called 'experienced' manager we've had since Lennie.
More than anything under new owners we all need to pull in the same direction from day 1, I think we would anyway but under those two in the dug out it's a given.
Sing them up and announce on the same day as the take over!
I’ve often wondered why Warnock has never been in the frame when we’ve been looking, praps not available at the times but think he’s got a decent track record in the lower leagues.
If you were to ask him though you’d not get anywhere, as it’s my guess he already has someone lined up.
Just a hunch.
I have been pleasantly surprised by his honesty, commitment and approach as a manager and like to think this proves he has very much left that a long way back in his past.
We clearly improved under him, but, for me, we still looked like we were making heavy weather of seeing off pretty lightweight opposition.
Bowyer - then the nation's most expensive teenage footballer - was caught on video throwing chairs at two Asian staff at the drive-in fast-food outlet in the Isle of Dogs, east London in 1996.
He was 19 at the time and had just been transferred from Charlton Athletic to Leeds for £3.5 m. Thames Magistrates Court heard how Bowyer and two friends arrived at the McDonald's in Trafalgar Way at 6am and after an argument over the menu rushed in and started throwing chairs. Two members of staff were injured in the attack.
Shamsu Mia suffered a bruised head and cuts and grazes and Mizam Hannan suffered bruising and a cut on his scalp which needed five stitches.
The three attackers were "clearly drunk", according to police.
Bowyer admitted affray, was fined £4,500 and ordered to pay £175 to the two victims.
Leeds United also fined Bowyer £4,000 and warned him that a repetition could result in his being sold. Magistrates told the footballer they had nearly jailed him for his part in the "disgraceful incident".