For those who are older, what were the tournament expectations going into 1990, especially coming off the back of Euro 88 where we were dreadful and lost every game.
I don't remember us being particularly great. Egypt were the only side we beat in 90 minutes, scraped past Belgium and then we needed 2 penalties to beat Cameroon.
Although we had some great players expectation wasn't massively high as we hadn't delivered for so long and indeed Euro '88 was a disaster. Also Bobby Robson had basically been "sacked" before the World Cup started. I was on cricket tour in Shropshire for the first two group games against Ireland and the Dutch which were pretty awful. We somehow managed to come top in the group after a less than impressive 1-0 over Egypt. I can't remember exactly how this WC worked as in numbers but I do recall that nearly all the top 3 teams from each group went into the knockout stage. The only positive I remember from the group games was that Gazza was emerging as a real world class talent. Then it all changed when we got to knockout games. Best part of a goalless two hours ended with Platts wonder goal and then a dramatically exciting 1/4 against Cameroon gave us all so much hope and belief. We had got better and would have won the final I'm sure, we played so well in the semi and deserved to win, but that's not how it goes. Unrealistic expectation really began with the Sven/Beckham and so called Golden Generation era from 2001-2010. Last night hurt a lot and I really thought we'd make the final but wasn't 100% sure we'd win it, unlike in 1990.
'90 by a country mile for many of the same reasons given by others. I'd also add that having watched us stink the place out at the tournaments since Italy (Euro 96 exempted) I've become resistant to the high levels of pain following England produces.
It's a bit like regularly hammering a nail through the old fella. Do it often enough and it'll eventually stop hurting......probably*
* I am in no way admitting to nor advocating a bit of carpentry on one's self.
90 still burns and I get a lump in my throat and sense of total devastation even now watching highlights of it. Was welling up watching a montage of it the other night with Bobby Robson's stoic reaction trying to conceal his hurt as Waddle skied it.
I'll be over this one by Welling.
30 plus years of following Charlton has conditioned me well for utter disappointment.
Both hurt about the same, I hate losing but being a Charlton supporter since the 70's I tend to expect failures on a regular basis. 1990 we were genuine contenders and that semi final was a game that only happens a few times in a lifetime, an absolute classic between two teams that ebbed and flowed. Last night showed the hype for what it was, hype. We were found wanting apart from the first half and it was largely forgettable. I don't think we would or could have been any match for the French this weekend but I think if we can improve with this squad. But that said I'm a football supporter I always hope against hope.
Wasn't alive for 90 but not sure this year feels any worse than 98 or 2006. I know this was a semi-final loss rather than a quarter final, but so few of us entered the tournament with any real expectation so we have just been able to enjoy the ride. The fact it wasn't lost on penalties probably helped too.
I echo what others have said though, this will sting as we will never have as easy a run to reach a World Cup final. That may be what haunts us.
The two tournaments that always stick in the mind because we performed pretty well and gave ourselves a chance were 90 and 96.
What you will note from those tournaments is that we had manager's that really brought everyone together, played great football and made a nation hopeful for the future. Robson and Venables were never given the opportunity for whatever reason to continue their great work. It had been confirmed prior to those tournaments that they would not remain in their posts once they were finished.
Gareth Southgate, a man that the nation has formed great respect and admiration for will be allowed to continue his great work for many years to come. That has to be a plus.
I have seen a few comments saying 90 felt worst but for some reason I feel this one more.
In 90 I was only 19, so had fewer tournament disappointments behind me, we had reached the QF the previous tourny,it seemed that QF/SF territory was the norm and only cheating Argies,penalties, or Peter Shilton could prevent us from winning the trophy soon, we saw the emergence of Gazza and Platt. We had a right go in the Semi and 'only' lost on penalties to the Germans.
In 2018 had no real expectations, had easy group, had dream path to the final, had countries falling over themselves to clear the way for us to get to the there, had another 28 years of failure tantalizingly close to being erased. Apart from first 35 mins this was an awful performance. We didnt play. We had no plan B. Make no mistake, this tournament was there for the taking. We blew it. I have no confidence this group can kick on and improve that much - this was their time, their chance and they couldnt take it and it hurts.
Maybe in weeks to come, I will feel different, but at the moment this hurts more to me
Agree with mostly everything here. Will correct you on a few things.
1. You can only beat what's in front of you.
2. I believe we can take an absolute shed loaf of positives out of this world cup and we can and will build upon it.
I wouldn't have said that last night though as emotions were running high.
We just wasn't good enough and we lost to the better side on the day. That is the reality. We should look at it...take it seriously, learn about why it went wrong and then move on. There is still a future
I hope people are more emotionally invested in the national side now. When the dust dies down on this and we have our international breaks for the euro 2020 qualifiers....I think that I for one, will at least be more up for it.
The two tournaments that always stick in the mind because we performed pretty well and gave ourselves a chance were 90 and 96.
What you will note from those tournaments is that we had manager's that really brought everyone together, played great football and made a nation hopeful for the future. Robson and Venables were never given the opportunity for whatever reason to continue their great work. It had been confirmed prior to those tournaments that they would not remain in their posts once they were finished.
Gareth Southgate, a man that the nation has formed great respect and admiration for will be allowed to continue his great work for many years to come. That has to be a plus.
Yes, this does especially remind of Venables in 96 who really built a great team spirit in the 2/3 years he had in charge, but was cut short. Now we have the chance to build on this
1990. Last night was disappointing, but it didn't feel like the bottom dropped out of my world as it did in 1990 and indeed 1996. I think some of it is because I feel quite positive about the future and feel that we can do much better but I think it's also because we didn't lose on penalties, and to Germany. Penalty shoot-outs bring out the drama more I think and when Germany is involved there always seems to be more of an edge to it all. At least, it did back then, it's been a while since we were knocked out by the Germans.
Probably 1990, I think because I was 18 at the time and it was my first tournament of proper drinking etc. Again probably because of my age but I was more excited than this time so the down was worse for me.
(Well, actually for me 1970 was the worst, I know it was the Q/F but we were 2-0 up with 25 mins to play and seemingly in complete control.) 1990 hurt more than last night for me. We grew in stature in 90 after a shaky start, and I remember it as much more dramatic. I was gutted we lost last night, as I felt we could have finished them off before half time, but in the end we couldn’t manage it. But they have played with pride and resilience, and considerable skill at times, so no complaints from me.
I allowed myself stupidly to believe the media hype something, as a long suffering Charlton fan inured to disappointment and dashed hopes, I should have known better than to do.
I really thought in 1990 we had sufficient quality in the squad to go all the way.
This time I had little or no expectation. I thought we'd probably scrape through the group and then lose the first knock out match.
Anything better than that was a bonus in my eyes and the bonus came in.
Croatia deserve some credit for their resilience and nous. Our lads have hopefully learned now just how tough tournament football is and will come back stronger for the next one.
1990, for the reasons above, plus the fact that I was the only Englishman aboard a boat in the middle of the Caribbean, surrounded by Germans, during that semi-final.
I felt last night was a bigger let down as we had a proper chance, in 1990 we were underdogs and had a real go and deserved to beat W Germany. Last night we just slipped away, from halftime onwards we weren't really at it.
1990. I was young and silly and didn't know any better than to believe we could win it.
Now that I'm old and miserable and the witness to many England football disappointments, I was just waiting for the 2018 wheels to come off. I wish I could have enjoyed it more, but once bitten and all that.
I was 10 in 1990 and whilst I remember being upset, I probably didnt have the raw understanding I had this time of knowing it was probably the best chance we will ever get.
I'll tell you what this does do - make me appreciate Wembley 1998 even more. Whatever happens, I can say that I have had my 'magical football day' and thats something some people may never get.
1990. (and 96) This team over-performed. By a lot. They played as a team and tried to play good football. Undone by a hungrier, more experienced and worldly side in Croatia, but there's no shame in that. First England team I've actually liked in a long while - not padded out with manager's favourites and big names who can't cut it anymore. Looking forward to see them develop (blimey that wasn't a phrase I was expecting to say). Can even forgive Southgate's Nigel links. Don't buy this "easiest run to the final ever" either. You need to test yourselves against good teams in order to progress. It doesn't matter if you go out earlier if it's to a better team (obviously it DOES matter, but you can only beat what's in front of you). And eventually you find yourself against a team who ARE better so you apply what you've learned. Remember when Millwall had that run to the FA Cup final and never got to play a team higher than them, and were smashed by Man Utd? Football is about being competitive and you want to face the best in order to get better yourself.
The two tournaments that always stick in the mind because we performed pretty well and gave ourselves a chance were 90 and 96.
What you will note from those tournaments is that we had manager's that really brought everyone together, played great football and made a nation hopeful for the future. Robson and Venables were never given the opportunity for whatever reason to continue their great work. It had been confirmed prior to those tournaments that they would not remain in their posts once they were finished.
Gareth Southgate, a man that the nation has formed great respect and admiration for will be allowed to continue his great work for many years to come. That has to be a plus.
A little rose tinted, we didn't play consistent good football in Italia '90 until the semi and also in '96 we were poor against Switzerland, average against Scotland bar a piece of magic from Gazza and a bit of luck when the ball moved just before the very reliable hit his pen. As for the Dutch thrashing, they were all over us in the first half. To be honest Robson was fortunate to lead us to Italia '90 after failing to qualify for Euro '84, an uninspiring start to Mexico '86 and the disaster that was Euro '88. It was the end of an era and a lot of players that had been with him over that time were at the end of their international career. In retrospect it does seem odd to get rid of your manager after he got you so close to a final but 8 years in international management is more than enough as Joachim Low has proved, football is evolving all the time and the best coaches need to be involved in day to day top club football as much as possible.
Comments
Unrealistic expectation really began with the Sven/Beckham and so called Golden Generation era from 2001-2010.
Last night hurt a lot and I really thought we'd make the final but wasn't 100% sure we'd win it, unlike in 1990.
It's a bit like regularly hammering a nail through the old fella. Do it often enough and it'll eventually stop hurting......probably*
* I am in no way admitting to nor advocating a bit of carpentry on one's self.
And for the only reason that I hate seeing my kids cry!
I'll be over this one by Welling.
30 plus years of following Charlton has conditioned me well for utter disappointment.
1990 we were genuine contenders and that semi final was a game that only happens a few times in a lifetime, an absolute classic between two teams that ebbed and flowed. Last night showed the hype for what it was, hype. We were found wanting apart from the first half and it was largely forgettable. I don't think we would or could have been any match for the French this weekend but I think if we can improve with this squad. But that said I'm a football supporter I always hope against hope.
I echo what others have said though, this will sting as we will never have as easy a run to reach a World Cup final. That may be what haunts us.
What you will note from those tournaments is that we had manager's that really brought everyone together, played great football and made a nation hopeful for the future.
Robson and Venables were never given the opportunity for whatever reason to continue their great work. It had been confirmed prior to those tournaments that they would not remain in their posts once they were finished.
Gareth Southgate, a man that the nation has formed great respect and admiration for will be allowed to continue his great work for many years to come. That has to be a plus.
1. You can only beat what's in front of you.
2. I believe we can take an absolute shed loaf of positives out of this world cup and we can and will build upon it.
I wouldn't have said that last night though as emotions were running high.
We just wasn't good enough and we lost to the better side on the day. That is the reality. We should look at it...take it seriously, learn about why it went wrong and then move on. There is still a future
I hope people are more emotionally invested in the national side now. When the dust dies down on this and we have our international breaks for the euro 2020 qualifiers....I think that I for one, will at least be more up for it.
1990 hurt more than last night for me. We grew in stature in 90 after a shaky start, and I remember it as much more dramatic.
I was gutted we lost last night, as I felt we could have finished them off before half time, but in the end we couldn’t manage it. But they have played with pride and resilience, and considerable skill at times, so no complaints from me.
I allowed myself stupidly to believe the media hype something, as a long suffering Charlton fan inured to disappointment and dashed hopes, I should have known better than to do.
I really thought in 1990 we had sufficient quality in the squad to go all the way.
This time I had little or no expectation. I thought we'd probably scrape through the group and then lose the first knock out match.
Anything better than that was a bonus in my eyes and the bonus came in.
Croatia deserve some credit for their resilience and nous. Our lads have hopefully learned now just how tough tournament football is and will come back stronger for the next one.
This hurt, but seeing the team over-perform, Southgate being a gent and then knowing that it's coming home in 2022 made it all ok.
The current team is a work in progress. What they've achieved has been beyond our expectations.
And in 1990 we were playing Germany.
Now that I'm old and miserable and the witness to many England football disappointments, I was just waiting for the 2018 wheels to come off. I wish I could have enjoyed it more, but once bitten and all that.
I'll tell you what this does do - make me appreciate Wembley 1998 even more. Whatever happens, I can say that I have had my 'magical football day' and thats something some people may never get.
First England team I've actually liked in a long while - not padded out with manager's favourites and big names who can't cut it anymore. Looking forward to see them develop (blimey that wasn't a phrase I was expecting to say). Can even forgive Southgate's Nigel links.
Don't buy this "easiest run to the final ever" either. You need to test yourselves against good teams in order to progress. It doesn't matter if you go out earlier if it's to a better team (obviously it DOES matter, but you can only beat what's in front of you). And eventually you find yourself against a team who ARE better so you apply what you've learned. Remember when Millwall had that run to the FA Cup final and never got to play a team higher than them, and were smashed by Man Utd? Football is about being competitive and you want to face the best in order to get better yourself.
To be honest Robson was fortunate to lead us to Italia '90 after failing to qualify for Euro '84, an uninspiring start to Mexico '86 and the disaster that was Euro '88. It was the end of an era and a lot of players that had been with him over that time were at the end of their international career. In retrospect it does seem odd to get rid of your manager after he got you so close to a final but 8 years in international management is more than enough as Joachim Low has proved, football is evolving all the time and the best coaches need to be involved in day to day top club football as much as possible.