"Pilfered" Artifacts

limeygent

I was reading an article this morning about the British museum, and how the beard of "The Sphinx" has just been sitting, unseen, in the basement there for years. The museum also holds the "Parthenon Marbles", and many other artifacts that the original "owners" have requested to be returned. It seems to me that the best place for these precious and priceless objects is back where they came from, in this day and age when we can enjoy these things from afar, and don't need to go to a museum to see them. Wondered if this might ever happen, and how others feel about this issue.

ShootersHillGuru

limeygent said:

I was reading an article this morning about the British museum, and how the beard of "The Sphinx" has just been sitting, unseen, in the basement there for years. The museum also holds the "Parthenon Marbles", and many other artifacts that the original "owners" have requested to be returned. It seems to me that the best place for these precious and priceless objects is back where they came from, in this day and age when we can enjoy these things from afar, and don't need to go to a museum to see them. Wondered if this might ever happen, and how others feel about this issue.

Totally agree that where artefacts have been effectively taken that they should be returned. Happened mostly I suppose in Victorian times but we should now be looking to return items like The Elgin Marbles to Greece.

Addickted

Agreed.

Give us our colony back,

rina

it's only fragments of the beard in the british museum and there are some in egypt too. and it's not even original, it was retrofitted

limeygent

rina said:

it's only fragments of the beard in the british museum and there are some in egypt too. and it's not even original, it was retrofitted

Didn't know that, but Egypt has apparently requested their return, so they should be returned.

se9addick

Keep them for now and then sell them back to their rightful owners once the economy has collapsed after Brexit, will keep us going for a while.

limeygent

I guess if everything were given back The British Museum would be half-empty.

N01R4M

limeygent said:

I guess if everything were given back The British Museum would be half-empty.

...as would be many American museums, art galleries and private collections if they followed the same practice!

ShootersHillGuru

Copies of original that no ordinary visitor could distinguish from the real thing could be exhibited while the genuine items were returned to where they belong.

charltonkeston

No, finders keepers.
Besides people come from all over the world to view what was once their. We will need this tourism to increase somewhat to supplement the tax coffers once we’ve walked away from our main market place.

iainment

It wasn't finders keepers though was it.
It was invaders stealers.
It is a conundrum that will take ages to resolve. I think there's no reason not to return the stuff really.

nth_london_addick

We stole them fair and square

Chizz

The UK isn't the only country that has "acquired" important and historical artefacts from overseas. The French, Spanish and Portuguese have all taken "ownership" of precious items of significance. In many cases, the possessions are not looked after and suffer serious decline.

The worst case, of course, is the dreadful condition into which one foreign "possession" has fallen whilst in the care of a Belgian arsehole.

PopIcon

ShootersHillGuru said:

Copies of original that no ordinary visitor could distinguish from the real thing could be exhibited while the genuine items were returned to where they belong.

Who wants to look at copies?

Should Australlia and the Americas be returned to the indigenous people too?

cafcfan

I'm still waiting for the Danegeld to be returned.

SE7toSG3

During the late 70's and 80's I used to buy a fair few military medals with my pocket money, mainly on a market on London Bridge station on my way to the Valley, I was also given dozens of medals, trench maps, diaries and general militaria by veterans whose 'familes didnt care' or families when the vets died who 'didnt want it cluttering their lofts'. These days I take 100s of people each year to the battlefields who dont know what happened to medals etc but would do anything to get them back. I have twice now reunited items with the family where they belong (free I should add).

I guess what I am trying to say is that whilst the Elgin Marbles do belong in Egypt we should be clear that the British Museum have done as much to preserve them as theybdid pilfer...there were centuries in between where the country of their origin couldnt give a shit.

ShootersHillGuru

PopIcon said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

Copies of original that no ordinary visitor could distinguish from the real thing could be exhibited while the genuine items were returned to where they belong.

Who wants to look at copies?

Should Australlia and the Americas be returned to the indigenous people too?

The archaeopteryx on display at The Natural History Museum is a cast that to the eye is indistinguishable from the original in Berlin. The large Skeleton that welcomes you to the Natural History Museum and attracts so much attention is a cast of the original. I could go on.

I agree the original is better but the original should be kept in the place it originated from unless exceptional circumstances prevent that.

We are talking about artefacts not countries.

blackpool72

The biggest theft in my lifetime is Charlton being stolen by a Belgium fuckwit.
Return it now you piece of shite.

charltonkeston

Chizz said:

The UK isn't the only country that has "acquired" important and historical artefacts from overseas. The French, Spanish and Portuguese have all taken "ownership" of precious items of significance. In many cases, the possessions are not looked after and suffer serious decline.

The worst case, of course, is the dreadful condition into which one foreign "possession" has fallen whilst in the care of a Belgian arsehole.

On a serious note another Belgium arsehole, ( Leopold II I think),had possession of the Congo. He screwed over a huge chunk of Africa, we might of gotten off lightly in comparison.

letthegoodtimesroll

nth london addick said:

We stole them fair and square

But, TBF, it was their slaves that built these things and kidnapping people from foreign lands and paying people to whip em every now and then probably cost them a lot of gold which they had to go to the trouble of invading, killing and stealing from other lands so perhaps they may have a valid claim for having them back from us, or not...

Chizz

charltonkeston said:

Chizz said:

The UK isn't the only country that has "acquired" important and historical artefacts from overseas. The French, Spanish and Portuguese have all taken "ownership" of precious items of significance. In many cases, the possessions are not looked after and suffer serious decline.

The worst case, of course, is the dreadful condition into which one foreign "possession" has fallen whilst in the care of a Belgian arsehole.

On a serious note another Belgium arsehole, ( Leopold II I think),had possession of the Congo. He screwed over a huge chunk of Africa, we might of gotten off lightly in comparison.

The bars, restaurants and streets of Kigali and Gisenyi were packed with people cheering Belgium in in the World Cup. SE7 hasn't quite taken to its Belgian overlords in the same way.

limeygent

N01R4M said:

limeygent said:

I guess if everything were given back The British Museum would be half-empty.

...as would be many American museums, art galleries and private collections if they followed the same practice!

Wouldn't argue with that.

RedArmySE7

We’re just a nation of thieves really.

Addickted

To be fair, we've had some brilliant thieves whose love of exploration, challenge, thirst for knowledge, bravery, along with a bit of plunder on the way, has answered many of life's questions.

Henry Irving

The museum will not be returning this artefact

Henry Irving

Or these

SoundAsa£

Think The British Museum are of the opinion that giving up some item or items would open up the flood gates.

nth_london_addick

We should return nothing if they want it come and nick it back

Alwaysneil

iainment said:

It wasn't finders keepers though was it.
It was invaders stealers.
It is a conundrum that will take ages to resolve. I think there's no reason not to return the stuff really.

The only reason to not return it is if they will trash it. Probably wouldn’t be sending artefacts back to Syria right now for instance.

SporadicAddick

The British Museum has preserved much that would otherwise have perished, and they have the knowledge, skills and capability to maintain them, in a venue that the whole world can access..

DRAddick

Whilst I agree the Elgin marbles should be returned, they were not stolen. That's just a lazy myth that suits certain persons arguments. We were allowed to purchase them, for a vast sum, from the Ottoman Empire who were the rulers at that time as a thank you for us helping them fight off Napoleon's invasion.