No mate. I defo rate him. Cant see why we cant work it out with him. He's the type of player to get fed up, leave and get picked up by a champs team who will end up getting promoted into the prem and he will star and we’ll all be shaking out heads.
He's been worked on in recent seasons by several managers/coaches and given every chance. Any other club watching him will see his strengths and weaknesses. If he is good enough for a higher level offers would have been made by now.
We are better with Morgan in the team. The Irish kid on loan is no better than Alby. Our current bunch of loan players (excluding RS) are simply blocking our younger players development.
We are better with Morgan in the team. The Irish kid on loan is no better than Alby. Our current bunch of loan players (excluding RS) are simply blocking our younger players development.
Morgan has had enough chances, he's not a youngster any more. Kilkenny wasn't great today but let's not rush to judgement yet. He will be in the pool of players we will be fishing in this summer so let's see if he's any good or not.
Little surprise that a busy and industrious Morgan made us a better team last night. Our dip in form has coincided with him being on the bench. I appreciate he is not everybody's cup of Campari but he is well liked in the squad - Fraser and Dobson enjoy playing with him and despite obvious frustration he is still improving.
I would extend his contract for another year. Best passer we have just needs to fit into a position that suits his attributes. He in theory could become a lidle version of a Barry bannan. Worst thing to happen to him for certain fans is that he was given the number 10 shirt.
Yeah his shooting is piss poor. I don't understand why he has not improved. He can pass with precision but as soon as a net and posts are involved he balloons it.
Little surprise that a busy and industrious Morgan made us a better team last night. Our dip in form has coincided with him being on the bench. I appreciate he is not everybody's cup of Campari but he is well liked in the squad - Fraser and Dobson enjoy playing with him and despite obvious frustration he is still improving.
That midfield three is better balanced when it is him, Dobson, and Fraser. Kilkenny has certainly not proved to be an upgrade on Morgan.
I know some have had their fill of him, and that's their prerogative, but personally I think he is still improving bit by bit, albeit not rapidly, and I still see potential for him to improve further. He's still young enough to get better.
My assessment of him is still much the same as it was in the summer. Should he be a regular starter in a promotion chasing team? Probably not. Can he make a positive contribution as a squad player in a promotion chasing team? I believe he can.
Little surprise that a busy and industrious Morgan made us a better team last night. Our dip in form has coincided with him being on the bench. I appreciate he is not everybody's cup of Campari but he is well liked in the squad - Fraser and Dobson enjoy playing with him and despite obvious frustration he is still improving.
Dip in form also coincided with Fraser playing with an injury and then missing some games. Both made a big difference compared to Kilkenny and Payne. Dobson Morgan Fraser has been our best midfield 3 all season but I’m still not sure if Morgan is good enough if we want to push up the league next season, he’s too inconsistent
Little surprise that a busy and industrious Morgan made us a better team last night. Our dip in form has coincided with him being on the bench. I appreciate he is not everybody's cup of Campari but he is well liked in the squad - Fraser and Dobson enjoy playing with him and despite obvious frustration he is still improving.
That midfield three is better balanced when it is him, Dobson, and Fraser. Kilkenny has certainly not proved to be an upgrade on Morgan.
I know some have had their fill of him, and that's their prerogative, but personally I think he is still improving bit by bit, albeit not rapidly, and I still see potential for him to improve further. He's still young enough to get better.
My assessment of him is still much the same as it was in the summer. Should he be a regular starter in a promotion chasing team? Probably not. Can he make a positive contribution as a squad player in a promotion chasing team? I believe he can.
It's definitely the best combination within our squad. I don't like the Dobson, Fraser, Payne combination either, as Fraser ends up doing too much of the ugly stuff.
Kilkenny has shown that while it's easy to say we need someone better than Morgan, actually recruiting that person has proved quite difficult for us. As shown by the fact we have TWO midfielders out on loan, in Gilbey and McGrandles, both I imagine on better money than Morgan.
I’ve never been a huge Morgan fan but he is playing very well at the moment. I still don’t think he is good enough to be starting in a promotion winning midfield, but he is probably good enough to be 1st or 2nd reserve. He’s still young and improving so I would say it’s worth giving him a new contract if Holden wants to keep him. His energy suits Holdens style and unlike most of our players he seems to stay injury-free
I know progress has been slow for him, but he’s a player who is still improving, in my opinion. People want more consistent end product from him, well… 9 goal involvements (3 goals, 6 assists) in 28 league appearances compares well with Fraser’s 11 from 35 (albeit Fraser has more goals and less assists).
He suffered badly under Bowyer who meant well but spent too long focusing on fixing Albie’s weaknesses and not enough time on maximizing his strengths. That period seemed to wreck his confidence and for a while I don’t think he really new what type of midfielder he was supposed to be anymore. Then Adkins went to the other extreme and tried to make him an out and out number 10 I think further screwing with his development. That disruption to his development came at a really key time for Albie too and set him back at least a year, imo.
Garner did and, particularly, Holden is using him in a better defined role, as Curbs pointed out on CharltonTV yesterday, and it is suiting Albie much better. To me I see some of the same signs I saw in Karlan Grant, even before he went on loan to Crawley, of a young player finding their niche and refinding their confidence. I’d definitely give him a new deal.
Whatever happens though, talk he is only good enough for league two is just disrespectful and unnecessarily dismissive of a player that has always put in good effort and clearly wants to play for this club. I don’t know what more people really expect of a young player than to be committed to the team, to work at developing their game and to affect the matches they’re involved in, all of which Albie has been doing this season.
Morgan actually has a decent set of attributes to be a decent midfielder, helped by finding a role in the team which works for him. He works hard, has great fitness and rarely gets injured. He has an eye for a pass, and his shooting is improving. He just needs consistency.
Indeed when you compare him with Dobson and Fraser, Dobson is a brilliant workhorse, but limited in an attacking role, while Fraser the most attacking midfielder, although he does work for the team, is slower and less fit than Morgan.
Whether you keep the likes of Morgan must surely depend upon whether you are adamant on getting in better replacements. If you're determined to get better then perhaps he should not get a further offer. I reckon he'll get an offer.
He looks great at the moment but he's had so many false dawns. How do we know this isn't just another one?
I think this is a bit of a myth. He burst onto the scene in 18/19 when he was allowed to play with a bit of freedom in a good side brimming with confidence. His next season was in the championship where he played too many matches and was asked to change his game to be more defensive at a young age in a team that was really struggling and for a manager who was too quick to criticize publicly. He never really rediscovered himself under Bowyer other than glimpses of his passing range but he was clearly trying to do the things Bowyer was asking and his work rate and fitness did improve. Then there was the No. 10 experiment which was just a mistake and seemed to shatter any remaining confidence he had and he generally struggled for a year or so after that. However, he has been slowly working his way back since Adkins left and particularly seems to have gained some traction this season.
I don’t think it’s really a case of false dawns so much as a bright start was followed by a trough, not entirely of his own making, which he has taken a long time to climb out of. Closest we’ve seen to a “false dawn” was the way he started this season well then dipped a bit, but it’s hardly as if his form went off a cliff and it wasn’t just him that this happened to either.
Personally, I see the early signs it’s all finally starting to click. Not guaranteed he’ll kick on from here but he’s in the best place he’s been since he first started appearing for the first team. I think it’d be a shame to have persevered this long and ditch him now just as he’s improving again. I think he should get another year with an extension clause in the club’s favour. If he hasn’t really kicked on by this time next year then that’ll be the time to part ways.
Is he really worse than someone like Ben Reeves who played plenty of matches for us in teams that made the playoffs? I don’t think so and believe he has a role to play and can make a worthwhile contribution, as part of a balanced squad, to a top 6 challenging team.
He looks great at the moment but he's had so many false dawns. How do we know this isn't just another one?
I think this is a bit of a myth. He burst onto the scene in 18/19 when he was allowed to play with a bit of freedom in a good side brimming with confidence. His next season was in the championship where he played too many matches and was asked to change his game to be more defensive at a young age in a team that was really struggling and for a manager who was too quick to criticize publicly. He never really rediscovered himself under Bowyer other than glimpses of his passing range but he was clearly trying to do the things Bowyer was asking and his work rate and fitness did improve. Then there was the No. 10 experiment which was just a mistake and seemed to shatter any remaining confidence he had and he generally struggled for a year or so after that. However, he has been slowly working his way back since Adkins left and particularly seems to have gained some traction this season.
I don’t think it’s really a case of false dawns so much as a bright start was followed by a trough, not entirely of his own making, which he has taken a long time to climb out of. Closest we’ve seen to a “false dawn” was the way he started this season well then dipped a bit, but it’s hardly as if his form went off a cliff and it wasn’t just him that this happened to either.
Personally, I see the early signs it’s all finally starting to click. Not guaranteed he’ll kick on from here but he’s in the best place he’s been since he first started appearing for the first team. I think it’d be a shame to have persevered this long and ditch him now just as he’s improving again. I think he should get another year with an extension clause in the club’s favour. If he hasn’t really kicked on by this time next year then that’ll be the time to part ways.
Is he really worse than someone like Ben Reeves who played plenty of matches for us in teams that made the playoffs? I don’t think so and believe he has a role to play and can make a worthwhile contribution, as part of a balanced squad, to a top 6 challenging team.
Bowyer was very tough on him, but I think it was needed. One of Morgan’s best assets now is his work rate and pressing which is probably a big part of why Holden might want to keep him. Before that he was just a good passer of the ball, he needed more to his game. Just needs to keep scoring more goals and then he will be really good player
He looks great at the moment but he's had so many false dawns. How do we know this isn't just another one?
I think this is a bit of a myth. He burst onto the scene in 18/19 when he was allowed to play with a bit of freedom in a good side brimming with confidence. His next season was in the championship where he played too many matches and was asked to change his game to be more defensive at a young age in a team that was really struggling and for a manager who was too quick to criticize publicly. He never really rediscovered himself under Bowyer other than glimpses of his passing range but he was clearly trying to do the things Bowyer was asking and his work rate and fitness did improve. Then there was the No. 10 experiment which was just a mistake and seemed to shatter any remaining confidence he had and he generally struggled for a year or so after that. However, he has been slowly working his way back since Adkins left and particularly seems to have gained some traction this season.
I don’t think it’s really a case of false dawns so much as a bright start was followed by a trough, not entirely of his own making, which he has taken a long time to climb out of. Closest we’ve seen to a “false dawn” was the way he started this season well then dipped a bit, but it’s hardly as if his form went off a cliff and it wasn’t just him that this happened to either.
Personally, I see the early signs it’s all finally starting to click. Not guaranteed he’ll kick on from here but he’s in the best place he’s been since he first started appearing for the first team. I think it’d be a shame to have persevered this long and ditch him now just as he’s improving again. I think he should get another year with an extension clause in the club’s favour. If he hasn’t really kicked on by this time next year then that’ll be the time to part ways.
Is he really worse than someone like Ben Reeves who played plenty of matches for us in teams that made the playoffs? I don’t think so and believe he has a role to play and can make a worthwhile contribution, as part of a balanced squad, to a top 6 challenging team.
Bowyer was very tough on him, but I think it was needed. One of Morgan’s best assets now is his work rate and pressing which is probably a big part of why Holden might want to keep him. Before that he was just a good passer of the ball, he needed more to his game. Just needs to keep scoring more goals and then he will be really good player
I agree Bowyer was definitely trying to help Morgan and was well intentioned, it just crossed a line publicly a few times but Bowyer didn’t do that with just Morgan. And Morgan’s drop off isn’t all on Bowyer either. Injuries, players leaving, lack of budget, the ESI fiasco all meant Morgan got overused at a tender stage in his development and got shunted around the midfield and was in and out the side a lot. It is what it is, but I think it’s something that needs to be kept in mind when people say he should be further along in his development at this age. I think that argument would hold more water if his development had been better managed at that key time when he was, what, 19 to 21? He was a little bit robbed of the most important years.
He looks great at the moment but he's had so many false dawns. How do we know this isn't just another one?
I think this is a bit of a myth. He burst onto the scene in 18/19 when he was allowed to play with a bit of freedom in a good side brimming with confidence. His next season was in the championship where he played too many matches and was asked to change his game to be more defensive at a young age in a team that was really struggling and for a manager who was too quick to criticize publicly. He never really rediscovered himself under Bowyer other than glimpses of his passing range but he was clearly trying to do the things Bowyer was asking and his work rate and fitness did improve. Then there was the No. 10 experiment which was just a mistake and seemed to shatter any remaining confidence he had and he generally struggled for a year or so after that. However, he has been slowly working his way back since Adkins left and particularly seems to have gained some traction this season.
I don’t think it’s really a case of false dawns so much as a bright start was followed by a trough, not entirely of his own making, which he has taken a long time to climb out of. Closest we’ve seen to a “false dawn” was the way he started this season well then dipped a bit, but it’s hardly as if his form went off a cliff and it wasn’t just him that this happened to either.
Personally, I see the early signs it’s all finally starting to click. Not guaranteed he’ll kick on from here but he’s in the best place he’s been since he first started appearing for the first team. I think it’d be a shame to have persevered this long and ditch him now just as he’s improving again. I think he should get another year with an extension clause in the club’s favour. If he hasn’t really kicked on by this time next year then that’ll be the time to part ways.
Is he really worse than someone like Ben Reeves who played plenty of matches for us in teams that made the playoffs? I don’t think so and believe he has a role to play and can make a worthwhile contribution, as part of a balanced squad, to a top 6 challenging team.
Bowyer was very tough on him, but I think it was needed. One of Morgan’s best assets now is his work rate and pressing which is probably a big part of why Holden might want to keep him. Before that he was just a good passer of the ball, he needed more to his game. Just needs to keep scoring more goals and then he will be really good player
I agree Bowyer was definitely trying to help Morgan and was well intentioned, it just crossed a line publicly a few times but Bowyer didn’t do that with just Morgan. And Morgan’s drop off isn’t all on Bowyer either. Injuries, players leaving, lack of budget, the ESI fiasco all meant Morgan got overused at a tender stage in his development and got shunted around the midfield and was in and out the side a lot. It is what it is, but I think it’s something that needs to be kept in mind when people say he should be further along in his development at this age. I think that argument would hold more water if his development had been better managed at that key time when he was, what, 19 to 21? He was a little bit robbed of the most important years.
I think there's a good argument that Morgan needs the right manager and that possibly Holden is that manager. Bowyer was right to push him out of his comfort zone but didn't really know when to stop pushing, Garner was perhaps too focused on the technical aspects.
Holden's style of mixing carrot and stick seems to suit Morgan well. It won't work out for every player of course but that's a separate issue.
Comments
Albie Morgan or Phil Foden.
That midfield three is better balanced when it is him, Dobson, and Fraser. Kilkenny has certainly not proved to be an upgrade on Morgan.
I know some have had their fill of him, and that's their prerogative, but personally I think he is still improving bit by bit, albeit not rapidly, and I still see potential for him to improve further. He's still young enough to get better.
My assessment of him is still much the same as it was in the summer. Should he be a regular starter in a promotion chasing team? Probably not. Can he make a positive contribution as a squad player in a promotion chasing team? I believe he can.
Kilkenny has shown that while it's easy to say we need someone better than Morgan, actually recruiting that person has proved quite difficult for us. As shown by the fact we have TWO midfielders out on loan, in Gilbey and McGrandles, both I imagine on better money than Morgan.
JFC, McGrandles, Payne, Kilkenny have all played at some point, but the above 3 has worked best as they complement each other well.
He suffered badly under Bowyer who meant well but spent too long focusing on fixing Albie’s weaknesses and not enough time on maximizing his strengths. That period seemed to wreck his confidence and for a while I don’t think he really new what type of midfielder he was supposed to be anymore. Then Adkins went to the other extreme and tried to make him an out and out number 10 I think further screwing with his development. That disruption to his development came at a really key time for Albie too and set him back at least a year, imo.
Whatever happens though, talk he is only good enough for league two is just disrespectful and unnecessarily dismissive of a player that has always put in good effort and clearly wants to play for this club. I don’t know what more people really expect of a young player than to be committed to the team, to work at developing their game and to affect the matches they’re involved in, all of which Albie has been doing this season.
Indeed when you compare him with Dobson and Fraser, Dobson is a brilliant workhorse, but limited in an attacking role, while Fraser the most attacking midfielder, although he does work for the team, is slower and less fit than Morgan.
I reckon he'll get an offer.
Is he really worse than someone like Ben Reeves who played plenty of matches for us in teams that made the playoffs? I don’t think so and believe he has a role to play and can make a worthwhile contribution, as part of a balanced squad, to a top 6 challenging team.
Him, Dobbo and Fraser are fine in the squad. We need one or two improvements for the first 11.
Holden's style of mixing carrot and stick seems to suit Morgan well. It won't work out for every player of course but that's a separate issue.