Wow - enjoyed Snarky Puppy, but how do they make a living?! ;-)
They're great! Three Grammys, in 2014, 2016 and 2017. They're so so good.
In terms of how they make a living - well, it was described to me that for years they made quite a bit of money, but then the expenses were just a bit higher, so they were underwritten by their record companies and deals for a while. Many of the musicians lived on a relatively small wage. However, it's definitely worth pointing out that almost all of them play in multiple projects (Cory Henry has the Funk Apostles; Bill Laurance his own trio etc; Sput Searight with Kendrink Lamar; so on), so Snarky wasn't their only thing going on.
When they took off, the expenses remained similar to beforehand, but income shot up astronomically, which meant more freedom in projects, better recording studios and sessions etc. (I've been told how much it cost to make Family Dinner 2 and in jazz terms it's quite a lot of money, which I was politely asked not to share [it's at least six figures though].)
But yeah, even then not much of it goes back to the artists. Many of them survive by live performances; workshops and sessions; and a few even teach. If you're at the top like Snarky Puppy's guys then it's mainly touring and recording with two or three projects. If you're one of the sessionists for Snarky, then constant touring with a multitude of projects and maybe some teaching is how you survive.
If you're like my mates who graduated from Trinity a couple of years ago, then you do function gigs and anything else that pays, as much as you can. Johnny Woodham - who is the trumpeter in the first link I shared and a good mate of mine - plays/played in a £200 a night (per person) restaurant gig with me which literally was his saving grace for a few months, despite also having so many sick projects going on at the same time. He's on the relative upper end for his "echelon" of musician. Otherwise, weddings etc will get you anywhere from £150-£250 usually, or more if it's really swanky/you're quite good.
You teach on the side, too - a pianist friend of mine has about 20 students a week charging between £30-£40 per hour I think, and for him that's a really good living, and his gigging is more original stuff that doesn't pay as well.
So in terms of surviving - it's doable. I could probably do it myself, but my job security is strong enough and I earn enough that as much as I want to do it, I don't think I can take the risk.
I have very eclectic musical tastes ( blues, R & B, prog, metal, prog metal, 80s / 90s electronic stuff, punk, new wave, indie - big fan of the Beatles / Stones / Rush, Led Zepp, Purple, Jerhro Tull, the Jam & the Smiths in particulars ) got into Jazz last year - really love the bebop stuff in particular and listened to lots of Charlie Parker, Dizzy Gillespie & Miles Davis in particular - favourite record so far is the Quintet (Roach / Gillespie / Parker / Mingus / Powel) at Massey Hall.
Spent a hugely enjoyable ten days in New York in August and the hotel we stayed in was straight across from Birdland - so had a very enjoyable evening watching the resident big band - moving in the direction of bebop with most of the solos so I was very happy ( last gig I went to before that was Mastadon at the Brixton Academy, somquite a change of pace )
Trouble is that I like some of the very early stuff, hard bop, big band and a little of the later Miles Davis ( Bitches Brew for example ) but I have no idea where to go next, or of contemporary stuff worth a listen - cool does nothing for me and jazz funk I loathe!
Any suggestions?
Whew, where to go next - I'm really not sure! Late Coltrane sounds like a potential shout, though I presume you've explored much of his canon... Free jazz is worth looking into. Not to my own tastes, but definitely understand why it's a gut punch for a lot of jazz fans. Maybe post-bop? So Wayne Shorter's Speak No Evil, McCoy Tyner's The Real McCoy, and Herbie Hancock's Maiden Voyage being the main examples.
Have you listened to much fusion either?
Gonna take a gamble here, but based on your rock tastes, you might find Snarky Puppy interesting. I really like them, and they're VERY diverse, so it's likely not all of their stuff will be to your tastes, especially on the Family Dinner collaborations where they feature a different singer every song.
I love Jazz. It's probably about 70% of what i listen to. Used to hate it. I am a bit partial to Spiritual Jazz - Pharoah Sanders, Alice Coltrane, Sonny Rollins. If i am to be entirely honest a bit of the reason i'm into jazz is it allows me to tell people i am into jazz. I think that's kind of where my love for it began and that function is still there but I am a cat that really does dig it.
As a (very) humble composer who uses the language of Jazz in order to make readable sense of sometimes disparaging ideas i'm very thankful to the idiom. However, composers like Bach Ravel Debussy, Wagner, Shostakovich Scriabin and many others, sit very comfortably for me with Monk, Strayhorn, Powell, Fagen, Jobim Bowie Paul Simon etc'. So like Paddy said: 'it's about attitude'. Personally I make it a project of mine to always go back to a style I thought I hated in the past, and not leave it alone until I find what makes it tick. I use it as an antidote for grumpiness ageing.
I love Jazz. It's probably about 70% of what i listen to. Used to hate it. I am a bit partial to Spiritual Jazz - Pharoah Sanders, Alice Coltrane, Sonny Rollins. If i am to be entirely honest a bit of the reason i'm into jazz is it allows me to tell people i am into jazz. I think that's kind of where my love for it began and that function is still there but I am a cat that really does dig it.
I've seen Pharoah Sanders three times. Love Pharoah. Also did get to see Sun Ra at Ronnies. Seen the Arkestra a few times and they're always great, but I did get to see Sun Ra and his Arkestra. Saw Art Blakey twice, Elvin Jones just the once, Flora Purim and Airto twice. In terms of other vocal jazz, I've seen Mark Murphy and Dianne Reeves.
Wow - enjoyed Snarky Puppy, but how do they make a living?! ;-)
They're great! Three Grammys, in 2014, 2016 and 2017. They're so so good.
In terms of how they make a living - well, it was described to me that for years they made quite a bit of money, but then the expenses were just a bit higher, so they were underwritten by their record companies and deals for a while. Many of the musicians lived on a relatively small wage. However, it's definitely worth pointing out that almost all of them play in multiple projects (Cory Henry has the Funk Apostles; Bill Laurance his own trio etc; Sput Searight with Kendrink Lamar; so on), so Snarky wasn't their only thing going on.
When they took off, the expenses remained similar to beforehand, but income shot up astronomically, which meant more freedom in projects, better recording studios and sessions etc. (I've been told how much it cost to make Family Dinner 2 and in jazz terms it's quite a lot of money, which I was politely asked not to share [it's at least six figures though].)
But yeah, even then not much of it goes back to the artists. Many of them survive by live performances; workshops and sessions; and a few even teach. If you're at the top like Snarky Puppy's guys then it's mainly touring and recording with two or three projects. If you're one of the sessionists for Snarky, then constant touring with a multitude of projects and maybe some teaching is how you survive.
If you're like my mates who graduated from Trinity a couple of years ago, then you do function gigs and anything else that pays, as much as you can. Johnny Woodham - who is the trumpeter in the first link I shared and a good mate of mine - plays/played in a £200 a night (per person) restaurant gig with me which literally was his saving grace for a few months, despite also having so many sick projects going on at the same time. He's on the relative upper end for his "echelon" of musician. Otherwise, weddings etc will get you anywhere from £150-£250 usually, or more if it's really swanky/you're quite good.
You teach on the side, too - a pianist friend of mine has about 20 students a week charging between £30-£40 per hour I think, and for him that's a really good living, and his gigging is more original stuff that doesn't pay as well.
So in terms of surviving - it's doable. I could probably do it myself, but my job security is strong enough and I earn enough that as much as I want to do it, I don't think I can take the risk.
Thanks Paddy - lots of useful information there. Not many people can make a living out of playing music they like - it must be soul-destroying having to play in a function band to pay the mortgage.
A big school of thought is that "jazz" is more the approach to the music, rather than the music itself. Jazz is such a diverse genre that takes in so many influences relatively indiscriminately, and this is a nicely considered musical cover of a really good Jobim standard.
Santana may not be what one thinks of when the word jazz is bandied about, but the reinvention and improvisation here is definition "jazzing" up the music, much as Jelly Roll Morton discussed how he "jazzed" Verdi's Miserere (there's a full quote attributed to him in Giddins and Deveaux, Jazz and elsewhere).
Some of you might like Bobby Hutcherson. Try 'Same Shame' from the album Total Eclipse... could open a new door for you!
Just given it a listen - excellent vibraphone playing! Not an instrument I can listen to overly much of but this version of Ginza Samba, by the Stan Getz-Cal Tjader Sextet, is really good, in large parts due to the Billy Higgins and Scott LaFaro interplay on drums and bass respectively:
Oh and I may as well mention the excellent Eddie Duran (guitar) and Vince Guaraldi (piano) for completion's sake. All these guys were awesome musicians in their own right and it's well worth exploring who played with who else - that's the way jazz has always worked.
Scott LaFaro was a key part of (in my opinion) the greatest piano trio ever to have existed with Bill Evans and Paul Motian; Stan Getz of course smashed it on Getz/Gilberto that brought bossa nova into the mainstream; Billy Higgins was HUGE on the free jazz/post bop scene with cats like Ornette Coleman and Don Cherry.
^^^^^ glad you liked it .. indulge me by listening to a steaming live version of another track from the brilliant 'Caravanserai' album .. Samba de Sausalito
Some of you might like Bobby Hutcherson. Try 'Same Shame' from the album Total Eclipse... could open a new door for you!
Just given it a listen - excellent vibraphone playing! Not an instrument I can listen to overly much of but this version of Ginza Samba, by the Stan Getz-Cal Tjader Sextet, is really good, in large parts due to the Billy Higgins and Scott LaFaro interplay on drums and bass respectively:
Oh and I may as well mention the excellent Eddie Duran (guitar) and Vince Guaraldi (piano) for completion's sake. All these guys were awesome musicians in their own right and it's well worth exploring who played with who else - that's the way jazz has always worked.
Scott LaFaro was a key part of (in my opinion) the greatest piano trio ever to have existed with Bill Evans and Paul Motian; Stan Getz of course smashed it on Getz/Gilberto that brought bossa nova into the mainstream; Billy Higgins was HUGE on the free jazz/post bop scene with cats like Ornette Coleman and Don Cherry.
Some of you might like Bobby Hutcherson. Try 'Same Shame' from the album Total Eclipse... could open a new door for you!
Just given it a listen - excellent vibraphone playing! Not an instrument I can listen to overly much of but this version of Ginza Samba, by the Stan Getz-Cal Tjader Sextet, is really good, in large parts due to the Billy Higgins and Scott LaFaro interplay on drums and bass respectively:
a onetime friend who later became a professional session and backing band pianist in the states, was a vibraphone freak, said he'd never mastered the art which was more difficult than the piano, who was I to argue with that opinion ?. Gary Burton was of one the main men for vibes at that time .. my friend used to almost salivate while watching him perform (we saw him twice at R Scott's). Must admit Gary is/was a bit of a hot ticket with the mallets. The late Milt Jackson is 'rated' as THE man , best ever on the vibes. I never got to see him
I've seen Roy Ayres a few times. Often vibraphonists play with two mallets in each hand.
Vince Guaraldi, of course, composed The Peanuts cartoon themes, which featured Mike Clark from Herbie Hancock's band, as well as The Headhunters spin-off band, on drums.
I've tried to make friends with jazz over the years but never quite managed it - usually find it a bit too self indulgent and drawn out for my taste buds. There are some exceptions though and I do quite enjoy some of the interpretations from the likes of Maceo Parker & Lucky Chops:
I've tried to make friends with jazz over the years but never quite managed it - usually find it a bit too self indulgent and drawn out for my taste buds. There are some exceptions though and I do quite enjoy some of the interpretations from the likes of Maceo Parker & Lucky Chops:
Love Maceo Parker, although would put him down as funk rather than jazz.
First saw him about 25 years ago as part of the JB’s with Fred Wesley, Bobby Bird, Pee Wee Ellis, Vicky Anderson etc. Seen him several times since and always puts on a great show.
Jazz encompasses so many elements. I like old fashioned ragtime, boogie woogie and a bit of trad. I really enjoy swing and quite enjoy cool jazz. Freeform jazz, jazz funk I can leave well alone. Here's one that makes my feet tap:
Lincs, Caravanserai is my fave all time album, probably was the start of my move into Jazz - which then even encompassed the likes of Steely Dan and George Michael to a certain degree.But Caravanserai was a monstrous album - still play it all the time now, as i-m sure you do.
Saw Darius Brubeck quartet at Ronnie Scott's on Sunday. Excellent and good to see people in their 20's enjoying it. A lot of jazz requires a bit of effort from the listener and I think that runs counter to current trends. Always a relief to see young people who look beyond the mainstream.
Comments
I love some of the sub genres especially this guy J G Thirwell.
In terms of how they make a living - well, it was described to me that for years they made quite a bit of money, but then the expenses were just a bit higher, so they were underwritten by their record companies and deals for a while. Many of the musicians lived on a relatively small wage. However, it's definitely worth pointing out that almost all of them play in multiple projects (Cory Henry has the Funk Apostles; Bill Laurance his own trio etc; Sput Searight with Kendrink Lamar; so on), so Snarky wasn't their only thing going on.
When they took off, the expenses remained similar to beforehand, but income shot up astronomically, which meant more freedom in projects, better recording studios and sessions etc. (I've been told how much it cost to make Family Dinner 2 and in jazz terms it's quite a lot of money, which I was politely asked not to share [it's at least six figures though].)
But yeah, even then not much of it goes back to the artists. Many of them survive by live performances; workshops and sessions; and a few even teach. If you're at the top like Snarky Puppy's guys then it's mainly touring and recording with two or three projects. If you're one of the sessionists for Snarky, then constant touring with a multitude of projects and maybe some teaching is how you survive.
If you're like my mates who graduated from Trinity a couple of years ago, then you do function gigs and anything else that pays, as much as you can. Johnny Woodham - who is the trumpeter in the first link I shared and a good mate of mine - plays/played in a £200 a night (per person) restaurant gig with me which literally was his saving grace for a few months, despite also having so many sick projects going on at the same time. He's on the relative upper end for his "echelon" of musician. Otherwise, weddings etc will get you anywhere from £150-£250 usually, or more if it's really swanky/you're quite good.
You teach on the side, too - a pianist friend of mine has about 20 students a week charging between £30-£40 per hour I think, and for him that's a really good living, and his gigging is more original stuff that doesn't pay as well.
So in terms of surviving - it's doable. I could probably do it myself, but my job security is strong enough and I earn enough that as much as I want to do it, I don't think I can take the risk.
I hear so many Jazz & Blues influences in other music although It’s quite a bewildering array of music in its own right if you are new to it!
Alice Coltrane: Journey in Satchidananda
https://youtube.com/watch?v=shZo3G__YhQ
Pharoah Sanders: Village of the Pharoahs
https://youtube.com/watch?v=aWCAOzXvk3M
However, composers like Bach Ravel Debussy, Wagner, Shostakovich Scriabin and many others, sit very comfortably for me with Monk, Strayhorn, Powell, Fagen, Jobim Bowie Paul Simon etc'.
So like Paddy said: 'it's about attitude'.
Personally I make it a project of mine to always go back to a style I thought I hated in the past, and not leave it alone until I find what makes it tick.
I use it as an antidote for grumpiness ageing.
Pharoah:
Strasbourg St Denis is total quality.
A big school of thought is that "jazz" is more the approach to the music, rather than the music itself. Jazz is such a diverse genre that takes in so many influences relatively indiscriminately, and this is a nicely considered musical cover of a really good Jobim standard.
Santana may not be what one thinks of when the word jazz is bandied about, but the reinvention and improvisation here is definition "jazzing" up the music, much as Jelly Roll Morton discussed how he "jazzed" Verdi's Miserere (there's a full quote attributed to him in Giddins and Deveaux, Jazz and elsewhere).
Oh and I may as well mention the excellent Eddie Duran (guitar) and Vince Guaraldi (piano) for completion's sake. All these guys were awesome musicians in their own right and it's well worth exploring who played with who else - that's the way jazz has always worked.
Scott LaFaro was a key part of (in my opinion) the greatest piano trio ever to have existed with Bill Evans and Paul Motian; Stan Getz of course smashed it on Getz/Gilberto that brought bossa nova into the mainstream; Billy Higgins was HUGE on the free jazz/post bop scene with cats like Ornette Coleman and Don Cherry.
Vince Guaraldi, of course, composed The Peanuts cartoon themes, which featured Mike Clark from Herbie Hancock's band, as well as The Headhunters spin-off band, on drums.
First saw him about 25 years ago as part of the JB’s with Fred Wesley, Bobby Bird, Pee Wee Ellis, Vicky Anderson etc. Seen him several times since and always puts on a great show.
Caravanserai is my fave all time album, probably was the start of my move into Jazz - which then even encompassed the likes of Steely Dan and George Michael to a certain degree.But Caravanserai was a monstrous album - still play it all the time now, as i-m sure you do.
Thank you, Paddy et al.