My only comment is how bloody lovely for those people getting money back that was rightfully theirs. I’m sure it’s going to make a lot of lives a little easier.
what I would like to know is when the back dated payments are made will those receiving them the have their benefits reduced because they will have "savings" in their bank account that takes them over the threshold allowed?
Tens of thousands of people on sickness benefits will receive backdated payments averaging £5,000 following government errors. The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) has revealed it is paying more than £1.5bn owing to the mistakes.
The staggering incompetence of the current government continues unabated. This story throws up three interesting questions, in my view.
1. Who will pay the (political) price for this error, which has cost some of the most vulnerable members of society hundreds of millions of pounds? 2. Why will 75,000 of the victims of this error - which dates back to 2011 - have to wait until the year 2019/20 to receive the back payments they are owed? 3. Will an additional £1.5bn sloshing about in the economy - in the hands of those typically least likely to stash cash away in savings - have a material, profound and false improvement on the economy?
You blame this government, can you confirm this error was created by this government?
The saddest thing about this is that some of the most in need people in our country have been left lacking the funding they need to get by.
The second saddest thing about this is that the dirtiest, most dishonest benefit fraudsters of this country will reap even more funds from a system that is ridiculously easy to cheat and will only end up with us being forced to pay more in taxes.
Some people are experts in how to play the systerm at all levels of society.
Bankers and those with high levels of inhrited wealth are the fraudsters premier league though. The guy down the road who pretends his bad back is worse than it is really is just Sunday league by comparison.
Was just speaking to a friend of a friend in the civil service about this and this is what they had to say (paraphrasing) -
Those affected have been underpaid when moved from incapacity benefit to ESA - this is a change that happened ten years ago. So @Chizz this simply is not a failing of the current government, as much as I dislike them.
Equally I doubt it's even a failing of either the Lab or Coalition government. It's not on those in government and ministry who have set policy, but it's on government bodies who have zero ability to effectively deliver anything, which ultimately also reflects quite badly on the ops and logistics parts of the civil service/DWP.
This is a big, big fuckup, but not really something any one group - with the possible exception of those in operational/delivery parts of the civil service - can be blamed for.
Your friend is wrong.
ESA was introduced in October 2008. But the issues were created when the DWP began reassessing people on incapacity benefits (e.g. Incapacity Benefit and Severe Disablement Allowance) for eligibility for ESA in March 2011. Errors relating to the amounts paid first came to light in 2013. So the Coalition set up the process to assess some people to move to ESA; and the Coalition was still in power when the first issues came to light.
This isn't an issue on which the Tories will be able to pass the buck to a previous government. But, worse than the mistake (because mistakes always happen) is the disgraceful length of time it's taken first to work out a fix (five years) and second to make amends (several more years).
So this person, who I am NOT going to categorically state works for the DWP (cough), is wrong?
I've asked again and got a reply -
It reads like you're suggesting that the coalition came in and decided to change a policy that had already been around for a few years, so they could deliberately start paying people less.
The policy and rollout plan started in 2008. The timing for said rollout was set in 2008. While this started in 2011, that was after years of planning beforehand (not that this really matters given it's apolitical). This was initially a minor mistake by low-level civil servants - by poorly-paid staff who have nothing to do with politics, but will remain in their role regardless of who is in power - that has ballooned into a massive mistake.
To actually quote the person I'm talking to - "It's like this guy genuinely believes they designed a policy, but didn't even think about how they would roll it out until three years later, and that they gave it one day's thought and started the next day."
----------------
You might be right about the timeframes, but even so, this is WAY more complicated than leaving the buck with the Conservatives (as much as I would like to!).
Do you know how many people work for the DWP? About half of them. (That's a joke, by the way. And I only crow-barred it in to make it clear that I am not seeking out an argument or pointing the finger, merely setting out why it's clearly and obviously the Conservative party (and to a lesser extent, the LibDems) who carry responsibility for this mess).
Here are a few facts.
Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) was introduced in October 2008 for people who have limited capability to work because they are disabled or ill. From March 2011 the Department began reassessing people on incapacity benefits (e.g. Incapacity Benefit and Severe Disablement Allowance) for eligibility for ESA.
To repeat, in March 2011, the year *after* Cameron came in to office, the DWP began reassessing people for eligibility for ESA.
Largely between January 2011 and October 2014 some people receiving Incapacity Benefit and Severe Disablement Allowance had their claims converted to contributory ESA. However, the possibility of whether they may also have been entitled to income-related ESA was not considered for all cases. This means they may have missed out on the payment of premiums, such as the Enhanced Disability Premium.
So, the mistakes took place between January 2011 and October 2014. While David Cameron was Prime Minister. And while Iain Duncan Smith was Secretary of State. The mistakes were made while they were in charge. It's their responsibility.
The Department became aware of some individual errors on cases in 2013 and processes were changed in 2014 to prevent future errors. In 2016, analysis of Fraud and Error National Statistics highlighted the scale of the potential error on historical conversions. The Department carried out a sampling exercise on 1,000 cases in the second half of 2017 to help inform the checking process and initial estimates of numbers affected and amounts owed. The Department then began work to assess cases in December 2017.
The "awareness" was while David Cameron was Prime Minister and Iain Duncan Smith was Secretary of State.
I don't have an issue with the policy - I don't know enough about it. I don't care who came up with it, who signed it off and who claimed it as an initiative. What I have an issue with is first, the fact that people owed money have not been paid; second, the money is owed to vulnerable people, in greatest need; third, the repayments are taking an enormous and unjustifiable length of time; and fourth, the people in charge at the time - Cameron and Irritable Duncan Syndrome - will not face any sanction for their woeful oversight of a failing department.
(For the sake of transparency, the bits in italics are from a document published today, by the DWP).
Was just speaking to a friend of a friend in the civil service about this and this is what they had to say (paraphrasing) -
Those affected have been underpaid when moved from incapacity benefit to ESA - this is a change that happened ten years ago. So @Chizz this simply is not a failing of the current government, as much as I dislike them.
Equally I doubt it's even a failing of either the Lab or Coalition government. It's not on those in government and ministry who have set policy, but it's on government bodies who have zero ability to effectively deliver anything, which ultimately also reflects quite badly on the ops and logistics parts of the civil service/DWP.
This is a big, big fuckup, but not really something any one group - with the possible exception of those in operational/delivery parts of the civil service - can be blamed for.
Your friend is wrong.
ESA was introduced in October 2008. But the issues were created when the DWP began reassessing people on incapacity benefits (e.g. Incapacity Benefit and Severe Disablement Allowance) for eligibility for ESA in March 2011. Errors relating to the amounts paid first came to light in 2013. So the Coalition set up the process to assess some people to move to ESA; and the Coalition was still in power when the first issues came to light.
This isn't an issue on which the Tories will be able to pass the buck to a previous government. But, worse than the mistake (because mistakes always happen) is the disgraceful length of time it's taken first to work out a fix (five years) and second to make amends (several more years).
So this person, who I am NOT going to categorically state works for the DWP (cough), is wrong?
I've asked again and got a reply -
It reads like you're suggesting that the coalition came in and decided to change a policy that had already been around for a few years, so they could deliberately start paying people less.
The policy and rollout plan started in 2008. The timing for said rollout was set in 2008. While this started in 2011, that was after years of planning beforehand (not that this really matters given it's apolitical). This was initially a minor mistake by low-level civil servants - by poorly-paid staff who have nothing to do with politics, but will remain in their role regardless of who is in power - that has ballooned into a massive mistake.
To actually quote the person I'm talking to - "It's like this guy genuinely believes they designed a policy, but didn't even think about how they would roll it out until three years later, and that they gave it one day's thought and started the next day."
----------------
You might be right about the timeframes, but even so, this is WAY more complicated than leaving the buck with the Conservatives (as much as I would like to!).
Sorry that can't be true, it doesn't fit the anti Tory agenda on here...
Tens of thousands of people on sickness benefits will receive backdated payments averaging £5,000 following government errors. The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) has revealed it is paying more than £1.5bn owing to the mistakes.
The staggering incompetence of the current government continues unabated. This story throws up three interesting questions, in my view.
1. Who will pay the (political) price for this error, which has cost some of the most vulnerable members of society hundreds of millions of pounds? 2. Why will 75,000 of the victims of this error - which dates back to 2011 - have to wait until the year 2019/20 to receive the back payments they are owed? 3. Will an additional £1.5bn sloshing about in the economy - in the hands of those typically least likely to stash cash away in savings - have a material, profound and false improvement on the economy?
You blame this government, can you confirm this error was created by this government?
The saddest thing about this is that some of the most in need people in our country have been left lacking the funding they need to get by.
The second saddest thing about this is that the dirtiest, most dishonest benefit fraudsters of this country will reap even more funds from a system that is ridiculously easy to cheat and will only end up with us being forced to pay more in taxes.
Some people are experts in how to play the systerm at all levels of society.
Bankers and those with high levels of inhrited wealth are the fraudsters premier league though. The guy down the road who pretends his bad back is worse than it is really is just Sunday league by comparison.
Was just speaking to a friend of a friend in the civil service about this and this is what they had to say (paraphrasing) -
Those affected have been underpaid when moved from incapacity benefit to ESA - this is a change that happened ten years ago. So @Chizz this simply is not a failing of the current government, as much as I dislike them.
Equally I doubt it's even a failing of either the Lab or Coalition government. It's not on those in government and ministry who have set policy, but it's on government bodies who have zero ability to effectively deliver anything, which ultimately also reflects quite badly on the ops and logistics parts of the civil service/DWP.
This is a big, big fuckup, but not really something any one group - with the possible exception of those in operational/delivery parts of the civil service - can be blamed for.
Your friend is wrong.
ESA was introduced in October 2008. But the issues were created when the DWP began reassessing people on incapacity benefits (e.g. Incapacity Benefit and Severe Disablement Allowance) for eligibility for ESA in March 2011. Errors relating to the amounts paid first came to light in 2013. So the Coalition set up the process to assess some people to move to ESA; and the Coalition was still in power when the first issues came to light.
This isn't an issue on which the Tories will be able to pass the buck to a previous government. But, worse than the mistake (because mistakes always happen) is the disgraceful length of time it's taken first to work out a fix (five years) and second to make amends (several more years).
So this person, who I am NOT going to categorically state works for the DWP (cough), is wrong?
I've asked again and got a reply -
It reads like you're suggesting that the coalition came in and decided to change a policy that had already been around for a few years, so they could deliberately start paying people less.
The policy and rollout plan started in 2008. The timing for said rollout was set in 2008. While this started in 2011, that was after years of planning beforehand (not that this really matters given it's apolitical). This was initially a minor mistake by low-level civil servants - by poorly-paid staff who have nothing to do with politics, but will remain in their role regardless of who is in power - that has ballooned into a massive mistake.
To actually quote the person I'm talking to - "It's like this guy genuinely believes they designed a policy, but didn't even think about how they would roll it out until three years later, and that they gave it one day's thought and started the next day."
----------------
You might be right about the timeframes, but even so, this is WAY more complicated than leaving the buck with the Conservatives (as much as I would like to!).
Sorry that can't be true, it doesn't fit the anti Tory agenda on here...
Agreed - but I'd still like to state for the record that I hate the Tories!
But I'd rather be justified in what I attack them on, and when it's not their fault it's only right to point it out.
Chizz said "And I only crow-barred it in to make it clear that I am not seeking out an argument or pointing the finger, merely setting out why it's clearly and obviously the Conservative party (and to a lesser extent, the LibDems) who carry responsibility for this mess). " So not pointing the finger at the Conservative party (and to a lesser extent the LibDems) then?
I was led to believe it was £16k, the one and only time I ever tried to claim when I was on deaths door. But I had a lot lot less than that in the bank at that time and was actually told "from the horse's mouth" I was only entitled to have the interest paid on the mortgage and also that my NI would be paid (or excused). So in protest, I didn't bother going through with the claim and took a gamble that I would get better before my small amount of dough that I did have in the bank ran out. It didn't pay off
..... one of the Slovak gypsys up my street can't have had any dough in the bank because he qualified for a brand new mobility car and as much money he could spend on his kids mobile phones and shopping etc.
Chizz said "And I only crow-barred it in to make it clear that I am not seeking out an argument or pointing the finger, merely setting out why it's clearly and obviously the Conservative party (and to a lesser extent, the LibDems) who carry responsibility for this mess). " So not pointing the finger at the Conservative party (and to a lesser extent the LibDems) then?
I get ya.
I am not pointing the finger at @PaddyP17 or his friend the civil servant who may or may not work for the DWP. I am absolutely pointing the finger at Iain Duncan Smith, David Cameron and the Conservative-led coalition. Very happy to make that clear.
Savings above £6,000 mean that you lose some of your income related ESA on a pro-rata basis IIRC, and savings above £16,000 mean you're not eligible at all, but you may be eligible for contributory ESA/new style ESA if you've paid enough NI contributions in the last couple of years.
..... one of the Slovak gypsys up my street can't have had any dough in the bank because he qualified for a brand new mobility car and as much money he could spend on his kids mobile phones and shopping etc.
Tens of thousands of people on sickness benefits will receive backdated payments averaging £5,000 following government errors. The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) has revealed it is paying more than £1.5bn owing to the mistakes.
The staggering incompetence of the current government continues unabated. This story throws up three interesting questions, in my view.
1. Who will pay the (political) price for this error, which has cost some of the most vulnerable members of society hundreds of millions of pounds? 2. Why will 75,000 of the victims of this error - which dates back to 2011 - have to wait until the year 2019/20 to receive the back payments they are owed? 3. Will an additional £1.5bn sloshing about in the economy - in the hands of those typically least likely to stash cash away in savings - have a material, profound and false improvement on the economy?
You blame this government, can you confirm this error was created by this government?
The saddest thing about this is that some of the most in need people in our country have been left lacking the funding they need to get by.
The second saddest thing about this is that the dirtiest, most dishonest benefit fraudsters of this country will reap even more funds from a system that is ridiculously easy to cheat and will only end up with us being forced to pay more in taxes.
Some people are experts in how to play the systerm at all levels of society.
Bankers and those with high levels of inhrited wealth are the fraudsters premier league though. The guy down the road who pretends his bad back is worse than it is really is just Sunday league by comparison.
..... one of the Slovak gypsys up my street can't have had any dough in the bank because he qualified for a brand new mobility car and as much money he could spend on his kids mobile phones and shopping etc.
Your street in France?
Funny you should mention France. During the time I was incapacitated for the 5 weeks after my kidney (even though the rest time should be a lot longer), I qualified for €75 every 2 weeks, posted to me in the form of a cheque. This amount was calculated from the amount I had paid into the French system (not in tax as that didnt count) during the previous 3 years of me living here. I weren't given food voucher or any thing else
O/K Chizz we get it, You hate the Tories. You love the lefties and your self-righteousness knows no bounds.
It is a bit difficult to ignore their hand in all of this when it was a major plank in their manifesto to reduce ‘the burden’ of claimants on the British taxpayers.
If they had put as much effort and money into sorting out the Black economy the whole country would be better off.
O/K Chizz we get it, You hate the Tories. You love the lefties and your self-righteousness knows no bounds.
It is a bit difficult to ignore their hand in all of this when it was a major plank in their manifesto to reduce ‘the burden’ of claimants on the British taxpayers.
If they had put as much effort and money into sorting out the Black economy the whole country would be better off.
It happened on their watch even if the policy was under a different government and planning started before them. But take the earlier point that planning for it probably started earlier.
The black economy is a whole other topic, no government has got to grips with and probably never will as it’s almost entirely in the hands of the public who in the main feed it.
Comments
Here are a few facts.
Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) was introduced in October 2008 for people who have limited capability to work because they are disabled or ill. From March 2011 the Department began reassessing people on incapacity benefits (e.g. Incapacity Benefit and Severe Disablement Allowance) for eligibility for ESA.
To repeat, in March 2011, the year *after* Cameron came in to office, the DWP began reassessing people for eligibility for ESA.
Largely between January 2011 and October 2014 some people receiving Incapacity Benefit and Severe Disablement Allowance had their claims converted to contributory ESA. However, the possibility of whether they may also have been entitled to income-related ESA was not considered for all cases. This means they may have missed out on the payment of premiums, such as the Enhanced Disability Premium.
So, the mistakes took place between January 2011 and October 2014. While David Cameron was Prime Minister. And while Iain Duncan Smith was Secretary of State. The mistakes were made while they were in charge. It's their responsibility.
The Department became aware of some individual errors on cases in 2013 and processes were changed in 2014 to prevent future errors. In 2016, analysis of Fraud and Error National Statistics highlighted the scale of the potential error on historical conversions. The Department carried out a sampling exercise on 1,000 cases in the second half of 2017 to help inform the checking process and initial estimates of numbers affected and amounts owed. The Department then began work to assess cases in December 2017.
The "awareness" was while David Cameron was Prime Minister and Iain Duncan Smith was Secretary of State.
I don't have an issue with the policy - I don't know enough about it. I don't care who came up with it, who signed it off and who claimed it as an initiative. What I have an issue with is first, the fact that people owed money have not been paid; second, the money is owed to vulnerable people, in greatest need; third, the repayments are taking an enormous and unjustifiable length of time; and fourth, the people in charge at the time - Cameron and Irritable Duncan Syndrome - will not face any sanction for their woeful oversight of a failing department.
(For the sake of transparency, the bits in italics are from a document published today, by the DWP).
He'll sort it!
But I'd rather be justified in what I attack them on, and when it's not their fault it's only right to point it out.
So not pointing the finger at the Conservative party (and to a lesser extent the LibDems) then?
I get ya.
Shouldn't have happened, but it did and it's been sorted now,
I am looking forward to their report on University fees due out in December.
It is a bit difficult to ignore their hand in all of this when it was a major plank in their manifesto to reduce ‘the burden’ of claimants on the British taxpayers.
If they had put as much effort and money into sorting out the Black economy the whole country would be better off.
The black economy is a whole other topic, no government has got to grips with and probably never will as it’s almost entirely in the hands of the public who in the main feed it.