Stupid question and hope its not disrespectful as I have a lot of genuine respect and interest in the Great War, yet are you allowed to walk across what would have been No Mans Land (If you know where it was) or is a lot of it private farm / dangerous land now because of the unexploded material there.
My family has always been fortunate in the respect that only one relative has been killed in the two Wars when my Great Uncle was killed in a plane accident (bad weather rather than enemy fire did the damage) on the South Downs as he was transported to France.
About a year ago whilst researching the family tree I came across an Uncle of my Nan who was killed on the 1st day of the Somme at Gommecourt (one of the Diversion attacks that worked until the men had to retreat due to a lack of support), his body was never found so is on the Thiepval Memorial yet to my knowledge is the only person in my family to be killed by the "enemy".
Ever since finding out about William (Yup its where I got the name from for my Son) I've wanted to go see him not just at Thiepval yet where he fell at Gommecourt too hence my initial question
Jumping the gun a bit I suppose but should another CL trip get off the ground then I for one would certainly go. In fact now I’m retired I would be willing to help organise in any way I could help.
Stupid question and hope its not disrespectful as I have a lot of genuine respect and interest in the Great War, yet are you allowed to walk across what would have been No Mans Land (If you know where it was) or is a lot of it private farm / dangerous land now because of the unexploded material there.
My family has always been fortunate in the respect that only one relative has been killed in the two Wars when my Great Uncle was killed in a plane accident (bad weather rather than enemy fire did the damage) on the South Downs as he was transported to France.
About a year ago whilst researching the family tree I came across an Uncle of my Nan who was killed on the 1st day of the Somme at Gommecourt (one of the Diversion attacks that worked until the men had to retreat due to a lack of support), his body was never found so is on the Thiepval Memorial yet to my knowledge is the only person in my family to be killed by the "enemy".
Ever since finding out about William (Yup its where I got the name from for my Son) I've wanted to go see him not just at Thiepval yet where he fell at Gommecourt too hence my initial question
Dependant on which Battalion he was with (feel free to PM details or post here), your walk should be as follows:
56th London Division, Start in Hebuterne, (London soldiers knew as 'about turn') on the main square, this was the Divisional rear area where the men lived/slept when out the line, there are nice descriptions in a book called "Johnny Get Your Gun' by Tucker, take the road passing the Sports Cafe, (very friendly owner, good place for a beer), this was Yankee Street on the Trench Maps, the well you pass on the right was in use at the time and written about.
As you leave the village the road twists and became sunken, this is where the forward Brigade HQ was for the attack, the disturbed nature of the bangs reveal dugouts from time to time.
You are now close to Gommecourt No2 Cemetery, from the back wall or cross of sacrifice there are great views of the battlefield itself, notable features from right to left are Copse 125 (attacked by the London Scottish), site of Nameless Farm and the Village Cemetery (still there), attacked by the Queens Westminster Rifles, Gommecourt Village, attacked by the Queen Victoria Rifles and Gommecourt Wood, attacked by the London Rifle Brigade.
The final objective and linking up point with the North Midlands Division was around 300mtres further on from the civioian village cemetery in the field and known as the Quadralataral was reached on 1st July, sadly when the 46th Division attack failed in its entirety, more Londoners were lost coming back than going forward.
I and the guides working for me have linesman thats quite useful, its a PDA with GPS linked trench maps, very useful.
Sorry for the Grapvine length Great War post but hope it helps,
with regards to walking the fields, if you dont damage crops and dont pick up ordnance you are fine and not breaking any laws.
Stupid question and hope its not disrespectful as I have a lot of genuine respect and interest in the Great War, yet are you allowed to walk across what would have been No Mans Land (If you know where it was) or is a lot of it private farm / dangerous land now because of the unexploded material there.
My family has always been fortunate in the respect that only one relative has been killed in the two Wars when my Great Uncle was killed in a plane accident (bad weather rather than enemy fire did the damage) on the South Downs as he was transported to France.
About a year ago whilst researching the family tree I came across an Uncle of my Nan who was killed on the 1st day of the Somme at Gommecourt (one of the Diversion attacks that worked until the men had to retreat due to a lack of support), his body was never found so is on the Thiepval Memorial yet to my knowledge is the only person in my family to be killed by the "enemy".
Ever since finding out about William (Yup its where I got the name from for my Son) I've wanted to go see him not just at Thiepval yet where he fell at Gommecourt too hence my initial question
Dependant on which Battalion he was with (feel free to PM details or post here), your walk should be as follows:
56th London Division, Start in Hebuterne, (London soldiers knew as 'about turn') on the main square, this was the Divisional rear area where the men lived/slept when out the line, there are nice descriptions in a book called "Johnny Get Your Gun' by Tucker, take the road passing the Sports Cafe, (very friendly owner, good place for a beer), this was Yankee Street on the Trench Maps, the well you pass on the right was in use at the time and written about.
As you leave the village the road twists and became sunken, this is where the forward Brigade HQ was for the attack, the disturbed nature of the bangs reveal dugouts from time to time.
You are now close to Gommecourt No2 Cemetery, from the back wall or cross of sacrifice there are great views of the battlefield itself, notable features from right to left are Copse 125 (attacked by the London Scottish), site of Nameless Farm and the Village Cemetery (still there), attacked by the Queens Westminster Rifles, Gommecourt Village, attacked by the Queen Victoria Rifles and Gommecourt Wood, attacked by the London Rifle Brigade.
The final objective and linking up point with the North Midlands Division was around 300mtres further on from the civioian village cemetery in the field and known as the Quadralataral was reached on 1st July, sadly when the 46th Division attack failed in its entirety, more Londoners were lost coming back than going forward.
I and the guides working for me have linesman thats quite useful, its a PDA with GPS linked trench maps, very useful.
Sorry for the Grapvine length Great War post but hope it helps,
with regards to walking the fields, if you dont damage crops and dont pick up ordnance you are fine and not breaking any laws.
Have a good trip!
Christ dont apologise for that length post that was unbelievably helpful thank you - Off the top of my head he was part of that London Rifle Brigade (the 5th?) so was part of the 56th Division I remember that much
Bit of a stretch maybe but Verdun is a fascinating place to visit, if not then definately Vimy Ridge or any of the number of 'sights' around the Somme.
Very interested in this and have yet to make it despite saying I will for about the last 15 years. Have you been? Did you drive? Is it a 2 or 3 day trip? Cheers
I would add that any trip to Ypres should include a visit to the German cemetery, Langemark, for the stark contrast to the way the German war dead were remembered after the war. A very poignant impact as you would expect.
Agree. Stark contrast to the CWGC sites and worth visiting.
Visited when I was teacher training and again since with my kids. First time we were there with two German lads, father and son who had come to see the great grandfathers grave, grandfather disappeared in Russia in 1943. Both were absolutely hammered. They told us that grandfather had never seen great grandfather, and that father never saw grandfather both having been killed when their sons were infants.
Much of the advice that I would give has already been mentioned by others. I would echo the suggestion about not just going to the bigger well known sites such as Vimy Ridge, Menin Gate etc but also some of the smaller more intimate sites and cemeteries. Take time to read the family inscriptions that are on many of the headstones: these can really make one realise the cost of war to the families concerned.
The other suggestion I would make would be, where possible, to ditch the car and walk for a bit. For the most part the war on the Western Front was fought on foot and walking gives one a much better appreciation on the battlefields and shows why some became such killings fields. A little research on the capabilities, such as range and rate of fire, of WW1 weapons will illuminate any such walk. At Thiepval, for instance, a very short stroll of a few hundred yards, from the Connaught Cemetery to Mill Road Cemetery will demonstrate how the 36th Division was caught in a crossfire right from the off on 1st July 1916 and makes one marvel at their achievements on that day. The French Serie Bleue 1:25000 maps and the Belgian 1:20000 maps, will show where all the walkable paths and cart tracks are. These are easily obtained from Stanford’s in London.
If you travel to Ypres can I suggest a brief visit to Pool of Peace, have a read up before you go, gives a real sense what these poor solders went through.
There is a great walk to have around here that takes in 5 cemeteries, including RE Farm Cemetery, where Nobby Nightingale rests, several of the Messines Ridge mine craters including Spanbroekmolen and great panoramic views of much of the Messines battlefield. It takes about two and a half hours. If anyone is interested pm me and I will send the details.
Bayeux British war cemetery - the epitaths on the graves had me in tears The Normandy American Cemetery (Colleville-sur-Mer). Featured in Saving Private Ryan. La Cambe German War Cemetery - absolutely stunning/awesome design
D-Day beaches, Arromanches (Mulberry towers)
and further down towards Brittany
Oradour-sur-Glane, 87520, France
Keep going... The Picos mountains are beautiful
Coming back Honfleur, Rouen, Amiens Nearby: Giverny, Chartres, Versailles
Visited Oradour Sur Glane a few weeks ago would strongly recommend visiting if your in the area.
Was a totally moving experience all day topped off by the Last post and the sound of the Epping Forest pipe band i was totally absorbed by the honour and respect the people of Ypres show
I found the names of two of my family members that my nan used to tell me about when we spoke about her family in WW1 and WW2
Herbert Oakman 19 yrs old 31-7-1917 Frederick George Oakman died 21yrs old 18-4-1915
going on the battlefield tours from one of the shops here tomorrow as i feel i need the guides to explain more than i have researched myself
if you aint done it , then i would really advise it
We stayed at the campsite, 15 min walk into the town centre which itself is well worth visiting, some decent bars there and there was a music festival on which was a bit of a bonus. Most of the battlefields/memorials etc are around 4-5 miles north east of the town....so having a car with you would be handy. Obviously if you visit the area a good book would be worth having....we just had the Lonely Planet France book which does the job as there is plenty of info when you get to the individual sights. Main places we visited were The Memorial de Verdun, Ossuaire de Douaumont and the Fort de Douaumont. We visited these in a single day though could have spent another day seeing some of the smaller sights. There is also a huge American memorial sight NW of Verdun (Romagne-sous-Montfaucon)....largest American war cemetery in Europe. The drive up to Verdun from Bar-Le-Duc is also well worth doing the road is the NVS (The Voie Sacree Nationale).
Important trip to take your kids on NLA. I went as a student when i was about 15 then returned a few years ago heading up a school trip myself as a teacher, was very moved as a youngster and think its equally/more important for this to be continued to be remembered today.
The ones I was most affected by most were Tyne Cot, the largest Commonwealth cemetery, the scale of the graves for the British there, really shook me when I was younger. Love the photo attached from my latest visit as a teacher. Another that had an effect on me was Langemark, which is a German cemetery and features a mass grave in the centre with 1000s of bodies as well as numerous graves with multiple occupants as the victors only gave the Germans a tiny section of land to bury their war dead. Always thought this was deeply unfair, they may have lost the war but those lads were dragged into the same situation just as ours were and deserved far more respect.
I’m sure there is an app which overlays the front lines etc over the current maps of the area. I think Clive had it on last years CL trip to Ypres. No idea if it costs very much but I’m sure someone, certainly Clive would know.
Its called Linesman2Go its around £200 preloaded I think and does include the Samsung tablet, the software is memory map, pretty useful for us so we got a few to hand to our guides when on tour.
Its only France & Belgium currently but we are trialling the Gallipoli version at the moment to see if it is accurate enough to sell commercially.
The company are called Great War Digital I think but am away from the offoce today
It‘s true that the big cemetaries give a sense of the vast waste of human life that war causes however, for me the moist poignant sites are the small ones. Here, where we now live on the Ile d‘Oléron, there are several Commonwealth War Graves. Most of them contain graves of victims of the RMT Lancastria disaster (http://www.lancastria.org.uk). The CWG cemetery in Le Chateau d‘Oléron contains just 1 grave!
It‘s true that the big cemetaries give a sense of the vast waste of human life that war causes however, for me the moist poignant sites are the small ones. Here, where we now live on the Ile d‘Oléron, there are several Commonwealth War Graves. Most of them contain graves of victims of the RMT Lancastria disaster (http://www.lancastria.org.uk). The CWG cemetery in Le Chateau d‘Oléron contains just 1 grave!
The most amazing part was finding the actual field where a great uncle was killed aged 19
The caves at Arras @DaveMehmet bang on the money I can’t belive just what they done there how this generation of men do what they did and maintain the strength and resolve to go through and up to the front line to face certain harm
So much more to do so much further to dig down through the family archives
And more for me and @SE7toSG3 to get our heads together on
Comments
https://www.abmc.gov/cemeteries-memorials/europe/luxembourg-american-cemetery#.W8rsdfZReUk
General Patton's grave is there too.
The German one is equally impressive in a different way and is just around the corner at Sandweiler.
Found oakmans and new on the grave thingy so will go find them whilst out there
http://www.leblockhaus.com/fr/
https://www.lacoupole-france.co.uk/history-centre.html
56th London Division, Start in Hebuterne, (London soldiers knew as 'about turn') on the main square, this was the Divisional rear area where the men lived/slept when out the line, there are nice descriptions in a book called "Johnny Get Your Gun' by Tucker, take the road passing the Sports Cafe, (very friendly owner, good place for a beer), this was Yankee Street on the Trench Maps, the well you pass on the right was in use at the time and written about.
As you leave the village the road twists and became sunken, this is where the forward Brigade HQ was for the attack, the disturbed nature of the bangs reveal dugouts from time to time.
You are now close to Gommecourt No2 Cemetery, from the back wall or cross of sacrifice there are great views of the battlefield itself, notable features from right to left are Copse 125 (attacked by the London Scottish), site of Nameless Farm and the Village Cemetery (still there), attacked by the Queens Westminster Rifles, Gommecourt Village, attacked by the Queen Victoria Rifles and Gommecourt Wood, attacked by the London Rifle Brigade.
The final objective and linking up point with the North Midlands Division was around 300mtres further on from the civioian village cemetery in the field and known as the Quadralataral was reached on 1st July, sadly when the 46th Division attack failed in its entirety, more Londoners were lost coming back than going forward.
I and the guides working for me have linesman thats quite useful, its a PDA with GPS linked trench maps, very useful.
Sorry for the Grapvine length Great War post but hope it helps,
with regards to walking the fields, if you dont damage crops and dont pick up ordnance you are fine and not breaking any laws.
Have a good trip!
The other suggestion I would make would be, where possible, to ditch the car and walk for a bit. For the most part the war on the Western Front was fought on foot and walking gives one a much better appreciation on the battlefields and shows why some became such killings fields. A little research on the capabilities, such as range and rate of fire, of WW1 weapons will illuminate any such walk. At Thiepval, for instance, a very short stroll of a few hundred yards, from the Connaught Cemetery to Mill Road Cemetery will demonstrate how the 36th Division was caught in a crossfire right from the off on 1st July 1916 and makes one marvel at their achievements on that day. The French Serie Bleue 1:25000 maps and the Belgian 1:20000 maps, will show where all the walkable paths and cart tracks are. These are easily obtained from Stanford’s in London.
I found the names of two of my family members that my nan used to tell me about when we spoke about her family in WW1 and WW2
Herbert Oakman 19 yrs old 31-7-1917
Frederick George Oakman died 21yrs old 18-4-1915
going on the battlefield tours from one of the shops here tomorrow as i feel i need the guides to explain more than i have researched myself
if you aint done it , then i would really advise it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voie_Sacrée
The ones I was most affected by most were Tyne Cot, the largest Commonwealth cemetery, the scale of the graves for the British there, really shook me when I was younger. Love the photo attached from my latest visit as a teacher. Another that had an effect on me was Langemark, which is a German cemetery and features a mass grave in the centre with 1000s of bodies as well as numerous graves with multiple occupants as the victors only gave the Germans a tiny section of land to bury their war dead. Always thought this was deeply unfair, they may have lost the war but those lads were dragged into the same situation just as ours were and deserved far more respect.
Its only France & Belgium currently but we are trialling the Gallipoli version at the moment to see if it is accurate enough to sell commercially.
The company are called Great War Digital I think but am away from the offoce today
Here, where we now live on the Ile d‘Oléron, there are several Commonwealth War Graves. Most of them contain graves of victims of the RMT Lancastria disaster (http://www.lancastria.org.uk). The CWG cemetery in Le Chateau d‘Oléron contains just 1 grave!
For thos interested in the battle of Verdun, this a good start: http://www.ww1battlefields.co.uk/others/verdun/
The most amazing part was finding the actual field where a great uncle was killed aged 19
The caves at Arras @DaveMehmet bang on the money I can’t belive just what they done there how this generation of men do what they did and maintain the strength and resolve to go through and up to the front line to face certain harm
So much more to do so much further to dig down through the family archives
And more for me and @SE7toSG3 to get our heads together on