I always thought it was more dangerous in a helicopter than a plane if the engine failed as a plane has a greater capacity to glide. I was told the opposite was true in that the blades will autorotate if the helicopter is upright. When learning to fly a helicopter, pilots are taught to land when the engine fails and apparently, it isn't that hard. But if the blades were not in a position to auto rotate, the helicopter will drop fast. I'm surprised there isn't a video of it, there are lots of people hanging around after a game and the chairman's helicopter is something that gains attention. I'm sure they will find out the cause but very sorry for all the victims. RIP.
I once 'won' a trip in a Helicopter to fly over Arundel castle and along the sea front near Littlehampton. Over the beach the pilot demonstrated that if the main rotor/engine failed a helicopter would be able to continue gliding and make a bumpy landing and not just drop. He cut the engine to show this! He made a point of saying that it only worked with sufficient forward motion otherwise it would just plummet. Unfortunately that is what seems to have happened with the Leicester Helicopter as it hadn't much or any forward momentum at the time.
Given it seems "only" a tragic accident (if that's the right phrasing) I don't think regulations will be changed much unless they manage to pinpoint a fault in the helicopters design.
I always thought it was more dangerous in a helicopter than a plane if the engine failed as a plane has a greater capacity to glide. I was told the opposite was true in that the blades will autorotate if the helicopter is upright. When learning to fly a helicopter, pilots are taught to land when the engine fails and apparently, it isn't that hard. But if the blades were not in a position to auto rotate, the helicopter will drop fast. I'm surprised there isn't a video of it, there are lots of people hanging around after a game and the chairman's helicopter is something that gains attention. I'm sure they will find out the cause but very sorry for all the victims. RIP.
I once 'won' a trip in a Helicopter to fly over Arundel castle and along the sea front near Littlehampton. Over the beach the pilot demonstrated that if the main rotor/engine failed a helicopter would be able to continue gliding and make a bumpy landing and not just drop. He cut the engine to show this! He made a point of saying that it only worked with sufficient forward motion otherwise it would just plummet. Unfortunately that is what seems to have happened with the Leicester Helicopter as it hadn't much or any forward momentum at the time.
That wasn't the issue I believe - it was the tail rotor that failed meaning the main rotor had the effect of spinning the helicopter uncontrollably due to not having the tail rotor to stabilise it.
Presumably, if you have enough height and speed when the tail rotor fails, you cut power to the main rotors to stop yourself spinning and then autorotate into a rough, but hopefully not fatal, landing.
Presumably, if you have enough height and speed when the tail rotor fails, you cut power to the main rotors to stop yourself spinning and then autorotate into a rough, but hopefully not fatal, landing.
I assume so - but the main rotor would need to be cut pretty quickly I would think.
Presumably, if you have enough height and speed when the tail rotor fails, you cut power to the main rotors to stop yourself spinning and then autorotate into a rough, but hopefully not fatal, landing.
I assume so - but the main rotor would need to be cut pretty quickly I would think.
Yes it must be as soon as possible. There are some comments about this on the BBC website. It relies to some extent on having forward momentum - but if the tail rotor fails then the main rotor has to be cut off within seconds to stop the rotation. With sufficient forward momentum the helicopter could glide to a bumpy landing. As it had just taken off vertically there was no forward momentum - so even if the main rotor could have been stopped a disaster was inevitable. Must have been horrendous on board knowing that it was going straight down.
I suppose it is the same principle as a girocopter except momentum is the rear propeller on that. A terrible few seconds, but thankfully only seconds. It is all very sad.
In an autorotation the rotors are disconnected from the engine/gearbox and the blade pitch reduced. There's quite a lot all going on at once and in a very short space of time, it's difficult even on a good day. If the engine or gearbox fail it has to be done swiftly before the dead engine stops the rotors or torque sends the body of the helicopter spinning or aerodynamic drag on the blades slows them down too much. Effectively, the pilot is putting the clutch in and freewheeling. Forward speed is vital in keeping the rotors turning and is also important in a tail rotor failure as the 'weather vane' effect of the airflow past the helicopter helps to keep it straight. It was horrible watching the inevitability of it all on the video clip. RIP
I can see a potential change to the rules. As had been said, the lack of forward momentum was partly to blame for the result.
They may view this type of takeoff as risky, and only allow it in emergencies. So it’s ok for air ambulances, police etc, but not people just trying to miss the traffic.
That may restrict commercial/ private flights to locations where there is a clear takeoff path.
Only question I have is how the Helicopter took off... Am more knowledgable about airplanes yet in the video it doesnt look right even when it first leaves the ground
It looks fine taking off. The pause about 6ft off the deck is to give the pilot time to check everything is OK with the engines etc. before committing to the flight. It's not an ideal situation to take off in. A football stadium is enclosed so the helicopter has to go straight up mainly on power rather than using more efficient translational lift generated by the rotor disc through forward speed. A helicopter needs airspeed to keep the rotors spinning and generating lift to make an autorotation landing. Unfortunately, the failure appears to have occurred at the worst possible moment, with no speed, and no height to trade for speed either.
In an autorotation the rotors are disconnected from the engine/gearbox and the blade pitch reduced. There's quite a lot all going on at once and in a very short space of time, it's difficult even on a good day. If the engine or gearbox fail it has to be done swiftly before the dead engine stops the rotors or torque sends the body of the helicopter spinning or aerodynamic drag on the blades slows them down too much. Effectively, the pilot is putting the clutch in and freewheeling. Forward speed is vital in keeping the rotors turning and is also important in a tail rotor failure as the 'weather vane' effect of the airflow past the helicopter helps to keep it straight. It was horrible watching the inevitability of it all on the video clip. RIP
Hi Missed it - you clearly know your stuff - as someone who flew in choppers daily for a few years, we often wondered why the fuel tanks were not better protected (a la post Concorde crash adaptations) and whether a super under carriage air bag system would be possible. We discounted the former on cost, and latter on weight, grounds. Have these ideas ever been given proper design consideration, do you know>
Cirrus have been using parachutes on their light aircraft for a number of years with some success but that chopper was too low for anything like this to have an effect.
In an autorotation the rotors are disconnected from the engine/gearbox and the blade pitch reduced. There's quite a lot all going on at once and in a very short space of time, it's difficult even on a good day. If the engine or gearbox fail it has to be done swiftly before the dead engine stops the rotors or torque sends the body of the helicopter spinning or aerodynamic drag on the blades slows them down too much. Effectively, the pilot is putting the clutch in and freewheeling. Forward speed is vital in keeping the rotors turning and is also important in a tail rotor failure as the 'weather vane' effect of the airflow past the helicopter helps to keep it straight. It was horrible watching the inevitability of it all on the video clip. RIP
Hi Missed it - you clearly know your stuff - as someone who flew in choppers daily for a few years, we often wondered why the fuel tanks were not better protected (a la post Concorde crash adaptations) and whether a super under carriage air bag system would be possible. We discounted the former on cost, and latter on weight, grounds. Have these ideas ever been given proper design consideration, do you know>
Aviation safety generally operates on tombstone economics. When the pile of bodies is high enough, money will be spent on preventing whatever killed them. All flying entails risk, it is impossible to eliminate totally. The mitigation of it is a cost/benefit analysis.
Weight and balance is definitely an issue with most helicopters so they are limited in the structural strengthening that can be done. I could only see a crash bag being effective in a very small window of low speed, very low altitude flight and therefore not worth doing.
Some light aircraft these days have a built in parachute system fitted which can be opened in the event of an aircraft failure, giving the people on board a survivable landing, although the aircraft ends up somewhat crunched. I think some helicopter manufacturers are testing systems like this currently, but it's probably a difficult thing to make safe and reliable with all those rotor blades clattering about overhead.
Watford fans unveiled a banner at Leicester yesterday saying: "Thank you for Vichai for allowing us all to dream. Rest in peace".
In response Vichai's son, the new man in charge, gave all Watford fans free food and drink at half time. A proper club owner.
Ours doesn't even give our youth players food and drink!
Nice to see this... Not just because of the gesture but because its a continuation of the Leicester attitude
i.e. With the owner dead, the club could easily have been passed to someone who doesnt care about them or Football in general which could create a slow decline
Honestly.... not really that surprising. When there was fire damage and the nature of the crash and all the testing and double checking to do, it's quite believable that it could take a long time.
If it was something as basic as a seized bearing, that must be down to a maintenance issue surely? Woulda thought moving parts like that would need to be greased and checked on a regular basis, more so as it's such a fundamental part that keeps the thing in the air.
If it was something as basic as a seized bearing, that must be down to a maintenance issue surely? Woulda thought moving parts like that would need to be greased and checked on a regular basis, more so as it's such a fundamental part that keeps the thing in the air.
"The wear on the rotor bearing was also found to have built up over a period of time and could not have been predicted, according to the inspectors.
Examination of the bearing was only required once it had been used for 400 hours, but the helicopter had only been flown for 331 hours when the crash occurred."
So you're right but apparently this was a bit of a fluke accident and not negligence or the fault of anyone (legally.)
was a lack of or shoddy maintenance to blame ? .. surely no such thing as an 'accident' if pilot error is discounted, there is a reason why the helicopter failed
Comments
They may view this type of takeoff as risky, and only allow it in emergencies. So it’s ok for air ambulances, police etc, but not people just trying to miss the traffic.
That may restrict commercial/ private flights to locations where there is a clear takeoff path.
Club chairman Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha and four others died when the aircraft came down after a match on 27 October.
The Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) said the helicopter started to turn right "contrary to the pilot's left pedal command".
It added the cause of the apparent loss of control is still being investigated.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-46208494
Weight and balance is definitely an issue with most helicopters so they are limited in the structural strengthening that can be done. I could only see a crash bag being effective in a very small window of low speed, very low altitude flight and therefore not worth doing.
Some light aircraft these days have a built in parachute system fitted which can be opened in the event of an aircraft failure, giving the people on board a survivable landing, although the aircraft ends up somewhat crunched. I think some helicopter manufacturers are testing systems like this currently, but it's probably a difficult thing to make safe and reliable with all those rotor blades clattering about overhead.
In response Vichai's son, the new man in charge, gave all Watford fans free food and drink at half time. A proper club owner.
Ours doesn't even give our youth players food and drink!
i.e. With the owner dead, the club could easily have been passed to someone who doesnt care about them or Football in general which could create a slow decline
Thankfully this doesnt look like it'll happen
Inspectors said four of the passengers survived the impact of the crash, but a fire that was caused by a "significant" fuel leak, proved fatal.
That's fucking terrifying.
Examination of the bearing was only required once it had been used for 400 hours, but the helicopter had only been flown for 331 hours when the crash occurred."
So you're right but apparently this was a bit of a fluke accident and not negligence or the fault of anyone (legally.)
The story has got even sadder knowing the pilot did nothing wrong.